asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he has any views on the efficacy of having national lottery on-line terminals in offices where social welfare payments are made.
21.
Ceisteanna-Questions. Oral Answers. - National Lottery.
11.
asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will elaborate on the plans if any, he has, or is considering, to use national lottery on-line terminals or lines for the payment of social welfare entitlements at post offices.
45.
asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he has any views on the efficacy of having national lottery on-line terminals in offices where social welfare payments are made.
48.
asked the Minister for Social Welfare if, in view of the obvious dangers, he has any intention of withdrawing social welfare payments from post offices where national lottery on-line computers are installed.
49.
(Limerick East) asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will disclose the discussions, if any, he has had with An Post regarding their intentions of installing national lottery on-line terminals in post offices; whether the possible use of such terminals for the purposes of social welfare payments is being considered; if any safeguards are being considered in the event of such use; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
59.
asked the Minister for Social Welfare, if he will elaborate on the plans he has, or is considering, to use national lottery on-line terminals or lines for the payment of social welfare entitlements at post offices.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 11, 21, 45, 48, 49 and 59 together.
The Department have an advanced programme of computerisation which is intended to link all the Department's local and headquarters offices on a computerised network. This is being designed with a view to providing a more modern, efficient and effective service for social welfare claimants througout the country.
The level of investment necessary is, of course, quite considerable and discussions are held from time to time with other organisations such as health boards, FÁS, the banks, Telecom Éireann and An Post to ensure the most effective deployment of resources. Discussions have been held with An Post in relation to the services at present provided in the handling of pensions, child benefit and unemployment payments at post offices.
The use of national lottery terminals for social welfare payments is not and has not been envisaged. Furthermore, I understand, that the lottery terminals are not designed for dispensing payments and that their network of data lines would not be available for sharing with other organisations for security reasons.
The development of the Department's computerised systems will make possible a wide degree of flexibility in the ways in which the Department pay their claimants. Possibilities, such as payment into bank or post office accounts, will allow movement away from payment by cash which is done at most local offices and which undoubtedly presents certain security risks. The network of post offices throughout the country provides acceptable, convenient and efficient payment outlets for large numbers of beneficiaries. Many of these offices are combined or associated with retail outlets. It is not considered that the provision of lottery facilities in these outlets should give rise to any special concern about the interests of social welfare claimants. However, I am concerned about future possible developments and difficulties which might arise for some individuals and their families. I have instructed my Department to keep this matter under review.
Will the Minister rule out categorically the payment of social welfare benefits at post offices where there will be national lottery terminals?
As I have said quite categorically, the use of the national lottery terminals is not envisaged, nor has it been envisaged. I think I have made that quite clear. The Deputy is further asking me to say at this stage that, if a post office is using these terminals, we shall not make use of that post office for our purposes. The Deputy will realise that a great deal of our business is done through An Post. All I can say at this stage is that I shall be keeping this matter under review and would be concerned about future possible development in that regard.
Would the Minister not accept that it is tantamount to paying social welfare benefits in betting offices to pay them in post offices where there will be these lottery machines which will be money suckers? Would the Minister urge An Post not to use post offices for national lottery machines because of the obvious temptations to those who receive their payments in those post offices?
I have certainly conveyed already my concern about this matter and shall convey also the concern of Members of the House.
The Minister has refused to take a very clear stand at this point. Here we are allowing An Post to develop plans for putting on-line terminals in post offices throughout the country, the very point at which the great bulk of social welfare recipients receive their social welfare benefits. Is the Minister not already aware of the serious problems many people are having in trying to live on their social welfare payments? Is he not aware of the awful temptations there are in peoples' way at the moment and would he not agree that it is wholly unsuitable that there should be these one armed bandits in post offices?
As the Deputy will be aware, for some time lottery tickets of various kinds have been available in most shops and post offices, so that many of the temptations and facilities which he mentions are available already. I would be concerned, and have expressed this, about the new methods which may be operated by An Post. I shall certainly be keeping that matter under review.
One might as well ask Terry Rogers to pay out social welfare benefits if this is going to be allowed to happen. It is a totally unacceptable development.
I have allowed the Deputy to ventilate his point of view.
It is totally unacceptable to have these one armed bandits right beside where the payments are made.
This is now leading to arguments and repetition.
Certainly, where such problems arise I will be prepared to take measures——
The Minister is waffling.
——to protect individuals and families by alternative methods of payment.
Some 2,200 alternative sources of payment? I am completely disappointed by the answers of the Minister and wish to give notice of my intention to raise this matter on the Adjournment tonight.
I shall communicate with the Deputy.