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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 20 Nov 1984

Vol. 354 No. 1

Private Members' Business. - Electricity Charges: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Deputy Flynn on Tuesday, 13 November 1984:
"That Dáil Éireann condemns the Government's failure to control the price of electricity and, in view of the serious hardship the high cost of electricity is causing countless families and the loss of jobs in industry resulting from lack of competitiveness, calls upon the Government to withdraw its approval for the recent price increase pending the publication and a full debate on the report of the enquiry into the high cost of electricity in Ireland."
Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:
To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:
"notes that the Tánaiste and Minister for Energy has recently received for examination the report of the Inquiry into Electricity Prices, notes that the costs behind electricity supply result from decisions taken over many decades with the approval of successive Governments, notes that the finances of the ESB must be assured to maintain an appropriate level of service to all consumers, endorses the view of the Minister for Energy that it is likely that electricity prices can only be reduced through long term structural measures which allow for the regional, employment, and social, as well as economic aspects of electricity supply, and approves the decision of the Government to allow the recent increase in electricity charges, as recommended by the National Prices Commission, which keeps the increase in electricity prices below the already reduced level of general inflation."
—(Minister for the Environment).

I was dealing last week with the cost of electricity to industry and the detrimental effect of any further increase. There is a direct relationship between the unemployment figure of 200,000 and this price level because by their policies the Government have depressed the economy and the demand for electricity has been reduced. It does not require much imagination to realise how much electricity Fords and Dunlops were using before they closed down. The demand will be further reduced by the closure of Cork dockyard on 30 November, despite the many appeals to the Government to keep it open as a repairing and shipbuilding yard.

The ESB now find they have overcapacity in electricity generation as well as a reduction in income. The remaining consumers in industry, agriculture and the private sector are being asked to bear the burden of an increase of 6.83 per cent from January. There is a parallel here with the policy of the Government which has brought about diminishing returns in customs and excise duties. Government policies of financial rectitude, described by so many blasé phrases, are affecting every aspect of life. They realised what was happening in regard to diminishing returns and there was something of an about face recently. The people who are still at work have to support those who are out of work and I place the blame on incorrect Government policies which have pushed the economy downwards.

It is only reasonable to expect the ESB to maintain employment, although some people may claim that there is over-employment in the ESB. I leave that to somebody else to judge. They must meet their running costs and they are expected to do so out of diminishing returns because of lack of economic development and the closure of factories. The same people who are out of work are expected by the Government to bear a further increase of 6.83 per cent on electricity bills this winter.

There is no doubt that ESB consumers have contributed enormously to the huge profits made by Bord na Móna and An Bord Gáis, but these same consumers are being asked to pay this new increase. Our natural resources should be used for the benefit of the people of the nation. They should be used for the protection of jobs and the creation of further jobs. Unfavourable price calculations should not be used by the Government to close down Bord na Móna peat bogs. Should these price calculations be used to bolster the balance of payments of other countries from whom we buy oil and coal? Where is the sense in allowing this to happen? The Government disregard our natural resources or underutilise them and our whole economic development has been put at risk by their mismanagement. The increase in electricity charges highlights the situation that has been allowed to develop.

We need a Government capable of pursuing policies whereby all sectors of the economy will benefit from a sustained increase in manufacturing output. This would include small scale subcontractors, service firms, transport firms, electricity and telecommunications facilities, the postal service and banks.

The sustaining of manufacturing growth which would steadily reduce unemployment would require an annual investment in fixed assets and a working capital of at least £1,000 million per annum. These funds must come from a combination of retained earnings, new equity finance, loans and grant capital. The prospects for investment depend essentially on the possibility of earning an adequate return on capital. This would require a favourable trading climate at home and abroad, low inflation at home combined with the provision of services which would be competitive in price and quality. Surely electricity must be foremost in maintaining competitiveness. It also needs conditions which will encourage individuals and organisations who have funds to invest — and they are there— to channel these funds into productive enterprises given the proper encouragement and incentives. I have no hesitation in repeating that these economic policies — and after yesterday we can add a few more — are to the detriment of this nation.

I am glad to have an opportunity to address the House on this motion and to support the amendment moved by my colleague, Deputy Kavanagh, in my absence in Brussels last week. In the course of my contribution I will attempt to throw some light on certain misconceptions in the motion originally put to the House. The Government and the ESB have for some time now been subjected to criticism in regard to electricity prices. Much of what I have heard and read of this criticism has been of the popular kind and makes no attempt to support its case with hard facts.

While I do not suggest for a moment that criticism on this score is necessarily a bad thing in itself — in fact, a certain amount of criticism could have a beneficial effect on the level and quality of performance by anybody in the trading sector or the semi-State sector — I urge the Opposition to accept that, if this criticism is to be effective and if it is to have the desired effect, it should be properly informed. I ask the House, and particularly the movers of this motion, to face up to the facts of the situation in regard to electricity prices. As in the case of any other commodity or service, the basic costs of producing electricity are subject to inflationary trends. For the ESB these costs are fuel, labour and capital costs, none of which has escaped the general effects of inflation.

Control of electricity prices is, if anything, more rigorous than that which applies to any other industry. By virtue of the Prices (Amendment) Act, 1972, the price increase applications for the ESB are submitted to the National Prices Commission. When a recommendation has been made on the application by the NPC and has been approved by the Minister for Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism the matter is then put to the Government for decision. The most recent price increase of 6.83 per cent allowed by the Government is neither more nor less than that which had been recommended by the National Prices Commission.

