asked the Minister for Education if her attention has been drawn to a survey (details supplied) which showed that Ireland came out bottom of the table in terms of attitude to equality of the sexes; if any special education programme or other measures aimed at countering this attitude are planned; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Equality of Sexes.
4.
The survey to which the Deputy refers found that, along with Germany and Luxembourg, public opinion in Ireland had a more stereotyped view of a woman's role. The survey indicated that attitudes lag behind our legislation. This will not be a surprise to the Deputy.
Changes in traditional attitudes are slow to come about. The implementation of non-sexist policies in the education system is a crucial dimension of the change process. The Government are, as the Deputy will be aware, already implementing such policies.
The question of equal opportunities for girls and boys in education is seen as an extremely important one. Not only is it a question of ensuring basic human rights to young people but it is of crucial economic importance in terms of employment opportunities. Accordingly, the Taoiseach has given special responsibility to this Department for the elimination of sexism and sex-stereotyping from the education system.
A working group, representative of divisions within my Department, meets regularly to monitor progress and to co-ordinate activities within the Department relating to equal opportunities in education.
Other activities which have been initiated in recent years include, inter alia, seminars for school authorities and teachers; application of the guidelines of the International Reading Association to the Department of Education examinations; revised arrangements whereby examiners of scripts can no longer identify the sex of a candidate by examination number; encouragement of principals and teachers to offer all optional subjects to boys and girls and, in particular, to offer and encourage girls to take up such subjects as physics, chemistry and technical subjects; encouragement of schools to share facilities; revised procedures for the selection and appointment of primary teachers; encouragement of post primary school authorities to implement the Code of Practice of the Employment Equality Agency; review of guidance provisions; encouragement of day-time classes for women; convening of a European Community poster competition entitled “Equal Opportunities for Girls and Boys in Education”; and awarding of grants to mature women students at third-level.
A sum of £30,000 has been allocated in 1988 towards specific projects in the equality area. These are: (i) an action research project designed to stimulate the interest and encourage the participation of girls in school activities related to the new technologies; and (ii) pilot intervention projects in physics and in chemistry which were initiated in 1985 continue to operate. While the project commenced in one region in 1985 a total of ten regions will be involved with effect from September 1988.
The Government have already acted and will continue to act in the areas of legislation which provide for equal access to employment, of equal treatment in social welfare, of positive action in training and of equal opportunity practice as an employer.
I thank the Minister for the detail of her reply. Can I ask her if, in view of the wide range of matters which she has referred to, the Department have any monitoring procedures for finding the extent to which the measures being taken are succeeding? I would also draw to her attention that there is a worrying aspect to the report referred to in the survey — that while it showed that 36 per cent of men had no confidence in women as bus drivers, 50 per cent of women had no confidence in women as bus drivers.
Could the Deputy give the percentages again?
Thirty six per cent of men had no confidence in women as bus drivers while 50 per cent of women had no confidence in women as bus drivers.
Had they confidence in men?
That clearly indicates that there are problems in how women perceive themselves.
So much for getting rid of school buses.
I do not know if we will go into that matter. We have just dealt with that question. The point raised by the Deputy is one of the huge difficulties which we face. The whole area is fraught with assumptions which cannot be relied upon because they change and because perceptions change. We cannot lay down rules and say that because we have introduced a woman on a VEC interview board it means that women would get——
Or a building society or bank.
Exactly. Even though one makes the effort in the hope that that will be the start of a spiral-out movement which will encourage more and more women, there are many areas of doubt and of further investigation to be found. I am of the opinion that the more women who get into public life and political parties at all levels — I do not mean just at cumann secretary or group secretary level — the more women who put themselves forward for local, general and European elections, the more chances there will be for that practice to spread within the system.
The Deputy also asked me a question on monitoring. There is within my Department, a special review committee for equality and equal opportunities. They meet regularly and monitor the efficiency and operations of the programmes that I outlined which are within my own Department. I constantly find that those meetings end up in the kind of discussion such as we have had today. The whole question is huge. All we can do is keep trying everything we can to increase the participation of women in all areas of life.
I have no doubt about the Minister's goodwill in this area, despite the fact that out of the 11 initiatives she mentioned in the reply, nine of them were initiated by me long before she came into office.
Well done.
Apart from what the Deputy abolished.
I am very disappointed that so little has been done since. What action does the Minister propose to take in the area of principalships of community and comprehensive schools which are directly under her control? Only 6 per cent of the principals are women and 26 per cent of the vice principals are women. What action does the Minister propose to take to improve that position? In view of the fact that not one seminar, talk, discussion or lecture has been held for the primary or post-primary inspectorate on this whole question of sexism or sex stereotyping since she came into office, what are the review group that she talked about doing and when are they going to start talking to the inspectorate who are the main people involved in this work?
The teacher in the classroom——
Who speak to the inspectorate?
The teacher in the classroom and every——
Who speak to the inspectorate?
Questions have been asked. Let us hear the Minister's reply.
I have directly given the order that every in-service course operated by my Department for primary and post-primary teachers must compulsorily contain a module showing elimination of sexism and how it can be introduced in the classroom.
I should hope so.
While I consider inspectors to be most important people, I consider that the person in the classroom is the person in direct contact with the young girl and young boy. That teacher, female or male, is the role model on whom the young child sees expressed daily, for five, six or seven hours, ideas, habits and methods of behaviour. I am very glad to say that at my expressed wish no in-service course will be held which does not contain a module aimed at eliminating sexism. I very graciously commend Deputy Hussey for the measures she took with regard to that matter and I have no hang-ups about it. Why should I? I am very pleased that she did so.
Improve on them.
As I have said, the pilot intervention project in physics and chemistry which the Deputy set up in 1985 operated in just one region. This project is enormously important for young women who want to go into any of the engineering or allied electrical professions, any of the jobs for which they will need maths and chemistry, subjects which were not taken by girls in my day. I have extended that project from one to ten areas in 1988.
No. 5, please.
I wish to ask a brief question.
A brief question from Deputy Doyle.
I would like to ask the Minister if she would consider an in-service course, a special education programme or some other measure, as the question puts it, to counter this attitude towards sexism in Ireland for her own ministerial colleagues. Is she aware that her colleague, Deputy Wilson, stated recently in a reply to a question on the advantages of televising Dáil Éireann that at least it would make the lady Deputies dress themselves up? Perhaps the Minister could start with a suitable course for her own colleagues and that would help towards resolving——
The questions directed to the Minister should be within her responsibilities.
Deputy John Wilson is a most erudite, affable and indeed excellent Minister.
I am sure he is.
I also find that Deputies of both sexes from all parties dress beautifully in this House.
Some are a little more antiquated in their attitudes to women.
Question No. 5.