asked the Taoiseach if he will outline the action he has taken to fulfil his election promise to seek a complete and radical rethink of British policy towards Northern Ireland.
2.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - British Policy on Northern Ireland.
1.
asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his meeting on 5 May with the British Secretary of State for Northern Ireland.
3.
asked the Taoiseach if the agreement he made with the British Prime Minister on 6 November 1981 to meet twice a year still stands.
4.
asked the Taoiseach if he discussed the future of the Northern Ireland Assembly with the British Secretary of State for Northern Ireland at his meeting on 5 May.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 4, inclusive, together. British-Irish relations suffered last year because of differences of view between our predecessors in office and the British Government. The Government, on taking office, considered it to be in the interest of both countries and particularly in the interest of peace and reconciliation in this country, that relations should be restored to the state they were in when we were previously in office. To this end, a number of meetings have taken place at ministerial level. I met the British Prime Minister in Brussels on 22 March and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland in Dublin on 5 May. The Minister for Foreign Affairs has met the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on two occasions and has also met the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs. As Deputies will be aware, it is not customary to disclose details of confidential discussions of this nature. I can say, however, that during these meetings and on all other appropriate occasions, our views on all aspects of developments in and relating to Northern Ireland were made known. I can also say that I am satisfied that, despite any individual unhelpful incident, much progress has been made towards restoring the former relationship.
The Government have also initiated discussions among party leaders which have led to the establishment of the Forum within which there are to be consultations on the manner in which lasting peace and stability can be achieved in a new Ireland through the democratic process. It is the intention that the Forum will report before the end of the year.
I envisage that, building on the progress we have and will continue to make in restoring relations between the two sovereign Governments and on the work of the Forum, we can and shall, at the opportune time, follow up with the British Government the agreement we reached when I met with the British Prime Minister in November 1981. As the Deputy will recall, both sides then indicated that they were ready to join in promoting arrangements to diminish the divisions between the two sections of the community in Northern Ireland and to reconcile the two major traditions that exist in the two parts of Ireland.
However, the Deputy is incorrect in suggesting that an agreement was made on 6 November 1981 to meet twice a year. There was no decision then to vary the agreement in the report of one of the Joint Study Groups that meetings at Heads of Government level would take place once or twice in the year in accordance with which a further meeting was then proposed for spring 1982, although this did not, in fact, take place for reasons that the Deputy is in a better position to assess than I am.
The questions which I have put down seeking specific information on a number of points, I regret that the Taoiseach has not dealt with. First, may I ask if he recalls during the course of the general election that he said that a complete and radical rethinking of British policy is now needed and needed quickly if the situation is to be retrieved from a drift towards chaos? I recall him saying that it must be the purpose and the prime objective of the Government elected to office on 14 December next to secure from the British Government a recognition of the need for such a radical revision of its policy while there is yet time to save the situation.
Will the Taoiseach tell me in a few short words what precisely he has done since taking office to implement that election promise?
I have outlined some of the action taken by the Government in a responsible, carefully judged approach towards the resolution of the problem. In contrast with the position last year, we are now moving in the right direction and useful progress has been made in the course of generally positive and constructive discussions. The groundwork has been laid. Of course, it became increasingly clear from the time that the Government took office that a British general election was in prospect and it would have been naive to expect significant developments in British policy on this side of the election, which has now been announced.
With the establishment of the Forum and when the British election is over, the question of Northern Ireland can be pursued with the British Government in a new context, with a view to securing progress, which is urgently necessary.
The Taoiseach will recall that the words he used were "securing from the British Government a complete and radical rethinking of British policy". Can he not agree with me that such a radical rethinking of British policy in regard to Northern Ireland has not taken place and to that extent is he prepared to agree that that particular election promise which he gave is just another instance of a broken promise by him arising out of the last general election campaign?
I do agree about the time. The fact that the British election was impending has clearly made it impractical to expect that the British Government would review their position in regard to Northern Ireland in the closing months of their period in office. Our efforts have been directed towards preparing the ground for a new and better relationship with the British Government which would make it possible for us to build an all-sided hope, as a result of the Forum, to enter into discussions with them in due course, which I hope will lead to a revision of their policy, the need for which I am as convinced of as when I made that statement.
The Taoiseach must agree with me that when he made this promise during the course of the election campaign last year, he was as well aware then of the position with regard to the British general election as he is now. I hope he would agree with me that it is a little naive to expect the House to accept that he gave that promise during the general election without regard to the position in respect of the British general election. However, I would like to move on to a Supplementary Question arising out of my Question No. 2. Will the Taoiseach indicate to us, even in broad terms, what specifically he put to the British Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on 5 May? I accept that the discussions are confidential, but I am entitled to ask the Taoiseach — and I do not think that it would be any breach of confidentiality on his part — to tell me what were the specific points in regard to the British Government policy in Northern Ireland which he put to the Secretary of State on 5 May?