In fact, the application made by the ESB had been for a higher percentage increase to apply from 1 April of this year, whereas the increase allowed will not come into effect until the November-December billing period. The net effect of this later application of the increase is that some £24 million less will be recovered in additional revenue in the current financial year than would have been the case if the same increase had been applied from 1 April 1984. I am convinced that the increase allowed is the absolute minimum which will enable the ESB to hold down their accumulating deficits. The board's cumulative deficit at end of March 1984 was over £37 million and, even allowing for the recent price increase, this deficit is projected by the ESB to increase to £57 million by the end of March 1985.

The ESB are a service utility and as such they are constantly in the public gaze. Their activities are probably reported on more fully than any other commercial institution in this country. They provide a consistent flow of statistical information to the public about their activities in their annual reports and, therefore, there is little excuse for inappropriate or ill-informed criticism. I believe that it is essential to deal fairly with the ESB in regard to their prices and this is the approach which the Government took when they commissioned the inquiry into electricity prices.

The Electricity Supply Board are one of the largest undertakings in this country, and because they serve well over 1,000,000 houses and premises, they support most of the community's essential business, industrial, commercial and residential activities. For example, the ESB now provide electricity directly to the transport sector since the DART system was commissioned and this is one example of continuous progress in extending the applications of electricity.

There is no dispute as to the essential nature of the electricity service. If it is to be discussed, then it is important to examine the functions of our electricity supply authority in the context within which they have been called by the community as a whole to provide a service. Such a discussion, if it is to be of any value to the consumer in moving towards a more effective and less costly service, will have to take place within a framework of appreciation for the technical, economic and social constraints which the ESB face in managing the enormous resources entrusted to the board by the community.

In fact, the board and employees of the ESB hold a position of trust granted by the entire community. Ownership of the electricity service is entirely in public hands so we, the consumers, are the masters of our own fate. There is no third party to whom we can turn to shoulder blame for any of our present difficulties. Therefore, I hope it will be possible to discuss the issues raised in a logical fashion, despite the emotions which are created frequently in discussions of this subject.

Electricity sales grew by 4.5 per cent in the last ESB financial year, that is, in the period 1 April 1983 to 31 March 1984. This represents a remarkable recovery from the doldrums of recent previous years, and it occurred primarily in the industrial and commercial sectors. In fact, industry used almost 6 per cent more electricity than in the previous year. Apart from the revenue which the ESB earned from these sales, which were achieved despite a reduction in overall staff levels of over 400, the implications of a resumption in growth are very significant for the electricity industry. Continued growth of this nature will inevitably lead to a more economic use of existing plant, particularly if growth does not concentrate in the peak demand sectors. A more economic use of existing plant, lowering production costs, will lead to lower prices for electricity in the medium term.

A second fundamental point to bear in mind about the growth rate in electricity consumption is that the capacity to meet demand must be planned for, evaluated, selected, designed, constructed and commissioned into operation before the demand occurs. This procedure must anticipate the demand by from five to ten years, depending on the kind of plant involved, site availability, etc. When the demand has been changing about, as it has been for the last five years, the original plans require modification, and costs per unit produced are inevitably higher than they would have been in the absence of recession and oil price rises. I shall refer later to some important aspects of these external influences.

The difficulties experienced by the ESB in recent years must of course be examined carefully for the lessons which must be drawn about future actions. It is essential to do this against a background of some matters of fact. There is a tendency in some quarters to criticise the ESB as if they were somehow deficient in areas in which the critics could solve the board's problems. In fact, several hundred ESB employees have been involved in overseas work in 14 countries during the past year, and this must weigh heavily as evidence of the employees' ability and the board's determination to earn revenues in the international constructing area — itself the victim of severe recession. The importance of this work in broadening the experience of Irish personnel and as a possible introduction for other Irish services, in addition to its revenue earnings, must be valued appropriately. The propects for competently emerging from present difficulties must be greatly enhanced by the skills and new expertise available to the board as a result of this work.

In case this reference to overseas work draws any foolish comment that the ESB should confine their activities solely to the problems of their Irish consumers, I would draw your attention to the fact that nearly 26,000 new houses were connected to the ESB system last year. Few Irish undertakings have operations which are required to maintain services to existing consumers while continuously investing in the expansion of their distribution system on this scale. Last year ESB investment in transmission and distribution to bring power to people where they want it was over £50 million, while current expenditure on capital, operation and maintenance on the distribution system was over £90 million. The view that investment capital is not needed because surplus capacity is available for some years hence is a misleading one.

The international circumstances within which the ESB operate must also be carefully evaluated. Although the ESB are responsible for electricity sales within Ireland, their operations are vulnerable to international prices to an extent that is not always appreciated. The ESB spent approximately £90 million on oil imports last year. This was after use of peat, hydro, and the increased allocation of natural gas. The price of oil is widely reported in the media as falling and people's expectations recently have been that prices based on oil must fall. But because the dollar has strengthened so much against the European currencies, and against our punt, the price of fuel oil in Irish punts rose by nearly 40 per cent since January of last year. This may be partly due to a temporary increased demand for fuel oil in western Europe, but nonetheless the fuel must be bought and paid for at market rates. There is no magic formula for avoiding cost increases of this nature and when they occur the consumer must ultimately pay an increased price if the financial stability of the ESB is to be maintained. In some quarters it may be represented that such cost increases may be matched by increased borrowings. I do not think there are many Deputies who would advocate further borrowing to pay our current expenditure such as our fuel bills.

