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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 15 Jun 1988

Vol. 382 No. 2

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Army and Air Corps Apprentices.

15.

asked the Minister for Defence if he will make a statement on the proposed 50 per cent cut in the basic rate of pay of first year Army and Air Corps apprentices; and whether £68.76 per week is a justified wage for apprentices entering the Army and Air Corps.

49.

asked the Minister for Defence if there are plans to restructure the workload of first year apprentices in the Army and Air Corps; and if, following a 50 per cent cut in basic pay, there will be a 50 per cent cut in hours of duty.

(Limerick West): I propose to take Questions Nos. 15 and 49 together. Revised weekly rates of pay will be applied to the intake of Army and Air Corps apprentices in 1988 and subsequent years. The revised rates are as follows: 1st year, £68.76; 2nd year, £95.75; 3rd year, £131.72; and 4th year, £158.70.

The apprentices are recruited in the age bracket 16-18 years and will be given the same training as existing apprentices. Apprentices are provided, at a moderate charge, with accommodation, food and clothing. The revised rates of pay are considerably higher than those payable for civilian apprentices.

Will the Minister explain how he reconciles the decision to reduce pay rates by 50 per cent with the terms of the Programme for National Recovery as agreed between the social partners, including the employers and the unions? Under what paragraph of that agreement has he decided to reduce the rates of pay by 50 per cent?

(Limerick West): As I said, Army and Air Corps apprentices are recruited in the age bracket 16 to 18 years. There are approximately 5,000 applications for between 50 and 100 apprenticeships in the Army and Air Corps each year. In order to take account of the fact that military apprentices are liable for some military duties during their training, the revised rates have been fixed higher than the rate for apprentices in other State employment. For example, the rates which apply to apprentices in local authorities, the Office of Public Works, the ESB and CIE are as follows: in the first year in a local authority it is £53.96, in the ESB it is £52.93, in CIE it is £50.28, as against £68.76 in the military establishments. In the second year in the Office of Public Works and the local authorities it is £80.95, in the ESB it is £79.40, in CIE it is £75.42 and in the Air Corps it is £95.75, and so on. As the Deputy can see, taking into account the duties involved and because of a certain amount of military training, the rates paid to Army and Air Corps Apprentices are considerably higher than those paid to apprentices in other State employment.

Would the Minister like to answer my supplementary question?

(Limerick West): As I said——

Please do not say it again. Would the Minister answer my supplementary question?

(Limerick West): Unlike most civilian apprentices, including those in State employment, military apprentices are guaranteed employment on the successful completion of their training. It is important that their rate of pay be brought in line with those apprentices in other areas of the public sector.

As a member of a Cabinet who entered into a very serious agreement, the Programme for National Recovery, providing for increases in pay rates over three years, how can the Minister reconcile what he is doing with the terms of that agreement? Would be not agree that he is driving a coach and four through the terms of that agreement? If the example of the Minister or the Government is followed by other employers in the public or private sector it will cause havoc in industrial relations in future. Does the Minister not agree that reducing wage rates by 50 per cent is an atrocious example to other employers in all sectors? If employers even attempt to follow that example— and I have no doubt they will, now that the Government have given the lead—it will lead to enormous industrial relations problems.

This is a very long question.

Would the Minister address himself to my supplementary question?

(Limerick West): It was important to bring the rates of pay for apprentices in the Army and Air Corps into line with those paid to apprentices in other State employment—the Office of Public Works, the ESB and CIE. As I said, when these apprentices complete their training, unlike the apprentices in any other sector, they are guaranteed employment.

A final supplementary question.

As I have not got an answer to my supplementary questions I think I am entitled to ask a few more. First, the Minister is not comparing like with like. There is no comparison between an apprentice in private employment and an apprentice who is a fully fledged member of the Defence Forces. Other apprentices work an eight-hour day during a five-day week. A member of the Defence Forces has many other serious duties in addition to serving an apprenticeship.

A question, please.

This is being attempted because this group of employees of the State, like all other Army personnel, are prohibited from joining a trade union or an association to protect their rights. The Minister and the Government are taking advantage of that clause——

The Deputy is embarking on a statement tantamount to a speech.

——in order to reduce wages. Would the Minister agree that this would not be attempted in respect of any other group of workers in a trade union or likely to join a trade union? He is taking unfair advantage.

(Limerick West): I have said that revised rates will apply to the intake of apprentices in 1988 and subsequent years. There are approximately 5,000 apprenticeship applications each year for between 50 and 100 places in the Air Corps.

Supply and demand.

(Limerick West): Military apprentices are liable for some military duties. Therefore, their pay has been revised and fixed at a rate higher than that applicable in the other sectors I have outlined. They are guaranteed employment at the end of their apprenticeship which does not apply in other sectors.

Is the Minister saying that the increased numbers applying is justification for low wages?

The Deputy has had a good innings. That disposes of Questions for today.

Sitting suspended at 3.35 p.m. and resumed at 3.45 p.m.
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