Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 23 Jun 1988

Vol. 382 No. 7

Estimates, 1988. - Vote 31: Marine (Revised Estimate) (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:

That a sum not exceeding £23,124,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1988, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for the Marine, including certain services administered by that Office, and for payment of certain grants and sundry grants-in-aid.

—(Minister for the Marine).

Mr. Begley

Before we adjourned I was stitching into the record the response I got to a parliamentary question in relation to fish farming, especially the fish farming which is carried on in bays and estuaries. I have been worried that this operation could be unhygienic and could cause damage to the environment. I was alarmed to be informed by the Minister, in reply to my question about Mulroy Bay, that an anti-fouling paint containing the chemical TBT has been extensively used on fish farm cages. There is ample evidence to show that this substance can cause deformities in shell-fish. This was confirmed to me this morning by one of my researchers who rang the Department of the Marine. This immediately raises a very serious question mark about its effects on the fish in the cages. The Minister in his reply to this debate must assure us that the use of this substance is now totally prohibited and spell out for us the methods which will ensure that this paint will no longer be used and that the cages on which it was applied have been taken out of the water until they can be repainted. There are serious issues of public health involved. The public do not have much confidence that the fish produced on farms are as healthy as natural fish. It could have disastrous consequences for consumption. Furthermore, there is nothing to indicate to the consumer whether the fish that is sold is wild or farmed. There is a grave danger that any question mark about the quality of farm fish will also affect sales of wild fish and this could cause serious damage to this industry.

I have no hesitation in saying that the dangers from TBT to fish coming in contact with it are a greater risk than we face from the pollution from Sellafield. It is a problem of the most serious magnitude and the Minister must assure the public and industry that he has taken effective steps to remove this problem quickly and totally. I am also informed that large quantities of deleterious matter accumulates beneath, and to some extent within, fish cages, especially in locations that have not a swift current. Eventually that matter will find its way to the beaches and shores. Yet we have had no public health investigations as to the size of this problem, or what effect it is having on the local ecology. In addition, the question is also raised as to the health and purity of the fish in the cages, living in this polluted atmosphere. It is important for this industry that the Minister would take immediate steps to impose the highest standards so that the public can be assured of the good quality of the fish produced.

As the hare whom hounds and horns pursue pants to the place from whence first it flew, I come back to Dingle Harbour. Would the Minister tell me what is happening within his Department as far as that harbour is concerned? The response to a number of Dáil questions was that the matter was receiving consideration. Yet, Deputy O'Donoghue of his party in January gave an exclusive report to all the Kerry papers that £3 million was about to be spent on Dingle Harbour and work was to commence on 1 May. Yet in his Estimate here today the Minister says that he has something less than £1 million to spend on all our harbours. I would appreciate if the Minister would stop dangling the carrot in front of the fishermen.

Minister for the Marine (Mr. Daly)

I am not the only one. My Department have funds for that area.

Mr. Begley

Would the Minister tell us if the Department of the Marine will go ahead with this project this year? The Minister knows that the Taoiseach has taken a very great interest in this matter. He has met the harbour board a number of times, has wined and dined with them and told them that everything was in train, everything in place, ready to move at the appropriate time. I hope I have the words right.

Mr. McGinley

Before the election.

Mr. Begley

No, in the last few months. According to the Minister's Estimate today, he has not a "bob" for the harbour. Who is codding whom about Dingle Harbour?

Mr. Daly

There are other Estimates.

Mr. Begley

It has been going on since 1985. In that year there was a report before the Coalition Government and the then Minister for Fisheries, Deputy Kavanagh. He said that it would cost so much that he could not do the work. Minister Daly came along and said that it would cost £1.5 million and that he was considering the matter. Now he is looking at another report, the implementation of which will cost £3 million. It is about time the Minister told us what will happen to Dingle Harbour.

Mr. McGinley

The long finger.

Mr. Daly

The Deputy's party should have looked after Dingle Harbour long ago.