The long-term financial viability of the ESB is of primary importance to this country. To deny to them the ability to recover through the price mechanism cost increases which are outside their control would obviously make what is already a difficult situation even worse. One effect would be to build up a cumulative deficit which would render it impossible for the board to borrow for their capital purposes. In the final analysis it would be the Exchequer and, in effect, the taxpayers who would be called upon to bear the cost of putting the ESB back on the rails. While the Government are concerned about electricity prices, they have a responsibility to all sections of the community and must look to the long-term effects of their action — they are not in the business of gaining short-term popularity such as might accrue from the course of action proposed in the motion.

The continued development of our electricity system must be planned and carried out in anticipation of the demand for electricity supply up to ten years hence. We are all aware of the increase in electricity consumption which accompanies improvements in our standards of living. Although much machinery has become more energy efficient in the last few years, new applications are found for electricity all the time. Our growing population will itself increase our demand for electricity as people are housed and use public and commercial services.

Against this background of rising demand we face a number of problems which increase the future costs of providing electricity. Electricity supply companies all over the world have to face growing opposition to the large scale of their operations and to the environmental consequences of building and operating power stations and transmission and distribution lines. Alternative solutions to the problems created can be found, but only at a cost which must be paid by the electricity consumer. The balance between the need for cleaner air, proper waste disposal, properly landscaped facilities, underground cables and the resulting extra costs of electricity production must be struck so that it does not prevent the economic growth we are committed to creating for all our people.

We must also be careful to avoid attributing to electricity supply problems which are largely caused by other fuel uses, such as in transport, or through the widespread use of solid fuels in urban areas. At the moment the European Community is considering legislation regarding emissions from power plants. We as a Government support the view that other countries should strive to enjoy the air quality which is still largely the case in Ireland. We are concerned to ensure that efforts to curtail the growing menace of air pollution in Europe are concentrated on those areas suffering from heavy industrial, transport and power station emissions. We are concerned to avoid a situation whereby expensive remedies for serious problems in other countries are enforced on us in Ireland in a manner which makes no significant contribution to the air quality problems which, indeed, must be resolved. The increases in electricity prices which could arise from implementation of stringent measures which are not necessary in Ireland would be very damaging to our economy.

Deputies are rightly concerned about the cost of electricity — a service we have come to regard as an essential feature of modern life. In striving to ensure that everything which ought to be done to lower the cost of electricity is being done, we must recognise the real difficulties we face. Our electricity system is the only major system in Europe which is deprived of interconnection with its neighbours, apart from the Northern Ireland Electricity Service. This handicap arises because our interconnection link with the North has been severed for many years now on the Northern side. We do not have the cost advantages of very large scale stations which are typical of European countries and we do not have very high consumption level per consumer.

The second amendment put down by Deputies Mac Giolla and De Rossa makes three suggestions for Government action which it is claimed would eliminate the need for the recent 6.83 per cent rise in prices. There are two very serious misconceptions behind this amendment and it is important to tease out what they are and to demonstrate why they make this proposition unacceptable. All Deputies will know that it is very simple to suggest price reductions. If these are not accompanied by cost reductions — as such suggestions seldom are — they become a wish list. We have a sufficient list of problems caused by not recognising the true costs of our actions, and it would be foolish in the extreme to add to them.

The first misconception which lies behind this amendment is the belief that a large and complex organisation like the ESB can address their very real problems by tinkering with the commercial conditions in which the organisation operate. This has been tried in the past and has produced unsatisfactory results. It is futile to look at one or two aspects of the ESB and conclude that by adjusting those aspects everything can be patched together for another while. This "make it up as you go along" approach, which sacrifices the future to apparently immediate but actually deceptive satisfaction of the general desire for lower prices, will not do.

The community deserve something better and the Government have taken action to put the concerted planning of the ESB on a medium to long term basis. First, the Government have instituted the inquiry into electricity prices to which the Minister for the Environment referred during last week's debate on this motion. I have announced already that I have received the report of the inquiry and that it is being examined at present. It will be submitted to Government for consideration at an early date and it will then be published so that all interested parties will have an opportunity to study its findings. The Government also required of the ESB, as of all their major semi-State bodies, a corporate plan for the next five years. The National Planning Board published a detailed analysis of the performance and problems of commercial State-sponsored bodies, including the ESB, and the Government have produced the national plan. This work is the essential work of analysis and discussion which is absolutely required as a basis for real improvement in this area. For example, the planning board have provided an analysis to show how better performance of the State-sponsored commercial bodies in terms of benefits obtained for the money they have borrowed must be measured.

In ensuring that funds borrowed are matched by corresponding productive assets, and by the efficient use of assets once they have been created, market forces cannot always be relied on to generate better performance, and proxies must be developed. The right pricing policy advocated by that analysis is targeted at bringing their selling prices into line with the prices in other European countries. But current subsidies should not be used to achieve this parity of prices.

The first ground therefore on which I urge the House to reject this amendment is that it is a short-sighted, live for today, unplanned proposition which is made unnecessary by the constructive actions the Government are taking to address the fundamental issues over the long haul. But, even if we give further consideration to the bits and pieces approach, we find it defective in the extreme. The levy in lieu of rates is a removal of an advantage originally granted to the ESB vis-à-vis other commercial spheres of activity. The level of rates which it is appropriate for the ESB to pay is a matter for expert arbitration. But the principle of taxation involved is clear. There is an onus on anyone who proposes lifting taxation to say which services he proposes to suspend, since he will not provide the funds to meet their costs.

We might all have our views on which form of revenue collection we would most like to see diminished or abolished. But to single out one productive function such as electricity supply and to suggest that it should not pay its share of the rates burden is a whimsical approach to Government. No responsible Government could accept it, as a naked proposition without some supporting analysis. Such analysis can only be carried out in the light of all the major considerations which are relevant to electricity prices and costs and since these are still under examination I cannot presume to prejudge the outcome. But I can point out what some of the major considerations in regard to this particular issue are likely to be.

