It is proposed to take Nos. 9 and 10. By agreement, business will be interrupted at 11.30 a.m. to take the remaining Stages of Item 10, which shall be brought to a conclusion not later than 5 p.m. today by one question which shall be put from the Chair which shall, in relation to amendments, include only amendments set down by the Minister for Health. If the proceedings on No. 10 are concluded before 5 p.m., No. 9 shall be resumed.
Order of Business.
Are the arrangements for today's business agreed?
Agreed.
Has the Taoiseach any comments to make on the statement by the Director General of AnCO that we are training thousands of apprentices with no jobs at the end? Have the Government any proposals, legislation, plans, ideas or thoughts for those young people?
That does not arise on the Order of Business, Deputy Ahern, I am sorry.
It is a fairly important issue.
Very important.
The Deputy should take it up with——
There are half a million unemployed and we have a training scheme for thousands without any hope of jobs.
The Deputy should take the matter up with his Whip, through the Government Whip.
It is the Taoiseach's concern.
Deputy Ahern knows Standing Orders and procedures.
On the Order of Business, would the Taoiseach or the Minister for Communications let the House know, in view of the present agitation, when the Road Transport Bill will be brought into the House?
It is presumed that the Road Transport Bill will be before this House before long.
Before long.
Change of phraseology.
With regard to Item 9, a Cheann Comhairle, you indicated to me, in reply to a number of questions that I submitted, that you would have to disallow them because, as you put it, they anticipated the budget debate. The range of questions that you disallow——
We cannot discuss my rulings here.
I wonder whether the matters which they anticipate will be disclosed in that debate.
We shall have——
This is important. If they do not, they do not anticipate the debate. I asked questions in relation to the following matters——
Deputy O'Kennedy——
——such as the buoyancy claims of the Minister for Finance.
Deputy, please. That is a matter for the debate and the Deputy can raise it then.
That is my very question, a Cheann Comhairle. You anticipate what is anticipated by the debate.
The debate is the time to raise it and find that out.
Could I make my point clear?
No, Deputy, you may not, I am sorry. I am ruling you out of order, Deputy.
It would be one thing if the Minister for Finance were prepared to disclose this information in the debate. However, when he does not, I submit that it is not only open to me but that I am entitled to raise the question in the normal course of questioning here. I have been disallowed——
Deputy O'Kennedy may not question the ruling of the Chair in this way.
Could you explain to me——
I cannot allow it. I am sorry, Deputy.
Could you explain to me and to the House generally what the Chair means by anticipating a debate in which the issues are not being duly brought up by the Minister?
The Chair ruled in accordance with long established precedent and I——
If the long established precedent is neither understood nor sensible, a Cheann Comhairle, would you explain to me what we are anticipating?
Then the Deputy can take steps to change the Standing Orders.
A precedent is a different matter.
Is there a point of order involved in the fact that, for the first time in my recollection in this House, we are now debating a budget which is no longer the budget of the Government?
Deja-vu.
There have been four or five major changes in the budget introduced here on budget day. We are still dealing, theoretically, with the budget which was introduced on budget day. Is that a point of order?
No, Deputy.
No? It is a very confusing situation.
The very first item on today's Order of Business is the budget. You can raise the matter then.
That is what I am getting at. You see the whole order——
What we want to know is whether we can discuss the present budget or the other one.
The Order of Business today set up the Order of Business.
I have a question in that regard. We are in theory discussing a budget which was brought in by the Minister for Finance——
That is a point for the debate. I know that Deputy Haughey will accept the Chair's ruling, fallible and all as it may be.
We have orders for a discussion of a budget which is no longer the budget of the Government.
That is true, but the Leader of the Opposition is not doing himself justice here.
With respect, there are four radical changes in the budget. Could I suggest this, to put the budget debate in some sort of rational order — that the Minister for Finance would bring in a new budgetary table for us? Would that be possible? Would you ask him to do that, a Cheann Comhairle?
I shall allow you to ask that question and I shall allow the Minister to answer, if he wants to answer.
If he is able to.
We are discussing the 1985 budget. I do not propose to bring in a new budgetary table, for reasons which have been made perfectly clear on this side of the House.
On the Order of Business, perhaps the Minister could bring in a new supplementary budget?
That does not arise on the Order of Business. I call Deputy Mac Giolla:
Surely it does.
(Interruptions.)
Is the Minister going to introduce all these changes in a supplementary budget?
The Deputy is out of order. I call Deputy Mac Giolla.
We shall have one in a month's time.
Could I ask the Taoiseach when he intends to resume the debate on the Nurses' Bill, Item 13 on the Order of Business?
That is a matter that can be discussed between the Whips. The date of the resumption of the debate will, I am sure, be discussed between them.
Does the Taoiseach regard that legislation as a matter of importance and urgency like other legislation? Does the Taoiseach intend to complete it urgently?
It has I believe, already had three or four days in the House. The Whips will arrange when it will take place.
For the umpteenth time I should like to ask the Taoiseach when is it proposed to introduce legislation dealing with the Cork free port.
Very soon?
Before long?
For the umpteenth time time, before long.
The Deputy should remember that "early in the new year" means "late in the new year".
The matter is serious and deserves more than the flippant answer given by the Taoiseach, one he has been giving for quite some time. It is far more urgent on the Cork scene than contraceptives. Will the Taoiseach give a specific answer as to when the Bill will be introduced? I do not mind which Minister introduces it.
I would like Deputy Fitzgerald to have a happy Easter, and we will have the Bill by then.
This Deputy will have a happy Easter, a much happier one than the Taoiseach will have.
My Easter will be an extremely happy one after the events of the last 24 hours.
When will the Bill be introduced?
