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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 26 Apr 1988

Vol. 379 No. 9

Adjournment Debate. - Illegal Exportation of Bronze Age Sword.

Deputy Enright gave me notice of his intention to raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of the alleged export of a Bronze Age sword.

I am thankful to you for allowing me an opportunity to discuss in Dáil Éireann the whole question of the illegal exportation from Ireland of historic objects which are so much a part of our culture and tradition. This illegal trafficking of works of art and historic artefacts and objects has been going on for many years. On occasions the staff of the National Museum of Ireland, or some other interested person, discovers that an historic item is for sale and it is then brought to the attention of the media. It is very likely that those items which are brought to the attention of the public form only the tip of the iceberg in relation to the amount of artefacts and objects of historical importance which are being smuggled out of the country.

Tomorrow, in London, a bronze sword believed to date as far back as from 1,200 B.C. to 700 B.C. goes under the auctioneer's hammer in Christies in London. My interest in this sword is that it is described as "Irish" in the auctioneer's catalogue and that it may have been exported illegally from this country.

Christies have refused to divulge to the National Museum of Ireland details of the name and address of the vendor, claiming confidentiality. The staff of the National Museum of Ireland are concerned that this historic sword may have been exported illegally from Ireland and without the necessary licence furnished. Legitimate information on this matter should be furnished by Christies to the National Museum of Ireland. Christies have not been forthcoming with this information and they have failed to reply to very reasonable and legitimate questions. Have they something to hide?

It is my view that when dealers fail to reply to legitimate questions regarding archaeological objects, which are protected by legislation passed by Dáil Éireann, the United Kingdom Government should compel those dealers to furnish the detailed information being sought. In the case of this particular Irish bronze sword dating from the period 1,200 B.C. to 700 B.C. it is not the monetary value that is so serious, rather it is the principle that the body charged by the Parliament of this country with responsibility for looking after such matters should be refused full details by the auctioneers.

In all instances where the National Museum of Ireland have genuine reason to believe that archaeological objects have been illegally smuggled out of Ireland, without licence, and are then publicly offered for sale and where relevant information is refused, the Irish Government should take action. The matter should then be pursued by the Irish Government at governmental level with the country involved. Where it is deemed appropriate the sale of the item should be prohibited and the article impounded in the country in question until satisfactory explanations are provided.

The history, culture and tradition of neighbouring and friendly countries must be respected. We have such a duty and such a responsibility. I would expect and call upon all other neighbouring and friendly countries to respect also our history, our culture and our tradition in these matters. The Government must give this matter urgent attention.

Among the items which are believed to have been smuggled out of Ireland, without the necessary licences being granted, were a bronze axe and a stone mace which were formerly in the Limerick Museum and which were sold in Slane, County Meath, in 1980. In 1984 a collection of Irish antiquities was offered for sale by Sotheby's in London. They included three Celtic bronze bowls and two decorated Celtic bridle bits which were part of the harness of a pair of horses drawing a Celtic war chariot. I am not going to put a price on these items but they are very valuable. It is believed that no licences were ever granted for the export of any of them.

The Fine Gael Party are seriously concerned at these events. I am equally and seriously concerned and upset by the fact that the directors of the three principal cultural organisations are resigning. They are the Director of the National Museum, Dr. Brendán Ó Ríordáin, Mr. Homan Potterton of the National Gallery and Mr. Michael Hewsen of the National Library.

I should like to draw to the attention of the Minister of State that the director of the National Museum was asked why he was retiring and the reason he gave was that after 33 years, he was tired of the persistent neglect of the museum by successive Governments. In times of financial cutbacks it is a serious matter that our three principal cultural organisations are to be left without their directors. I ask the Minister of State to ensure that a replacement is found for Dr. Brendán Ó Ríordáin or perhaps, even more important, that he is asked to stay on in this position.

I gave the Deputy authority to raise a specific matter and I would be grateful if he would not now widen the scope of the debate. The alleged export of a Bronze Age sword is the primary subject matter of the question.

I appreciate your ruling a Cheann Comhairle. My reason for raising the matter is that in the National Museum we have a director of high calibre in Dr. Ó Ríordáin.

I am concerned that reference is being made to persons outside the House in that fashion.

I understand the point you are making a Cheann Comhairle. I raise the point because I note with regret the resignations of Mr. Brendán Ó Ríordáin, Mr. Potterton and Mr. Hewsen. They have contributed greatly to our cultural development and I note with regret their resignations which are a grevious loss to us all.

I put it to the House that we must take serious note of the fact that many of our priceless possessions are being smuggled out of the country. The National Monuments Act was updated by the Minister who brought in some very important amendments and increased the penalties for offences. In addition to increasing the penalties, the Government must take serious action at inter-governmental level to ensure that neighbouring countries will respect our history, tradition and culture and that when items are smuggled out of the country they are not allowed to be displayed for sale at public auction. When this is brought to the attention of the country in question by our Government these objects should not be allowed to be sold. We should raise this point at every possible level and people should be aware and conscious of the scope of the problem.

Our Government should make statements and involve themselves at inter-governmental level so that other Governments will be aware of the deep feelings of the Irish people on this matter. They should be made aware that Irish people are fully opposed to illegal and sordid trafficking in these objects which are being stolen and then smuggled out of the country without a licence and sold for gain outside Ireland. This is part of our history and culture and it would be grevious neglect on our part if we were to sit back and do nothing. We, in this House are charged with responsibility in this matter. I am aware that the Garda are investigating many other matters but it is important that every Irish citizen should be seriously concerned about this whole question.