Likewise, the fuel oil tax. No sensible Member of this House likes this tax any more than he likes other taxes. If the proposers of this amendment were prepared to discuss the abolition of services and costs which give rise to a need for this or for any other tax, then this amendment would have a purpose. But as it stands it has only the merit of opportunism.

The last suggested action in the amendment — calling on the Government to reduce the price of natural gas — is the element in this proposal which must cause raised eyebrows. The simple fact is that when an international oil company supply oil to the ESB they must be paid the international market-price. But here we have a proposal that the Irish State-owned supplier of natural gas, Bord Gáis Éireann, should be paid a lower price for a depleting native resource. One would expect from all sides of the House fundamental agreement on the proposition that when the taxpayer owns a resource it is not to be handed over for use at the cheapest possible price.

Why not cheap gas for NET?

A voice from the wilderness. Some Deputies may even remember the litany of warnings to successive Governments about misuse of our natural resources.

It will not happen with the Minister.

The Deputy may rely on me. Wait until after Christmas, I should not wish to trip myself up as the Deputy did.

In their report on "Irish Energy Policy", the National Economic and Social Council drew attention to the implicit subsidy which arises when the market price is not charged: the critical point is that the benefits of such a cheap gas policy accrue to large energy consumers rather than to the citizens as a whole. The Government must balance the benefits to be attained by natural gas users. In the case of electricity the price of natural gas has been held constant for two years running despite the generally adverse conditions in the economy and the fact that general inflation has increased by about 14 per cent since the last price review.

The suggestion in the Deputies' amendment that their suggested lowering of gas prices would eliminate the need for the recent rise in prices is ill founded. Whatever else has caused the rise in costs and obliged the Government to accede to this price rise, it cannot be the price of natural gas. To suggest this remedy is to borrow from oneself to pay off another creditor.

I invite Deputies to await the publication of the report of the inquiry into electricity prices. But I do not pretend that this means that an easy solution lies around the corner. For every gimmicky proposition to lower electricity prices which is bandied around, there is generally a corresponding payment to be made elsewhere. Most Deputies are aware of this, employees of the semi-State bodies are aware of it and consumers are aware of it.

In the context of the situation I have outlined, that is, the effects of increased fuel and other costs, the efforts of the board to gain revenue abroad through their consultancy activities and also their efforts in home markets, the Government, while considering the report of the prices inquiry, will be receptive to constructive criticism. It will be open to receive practical suggestions from any quarter which might help toward alleviating the problem. I believe that this debate can be a useful preliminary exercise. But in that regard problems of the ESB and of their consumers will not be solved by useless recriminations. It is through a rational constructive approach to the problem that a solution will be found. This was the Government's aim when they commissioned the inquiry into electricity prices. The clear establishment of the facts and their analysis in as scientific a manner as possible is clearly the first step towards a solution. Mention has been made already of the criticism levelled in recent times that industrial and commercial electricity tariffs are unduly high and that they are subsidising domestic tariffs. I believe that any such questions relating to a fundamental restructuring of the tariff should be addressed in the context of the consideration of the report of the inquiry and not in the context of a price increase which is in accordance with a recommendation of the National Prices Commission.

I shall conclude by acknowledging the tribute paid by Deputy Lyons in his contribution to the debate last week to the workforce of the ESB. I wish to add my appreciation and the appreciation of my Department to the management and staff of the board for the way in which they have carried out their work.

I wish to remind the House that Deputies Connolly, O'Connell, Mac Giolla, Kitt and Frank Fahey have offered for the 30 minutes left. Therefore, I appeal for cooperation so that each of these Deputies will have six minutes.

I will take only two minutes. Seeing that the Minister is in such a buoyant mood this evening I will ask him to initiate an inquiry into the charges for connections to new houses being made by the ESB in rural areas. It affects his constituency in Kerry as well as mine in Galway.

The cost for the installation of electricity to new houses far exceeds normal commercial rates. The ESB pricing structure for young married couples in particular is a true example of the absence of free market forces. It is an example of a dangerous monopoly at work. I am quite satisfied that a more competitive, efficient private enterprise outfit would be in a position to arrange for the erection of poles for the carrying of current to new houses at a far lower cost.

We have numerous examples of very large sums being charged to young people in rural areas for connections to their new houses. In the west in particular we have young couples living in newly constructed houses who do not have ESB current because they cannot pay the £2,000 or £3,000 being demanded by the ESB. I will give a perfect example of the telephone numbers the ESB are pulling out of the sky in the form of estimated figures they are giving to young people who want connections. I have two estimates given to the same person, one on 3 June 1984 at £1,741 and one on 8 October 1984, four months later, for £3,120. That kind of effort by the ESB has to be stopped and I am asking the Minister to initiate an inquiry into the charges being made to new applicants for electricity.

I simply want to deal with the three points made by the Minister when speaking about my amendment, relating to the levy on the ESB, the hydrocarbon fuel oil tax and the price of natural gas. Such levies were first put on the ESB in 1981. The ESB were founded in 1927 and from then until 1981 there was no such levy in existence. Yet the Minister said that no responsible Government could accept its absence as a naked proposition without some suporting analysis. In other words, every Government between 1927 and 1981 were totally irresponsible because they did not have a supporting analysis for refusing to impose such a levy.

The levy this year is £20 million and the ESB losses in the year to 31 March, according to their report, was £23.3 million, the worst trading result ever experienced by them. Of course, £20 million of that was taken by the Government in a levy — the ESB paid £20 million into the State coffers.

