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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 22 Mar 1988

Vol. 379 No. 3

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Pupil-Teacher Ratios.

10.

asked the Minister for Education if, in view of the unique nature of Mount Temple comprehensive school, Dublin 3 which draws its pupils from diverse social, economic and religious backgrounds, and the fact that the teacher numbers in the school have already decreased significantly since 1982-1983, she will exempt the school from the planned further reduction in teacher numbers; and if she will make a statement on the matter.

24.

asked the Minister for Education if her attention has been drawn to the fact that schools (details supplied) in Dublin 11 will between them lose nine teachers under the new pupil/teacher ratio for the vocational sector, despite the fact that the pupil numbers will not decline; if, in view of the special needs of the area, she will make arrangements for the teacher numbers in these schools to be maintained; and if she will make a statement on the matter.

25.

asked the Minister for Education if she considers that the major cuts being implemented in the vocational education system are consistent with the commitment given by the Government in the Programme for National Recovery to encourage and foster the participation of the disadvantaged at all levels of education, in view of the fact that the VEC system is non-selective in its students and provides a high standard of education to all students, including those from socially disadvantaged backgrounds; and if she will make a statement on the matter.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 10, 24 and 25 together.

The Government's commitment to catering for the educational needs of the disadvantaged is evidenced by the continuing provision in this year's budget for the maintenance of literacy programmes and prison and traveller education under the aegis of the vocational educational committees. My Department have also acknowledged on an on-going basis the involvement of vocational schools with disadvantaged pupils by consistently allocating to the vocational sector over the last nine years the substantial majority of remedial and special class teacher posts, and my Department will maintain that provision again in 1988.

In accordance with a resolution passed by Dáil Éireann on 9 March a meeting of the central review committee under the Programme for National Recovery is to be convened in order to examine the implications of the decision to increase the pupil-teacher ratio in the vocational, community and comprehensive school sector. The Deputies will appreciate that it would be inappropriate for me to comment further pending the completion of that examination.

Questions Nos. 10 and 24 relate specifically to three schools. In view of the particular needs of the schools referred to, Mount Temple, Scoil Íde and Coláiste Eóin, will the Minister accept that they should not be affected by the loss of teachers as proposed?

I note the Deputy's concern. My answer was of a general nature because these are the type of schools which were debated here last week and were subsequently the subject of a vote. The vote was in favour of recommending these provisions to the review committee. That is to be the position. The concerns of Deputy De Rossa and Deputy McCartan in those areas will be noted.

In regard to the Minister's reply and with reference to the central review committee and their projected meeting can she tell us whether, in the meantime, she is in a position to give an assurance to the educational authority concerned, in this case Dublin VEC, and also to others, that the status quo will be maintained and that no changes will take place until the central review committee have completed their work?

The meeting of the central review committee is the subject matter of a Priority Question which we will reach later. I do not want to infringe on that question. The Dáil, by a very big majority, agreed to an amendment in that respect. I would not be free to enter into a discussion on the workings of the central review commitee seeing that they have not yet met.

I understand that the change in the ratios will bring about a loss of teachers and that this has been communicated to the vocational education authorities by way of circular from the Minister's Department.

If it is not the case that it has been indicated by way of circular may we take it that the Minister's proposals for changes in the ratios in the vocational sector are in abeyance until the central review committee have completed their work?

Let me put it quite clearly, no circular has issued to the vocational education committees this year. No such circular on the allocation of teachers for the vocational education committees would fall due to be issued until at least the end of April and therefore no circular is in circulation. That is the answer to that question. Secondly, until the central review committee meet it would be quite wrong of me to decide on what they should and should not do. I do not want to infringe on the Priority Question which we will take later on on that issue.

Can the Minister tell us when the central review committee will make their report and whether the findings of that report will be discussed in this House?

The committee have not met yet and I must repeat once again that that is the subject of a Priority Question. I cannot say when they will be in position to give their report.

Will the Minister give an assurance that the central review committee will give their findings before the end of April or at latest by the end of May?

I am sure the Deputies concerned will be notified.

A final supplementary from Deputy De Rossa.

In regard to Questions Nos. 10 and 24 which relate specifically to Mount Temple comprehensive school, to Scoil Íde and Coláiste Eóin, is the Minister aware that the loss of teachers in those schools will result without doubt in a loss of subjects because of the fact that the classrooms cannot take more pupils? You cannot increase the size of classes because the classrooms are restricted in size. Apart from that it would be totally unsuitable to increase the size of the classes anyhow. Coláiste Eóin and Scoil Íde will lose nine teachers under the Minister's proposed pupil-teacher ratio and this will result in a loss of classes, a reduction in class times, in greater numbers of unsupervised class periods and in a whole range of other losses for the pupils concerned. The Minister must ensure that whatever arrangements are made the losses will not fall on the heads of the pupils in these schools.

I am sure that what Deputy De Rossa has said will be considered by the central review committee.

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