asked the Minister for Education the plans, if any, she has for medical education in this country; and if she has any proposals to close any of our medical schools.
65.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Medical Schools.
3.
asked the Minister for Education if it is proposed to take steps to reduce the number of doctors qualifying each year in line with the assessed needs; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 and 65 together. I have no proposals to close any of the country's medical schools nor do I have any plans, at present, to take steps to reduce the number of doctors qualifying each year.
Unfortunately, Deputy Allen cannot be here today so I should like to ask a brief question. In view of the very high standard in medical education offered by all the Irish medical schools and the great difficulties they are all experiencing now because of the cutbacks with which universities have to deal, has the Minister considered discussing with the Higher Education Authority and the medical schools the question of a co-ordinated programme of attracting students from other countries outside the EC who are very keen on the kind of medical training in this country in order to subsidise the training which these schools are finding it very difficult to give because of the difficult economic climate?
The Deputy may not be aware of the fact that the Government have already taken steps in that regard and have informed the universities, in particular the medical schools, that they wish them to increase their quota of non-EC persons wishing to enter their medical faculties. The HEA informed us that the universities have responded in relation to the numbers we requested. An inter-departmental committee, representative of the Departments of Education, Finance, Industry and Commerce, Labour, Health and Agriculture is now about to be set up. Their terms of reference will be to recommend the manner in which decisions should be taken about the desirable level of provision in particular disciplines or faculties within the overall total and they will take that consideration on board.
I welcome the Minister's information. Will the people coming to the medical schools from other countries be paying approximately £8,000 or £10,000 per year, which is the full economic cost, for medical education?
The people concerned will be paying the full economic cost so that the coffers of the college will be supplemented. It also lends an ambiance to a college to have students from various countries on the campus.
Does the Minister agree it is necessary for a country of 3.5 million people to have five medical schools? Given the Government's commitment to rationalisation of services, will it be necessary to rationalise some of the medical schools? Will the Minister agree that we are educating at least 150 doctors more per annum than we need? Given that the cost of educating these students is running at about £10,000 per annum, will she agree that this is a waste of public expenditure?
The process of rationalisation appears to be desirable one day to the Progressive Democrats and not to be so the next day. I have no proposals to close any of the medical schools or to take steps to reduce the number of doctors. I will qualify that by saying that we have set up an inter-departmental committee which, significantly, includes Health within its component Departments who will be contributing to the committee.
I would like to ask the Minister how she can reconcile the fact that there is a very strong demand from Irish students for places on medical courses — which has resulted in an extraordinarily high points requirement to gain a place on these medical courses — with an encouragement to bring students in from outside the country?
As I have told the Deputy we have asked the various universities to so undertake, bearing in mind that they are working within extremely limited financial allocations and they have very willingly acquiesced in that request.
Can I say to the Minister——
We must come to a conclusion on this question now.
——that we are encouraging the universities to take students in from abroad because they can pay which in turn will displace Irish students who cannot pay.
No, not at all. In fact the universities have been very forthcoming in saying that they will be able to embrace the new requirement as well as their usual complement of Irish students. It is a matter of balance and I am very appreciative of the efforts of the universities in this regard.
I am calling Question No. 4, please.