Mr. Roche

After the last contribution, I plan to be a little parochial. I am sure that I shall be forgiven for that. The arrival on the scene of the Department of the Marine was in itself a remarkable piece of progress. I recorded that in this House at the time and suggested that the establishment of the Department was progressive because it pulled together diverse strands in the whole range of nooks and crannies in the public administration body who were obstensibly dealing with the area of the marine, maritime policy and marine-related developments. The reality was that under the old system with maritime and marine matters scattered over a whole range of public service bodies, in trying to achieve progress in any area, the first difficulty that had to be faced was that of establishing who was responsible for what. There seemed to be a never ending group of public bodies that had to be addressed and dealt with before any sort of progress could be achieved in any marine related area. Happily, that has come to an end with the arrival of the Department of the Marine.

Ireland is, after all, an island nation yet our response to that fact has been quite remarkable over the generations. We have failed to see our island nation status as being anything but a problem. The reality is that that status which we enjoy is a quite remarkable advantage to be exploited, certainly to a greater degree than ever before.

It is a tragedy that in recent times such an extraordinary degree of public attention has been diverted to the rod licence issue. That issue has grabbed a ludicrous proportion of public attention and time. Opportunistic antics by the Progressive Democrats in this House last night were just one example of what I mean by grabbing the headlines for this relatively small issue. I commend Deputy McGinley for adopting what appears to be a much more rational approach and the suggestion made by that party's spokesperson that the opportunism of the Progressive Democrats was nothing other than a simple vote catching exercise before the Dáil rises for the summer recess. That appears to be a reasonable assessment of the case.

Not only was the issue handled opportunistically by certain politicians but also by certain sections of the media and I single out RTE and the programme "Morning Ireland" in this regard. Day after day, the nation was regaled with the minutiae of the so-called rod licence issue. At one time it appeared that anybody, however remotely connected with the issue, was put on that programme to give his or her views. I wonder if the same amount of air time would have been given to, perhaps, a group who were interested in arguing against the ludicrously high cost of television licences. If people stood up anywhere in this country and said that television licences are an imposition and that we are now having broadcasting beamed in from a variety of sources so that the arguments in favour of television licensing no longer hold, and that we should start cutting it out, would that argument get the same type of cover day after day if put to RTE? I somehow doubt it.

Rather than focusing on issues such as the rod licence one, we should be focusing on how the Department of the Marine can be used as a way to plough through the log-jam that for generations has impeded any real development in marine matters. We should be focusing on matters like how we develop our fish catching capacity and our capacity to process fish, to add value to it. I know that Deputy Begley dealt with some aspects of that. It is a scandal that a nation with huge marine resources should not be exploiting them. The real resource is not mythical hydrocarbon deposits under the sea but the sea itself and the fish that teem in it and the fact that we still represent one of the few areas of coastal Europe where one can actually get good, clean, quality fish. It is a scandal that we are not addressing the issue of how to add value to that resource, how to capitalise on it, how to create jobs. I know that Deputy McGinley shares an interest in these matters.

The area of aquaculture and mariculture offers us major opportunities for employment. This is the last unexplored frontier with regard to the creation of employment here. We can talk about high-tech jobs imported from time to time at huge cost in terms of industrial grants, but these jobs tend to be ephemeral. They can melt and change with the vagaries of the international market. What will not change is the demand for wholesome food and, in particular, for food from the sea. Our capacity to develop and exploit that area of aquaculture and mariculture has not been exploited and should be a matter for our attention. If radio programmes, or the media, or politicians, wish to do something constructive, surely they could focus some of their time, energy and talent on the debate in this area.

The development of Ireland's fishing fleet is another area which screams out for public attention, for public debate. We suffered a major setback — and I do not want to make a controversial political point — with the sinking of Irish Shipping. That is history. There still remains the scandal of how the families of the workers involved are still suffering. This is a difficult problem. I know that many Members on all sides of the House would wish to see that problem resolved. In the aftermath of the Irish Shipping debacle we are in the extraordinary position that, as an island nation, we must depend to a ludicrous degree on foreign-owned, foreign-flagged and foreign-manned ships to carry our exports and imports. This is an area of tremendous opportunity which has been largely and scandalously ignored.

Another area on which, I suggest, people who are seriously interested should focus attention is harbour development. There can be no doubt that many harbours require attention and there should be a coherent policy in this regard. One of the aims of the marine policy document being implemented by the Department is to pull the various and diverse strands in our marine policy together. That demands public attention and debate. If the media are seriously interested in the capacity of the nation to develop this resource, why not focus some attention and discussion on this aspect?