I am not asking the Government to reduce a tax that had been there for the last 50 years, as a Government did in regard to rates on property. I am simply asking them to restore the position from 1927 until 1981. When the Government began to look around for simple measures to get money into the Exchequer they forced the ESB to pay £20 million and thereby put up the price of electricity to consumers. Of course this is an indirect method of taxation: instead of imposing a tax that would bring in £20 million, the Government simply levied £20 million on the ESB and forced the ESB to put up the price to the consumers. If the ESB were not allowed to increase their prices they would have had to borrow more money which would create further problems for them.

The other matter to which our amendment refers is the hydrocarbon fuel oil tax. This has been referred to repeatedly by the CII. A few weeks ago they said it is the highest tax rate paid by any user of hydrocarbon fuel. Of course, the Government's aim was to bring an easy £10 million into the Exchequer. It has been suggested to me — I have no proof of this — that the new Alumina Contractors' plant in Aughinish is free of duty on hydrocarbon oil. That may well be one of the incentives towards the development there but surely if it is true and if all other users are paying rates lower than the ESB, the Minister is totally irresponsible because he is compelling ESB consumers to pay a further indirect tax to the Government. It is a further reason why the ESB had to increase their prices.

It is also a further reason why their losses are increasing. Their deficit last year was £23 million. According to the Minister for the Environment today the cumulative deficit next year will be £37 million and it is estimated there will be a further deficit of £40 million, bringing the total deficit to £77 million. They are a company who have been completely viable since 1927. They did not take a penny from the taxpayers; they operated on their own revenue and borrowings and gave a fantastic service to the people and for our development as a people. Now they are being crushed into the ground by levies and taxes.

My final point is the price being charged for natural gas. When Bord Gáis Eireann began to bring natural gas ashore they needed, first of all, a high user, some body who would use it immediately. They asked the ESB and the ESB agreed and said they would build a special power station in Cork to take natural gas. They built that special station and they were told they would have the gas for only about ten years. Then they would have to stop. The ESB can get coal cheaper than they can get natural gas from Bord Gáis Éireann. Bord Gáis Éireann made £68 million profit and that goes into Alan Dukes' Exchequer.

Please refer to the Deputy as Minister.

It goes to the Minister for Finance. That is another easy way of bringing money into the Exchequer at the expense of the ESB consumer.

The Minister mentioned the interconnector in Northern Ireland which was blown up by the Provos. It was never replaced. The ESB have to have a higher capacity as a result. They must have a minimum of 35 per cent over-capacity in production in case of a breakdown in a major power station. In other words, at all times they must have at least 35 per cent more than is necessary. If they had an interconnector they would need less capacity. The Government made no effort to help the ESB to replace the interconnector.

It is claimed by the ESB union, ESBOA, that last year the Government forced the ESB to pay an exhorbitant price for turf well above the price recommended by the Prices Commission. Bord na Móna made a profit, but the ESB make a loss. It is the Government who have broken down and wrecked the finances of the ESB and forced them into a position of constantly having to increase prices. They must charge high domestic and commercial prices which makes things difficult for every business. The Eastern Health Board had to pay 30,000 ESB bills last year on behalf of consumers who could not afford to pay their bills.

I speak in support of this motion. I find the Government amendment totally negative, regressive and displaying a contemptuous disregard for the widespread dissatisfaction and concern among the public and industry at the escalating cost of electricity. For a Government which claims to be concerned about issues such as this the amendment is astonishing, reflecting as it does a callous and very conservative attitude. It is a reflection on the Labour participants in the Government who masquerade as the champions of the poor, the very people who will be most affected by these increases. Labour are concerned about unemployment, which will increase following the decision to raise electricity prices.

As I have said, the Government's negative attitude disturbs me. The justification for increasing the charges is "that electricity prices can only be reduced through long term structural measures which allow for regional employment and social as well as economic aspects of electricity supply". The Government's argument totally ignores the recommendation of the NESC Report, No. 74, 1983. The recommendation of that report was that in a case of excessive capacity of electricity, which is what we have today, any price which could be obtained for an additional unit of electricity greater than the additional fuel operating cost incurred in generating that additional unit would make a contribution towards the capital costs incurred in installing existing capacity. This marginal cost pricing strategy, if adopted, would encourage demand for electricity and thus bring down the price.

While this strategy could not continue indefinitely because it would run counter to conservation measures, the NESC report stated that its adoption could be appropriate in present circumstances since capital costs are already sunk and less advantageous capital spending or other forms of energy would be curtailed. This strategy could be designed so that the bulk of the benefits accrue to the trading sectors. The Government ignored this recommendation. Why did they do so? Why did they not introduce this strategy as an alternative to price increases? Why did the Government not relax their demand on the ESB so that they would not be obliged to purchase quantities of oil from the Irish National Petroleum Corporation at prices considerably in excess of those available elsewhere? In 1983 the extra cost to the ESB was £5 million.

Is it not obvious that it is Government policy which is responsible for ESB price increases? Government policy in relation to the price of turf to the ESB is a major factor in the high cost of electricity. Government policy in regard to energy prices, as the NESC report states, is ad hoc and unco-ordinated. Again the NESC lay the blame at the door of the Government.

The Government's answer to the Opposition motion is lamentable. It displays a lack of concern and inability to examine other possibilities such as the NESC recommendations. The Government's policy displays a bankrupt approach to the question of electricity prices.

Deputy Connolly has agreed to give the Deputy some of his time.

