asked the Minister for Communications when the revised CIE wages grade pension scheme will be finalised.
15.
Ceisteanna—Questions Oral Answers - CIE Pension Scheme.
14.
asked the Minister for Communications if he will arrange to index link the pension which is paid to CIE workers.
16.
asked the Minister for Communications if his Department has been advised when CIE expect to pay the revised pension payments to pensioners; and if his Department has made provisions for any extra financial help to CIE regarding these new pension payments.
17.
asked the Minister for Communications the present position of the negotiations between CIE and the unions on a wages grade pension; and if the scheme will include lump sum payments to pensioners.
I propose to reply to Questions Nos. 39, 40, 60 and 88 together.
The present position with regard to the revised pension scheme for CIE wages grades employees is as outlined in my reply of 7 November 1984. The improvements outlined in that reply do not provide for lump sum payments to pensioners. My approval for the improvements would be conditional on the cost being met out of CIE's own resources.
While arrangements already exist in CIE for periodic reviews of pensions, the question of what further increases will be due in the coming years to wages grade pensioners will fall to be determined in the light of whatever revisions to the existing scheme eventually emerge.
As I have indicated, when the board of CIE, having completed their discussions with the unions, submit an amending scheme to me within the limits I have set out, I will arrange for confirmation at the earliest possible date.
Is the Minister aware that at present many wages grade workers in receipt of a pension of £16.50 per week will receive very small increases in their pensions under the terms of the proposed pension scheme? Is he satisfied that the new level of pension for such workers, with no lump sum included, is fair and equitable after 40 years service with CIE?
I have been concerned for a long time about pensions in CIE. As a former Minister for Transport, the Deputy will know that the pension scheme is designed so that the amount paid by way of pension to wages grade employees, added to their social welfare entitlement, would give them the equivalent of two-thirds of their wage on retiring. In 1981 the then Coalition Government indicated they were prepared to allow an increase in the pensions but this was refused by the unions because of negotiations going on for a complete reconstruction of the pension scheme.
Those negotiations went on for a considerable time but when a new scheme emerged the unions, having reflected on the proposals, turned them down. In the meantime I indicated to the board of CIE that I was prepared immediately to authorise an increase from £16.50 per week to £34.50 a week, more than double the rate. That offer is now before the unions. I understand some of the unions have accepted it but one major union has not accepted it. That is what is holding up the matter.
I accept that the proposed offer to those who are at a certain level of income could be £34 but the reality is that for a large number of the wages grade employees in CIE who are at a lower wage level the increase could be as low as £5 or £6 per week. If the Minister is not aware of that, perhaps he would look into the matter.
I am very well aware of the matter. Anyone will accept that an increase from £16.50 to £34.50 per week is quite substantial. When that is added to the social welfare entitlement it gives a sum equivalent to two-thirds of wages at retirement. The pension arrangements need to be seen in that context.
I am not suggesting that the Minister is trying to mislead anyone but it is misleading to suggest that will apply generally. At the moment all get £16.50 per week. With regard to the proposed scheme, many will not get the amount the Minister has mentioned; in fact, a large number will get a much lower increase. It is not realistic to say they will all get double the amount. Where people are earning a relatively high income at the wages grade level it will mean they will get almost double, but for many the increase will be very small.
There is some truth in what Deputy Faulkner has said but, as I have pointed out, this is an interim arrangement which the Government have offered pending conclusion between the unions themselves of a more comprehensive and more acceptable pension scheme.
In these circumstances will the Minister make available sufficient money to CIE so that all of the wages grade earners can have a pension at the maximum amount referred to by him?
As the Deputy knows only too well, money is very scarce. Given the scarcity of money and the constraints on the Exchequer, the offer made is quite generous. A sum of £104 million has been set aside in this year's Estimates and there could be a certain flexibility within that for CIE to make alternative suggestions.
Will the Minister clarify the present position with regard to all the negotiations? In view of the offer he made, have all negotiations stopped between the unions and CIE? Has the offer of maximum £34 to be added to social welfare entitlements precluded any future discussion regarding a lump sum?
I understand this matter is with the management of CIE and will go before the board. Several of the unions have accepted the offer but one union has not accepted it. It is now a matter for management and the board to decide how they should proceed. It would be wrong for me to anticipate how the board should proceed. I expect they will take some action in the matter in the very near future.
Will the Minister accept that a semi-State company should not expect that after a lifetime of service its employees should retire on a pension of £16 per week? Will he agree that is wholly unacceptable?
As the Deputy knows, I am very familiar with the problems of CIE, especially in Inchicore. I have already said that the low pensions in CIE have been a matter of concern to me for many years. That is why I persuaded the Government to authorise an increase of over 100 per cent, bringing the pension to £34.50 at the maximum. In the present circumstances that is a very generous offer. As I have told the House, the plan is that this sum, together with social welfare entitlements, will give those on the wages grade who are retiring from CIE some two-thirds of their wage on retiring.
Would the Minister like to comment on the anomalous position of the supervisory grades?
That is another question.
I was afraid the Minister would say that, but it was no harm to try.