I mentioned shipping earlier and I want to deal with specific developments introduced by Minister Daly in the last year which have not received anything like the degree of congratulations or attention they deserve. Some years back, as a civil servant, I operated in the Department of Transport and Power, as it was then, under the terms of the old Shipping (Investment Grants) Act. It was good legislation which put some additional tonnage onto the Irish register and it meant that some additional imports and exports were carried on Irish ships. It also meant additional employment for Irish shipping workers and a tremendous amount of foreign exchange earnings for this country. It meant an increase in valuable visible exports because we were involved in trans-dealing in the Far East and other places. That all ended prematurely, including the operation of the old Shipping (Investment Grants) Act. However, this year the Minister has put in place a package of incentives in the shipping investment area that are quite unparalleled and which make Ireland one of the most attractive places in Europe — indeed, in the world — for investing cash and capital in shipping.

I have already mentioned the Shipping (Investment Grants) Act. I hope to see more resources put into that area and I am sure most Deputies share that particular concern. The Shipping (Investment Grants) Act has been used to great effect to date and I will deal with that shortly. The second major step forward which the Minister has taken has been the extension of the business expansion scheme for shipping investment and the related decision to extend the 10 per cent corporation profits tax on shipping investment profits. This package has proved to be the most imaginative ever put forward in the history of the State by any Minister with responsibility for shipping. It is an indication of the lack of generosity that stalks this land from time to time that the Minister has not received anything like his due, fair and reasonable degree of public attention and congratulations in this regard.

In the last 12 months it is not an exaggeration to say that we made more progress in shipping investment, than in the previous decade. That progress is due to Minister Daly, who earned the gratitude of the public and the congratulations of the House for his efforts. In Wicklow, Arklow Shipping have availed of the opportunity afforded by the Shipping (Investment Grants) Act and four brand new ships have been built or commissioned within the last year and put on the Irish register. The Arklow fleet has now expanded, and within the foreseeable future there will be 25 or 26 ships on the register. Employment will be provided for over 300 people and there will be great progress. If you go back two years, the prospects were gloomy. There did not seem to be anything to induce this bright, innovative and progressive young company to move in this direction, because all the pressures at that time suggested that the company should look elsewhere to register their shipping. However, because the Minister introduced this package of proposals and because he was prepared to be adventurous, to cut through red tape and to operate these proposals, a remarkable fleet is now operating out of Arklow. I want to thank the Minister for meeting Councillor John Sweeney, the chairman of the Harbour Board and myself and agreeing, after 50 years of imploring various Ministers, to make Arklow a port of registration. It was tremendous to see recently the Arklow Manor and the Arklow Marsh, two brand new vessels, coming in with “Arklow” on the bow and stern. I congratulate the Minister for making this possible.

I wish to refer briefly to marine related leisure activities. I have expressed, outside the House my incredulity at the activities of certain people in the Dún Laoghaire case. Some of them were good and well meaning, but I hope that their extraordinary attitude in regard to marine development will be changed. The developers, at my invitation, have looked at Greystones and they liked what they saw. I hope, that when the issue in Dún Laoghaire is resolved there will be a marina development in Greystones.

I should like to remind the Minister, in the most gentle manner, of the imaginative proposals before him from Arklow. He has also had proposals from Wicklow in regard to port development, and I congratulate the Minister and the Government on their decision to allow harbour development authorities to seek assistance from the European Regional Development Fund. That is progress and there are many other areas where progress should and could be recorded.

As an island nation, our maritime resources are far more extensive than our landmass. Our attitude towards the sea has been wrong because it has been based on mythology and has been negative. For generations we have failed miserably to grasp the opportunities offered by the sea and by our island status. Under this Minister I am sure we are beginning to grasp those opportunities.

Mr. McCartan

The Workers' Party take the opportunity to comment on the Minister's proposal of the adoption of the Estimate for his Department in the coming year. As has been pointed out and signalled by many of the contributions to date, the Government suggested that the establishment of the Department of the Marine would represent and herald a major departure and development in our maritime economy. One would have hoped that was so but, clearly, the indications to date are to the contrary.

In the area of the development of a fish processing industry or the industrialisation of the seas, there has been little progress of an effective nature, although The Workers' Party have called for this. The previous speaker wondered where the problem lies in regard to the non-development of our seas.

