asked the Minister for Communications his proposals for subsidising the pensions of Irish Shipping employees whose pensions were being subsidised by Irish Shipping prior to its liquidation.
13.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Irish Shipping Employees Pensions.
12.
asked the Minister for Communications if he will consider making provision for payment of the pensions and outstanding moneys to employees of Irish Shipping which were lost in the recent liquidation of the firm in view of the long standing close relationship of Irish Shipping with his Department.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 12 and 13 together.
Although I have no statutory function in relation to this matter I am having it examined to see if the legal and financial problems can be overcome at least in respect of those with service during World War II.
The Minister is on record as expressing concern for the people who gave service from 1939 to 1945. Will he extend his benevolence to all those who have found themselves at a loss as a result of what happened to Irish Shipping?
I wish to assure the Deputy and the House that my concern is for all of those on pension from Irish Shipping. I am very disposed to doing what I can to help in the situation. There are some legal and financial implications that may not be immediately evident but we are looking at these with urgency. I am very sorry I have not been able to resolve the issues by now but I hope I will be able to resolve at least part of them shortly. I am giving the matter top priority.
As much seems to hinge on the activities of the liquidator, can the Minister tell the House when he thinks the liquidator will bring his process to an end? It seems that nothing can happen, in this House anyway, until that has happened.
I cannot say. It would be wrong of me to speculate on when the liquidator might complete his work, but I do not think it will be in the immediate future.
Let me ask the Minister to confirm what seems to be a welcome indication of accepting broad responsibility for all the pensioners of Irish Shipping Limited if he can find a legally acceptable way of doing something. In view of the fact that £7 million or £8 million was paid out to the Verolme Cork Dockyard pensioners in redundancy funds, let me ask the Minister about the redundancy payments that might be involved for those who were in Irish Shipping Limited apart from the existing pensioners who have lost their subsidy. Could these be included in a sympathetic review? Some of them have had very long service and stand to lose substantial amounts of money, and traditionally they regarded themselves as State employees.
Statutory redundancy payments are the responsibility of my colleague, the Minister for Labour, but I assure the Deputy that he is dealing very expeditiously with any applications for redundancy payments from those affected in Irish Shipping. I want to make it clear that there are legal and financial constraints in relation to taking on any payments in respect of pensioners in Irish Shipping. I am examining all these questions to see if and how they can be overcome and I hope at least to come to some conclusion on them as soon as possible. I realise that many people will be looking for indications of hope from me. I do not want to raise false hopes and have them dashed so I cannot make any commitment, but I am doing my best and I hope that at least I will be able to do something for those who had service during World War II.
Is the Minister keeping in contact with representatives of the workforce? I welcome the special treatment given to a particular group of pensioners, but how does the Minister distinguish then from others who have given extremely long service? Would he not accept that the others have, if not as great a right, a very strong right to maximum consideration?
I assure the Deputy that everybody will get maximum consideration. Whether that means having the ex gratia part of their pension paid in full remains to be seen. I cannot promise that that will be the outcome. I am examining the matter and have been doing so for several months with great priority, and it is a matter of great regret to me that I have not been able to finalise it by now.
Apart from the legal situation, how much money is involved in these pensions? Has the Minister estimated what the cost will be if he is to be able to help as he would appear to wish to help?
That gets to the nub of the problem. It is not clear what other liabilities will be undertaken by setting a precedent, but the estimated annual cost in ex gratia payents to Irish Shipping Limited would be close to £100,000.
A bagatelle.