Thank you. The Government seek the easy way out: grant the increase and be done with it. This Government's attitude and Labour's endorsement of it is a shame on the Labour Party which professes concern for the needy, the deprived and underprivileged. This increase most assuredly will result in increased unemployment. To say that nothing can be done is a downright insult. Shame on the Labour Minister who approved this increase. Shame on the Labour Ministers who supported him and shame on the Labour backbenchers who will walk through the division lobbies in support of it. I feel ashamed that I was ever associated with this party which claims to be a party of concern and to champion the cause of the needy. I say to the Labour Party their decision to endorse this increase, indeed to initiate it, and to come into the House with a feeble reason for that decision, will long be remembered by those they claim to represent. The people whose cause they claim to champion are being asked to accept a pay freeze, tighten their belts and suffer the humiliation and despair of job loss. They have the audacity to say that they care. Their one chance to redeem themselves is to have the political courage to overturn this increase and reject the political pressures of their so-called partners who are making them bite the dust. Reject their demands, save the soul of the Labour Party and save the country this added burden.

There are alternatives to this price increase. They need only take the trouble to examine them.

This is a very important motion which is before the House and there are many Deputies who wish to speak on it. We are trying to compromise as best we can and so give everyone a chance.

In the middle of a by-election I was just about to enter the arena when all of a sudden the great Labour Party and Fine Gael Party came out of their shell. We did not know what kind of shell it was. However, a week before the election they brought out a report saying they would keep the generating station in the midlands. They are winding down stations in other areas. In my part of the country we call that mothballing. They are very intelligent in my part of the country and, if there was a by-election, they would dump Fine Gael and Labour. Last November we moved a motion in regard to the future of the ESB turf burning generators but we got a negative response from the Government. Other Members and I received a document in the post which said there would be closures and when we checked we found that there was a report but that the contents could not be made known. I demanded to see that report and during a resumed debate on Private Members' Business, the Minister of State at the Department of Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism, Deputy Eddie Collins, interrupted to say that he now had a report and was going to release it. How do we explain that to the people?

They then overturned those proposals and introduced a new set which I call a three card trick. It is just not on. When I was director of elections in Laois-Offaly I asked the Minister for Energy and other members of the Fine Gael Party where they stood. I asked them to spell out their position and they called a conference in the Shelbourne Hotel. Journalists, especially those from provincial papers, asked a lot of questions which the Government did not like but the people of Laois-Offaly rejected their answers. The Government are dithering from one arena to another, calling to the Lord to send oil or some other source of revenue which will take them out of their financial dilemma. I estimate that about 5,000 jobs will be lost as a result of these increases in the price of electricity. What will that mean in the loss of PRSI and taxation? The Government gave an undertaking that they were going to have a plan for energy but we have heard nothing about it. I should like to go into this in more detail but I do not have the time. The Government have much to explain and when the people are called on to give a verdict on thir performance they will do so in no uncertain terms.

The Government and the Minister for Energy are very confused. During the summer, the Minister for Industry, Commerce, Trade and Tourism, Deputy Bruton, said that he was in favour of increasing electricity costs to the consumer in order to lower the cost to industry. We were told that the Minister for Energy disagreed with this policy and that is just one example of their confusion. There are many other examples, especially with regard to the peat burning stations. Perhaps the by-election in Laois-Offaly saved the power stations in those constituencies but the Government decided very quickly to close the Screeb power station in Connemara, an area which is one of the poorest in the country. There are 3,400 people registered as unemployed there and 70 per cent of all holdings are less than 30 acres. The unemployment rate is 40 per cent which is nearly treble the national average.

The Government are very choosey in deciding which stations they will keep open or close. The ESB invested £200,000 in 1983 in the complete overhaul and modernisation of the station at Screeb and this investment gave the impression, rightly or wrongly, and encouragement to other investors that the plant at Screeb would not be closed in the immediate future.

The reorganisation proposals put to the ESB by the consultants, Miller Barry, affect County Galway and Galway city. What cost savings are involved in these reorganisation proposals? I do not believe that the changes proposed for Galway district will contribute in any way to the aim of reducing the cost of electricity nationally. I am still awaiting a reply from the Minister as to what the cost savings will be. I tried to raise this in the House as it was raised in Galway County Council as far back as last August but we have not had the courtesy of a reply from the Minister or the Department. I understand that the engineering works at Tuam are to be closed and that 60 workers will be transferred from Galway to Limerick and that the Galway district management will be completely closed. I cannot understand why we are uprooting families and transferring them to Limerick, transferring business from Galway to Sligo in the north, from Galway to Limerick in the south and from the east Galway area to Dundalk. The whole situation is ludicrous especially as the Minister referred to the new houses that have to be connected and the western package of which we are so proud. We discussed the problems associated with group water schemes here last week. How can we have a consumer service when the whole Galway district management is being abandoned? Three district managers at Galway, Sligo and Limerick will be replaced by two regional managers. I hope the Minister can explain the reasons behind this; at least he should have the courtesy to reply to public representatives and local councillors as to why these drastic reorganisation proposals are taking place.

I am concerned at job losses because of the proposed increases in electricity charges. Many factories have closed this year. The Burlington Textile Plant announced their closure the other day with a loss of 250 jobs. The CII have said that the ESB price increases will lead to a loss of 3,000 jobs in industry and that £50 million will be lost in industry over the whole year. Let us hope that the Government will be more concerned about the competitiveness of Irish industry and exports. We must also limit imports. There are figures in the Córas Tráchtála export review telling us how industrial electricity prices have increased. In 1983 Ireland was the fourth highest in the EC after the Netherlands, Denmark and Italy, 8.6 per cent above the average EC price. This is in contrast to the position in 1973 when Irish prices were the lowest in the Community and were nearly one-third lower than the average. That is a clear indication of how our electricity prices have hit industry. Last week a Dublin mother had to go to court to get her entitlements under the free fuel scheme. It is hitting the consumers and industry and I call on the Government to withdraw their proposal that electricity prices be increased.