He talked about mythology, but we would need to plumb the depths of the Irish psyche to understand their attitude. The simple answer lies in abject Government failure over the years to develop economically and invest in our maritime industries. There is no need to look to mythology, to look to history, or to misconceptions, fears or misunderstandings about the sea. The answer lies in the attitude of successive Governments. There is a history of abject neglect and failure to invest in our maritime economy. Governments failed abysmally to ensure the development of a fish processing industry. If fish which leaves this country in a frozen or chilled state were properly processed it would earn us, on average, an additional £100 million per year and would create many jobs. It is shameful that this country, surrounded by some of the best fishing grounds in the world, made so little use of a great resource.

Our record is deplorable compared with other island countries such as Iceland where almost one-fifth of the population is employed in fishing or in fish processing. In this country, due to persistent neglect, fishing has made only a negligible contribution to industrial development and job creation. In 1984 we exported 90,000 tonnes of chilled or frozen fish worth approximately £39 million. If that amount had been further processed there would have been added value of some £2,000 per tonne, increasing the potential revenue to the State by £100 million and involving massive savings on some of the £40 million of processed fish products which we import.

Technology is available for the establishment of a fish processing industry. Exporting fish simply chilled or frozen makes as little economic sense as exporting cattle on the hoof. We have in Greencastle one of the best and most advanced training schools in Europe for fishermen. While the State, through Greencastle, is providing highly qualified fishermen, it is not providing them with the opportunities to apply their qualifications. One of the ironies of some development in the area is the fact that putting more boats on the sea through investment in BIM schemes without raising the quotas for fishermen is leading to a loss of employment on many boats. The more boats we put out without getting the quota levels changed the more there will be a reduction in the take per trawler with a consequent reduction in the manning levels of trawlers. One of the Minister's main responsibilities, if we are to increase our fleet, is to ensure that our entitlement to increase quotas is established firmly within the EC. It is a matter of public knowledge and history now that we went to Europe at the quota negotiation stage with figures that were pulled out of the sky, without any serious reference to the potential of the Irish Sea, at a time when our fishing industry was in a stage of retarded infant development. It is a basis of negotiation that has been used time and again in arguments against us and something must be done to correct the ground rules that we laid in the initial quota arguments so that we will be given a fair proportion. We should put forward the argument that our fishing industry represents perhaps one of, if not the greatest single industry that this country is capable of producing and this must be brought home to our EC partners and concessions must be won to renegotiate the bedrock rules upon which quotas are fixed.

In relation to harbour development, time and again I have raised with the Minister the whole question of Howth Harbour. I raise this not just because it is in the Dublin North-East constituency but because Howth Harbour is in the midst of the single greatest concentration of population and it is a vital and important feature of our developing fish industry. The Minister has constantly responded, and it is conceded that large sums of money have been invested in that harbour. However, Howth Harbour has been brought literally 75 per cent of the way. The facilities there are second to none around the country, but when one compares its proximity to the single greatest concentration of population in the country and its easy access to some of the best international sea and air connections, its importance is way ahead of any other fishery development facility on this island. The Minister must go the other 25 per cent of the way by investing further money here. The money invested will redouble many times in benefit to the industry as a whole and in job creation in a very black spot of unemployment in the north side of this city.

There are no industrial jobs arising from the many millions of pounds that have been put into the development of Howth Harbour. A very fine fishing fleet is coming in there and landing their catch on the pier to be collected, salted or frozen and brought into the fish market over 12 miles away to be sold, or taken rapidly down the east coast on to the ferries and on to Europe, England or wherever. That is an unsatisfactory arrangement. If the State is not prepared to commit itself to investment in this area it must actively, through the IDA or some other agency, find a processor or the means whereby with very little capital expenditure very good industries can be based directly or close to the pier, to make Howth a working harbour. Howth Harbour at the moment is a leisure harbour but the jobs on shore that such a scale of investment warrants have not been created. There are many other issues about Howth Harbour which I have raised with the Minister and I have no doubt that we will pursue those issues when we and the Howth Fisheries Association meet with the Minister as promised in the near future.