I ask the Minister of State to ensure that all possible resources are provided to the National Museum to help them to study and catalogue these objects and to ascertain where they are. Unless they are provided with the necessary finance we will lose out and generations to follow will accuse us of failing in our duty. The subject matter of the debate tonight is one example of such priceless objects and we have a duty to protect them. I put it to the Minister that he has a duty in this instance to use the full resources of his Department to ensure that the staff in the National Museum are provided with resources.

I have referred to the National Gallery, the National Museum and the National Library. Many generous Irish people are prepared to donate articles to them and it is essential that they should have the scope and facilities to ensure that the items donated are looked after safely and properly and maintained for future generations. Those facilities are not available at present and that is why the directors have resigned.

The Deputy is straying again from the subject matter of the question.

I will give Deputy Noonan a few minutes of my time.

(Limerick East): The case has been very fully made by my colleague, Deputy Enright. I have a particular interest in the information he has provided about the bronze axe and the stone mace which were, as he said, put on sale in Slane, County Meath, in 1980. I understand they were part of the Dunraven collection which was on exhibition in Limerick prior to that date. If the Minister has information on the previous and subsequent history of those two items I would like him to provide it to the House. The case has been made and I await the Minister's reply with interest.

I thank Deputy Enright sincerely for raising this important matter which is one of a series that have been raised in this House and are continually being raised outside the House. I also thank Deputy Noonan for his contribution.

The National Museum of Ireland recently became aware that a bronze sword, described as Irish, was being offered for sale by Christies, Auctioneers, London. Christies were approached by the museum who requested further information about the object. A representative of Christies has denied newspaper reports that the object was exported since the National Monuments Act came into force in 1930. The National Museum will continue to make active inquiries about it. These inquiries are currently under active consideration and this will be continued.

If these inquiries indicate that it has been illegally exported, proceedings will be instituted against the person or persons involved.

The National Monuments (Amendment) Act, 1987 — which I had the pleasure of bringing to the Dáil — introduced up-dated penalties for illegal export of archaeological objects and dramatically improved the State's position in this area. Section 17 of that Act provides for the following penalties in relation to illegal export of archaeological objects:

Any person who illegally exports an archaeological object shall be liable—

(a) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both the fine and imprisonment, or

(b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding £50,000 or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to both the fine and the imprisonment.

These very strong measures have been passed by the Houses of the Oireachtas in the interest of preserving our heritage. The National Museum has been working in close co-operation with the Department of the Taoiseach, the Office of Public Works and the Garda Síochána to prevent illegal trading in archaeological objects and considerable success is being achieved in this area. The position is being reviewed regularly to ensure that the intense pressure on certain groups and persons who are engaged in such activities will be maintained.

The Supreme Court decision in December 1987 in relation to the Derrynaflan hoard has considerably clarified and strengthened the legal position of the State in relation to similar such discoveries. It is hoped to present the detailed proposals for legislation required to deal with the many complex issues raised by that decision to the Government in the near future.

During the course of this debate, Deputies Enright and Noonan referred to various objects and artefacts which may have been exported from this country, in particular to items from the Dunraven collection sold by Christies in London in 1980. These objects were sold despite strenuous representations from the staff of the National Museum and doubts exist about their authenticity.

Two objects were acquired in London by Lord McAlpine which had been sold in Slane. Although these objects were illegally exported, Lord McAlpine maintains that he was not the exporter and, therefore, did not break the law. The National Museum have asked him to apply for export licences since March 1988 but no response has yet been received.

A further reference has been made during the course of this debate to a collection of Celtic bridle bits and bronze bowls offered for sale by Sothebys in 1985. These objects were identified by the National Museum as being Irish and following intense pressure including adverse publicity from the Irish authorities, they failed to reach their reserve and were withdrawn from the sale. If the National Museum investigation on this or any other matter uncovers proof of illegal export, then the matter can be raised with the British authorities and if we have substantial evidence we can raise that matter through the relevant authorities here with the British authorities.

Reference has been made to three very honourable people in the public service here who have opted for voluntary retirement. I do not think that this House could interfere with the right of any person in the public service, or indeed the private service, to take any option in life at any given time. I should like to put on record the appreciation of the Government, and indeed of this House, to those three gentlemen for the work which they have done in their respective positions. My fellow countyman in the National Museum, Mr. Ó Ríordáin, is a man who has given tremendous service to this country and I am sure that in a private capacity he will continue to do so, as I am sure will also his other two colleagues. I am pleased to be able to tell the House that the posts of directors of the National Museum and the National Library will be advertised shortly. The National Gallery post will be considered at the appropriate time when the vacancy occurs.

I want to assure the House that every possible measure will be taken to stamp out the illicit trade in Irish antiquities in order to safeguard our rich heritage for future generations. I condemn out of hand the illegal efforts of anybody in this country or outside it to try to extricate the great artefacts and objects of Irish heritage and tradition from this country. I commend the Deputies for their vigilance and interest and pay tribute to the staff of the National Museum. Collectively, we are confident that eventually we will find a solution which will ensure that these objects will not find their way illegally out of this country in the future.

The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 27 April 1988.

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