In the short time available to me I wish to make a few points. The ESB applied to the National Prices Commission for an increase in electricity charges, which claim was substantiated and proved beyond doubt. I was amazed to hear Deputy Connolly rant about the power stations in the midlands. The proposal put to the Government by the ESB was, as Deputy Connolly pointed out, leaked to the public before it even left the ESB offices. In that proposal there was reference to the closure of most of the power stations in the midlands but that did not happen.

Despite the ranting and raving of Deputy Connolly it did not happen and it will not happen. The ESB must get this increase if they are to continue to use small power stations, particularly in the midlands. The ESB are the most substantial user of peat from Bord na Móna. Are the Opposition saying the ESB power stations should be closed in order to reduce the price of electricity?

It appears to me that is what the Opposition were saying. It has been suggested turf is too dear.

It is not.

The carry-on of Deputy Connolly does not make sense. He continued on about this document that was leaked but I did not leak it. He got it before I did or before the Government did. He got it immediately it left the ESB offices.

He has a pal.

He must have but I am not faulting him for that. During the by-election he mentioned he used the big stick and he said they would keep the power stations open. The power stations are open and will remain open for their viable life.

Do the Government not want to close them?

We were the "baddies" who were going to close the stations and all of this was due to a stolen report from the ESB. At that time I gave an undertaking to my people in the Allenwood power station that I would fight to keep the station open. The stations in Portarlington and Allenwood are open and I am proud of that. We have kept these stations open even though they are loss-making so far as the ESB are concerned.

The ESB are the largest users of turf in the country. They use more than 35 per cent of machine won turf and almost 70 per cent of milled peat sold by Bord na Móna. People are saying that everything must be taken into account, that we should not use these products in order to reduce the cost of electricity. I remember when only one industry used turf as a raw material but it closed because Ministers in different Governments — Deputy Reynolds was one — said they could not subsidise the price of turf due to some ESB regulation. Thirty men were put out of work but I am not blaming Deputy Reynolds or the other Minister.

I want to see the small power stations open and burning turf. I want this for the sake of the workers in the midlands and elsewhere. We could use natural gas which would be the cheapest of all but I do not want to see that, and I am sure Deputy Reynolds does not want to see that happen. Despite all his shouting and ranting, Deputy Connolly could hardly want it to happen either.

The Minister for State appears to be under some misapprehensions as to where this party stand in relation to Bord na Móna and what mix of fuel should be used by the ESB. I endorse what he said that the Bord na Móna fuel mix should be continued until the resources are totally exploited. If any power station is to close the first one to close should be an oil-fired station. I am not making the case for inefficiency. I was amazed to hear Deputy Mac Giolla talk about the dear price of milled peat to the ESB. One would think Bord na Móna should be the St. Vincent de Paul Society for the ESB to allow them to produce a great balance sheet. He worked in the ESB. Does he want Bord na Móna destroyed?

The most recent report of the ESB is interesting. The Minister of State spoke about Allenwood in County Kildare but I will start with my own county, namely, the Lanesboro' station in County Longford. In their report the ESB gave the fuel cost per unit for a milled peat station as 2.924 p. Let us consider the situation with regard to oil. At Great Island, County Wexford, the cost is given at 4.109 p.; Poolbeg, Dublin, 3 p; Tarbert, County Kerry, 3.952 p. Does that suggest that Bord na Móna are selling their milled peat at too high a price to the ESB? It does not suggest it to me. The ESB should stop putting forward an argument that does no stand up. We acknowledge they have a major problem but they should not use such arguments. Some of the famous consultants here who write reports about these matters do not know the facts either.

We want a new direction in relation to energy policy and we want a new strategy. We are not taking an empty popular line. What we are talking about is plain commonsense. The Minister comes in here and delivers 11 or 12 pages in the vein that there is no alternative to the position. I remind him that that is only a repetition of the defeatist attitude of every member of this Government all of whom are totally bereft of any new approach, idea or innovation about where they are going and are bankrupt in their ideas as to how to approach it. This Government are merely skirting around the problem as they have done in the case of every other major problem facing this economy. The Minister, his colleague Deputy Desmond and the Labour Party, subscribe to the view that it is much more important to talk about contraception and divorce than about 215,000 people on the dole, the 10,000 young people leaving our shores every year for the last couple of years, the 30,000 hard-pressed people who had to have their bills paid by the Midland Health Board or the large part of the million homes that this increase will hit this winter when the lights will go out for many of them because they will not be in a position to pay this increase. The Government prefer to skirt around the problem and talk about red herrings and things that are far away and foreign than about the problems of this economy. They are feeding their giddy minds with foreign twaddle. That is the way I describe the actions or inactions of this Government.

With regard to the damage that this increase is going to do, there is a document that I should have thrown into the fire long ago. The Government are going around the country trying to sell it not alone to outsiders but to their own supporters. I know what they were told in my area and if they go to County Kildare, Deputy Bermingham's area, they will be told the same. It is a non-starter, a con job based on spurious assumptions and phoney figures that will not stand up. It is based on projections of interest rates that now are going in the opposite direction to what that document suggests. So much for that document.