A second feature of our island status is the need for us to maintain and have under State control a national shipping fleet. The failure of Irish Shipping has been a serious blow to the strategic development of our economy. It is essential that this country should have a national shipping fleet. Without it we are vulnerable. This country already depends to a large extent on foreign fishing for exports and imports. It is only a few years since the Falklands crisis, when the Thatcher Government requisitioned a large portion of the British merchant fleet, including both car and cargo ferries, for military purposes in the Falklands. At that time we suffered heavily as a result of that demand and it showed our vulnerability as a nation without recourse to a national shipping fleet. We must bear this is mind. The Minister has indicated time and again in this House that he and his Government are conscious of this fact and have made the point that in times of industrial dispute amongst foreign carriers, it is difficult for Irish producers and exporters to survive without a proper shipping fleet.

In referring to the collapse of Irish Shipping one cannot but mention the very sad position of the former employees who only two days ago returned to the gates of Leinster House to remind us that their problems in relation to compensation and in relation to a fair deal with regard to the years of service they gave the State in that company have not yet been resolved. The matter last arose in this House on 3 May when the Minister indicated that he was in the concluding stages of addressing the very complex legal issues which he suggested surrounded the whole question of compensating the employees of Irish Shipping for their long years of service. These issues have to be resolved and I would ask the Minister, when responding, to indicate when these issues will be brought to a conclusion. This issue has been pursued relentlessly inside and outside the House. We have been told that the investigation is ongoing and we pursued it to the stage when in May of this year we were told we were reaching a conclusion. It is time the Minister told us what those conclusions are and when the staff of Irish Shipping will eventually be compensated.

An issue which was raised recently, because of the tragic death off the Donegal coast of two salmon fishermen — to whose families we extend very deep regret — was that of safety aboard our fishing vessels. I understand from a recent announcement that the regulations to be introduced will not include trawlers working around our coasts or registered at our ports. This is a matter of major concern. It also concerns vessels under 40 metres. The Minister has indicated that regulations will be introduced. Steps must be taken to ensure that safety aboard the smaller craft is included in the regulations and that crews who go out, even in the fairest of weather, tackling nets, cargo and catch, all of considerable weight, are probably equipped for all eventualities and not just eventualities that arise from a major storm. The need to carry safety equipment must be brought home through a firm Government hand by regulation and insistence on implementation of the law.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy has one minute remaining.

Mr. McCartan

I want to make a point to the previous speaker who suggested that the fisheries rod licence issue should be left aside. He wondered whether the media would give the same attention to the issue if it was in the context of television licences. Television licences were introduced by common agreement after negotiation and after long debate in this House on the legislation. It is not an equal comparison to make. The rod licences were very hastily introduced, very poorly thought out and although the intent is good, the whole question of State involvement and development of our fisheries is essential. It is clear that the measure has not received widespread support and it imposes an obligation on the Minister — as he has done in the Dún Laoghaire context — to go back, negotiate, discuss and review the matter. It is a difficult task for the Minister but it is clear that the legislation will not work. A via media must be sought and I have no doubt it will be forthcoming in meaningful negotiations. I hope it will be resolved without delay.

Mr. Daly

The Deputy will get some support from the people here.

Mr. McCartan

In regard to the Minister's review of the Dún Laoghaire marina proposals, Dún Laoghaire Corporation have a proposal with his Department for over 18 months to apply to Europe for capital funding for a survey of the harbour, its needs and development. That is the only way a facility as important to the people of Dún Laoghaire, and indeed to the people of the city and country, can be properly developed in the interests of all.

Mr. McGinley

Tá áthas orm deis a bheith agam labhairt ar an Meastachán seo do Roinn na Mara, mar tá a fhios againn go léir chomh tábhachtach agus atá tionscal na hiascaireachta do chúrsaí eacnamaíochta na tíre seo agus do chúrsaí eacnamaíochta an chontae len a mbainim féin, Dún na nGall. Sílim go bhfuil níos mó teacht isteach ó iascaireacht sa chontae sin ná ó aon tionscal eile.

