This does not seem to be my day as far as getting across these questions. We ran out of time at Question Time but thanks to the co-operation of the House we made that up to some degree but now, due to the normal working of the House, instead of there being a 30 minute debate we have only 15 minutes. In that time I hope I will have ten minutes and the Minister will have five minutes. I only regret he will not have 20 minutes because the answers are more important than the questions.
First, I want to put on record that I put down 11 questions, not ten and all were directed to where I believe they rightfully should have gone, to the Taoiseach, and not be shovelled across as they were to the Minister for the Public Service. It was a neat sidestep prior to the summit. I had these questions down before the summit. I want the Taoiseach to know that sending in a Minister, no matter which Minister, is dodging the issues raised in the questions on today's Order Paper which the Minister attempted to answer as best he could.
I want to ask the Taoiseach through the Minister, through the Chair, whether he signed the memorandum of understanding, whether it was a secret memorandum of understanding despite what the Minister said because it was signed on 19 October but was not laid before the Houses until 24 October. Why was it delayed five days? Why was it not left with us for a time so that it could be debated before it was signed? Was it just a sweetener for the summit? If it was, it was not very successful as we know from the outcome of that summit.
Questions Nos. 22 and 23 asked whether any members of the Army or Garda had been instructed or had been in the precincts of establishments in Britain or the Six Counties. The Minister said categorically no to those questions. When asked if they had been or if they will be in the future, the Minister again said no.
I am asking for a solemn undertaking from the Minister on behalf of the Government, even if it is outside the memo of understanding that we heard about today, whether there have been Army officers in the establishments in the UK for a considerable time, whether they have been trained in various aspects of war by British Army officers and personnel and whether Garda members have, likewise, got the benefit of our great benefactors, the British, in the art of suppressing our people. I want to know whether that is true because it is commonly believed that it is. Our information is that Army officers have been so treated as well as Garda members. If it is not true, so much the better but I should like the Minister to give that assurance.
Meaning no disrespect to the Minister, the constitutionality of what is proposed is in doubt. It is not good enough that he or the Government are of the opinion that it is constitutional and that there is no method whereby it can be referred to the Supreme Court. The very fact that the Minister added that strengthens the fears I have already that it is unconstitutional. A way should be found to bring it before the Supreme Court even if it necessitates a Bill being introduced in this House which can be referred to the Supreme Court through the office of the President. I am sure that legal minds will find a way of testing its constitutionality.
A child would not be satisfied with this. The Minister said that the Official Secrets Act can be applied to members of another country or another civil service whose members come in here on an exchange deal. His assurance that the Acts concerning treason and official secrets will apply in those cases is not worth the paper it is written on because it is when they return to their country of origin that there is a danger of treasonable acts and breaking of the Official Secrets Act. What can the Minister or the Government do then? They are out of the jurisdiction and they can talk at will as no doubt they will. Knowing the disposition of the British over the years, months and recent days, they are desperately anxious to penetrate into the heart of our Government to add to the knowledge which they already have through their secret service and their SAS marauding gangs operating south of the Border. Of course, our Government treat that as fantasy or mythology. It is neither; they are there and the Government know this. Why give them any more access by way of a memo of understanding that is neither constitutional nor wise? Are we in danger of being dragged into NATO and to the Western European Union by the activities and the knowledge gained by these people? To exclude four sensitive Departments does not reassure me that these people will not have access to information which it is vital to keep from them. As civil servants they will have access to information which they are not entitled to know as foreigners. We must ensure that this is not another effort, as has been tried in Europe, to drag us into NATO and totally nullify any power we have to retain our neutrality in the future. Beware of Article 28.3 of the Constitution which says that we are the only people empowered to declare war or to enter a war. Let us not cod ourselves that these people are not sufficiently clever, as they have displayed over the years, to manipulate access to information through their membership of our Civil Service.
We want the British out of this country. Never mind the bull that is talked in the Forum, the Summit or otherwise. Instead of trying to get them out we are legalising their coming into the heart of Government and it is a shame that this should happen. Are we going to have a debate on this? We should have a referendum on it also so that the people could express their opinion.
