asked the Minister for the Marine the compensation, if any, which is provided for the former staff of Irish Shipping Limited in the recently published Estimates for his Department in 1988.
13.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Irish Shipping Staff.
7.
asked the Minister for the Marine the plans, if any, he has to fulfil the promises made by the Minister for Tourism and Transport to employees of Irish Shipping Limited when he was Opposition spokesman for communications.
17.
asked the Minister for the Marine if the examination of the situation of the former employees of Irish Shipping Limited, which was promised on 31 March last has yet been completed; if it is intended to sanction any additional payments or provide other financial assistance for the former employees; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
71.
asked the Minister for the Marine regarding the circumstances leading to the liquidation of Irish Shipping Limited if the Government have made any decision regarding the payment of any compensation to the ex-employees of the company for the loss of their jobs and the termination of their pernsion schemes.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 7, 13, 17 and Written Question No. 71, together.
I would refer Deputies to the reply of 31 March 1987 in which the then Minister for Communications explained that the question of providing financial assistance for the former employees of Irish Shipping Limited raises complex and sensitive issues.
At the moment, despite an exhaustive review of the situation of the former employees, it has not been possible to find a means of making available further payments beyond the statutory entitlements which have already been paid. I wish to reassure the Deputies, however, that the legal issues involved in the matter are under active scrutiny.
Deputies will appreciate that while the matter remains unresolved, it would be inappropriate, if not misleading both to the House and to the employees concerned, to make specific provisions in the Estimates.
Could the Minister tell us what has become of the promises made in June 1985 by the present Minister for Tourism and Transport when he moved a Private Members' Motion in this House demanding that compensation be paid to former employees of Irish Shipping? Surely we are entitled to an answer to this question.
Deputies will appreciate the legal implications involved. This matter has to be looked at. Recently a meeting was held between the Minister for the Marine, Deputy Daly, the Minister for Labour and representatives of the Irish Shipping Limited workers. At that meeting it was explained that the Government had inherited a difficult and complex legal situation and we said we wanted to have a further look at this before taking any action. As I said, there are legal complexities involved and the commercial law has taught all of us that, if there are unsecured creditors, there is a knock-on effect which could have drastic consequences for the country as a whole.
Those consequences were there before now.
Order. I am calling Deputy McCartan.
May I bring the Minister of State back to what was said in this House on 31 March? I quote what was said at column 674——
Quotations are not in order at Question Time.
On 31 March it was indicated that we would have a report from the Minister within a reasonable time. How long more must the House and the employees of Irish Shipping wait for this reasonable period to elapse before we get the report and an answer to their representations?
Replying to an Adjournment Matter raised last week in the Seanad by Senator Manning, I said I was extremely anxious that this matter should be brought to a conclusion at the earliest possible date. The last meeting took place in the third week of September. I reassure the House I shall do my utmost to have this matter brought to a conclusion as quickly as possible. Regardless of the outcome, it is unfair to have it going on any longer.
Can we take it from what the Minister said that no compensation will be paid during 1988 because no provision has been made in the Estimates?
Every consideration is being given to the legal complexities involved. As the Deputy is a member of a party which is very concerned about financial rectitude, he should be aware of the knock-on effect which such payment would have. The former Minister, Deputy Jim Mitchell, said in the House on 15 October that he went to the Attorney General's office to establish the legal complexities and he was informed that the knock-on effect could amount to over £200 million. This is a sensitive issue.
Is the Minister sorry that his party so often misled the unfortunate employees of Irish Shipping in raising their expectations? Will he now apologise to them? Will the Minister also invite all Members of the House, who disagree with him in regard to the legal implications, to make submissions to him as to how legally he might compensate these very worthy employees of Irish Shipping?
A meeting was held and everything possible is being done to try to find a formula which will be of some assistance to these people. Indeed, one of the main reasons for introducing the Shipping Investment Grants Bill was to try to indirectly assist these people and to try to find employment for them.
Does the Minister agree that there was a scandalous raising of expectations of the workers of Irish Shipping by Fianna Fáil in Opposition, particularly when they knew the legal implications?
Anything done at that time would have been done in all good faith——
With votes in mind.
——and I have no intention of apologising. No Deputy tries to mislead the House.
It is impossible to understand how the Minister of State arrived at a figure of £200 million as we are merely asking for compensation for 300 former employees of Irish Shipping. Surely compensation or pensions would cost very much less than £200 million? The Minister seems to be clouding the issue in this regard.
I am merely pointing out that the effects under the legislation would amount to £200 million. Unsecured creditors would also be involved.
That company law was there a few years ago.
The Minister referred to complex and sensitive issues and legal difficulties. Is the one major stumbling block to seeing the workers of Irish Shipping right that there may be follow-on claims from persons other than those employees?
That is one of the difficulties.
Could the Minister advise the House of the other issues that are complicating the matter for him and his Department, other than the knock-on effect financially?
If payment is made under the legislation, unsecured creditors all over the world — not just in this country — will be looking for payment. However, a meeting took place between the workers, the Minister for Labour and the Minister for the Marine on 25 September to see what can be done to assist these people. I hope this matter can be brought to a conclusion as quickly as possible because former employees of Irish Shipping should know precisely where they stand.
I wish to raise this matter on the Adjournment.
I will communicate with the Deputy.