Tá féidireachtaí móra ag tionscal na hiascaireachta nár éirigh linn iad a bhaint amach go fóill. Ceann des na féidireachtaí ba chóir dúinn a chur i gcrích ná forbairt níos nó a dhéanamh ar an tionscal seo. Tá an fhairrge timpeall orainn uilig agus iasc go flúirseach inti, agus d'féadfaimís níos mó a dhéanamh. Ach faoi láthair tá constaicí orainn agus ceann dóibh sin ná na quotas atá buailte anuas orainn ag an Eorap sa Common Fisheries Policy. Bhí mé brónach gur gheall an tAire nuair a bhí sé sa bhFreasúra agus an páirtí len a mbaineann sé go ndéanfadh siad rud éigin faoi seo chomh luath agus a rachadh siad isteach i gcumhacht. Tá siad i gcumhacht le bliain anois. Tá Roinn úr againn, Roinn na Mara, agus níl aon dul chun cinn déanta san taobh sin den scéal. Tá rudaí go díreach mar a bhí anuraidh agus athrú anuraidh, tionscal an—tábhachtach, iasc an-tábhachtach, don chontae is againn, agus táimid i mbliana ag 80 tonna mar a bhí anuraidh agus an bhliain roimhe sin, in ainneoin an méid a gealladh agus an méid a dúradh sna polasaithe a cuireadh amach roimh an toghchán.

Mar a dúirt me, tá féidireachtaí móra ag tionscal na hiascaireachta ach iad a fhorbairt i gceart, mar shampla, san rannóg fostaíochta, Is féidir a lán fostaíochta a chur ar fáil atá bunaithe ar achmhainn nádúrtha, postanna go mbeidh bunús leo agus go mbeidh buaine ag baint leo ach cur chuige. Nuair a chuimhnímid ar an imirce uafásach atá as iarthar na tíre agus gach páirt den tír, tá géarghá le fostaíocht den chineál sin agus is féidir é a dhéanamh i dtionscal na hiascaireachta go speisialta chomh fada agus a bhaineann le próiseáil. Is uasfásach an rud é go bhfaighimid greim ar an iasc seo, go gcaitear amach as an tír é agus é go díreach reoite, agus b'fhéidir go dtagann sé ar ais don tir roinnt ama in a dhiaidh sin agus próiseáil déanta agus na postanna curtha ar fáil i dtír eile. Ba chóir dúinn amharc air sin agus iarracht a dheánamh níos mó próiseáil a dhéanamh sa tír ná mar atá déanta go dtí seo.

Is é an rud mór eile a dhéanann tionscal na hiascaireachta ná an t-airgead a chuireann sé ar fáil don Státhciste agus do eacnamaíocht na tíre trí onmhairiú agus tá géarghá le hionmhairithe. Tá ag éirí go maith linn agus aon rud a chuireann leis na hionmhairithe, is maith é. An t-airgead a fhaighimid ó thionscal na hiascaireachta is airgead iomlán é, ní hionann é agus airgead ó chuid des na tionscail eile a gcaithfidh tú an t-amh-ábhar a thabhairt isteach agus cur leis agus é a chur amach arís. Mar sin, ba chóir dúinn an tionscal seo a fhorbairt.

One of the other handicaps to which we are subject at present besides quotas, which I have mentioned, is the constraint imposed by the regulation concerning gross registered tonnage. I understand that directives have been issued from Europe recently requesting us to reduce our gross registered tonnage by 16 per cent. If that were to happen it would handicap and constrain further development of the Irish fishing industry. At present the effects of this are to be seen, because it is very difficult for fishermen to extend the fleet since no grants are available. My understanding is that we have exceeded the gross registered tonnage which has been assigned to us by Europe and we are thereby constrained and handicapped. I appeal to the Minister and to the Government to take this matter up at European level, because if we do not resolve this issue it will do irreparable damage to our fishing industry and will constrain further development.

The previous speaker, Deputy McCartan, referred to the tragedy which occurred off the Donegal coast yesterday. Coming from that country, I would also like to avail of this opportunity to extend my sincere sympathy to the two bereaved families. In Donegal we have had a litany of such tragedies, and near tragedies, in the last few years. I have mentioned in the House before that there is a great and urgent need to upgrade the rescue services in the west and north-west. I am not saying that the rescue services were inadequate yesterday. I understand they reached the scene promptly and that the search is continuing. When we mention rescue services for the west we think of the five helicopters that have been purchased. I understand that crews have been trained and that the helicopters will be in operation within the next few months. However, they will be of very little benefit to the west and north-west, where most tragedies occur, if they are based at Baldonnel. It is said that 90 per cent of the distress calls that go through Shannon come from the west and north-west. The Government should examine this issue because there is consensus from north Donegal, along the western seaboard and on to the south and south-west that something must be done and that the helicopters should be based in the west.