On the question of promised legislation I should like to ask the Taoiseach when we will see the legislation promised on industrial development. I am concerned about the legislation that will deal with alterations in the Industrial Development Authority and other industrial development legislation. Will that legislation include the National Development Corporation?
They are separate issues. The National Development Corporation Development Bill is a separate Bill to the other mentioned by the Deputy. The National Development Corporation Bill will be before the House before long. The Industrial Development Bill will take somewhat longer. We will endeavour to have it introduced in this session but I cannot absolutely guarantee that. I expect it will be, but I cannot be absolutely certain that it will be through the House in this session. We would hope to have it introduced in this session.
Did the Taoiseach say that the IDA Bill will take longer than the National Development Corporation Bill? Do I take it when the Taoiseach said that the Bill will be introduced in this session that the IDA Bill will be introduced? Will the National Development Corporation Bill be introduced in this session, or will both?
The National Development Corporation Bill will be introduced before long. The IDA Bill will take somewhat longer. It will be introduced in this session, I think, but it will depend upon the time available in the House as to whether it is enacted in this session.
The National Development Corporation Bill will be introduced in this session?
Yes, it will be enacted in this session.
Will that be supported by Minister Bruton?
Will the Taoiseach indicate when it is likely that the legislation in respect of the setting up of a national lottery will be before the House? I should remind the Taoiseach that repetition is not allowed under Standing Orders.
That is being the schoolmaster.
The matter of the report prepared on the question of a national lottery has yet to come before the Government, and we have not yet reached the stage of considering it and deciding as to what form the legislation might take. It is premature at this point to discuss the date of the legislation.
I am thankful to the Taoiseach for his helpful reply. Is the Taoiseach aware that his junior Minister is giving many organisations hope that they will benefit when the legislation is passed next year?
I will not allow that. I allowed the Deputy ask a question, but that should not give rise to a debate or a discussion.
This is very unsatisfactory. We seek information here and we do not get it although information is given outside the House.
There is considerable disquiet in tourism circles concerning the reorganisation of tourism regions and I should like to know, bearing in mind that the Minister responsible for tourism indicated that a tourism policy would be announced in the near future, if the Minister will say when he intends announcing the arrangements for the reorganisation of the regions.
Far from there being considerable disquite there is considerable delight in tourism circles about what the Government did in the budget to give a boost and make this the best ever season for tourism.
Deputy Flynn rose.
I will not allow a discussion on tourism or anything else.
Will the Minister indicate if he intends reorganising the tourism regions? When will he announce details of his plan?
That does not arise on the Order of Business.
It has been promised by the Minister for some time.
Legislation has not been promised in this area.
(Limerick West): In view of the widespread confusion in the dairy industry will the Taoiseach allow Govern-ment time to debate the milk quota super levy and our claim before the European Court of Justice?
The Deputy should take that up with the Whips. It does not arise on the Order of Business.
(Limerick West): I am to take it, therefore, that the Government will not allow Government time?
I should like to ask the Taoiseach if in the preparation of the Finance Bill he will consider making changes in the venture capital scheme which has been such a disaster up to now.
That is a matter for the Committee Stage of the Finance Bill.
I have put a reasonable request to the Taoiseach to make a change in the preparation of the Finance Bill in a scheme that has been a dismal failure up to now and should be in the interest of creating employment. If the Taoiseach, and the Government, are not interested in that and the Chair wants to rule that way that is fine, but that is the real issue in our streets today.
It arises on the budget debate or the debate on the Finance Bill.
The real issue outside today is the creation of employment.
May I answer the query?
If it is a point of explanation.
May I answer the query about the Finance Bill?
(Interruptions.)
The Taoiseach attempted to reply to Deputy Reynolds's out of order request and I ruled him out of order.
I did not hear him.
I am not surprised.
May I take it that the Government are not concerned with creating jobs?
This is not in order.
That is the only sensible conclusion I can come to.
On a point of order, I have raised the question before about the procedure under which allegations are made from the other side of the House that are false and I am not allowed to reply because they are out of order. Is it not possible to have some system under which if an allegation is made one is at least allowed to answer it?
It may be possible but I have not yet thought up a method, and if the Taoiseach has any suggestions to make and puts them to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges I will have them processed there.
I will enter into correspondence with the Chair on the matter.
Is the Taoiseach making allegations against me? The scheme has been a dismal failure and he should recognise that and the fact that jobs are important.
I am calling Item No. 9.
I should like to ask the Taoiseach, in relation to statistics, if it will now be the function of the Higher Education Authority alone to deal with emigration figures——
I am calling on the Deputy to resume his seat.
——as if the only people emigrating from here are those with third level qualifications.
I will have to ask the Deputy to leave the House if he does not resume his seat.
A lot of young people are leaving the country, and that is my worry. The Taoiseach seems to think that the Higher Education Authority are the ones responsible.
I should like the permission of the Chair to raise on the Adjournment the unprecedented landslide in the Geevagh area of County Sligo which is causing a lot of hardship to 19 farmers in that area. I should like to raise the failure of the Minister for Agriculture to meet a deputation from Sligo County Council to discuss that serious problem.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like the permission of the Chair to raise on the Adjournment the very serious matter of the apparent helplessness of the Garda in what is called joyriding and death on the roads.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like the permission of the Chair to raise on the Adjournment the failure of the Minister for Education to provide adequate post-primary school facilities at Mallow, County Cork, where increasing numbers are being refused admission to the new school.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like to raise on the Adjournment the matter of the imminent closure of many of the health services in the Western Health Board region and the reason the Minister for Health has refused to meet a deputation from that health board to discuss the matter of cutbacks of £4 million which will have a very serious effect on the health of people in the region.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.