asked the Minister for Health if he will make a statement on the recent report by the Committee of Public Expenditure on the proposed new dental hospital for Dublin.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Dublin New Dental Hospital.
8.
The Dublin Dental Hospital is primarily an educational institution and comes within the ambit of the Minister for Education. The proposed new Dublin Dental Hospital to be constructed at the St. James's Hospital site will be funded entirely by the Department of Education so that the criticisms, comments and recommendations in the recent report of the Dáil Committee on Public Expenditure in relation to the new hospital project are largely directed towards that Department rather than towards the Department of Health. In regard to those matters in which my Department does have an involvement I would comment as follows.
Since my Department share in the day to day running costs of the Dublin Dental Hospital I agree that there should be an adequate recovery of fees from ineligible patients who receive treatment in the hospital. There has, in fact, been a considerable improvement recently in the level of collection of fees from ineligible patients. With regard to the employment of dental auxiliaries, the Dental Council are already carrying out a study on the lines recommended by the committee. The question of whether and how dental auxiliaries might be employed will depend in the first instance on the recommendations of the Dental Council, following the completion of their survey.
With regard to the new offices to be provided for the Eastern Health Board, the new accommodation did not arise because of the dental hospital project and would have had to be provided in any case.
Could the Minister, as the Minister responsible for dental health, inform the House if any manpower survey had been carried out by his Department prior to the decision to go ahead with the Dublin Dental Hospital? If such a survey was carried out, will the Minister inform the House as to the number of dentists deemed to be required by the Department for a year, to service the population?
There is a long established public education policy decision that the country should have two dental hospitals, one in Cork and one in Dublin. I do not propose to change that policy decision. The Higher Education Authority gave authority to the Cork Dental Hospital to train 25 students per annum. At the moment Cork are training 30. There has been a lot of pressure on this issue from some people, not necessarily the Deputy, with an inverted sense of parochialism. The Cork Dental Hospital are training 35 students which is 10 in excess of their approved number and Dublin are training 35 although the HEA gave them authority to train 40. The report of the Committee on Public Expenditure is quite erroneous and signally ill-drafted and the very special pleading in it does not stand up. The Cork Dental School may be assured of the continuity of its existence but it will not succeed in cornering all dental training and the Dublin school will be established. The Deputy should see the Dublin Dental Hospital with its appalling facilities. The site works at St. James's are now going ahead and the Dublin Dental Hospital will go ahead. I strongly support the Minister for Education in that regard. If I speak strongly about this it is because the pressures on this matter have been incessant.
I will allow a short question from Deputy Dowling.
Will the Minister say at what stage is the development of the Dublin site and when will it be completed?
The site works contract for the Dublin Dental Hospital has been awarded by the Department of Education and work has commenced on that site. The planning of the hospital has not yet been completed, but the site works have started. It has not yet gone to tender but hopefully it will go to tender.
It is clear from the Minister's original reply that a dental manpower survey was not done before the decision was made to spend £17.5 million on a new dental hospital. I do not deny that Dublin needs a dental hospital. Is the Minister criticising Cork for over-producing dentists when we are attempting to be more efficient and is he supporting Dublin in under-producing dentists?
That is argument.
Will the Minister agree that in view of the evidence in relation to dental health, with the fluoridation programme and fluoride toothpastes, there has been a closure of dental schools throughout Europe because of improved dental health? Surely he will agree that two dental hospitals, one in Cork and one in Dublin, each producing 25 dentists would be adequate? In other words, the Dublin hospital could be built on a reduced scale costing about £4 million and the money saved could go into dental care. The Minister should know that the dental care programme in the health boards is at crisis point because of lack of finance. Surely that would be a more sensible decision.
If the Deputy had asked those from my Department, the chief dental officer and the deputy chief dental officer, who gave evidence, he would have been assured that the figure of £17.5 million is rubbish, and that the £17.5 million is a Department of Education expense for a clinical science complex for the whole of St. James's Hospital. In that complex there is a new dental hospital. Unfortunately, the word has gone out apparently all over Cork that Dublin is getting a £17.5 million dental hospital. This is not true. I assure the Deputy that the Cork school, provided it trains 25 students per annum, will continue. I gather that in Cork they are now looking for additional staff from the HEA because there are 35 students and I hope the HEA will not be so foolish as to sanction those staff. The profession engaged in internecine warfare in relation to this matter and made very special pleadings to Deputies in this House, particularly those from Cork.
That is unfair.
I hope the Deputies will resist the pressures, because we need 25 dentists trained in Cork and about 46 trained in Dublin. That will be quite adequate for the number of dentists needed, and we may do well with less——
Question No. 9. I am not going to allow a prolonged debate on this. Will the Minister please answer Question No. 9.
the Minister has made a statement. I can give a breakdown on the figure of £17.5 million.
Will the Minister answer Question No. 9?