Earlier this summer we had the White Paper on industrial policy. What did that say? That addressed the problem of the non-competitive situation in which Irish industry found itself because of the high cost of electricity, telecommunications and Government services. The Minister, Deputy Bruton, time and time again in the newspapers and on radio and television said his priority was to eliminate that non-competitiveness. The Government, as we know, say one thing and do another. They preach one principle but perform in the opposite direction. They brought in a 7 per cent increase in the cost of electricity and they say there is not other way out. There is another way out if they are interested in listening to it, but they prefer to take the easy way out by saying that the ESB must get this increase. Let us examine the facts.

Will the Government decide to bring in the report on industrial costs and, side by side with it, the report that was commissioned in October 1982 when the decision was taken to make this inquiry? Now in November 1984 it sits on the Minister's desk where probably it will gather cobwebs because he does not intend to give it the light of day. If he did so intend he would have brought it in with this increase in an effort to substantiate his argument. Obviously the report of the committee of inquiry does not stand behind his argument and he would be shown up as being rather stupid in bringing it forward. Maybe he does not intend to do so, but when I get the opportunity I will debate the full details.

The ESB brought out their annual report which said that they were in deficit of £23 million. If they were any other commercial business in this country what would be the true figure on those accounts from the ESB? If it was I, in my own business, or anybody else in business, that set of accounts would not show a £23 million deficit if it was in accordance with commercial practices and principles that must be practised by every commercial concern in this country. It would show a profit of £36 million because buried in those ESB accounts is a factor called double depreciation. In our own businesses we are allowed only single depreciation. The ESB have been allowed double depreciation since they were set up. It is time to blow the myth that they are running a really commercial concern. Therein lies the hiding of large sums of money, and that is recognised. In their annual report for the first time it has now been brought down slightly from what it was, adjusted maybe £1 million or £2 million.

Double depreciation was given to the ESB when they were set up to enable them to generate enough cash to carry on with their development programme. I suggest that the time has come for the last programme of development by the ESB for a long time into the future with the building of stages 1, 2 and 3 at Money-point, on the basis that the power stations which the Minister, Deputy Bermingham, referred to are kept in operation. If they are not, then in 1990 over-capacity might not be as great as it is today. I am not one of those defeatists who believe that the Irish economy is dead for all time, despite the best efforts of this Government and every decision they have taken and every budget they have brought in to ensure that major industry, which at the end of the day produces the wealth that sustains the people, is buried. I do not know whether they can see the light of day or what makes the economy tick, but they have not shown that they do in their actions of the last two years in Government.

The Minister argued that it is silly to say that we can reduce the price of electricity, that somebody must pay the tax. I suggest that it is time he looked around and at the outside world and realised that 215,000 people are on the dole and that the taxpayers are paying for the borrowings to sustain those people on the dole. I suggest to him that there is a different philosophy from the one he and his Labour Party colleagues adopt. That is, the more people you put back to work, the more tax and revenue will be created for the Exchequer and the less money you need to borrow to pay for it.

This Government came into power preaching competitiveness, from the sermonising of the Taoiseach down to the speeches of every other Minister, and they have made sure that Irish industry has become more uncompetitive. In the middle of 1983, with the problem they had in trying to balance their books, what did they do? They put up the price of natural gas by 50 per cent to the ESB, from 16.07p per therm to 24p. Why? They cannot say that they were going to charge what is the commercial price of gas to any outside consumer because if they say that they should have put it to 32p or 33p. They put it up from 16p to 24p. The Minister and the Government can easily take it back and absorb that 7 per cent for a short period until every Member of this House gets a look at the report of the committee of inquiry and we have an opportunity to devise a new energy policy, but obviously this Government have no intention of doing that.

When I left the Department of Energy a lovely contract lay on the table there, ready to be signed, that in 1984 terms would bring in approximately £600 million in revenue to this State from the North of Ireland and the British Exchequer. The Government let it run on from day to day. I do not know what they did with it. I challenge the Minister and the Taoiseach to come in and tell us why that contract was not put into practice. If they had not slipped up on that they would not need any more of this revenue that they are talking about in relation to this and they could give the ESB natural gas at a reasonable price. The one thing that this economy has to its advantage at the moment is that we have natural gas, yet the Minister suggests that there is no other use for it, that we leave it at the bottom of the sea for the next 20 years, that there is no more gas to be found around our coasts. That is nonsense. The reports in his office are available to him as they were to me and if he has any judgment at all he will realise there are other sources of gas to be found around our coast. We must develop the market for natural gas. That is what I was doing in relation to the North.

It is ironic that earlier this evening in this House our leader had to point out to the Taoiseach that time and time again we on this side said that the Government were going to be sold a dummy and made a fool of by the British Prime Minister in all their dealings with her. The same British Prime Minister wrote the most sarcastic letter that could be written to an Irish Prime Minister in relation to the North of Ireland gas deal. He did not publish that but if he had the commonsense and wisdom to read between the lines he would know what to have expected in Downing Street yesterday when she dug his grave for him at 5 p.m. Indeed, the national handlers here are digging the grave and they will see him buried. If he had listened to commonsense — it appears he is not prepared to do so — he would not have turned out to be, as he was regrettably yesterday, a national embarrassment. Again we were told by Britain that we do not count, the Empire still rules and Britannia still rules our shores.

The Government sank our national fleet last week. They made a national disgrace of us yesterday evening and now when we are trying to preach commonsense to them in relation to an energy policy that can improve the competitiveness of Irish Industry, that they should use our natural gas resources to alleviate the problems of our economy, they fail to recognise those opportunities. I say to the Government, "Take up that, do the job the people elected you to do or else, as Mrs. Thatcher said yesterday evening, out, out, out."

Question, "That the amendment be made", put, and a division being demanded, it was posponed in accordance with the order of today until 8.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 21 November, 1984
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