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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 8 Feb 1983

Vol. 339 No. 9

Foyle Fisheries (Amendment) Bill, 1981: Committee and Final Stages.

Section 1 agreed to.
SECTION 2.

Acting Chairman

Amendments Nos. 1, 2 and 3 will be taken together by agreement.

I am not prepared to accept these amendments. The main reason is that the sums mentioned concern the maximum penalties which in the normal course of events need not be applied. In other words, the court in question has discretion to apply a level of penalty which need not be anywhere near the maximum. There is no need for the amendments.

Section 2 agreed to.
Section 3 agreed to.
SECTION 4.

I assume amendments Nos. 4 and 5 are being taken together.

Acting Chairman

Yes.

I am not prepared to accept these amendments. The maximum penalties included in the Bill in respect of summary convictions in sections 35, 40A, 41, 43, 51A, 67 and 56 (4) are the same as those prescribed in the Fisheries Act, 1980 for summary convictions against comparable sections of the Fisheries Consolidation Act. We are talking about comparable levels and the amendments proposed would not bring this about. It is a question of bringing the levels into line with existing levels in the Fisheries Consolidation Act.

Section 4 agreed to.
NEW SECTION.

I move amendment No. 6:

In page 3, before section 5, to insert the following section:—

5.—The Principal Act is hereby amended by the substitution for section 73 of the following section:

`73.—Proceedings in the District Court for an offence under this Act may be brought only by the Director of Public Prosecutions or the Commission or an officer of the Commission or a member of the Garda Síochána and not by any other person.'

The reason for putting down this amendment is that I have been advised by the Attorney General that it is necessary to include in the Bill a provision to make it clear that section 73 does not preclude the bringing of prosecutions in the District Court by the general prosecuting authority, that is the Director of Public Prosecutions. The amendment proposed provides that proceedings in the District Court for an offence under the Foyle Fisheries Act, 1952 may be brought only by the DPP or the commission or an officer of the commission or a member of the Garda Síochána and not by any other person.

The reason for this amendment is that, as the section stood, it would have been necessary for the DPP to seek the permission of the commission, in other words he came under the "any other person" category. He is now specifically included and named as a person who can initiate a prosecution just as can the Garda Síochána, the commissioners or officers acting on their behalf. In order to put this section beyond nay or yea it was decided to include this.

Amendment agreed to.
NEW SECTION.

I move amendment No. 7:

In page 3, before section 5, to insert the following section:—

6.—The Third Schedule to the Principal Act (as amended by the Act of 1961) is hereby amended by the substitution for Article 2(a) of the following Article:

`(a) to take legal proceedings (other than criminal proceedings on indictment) for the enforcement of any provision of this Act or of any regulations made under this Act, or, in the Foyle area, of any law with respect to fisheries;'.

The Attorney General has advised that it is necessary to amend Article 2(a) of the Third Schedule so as to make it clear that the commission are not empowered pursuant to that Article to take criminal proceedings on indictment. Amendment No. 7 therefore excludes the commission from taking criminal proceedings on indictment in respect of fishery offences in the Foyle area.

Amendment agreed to.
Section 5 agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass".

As it is more than a year since the Second Stage of this Bill, it is appropriate that we should have a short discussion on it. I take this opportunity, as a former Minister for Fisheries, to compliment the Foyle Fisheries Commission, the staff and all concerned on the magnificent management of the Foyle fisheries since the establishment of the commission. As Minister I was fortunate in having the opportunity to have a very useful exchange of views with the Northern Minister responsible for fisheries and to visit the Foyle. I was impressed with the commitment and dedication, not only of the members of the commission whom I had the privilege and honour to meet, but also of the staff who have done such tremendous work in the protection of this valuable national fishery and who have made such a great effort in enforcing fisheries laws in what is at times a very difficult and dangerous situation.

We are all deeply concerned about the decline in salmon fisheries and it was my wish when Minister that every effort should be made during my term to ensure the necessary strengthening of legislation which would enable conservation staff in the Foyle and other fishery areas to deal with illegal activities which were damaging stocks and putting salmon fisheries in jeopardy. My sole interest and commitment was to ensure as far as possible that every effort would be made and every opportunity taken to stamp out illegal activities, recognising at all times the limitations of staff, personnel and equipment of the boards and of the Foyle Fisheries Commission which made it more difficult for them to do the job. One of the major ways in which we can offer assistance is by introducing legislation such as this and giving the commission and the boards the power under the law to deal out very heavy penalties where illegal activities are taking place. For that reason we do not oppose this Bill and we support the general principle that our legislation should be strengthened. We would advocate the introduction of further legislation if that were necessary to deal with these illegal activities.

It is important to consider the position in relation to the Foyle and the whole area of salmon conservation. As Minister I was totally committed to the stamping out of illegal activities. We also endeavoured to control the issue of driftnet licences. There has been recent controversy about some of the measures taken but they were taken in the interests of conservation and to ensure that permission would be given to those who were entitled through tradition or because they earned their livelihood from fishing. I appeal to the fisheries boards, the commission and anyone who has responsibility in this area to make sure that the orders which have been made are fully complied with and that the conditions and criteria laid down by Ministers are fully adhered to in the issue of licences.

