Vol. 377 No. 5
asked the Minister for Labour the measures which are being taken to ensure that all employers pay the £4 per week minimum increase provided for in the pay agreement linked to the Programme for National Recovery; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
28.
asked the Minister for Labour if he will make a statement on the Government's attitude to pay increases for the lower paid during the currency of the Programme for National Recovery.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 18 and 28 together.
The agreements on pay negotiated in conjunction with the Programme for National Recovery are structured in such a way as to favour the lower paid. Both agreements provide for increases in pay of 3 per cent on the first £120 of basic weekly pay and 2 per cent on any amount of basic weekly pay over £120.
Where the application of this formula would result in increases of less than £4 per week in basic pay for full-time adult employees, the agreement covering the public service provides that the increases shall be adjusted to that amount. The agreement between the ICTU, FUE and CIF covering the private sector provides that the increases can be adjusted to £4 per week by local negotiation and local agreement.
Joint labour committees have been established to cater for the negotiation of rates of pay in a number of categories of employment in the private sector and difficulties have arisen in a number of these committees in relation to the application of the £4 per week minimum increase. The Industrial Relations Act, 1946, sets out the procedure to be followed by the joint labour committees in drawing up proposals for increases in pay and these procedures are at present being gone through by the committees.
Would the Minister accept that there appears to be considerable confusion on the part of the employers and the unions as to what exactly they negotiated in the pay agreement which accompanied the national plan? At the time when the national plan was published, it was hailed by the trade union movement because of its commitment to the lower paid. Specifically, it was asserted from every rooftop that the lower paid were now guaranteed an increase of £4 a week and it seems now that no such agreement was negotiated. Does the Minister accept that the pay agreement negotiated for the private sector contains within it no guarantee of a £4 increase for the lower paid?
As the Deputy has said, there is a dispute over exactly what the wording means. This is at present being negotiated between the joint labour committees. The Labour Court would have to give a final answer within about a week, I think.
Would the Minister indicate the present position of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions towards the pay agreement and towards the Programme for National Recovery? Does it remain the case that the Irish Congress of Trade Unions support of the Programme for National Recovery is conditional on implementation of the £4 a week increase for the lower paid?
The position is that we all would like to see the lower paid obtaining as much as possible under the agreement, that is, £4 a week. There is some disagreement on that matter. There is a very clear structure set out for dealing with the matter and that process is being dealt with.
Is it not the case that the Labour Court has made it clear that the payment or non-payment of £4 a week is a matter for local bargaining and that that view is unacceptable to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions who are a party to the Programme for National Recovery? What is the Minister going to do to salvage his Programme for National Recovery?
Does the Deputy want him to salvage it?
I want to find out what he is going to do with it.
Not too many weeks ago, the Deputy was complaining that we were paying anything under the Programme for National Recovery. I would hope that there would be no difficulties with the agreement in this case. The Labour Court has given its view and the Joint Labour Committees have examined the agreements and have given their views. This is the process of consultation which must take place. Within about a week the Labour Court has to give its final verdict.
The Minister has taxed me——
I want to dispose of these questions within the prescribed time. I am seeking the co-operation of the Deputies that this may be so.
One question has already gone.
I also have Deputy Colley's question to be answered and I hope to reach that.
Thank you, a Cheann Comhairle.
The Minister taxed me with what I had said a few weeks ago. Will he now, in fairness, confirm that my position has been that, while the pay agreement is flexible in so far as it relates to the private sector, there is no flexibility whatsoever as regards the public sector and the State is probably less in a position to pay than many private employers?
The facts are that the private employers, particularly those covered by JLCs, have been paying the full £4 at local level. I would hope that the £4 would be the minimum paid and that this matter would resolve itself at an early date.
