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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 26 Apr 1988

Vol. 379 No. 9

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Pro-Rata Pensions.

23.

asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will outline the position under the recently enacted Social Welfare Act, 1988 of a number of retired supervisors and inspectors from CIE who on promotion to that rank became superannuated staff and were not eligible to make contributions to social insurance thereafter; his views on whether this category of men are at a major disadvantage compared to several other categories who with possibly as little as ten years' contributions can get a full or near full old age contributory pension; in the circumstance his views on whether the minimum average contributions requirement of 20 should be waived in this case and a pro-rata pension paid depending on the annual average contributions in each case made by the men between 1953 and the date of retirement; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

16.

asked the Minister for Social Welfare the cost of applying the recommendations of the Commission on Social Welfare on pro rata pensions to the insurance group termed the mixed insurance group in that report.

60.

asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he has received representations on behalf of CIE bus inspectors who from 1966 to 1970 ceased being social welfare contributors but resumed paying contributions in 1974; if CIE inspectors can opt to have the average contributions for entitlements to social welfare benefits; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 23, 16 and 60 together.

The persons concerned were liable for social insurance contributions at a modified rate which covered them for widow's and orphan's pension and deserted wife's benefit. They were not covered for retirement and old age contributory pension on the grounds that they were covered under their company pension scheme.

Prior to becoming salaried staff of the company they would have been paying social insurance contributions at the standard rate and covered for the full range of social insurance benefits, but their entitlement to retirement and old age contributory pension would depend on whether they have a sufficient number of contributions at the standard rate prior to becoming salaried staff to qualify them. Representations have been made that special arrangements should be made to cover the situation of persons who do not qualify for social insurance pension in this situation.

The arrangements made in section 30 of the Social Welfare Act 1988 relate to a specific group of people who were removed from social insurance cover prior to 1974 because of the operation of the remuneration limit for social insurance and who came back into insurance in April 1974 when the limit was abolished. These arrangements do not cover the situation of persons with gaps in insurance as a result of moving from full to modified social insurance cover. This is an inevitable feature of any system where there are different levels of cover for people in different types of employment. The whole question of the level of pension cover under the social insurance system and the appropriate relationship with occupational pension schemes will be examined by the National Pensions Board in the context of their examination of pensions policy as a whole and the problem of "mixed" insurance will be considered in that context.

The Commission on Social Welfare recommended that persons in this situation should be granted pro rata pensions on similar lines to people affected by the remuneration limit subject to an overall limit on the total pension payable. This was proposed, in the context of the Commission's recommendation that all employed persons, including public sector employees, should in future be fully covered for social insurance pensions. Information on the cost of applying the recommendations of the Commission in this area is not available as there are no firm figures on the numbers of people affected now or likely to be affected in the future.

The provision made in the Social Welfare Act, 1988 for people affected by the remuneration limit will result in an additional cost of over £2 million a year in the initial years and a total cost, over a 30-year period, of some £22 million at current rates. Some 1,250 people will benefit under the arrangements.

Because we are dealing with a small number of semi-State employees who because they were efficient enough to be promoted to supervisory or inspectorate rank would the Minister agree they are now being deprived of the benefits of their contributions in a way that other employees of the same employer are not on account of the 1974 regulations? Because of the small number involved and the deep injustice felt by those now on pension, would the Minister not agree that some concession should be made, by way of granting them a pension pro rata with their average contributions, from the time they commenced work, or from 1953, whichever is the earlier, until such time as they became superannuated?

As I have explained, the basic difference, in the case of the people concerned, was that they went outside the scope of the social insurance scheme whereas the "mixed" insurance people remained within the system though at a different level of cover. Therefore, the people covered by the recent pro rata arrangements were very specific and clearcut. I am examining this other group but they are much more difficult to define because their employment does not apply only to the occupation the Deputy has in mind. Their extent is not clear and I am endeavouring to have it ascertained. I might assure the Deputy that it is something I will be examining in the future.

I feel sure I will have the co-operation of Deputy Jim Mitchell. Time is running out and I want to dispose of the three remaining questions, one of which is the Deputy's question. There are two other Deputies wishing to intervene and I want to deal with them also. Therefore I will permit a very brief supplementary from Deputy J. Mitchell.

Will the Minister come forward in, say, a month's time with the numbers involved — because there can be very few indeed involved — with a view to granting some concession to this minority which has been discriminated against?

I might reiterate the assurance I have given the Deputy already, that is that I will be examining this matter in the coming months when I will ascertain what can be done about it.

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