The orders made by me before I left office reduce overall the number of licences which can be issued within our jurisdiction. This is very important because in recent times certain individuals who should know better have tried to misrepresent the position. Those in the Department and previous Ministers, including the present Ceann Comhairle, will be aware that we were always conscious that orders should reduce and limit the number of licences issued and should as far as possible spread those licences in a more favourable way. I refute absolutely any suggestion that before I left office I issued licences indiscriminately without recognising the serious conservation problem in regard to salmon fishing. This is totally untrue and inaccurate and misrepresents the position. The orders made by me and previous Ministers were to enable boards to issue licences. The actual issue is not made by the Minister. Licences are issued by the various boards who have authority from the Minister to do so. I am referring to this because of the recent controversy about the issuing of licences and I am anxious to put it on record that the Minister does not issue licences—it is the responsibility of the various boards. Some members of those boards have been very vocal about this matter recently but they would be well advised to examine their own responsibilities.

The Deputy will appreciate that he is confined to dealing with the terms of the Bill.

The terms of the Bill are closely related to the conservation of fish stocks.

The Foyle is very far away from Kerry.

I accept that I would be disorderly if I attempted to discuss the situation in Kerry but I must remind the House that I inherited the situation there. In fact, the Ceann Comhairle, when he was Minister for Fisheries, according to yesterday's issue of the Irish Times proposed to issue the same number of licences that I agreed should be issued. There is no difference between the position I adopted and that adopted by my predecessor.

There is not anything in the Bill about the Ceann Comhairle.

When the Ceann Comhairle was Minister for Fisheries he indicated that he would issue the same number of licences in that area as the board are now entitled to issue. It is up to the board to issue them, if they wish.

I must remind the Deputy that the Bill deals solely with the amendment of penalties but the Deputy is now dealing with matters that are foreign to the terms of the Bill. He should confine his remarks to the terms of the Bill.

I will do so, but the points I have made are relevant. The legislation seeks to increase the penalties in a move to stamp out illegal activities which are damaging our fish stock. The preservation and conservation of our fish stock are related to this legislation. I hope the legislation will strengthen the hand of those engaged in stamping out illegal activities which are damaging our stock. The Foyle is a valuable national resource and it is important that every effort be made to preserve the fish stocks there. I should like to congratulate those who have been endeavouring under difficult circumstances to enforce existing legislation in that area.

I should like to congratulate the Minister on his appointment to this important post. We all appreciate that the Foyle Commission is a unique body which was set up in 1952. Since then cross-border co-operation has existed in regard to the preservation of the stock of that river and there has been cross-border co-operation to deal with the affairs of Lough Foyle which separates the Twenty-six Counties from the Six Counties. The Foyle was always considered to be a good salmon river and at the time the board was established there was an extensive stock there. Since then stock has diminished and it is necessary to make the fines for illegal fishing there equal to those in operation on the other side of the river. While it is important to increase the fines the question of conservation deserves greater consideration. If we are serious about conservation we must ensure that those who are trying to stamp out illegal fishing have the necessary back-up services. I have heard many complaints that the commission do not have the proper equipment or boats to deal with poachers. We do not condone poaching or illegal fishing because those engaged in that activity are destroying fish stocks. They are depriving the traditional fishermen, who have derived a livelihood from that river for generations, of a reasonable income from salmon fishing. The law must be upheld and we must ensure that the commission are backed up by the Garda and the Naval Service.

The Minister should consult with the commission about this matter. The Foyle Commission when it was established had three aims.

Members are confined, on Fifth Stage, to referring to the terms of the Bill, the updating of penalties.

I appreciate that but it is important that those who are familiar with the river should be given the opportunity to indicate to the Minister the difficulties being experienced by those who are trying to conserve the fish stocks.

I dislike having to interrupt the Deputy but he is not in order. The Deputy would have been in order in referring to these matters on Second Stage but on Fifth Stage Deputies are confined to the terms of the Bill.

I hope the Minister will ensure the points I raised about the necessity for back-up services will be examined.

I should like to thank Deputies Daly and Conaghan for their contributions and their good wishes to me. I endorse the sentiments expressed by them about illegal fishing and the necessity to conserve stocks.

I should like to assure Deputies that every effort will be made to conserve stocks as far as possible. In regard to the statement that the commission do not have adequate equipment to meet the needs of the day I should like to tell the House that we are in the process of purchasing a patrol boat for protection purposes. We hope this will add to the efficiency of the commission in dealing with this scourge of illegal fishing which is all too familiar to all of us.

I should like to take this opportunity to thank the Garda for the co-operation they have given us in recent years which has been most helpful in tracking down and apprehending people engaged in poaching and illegal fishing. I wrote to the Minister for Justice recently expressing my gratitude to him. I should like to refer briefly to Deputy Daly's tour of the Ring of Kerry.

I tried to keep Deputy Daly in Donegal, and on the Foyle and on the Bill.

I said nothing about the order. I do not think it was a question of the order being signed. It was the timing of it which caused some problems, more so than the actual substantive content.

The Minister and Deputy Daly will have an opportunity to work this out when it is in order.

A Cheann Comhairle, our problem is that you are much more aware of the fisheries problems than either of us. For that reason I will not strain your patience any longer.

Question put and agreed to.
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