asked the Minister for Tourism and Transport the progress, if any, he has made at EC level in obtaining permission for Irish hauliers to have lorry trailer units waiting at continental sea ports for delivery of goods within the member states at which the goods are landed; and his views on whether the present system whereby Irish hauliers must transport the lorry and driver with the trailer unit is adding greatly to the cost of Irish products.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Haulage Operations.
23.
The type of operation described by the Deputy comes within the definition of cabotage, i.e. point-topoint haulage within another member state. At present this type of operation is not permitted within the member states of the EC. The EC Commission has submitted proposals to the Council of Transport Ministers aimed at introducing cabotage. Progress has been slow, however, because some member states have serious reservations about its introduction.
Until a satisfactory resolution can be reached at EC level on the cabotage issue, the type of operation described by the Deputy cannot be introduced, even though it would add to some extent to the overall cost-effectiveness of Irish haulage operations.
My understanding of cabotage is slightly different from the Minister's. I thought that where an Irish haulier wanted to collect at a point in Europe and deliver to another European country that was primarily cabotage. What I am speaking about is the way things operate at the moment directly from Ireland as base country into Europe. What progress has been made on the cabotage issue? The Minister has indicated that it has been slow, but have any proposals of any description been agreed?
I must confess to the Deputy that I, too, when I first got the question, thought that the definition of cabotage was as the Deputy said. I double checked it and, in fact, it is regarded as cabotage within the meaning of that word within the European Community. It is true that no progress has been made because many people see it as a grave threat to their business. Some of our own haulier associations are very much opposed to it.
Would the Minister agree that liberal Ministers like himself are not able to persuade a lot of conservative Ministers within the EC such as those in Germany where even local internal hauliers cannot get into the market? How does the Minister see this coming to fruition? Have there been any agreements on rights of establishment within the EC countries by the Irish hauliers.?
To take the latter part of the question first, the right of establishment is guaranteed by the Treaty of Rome. Needless to say, in various areas of economic life it has to be paced. I would be reluctant to comment on the conservatism or liberalism of the Ministers in other EC countries. Suffice it to say that many of them have serious problems. For example, the country which was mentioned by the Deputy which provides autobahns for the rest of Europe does not charge any tolls but when their hauliers are in other countries they are often charged tolls sometimes in excess of those charged to native hauliers. There are problems of harmonisation of taxes, fuel costs and so on. All these are under discussion at the moment. It is true that at the last Council of Ministers meeting we reached an almost unanimous decision — one out of the 12 objected — to interim arrangements to carry us up to 1992. We are having a meeting in Germany in the near future and I would hope that we might get agreement on what was almost agreed the last time. If we do, it will benefit our hauliers very significantly and it will be a step on the road to full liberalisation.
I can understand what the Minister is saying. I am glad the Minister has mentioned 1992, because this question very much looks down that road. Whether we like it or not, or whether we do or do not like to comment on people in other countries, we must get agreement from this country's point of view. Has any progress been made on agreement and on recognition of the island states in the EC? We are faced with extraordinary difficulties in this whole transport area. What specific proposals is the Minister trying to get approved to improve our position?
I can assure the Deputy — and this is one of the agreeable surprises of the EC — that as far as Ireland is concerned there is, I am not saying a universal, but an almost universal attempt to make special provisions for us. This is a reality with regard, for example, to air transport where we, in company with Portugal, obtained special concessions. In regard to the package which I mentioned a moment ago, if we had got that through, all hauliers who have applied for international licences in Ireland would be satisfied. That I would regard as a significant step forward in the liberalisation of road transport.
Finally, does the Minister accept that we must have some agreement before 1992? We must be able to move into the areas we want to move into. It is no use waking up in 1992 and being faced with an onslaught. Even if there is not agreement throughout Europe on the whole package, we must seek agreement, from our point of view, to give us opportunities as soon as possible to start operating that system. Does the Minister think that there will be any progress in this regard within the next 12 months? Is he hopeful that even Ireland's position can start to move forward?
Germany holds the Presidency at the moment. I am confident that before a month, let alone a year, we shall have made the significant advance that I have indicated to the House already.
That disposes of questions, both ordinary and nominated for priority, for today.
Sitting suspended at 3.40 p.m. and resumed at 3.45 p.m.