It would, in fact, be contrary to practice because the question of the points under discussion is confidential. It would also not be in the interests of achieving the objectives which all have in mind if I were to indicate the subject under discussion at a particular meeting. That position is one which the previous Government also upheld and all Governments have upheld and must uphold who are concerned to achieve actual progress, as distinct from making use of a headline.
The Taoiseach will recall that he is on public record as saying that the present Northern Ireland Assembly has fatal flaws in its Constitution and that his view in that regard is supported by the Minister for Foreign Affairs who said that it does not represent a satisfactory political movement. In view of these two public statements by himself and the Minister for Foreign Affairs, could he tell the House whether, on the occasion of meeting the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland he made those points to him, or did he raise at that meeting at all the question of the Assembly of Northern Ireland and its defects and did he consider putting the point of view to him that it should be wound up as quickly as possible?
I am not prepared to be drawn on the question of what matters were discussed, for the reasons I have given and the Deputy knows that I will not be drawn. I do not propose to comment further on that.
With regard to the Assembly, the defects are not as much in the Assembly itself as in the failure to make provision in connection with the Assembly that would have made possible the emergence, on the one hand, of a power-sharing administration and, on the other hand, of recognition of the identity of the minority community in Northern Ireland. There are broader issues at stake, as the Deputy is well aware.
I must take it from what the Taoiseach is saying that again he did not follow up, in discussion with the Northern Secretary of State, the policy which he and his Minister for Foreign Affairs have outlined in regard to the Northern Ireland Assembly?
Finally, may I ask the Taoiseach to give us a clear and frank statement about the position in regard to a meeting between himself and the British Prime Minister. I ask him to recall that in November 1981 it was apparently agreed between himself and the British Prime Minister that meetings would take place at regular intervals. My impression at the time was that it would be twice a year, but I am prepared to accept that at least once a year and possibly twice a year was what was agreed. Can he tell us now what is the position in regard to these meetings? Was a meeting sought either directly or indirectly, was the possibility of a meeting sounded out even at diplomatic level, or are we to take it that the British Government's position is that these matters are to be dictated entirely in the interests of British politics, which is indeed the historic position in so far as most British Governments are concerned?
As the Deputy knows, the position is that the arrangement which I had entered into — which indeed involved a meeting foreshadowed for spring of 1982 — broke down because of the change of Government and the handling of events by the Deputy and his Government. Our job is to restore the relationship and to recreate the situation in which meetings will take place of the kind the Deputy has referred to once or twice a year. We are working towards that. It takes some time to undo the damage done without adequate thought in 1982. We have had to have regard also to the fact that the British election has been impending during this period. No meeting has been sought, no soundings made. It was our decision that, given the position we inherited, we should proceed by developing contacts along the lines we have and through informal meetings until after the British election, until the situation has developed where there would then be a Government in both these countries with a term of office of four years jointly ahead of them, two Governments which over that period of time could tackle this problem consistently, coherently and taking a long-term view.
Would the Taoiseach be prepared to accept from me the view that the Irish public are getting a bit fed up with his apparent answer to everything in this country that is wrong, which is to blame it on his predecessors? Would he accept from me a suggestion that the people would be anxious to hear from him, on the odd occasion at least, some constructive suggestion as to what he is going to do himself as distinct from blaming his predecessors in office for everything except perhaps the bad weather we are having at present? Would he then agree with me that, in regard to his election promise to secure from the British Government a redical re-think of policy in regard to Northern Ireland, his specific statements of dissatisfaction with the Northern Ireland Assembly, his apparent failure to secure a meeting with the British Prime Minister since he came into office, despite his implicit undertaking that he would do so, that in all these areas practically everything he has said about his policy in regard to Northern Ireland is a total failure and he has kept none of his promises in regard to them?
Well, I reject all that propaganda the Deputy is producing as nonsense. It is true that the people are fed up with our predecessors in office. Certainly the damage done to Anglo-Irish relations during 1982 is a matter of deep regret to people right across the political divide regardless of party. That damage has to be undone. It is being undone and, from 9 June next, there will be in office in Britain, a Government which I hope will have a majority, as we have, with a term of office of five years ahead of them, and we will have a term of office of four-and-a-half years ahead of us. During that period we will jointly tackle these problems with a view to achieving real progress which has not hitherto been achieved over the years for a variety of reasons, by no means all the fault of Irish Governments of one or other complexion. But we now have the chance, and will have the chance to make progress and achieve a radical change in the position over that period of four-and-a-half years when the two Governments will be in office together. Our planning is directed towards that. Our plans have included the establishment of the Forum. We believe that, with the co-operation of the Opposition, out of that will emerge constructive elements which may be useful in the development of both the Anglo-Irish relationship, and working towards a resolution of the Northern Ireland problem during the four years that will follow the conclusion of the work of the Forum.
I just want to ask one question of the Taoiseach——
I am sorry, Deputy. I have given 15 minutes to the leader of your party, who put down the questions.
It is only because——
No, I must move on to the next question.
Just one matter I should like to ask the Taoiseach——
I am sorry. Question No. 5 to the Minister for Trade, Commerce and Tourism.