I am not specifying where the helicopters should be based. They could be based in Galway or in Finner in Donegal where there is an Army camp. The important point is that the helicopters will not be of much benefit to the west or the north-west if they are based at Baldonnel. We must take into consideration that it takes about two hours and 30 minutes for a helicopter based at Baldonnel to be operational along the west coast. Time is crucial in rescue operations and that is another reason why those helicopters should be based in the west or north-west.

I am concerned about the de-manning policies being implemented in regard to our lighthouses. Lighthouse keepers have played an important role in search and rescue operations down the years and it is sad that a policy of de-manning is being implemented. The UK and other countries have adopted such a policy, but they have a coastguard service or a coast watch system. I hope the Minister will indicate that there has been a change of heart in regard to this policy.

Another matter that is causing concern is the proposal by the British authorities to annex Rockall and build a nuclear dump on it. We should not allow them to do that because such a move would prove a great blow to our fishing industry. It is generally accepted that the waters along our coast are not polluted, but if the British are allowed to proceed with their plans it will amount to a kiss of death for our fishing industry. I understand that although the Department were informed about the plans last September or October they have only come to light in the last two or three weeks. The Government should take up this matter with the UK authorities. We should not tolerate the dumping of nuclear or any waste in the North Atlantic. I understand that the future of Rockall is being discussed at international level. Our claim to it is as valid as that of the UK or any other country. It may be that the only solution to this problem would be for us to declare that Rockall is part of our territory; but irrespective of what happens, we should not allow the dumping of nuclear waste there. After the Second World War explosives and containers of poisonous gas were dumped 70 or 80 miles off the north-west coast. They caused great concern last year and still present a problem. The dumping of nuclear waste in that area would be a fatal blow to our fishing industry.

Another Member referred to difficulties in regard to conservation in Donegal. I understand from the Northern Fisheries Board that they had only £1,000 to carry out conservation work for the rest of the season. In this regard I should like to pay tribute to the Donegal salmon and in-shore fishermen who made a donation to that board of £5,000. I was present at the annual general meeting of the fishermen and I heard a representative of the fisheries board pointing out how handicapped they were in their efforts to carry out conservation work. We should extend our gratitude to the fishermen for their contribution because if salmon cannot get into our lakes and rivers to spawn that industry will not survive.

The question of rod licences is a national issue. The dispute between the fishermen and the Department is doing a lot of harm in my constituency. Already a number of angling festivals have been cancelled. I understand that between 20 and 30 such festivals are held in Donegal each year and that because of the dispute it is not expected that any of them will take place. That will prove a big blow to guesthouse owners and others who depend on tourists. The Minister should consider suspending the implementation of the Act until the end of the year or early in 1989. That would give the Minister, the Department and the angling federations an opportunity to discuss the problem and bring forward an agreed solution.

San noiméad atá fágtha agam, is mór an trua é nach bhfuil mórán airgid curtha ar fáil le forbairt a dhéanamh ar chalafoirt agus mar sin de. Tá calafort amháin i mo cheantar féin, Alt an Chorráin nó Burtonport. Tá job le déanamh ansin, tá píosa le cur leis agus tá sé le déanamh domhain agus ba mhaith liom iarraidh ar an Aire amharc go speisialta ar an chás sin mar tá sé ag cur constaic le forbairt ansin go dtí go raibh sé déanta. Mar fhocal deiridh, as a last word I should like to ask the Minister to tell me the up-to-date position regarding the appointment of a harbour master at Burtonport. I understand the interviews have been held. I would like the Minister to say when it is intended to make the appointment so that activities in that area can be regulated.

Mr. Dennehy

Some members suggested that we should not be parochial in this debate, but we have heard about places like Howth Harbour and so on. As a representative of an area that boasts the second best natural harbour in the world, it would be remiss of me if I was not parochial. I should like to ask the Minister to pencil in Cork for consideration as the headquarters of the Marine Institute. The Minister has spent a lot of time in recent weeks in the Cork area in regard to marine related matters and has visited the harbour. I do not have to spell out for him the importance of the harbour to the Cork area and I am glad that we have a Department that is capable and willing to deal with the harbour as a unit.

I would like to welcome in particular the Minister's expressed view during the year that there should be a single harbour development body for the Cork area, as is the case in the Shannon area. It is probably the Ministry with the greatest potential for growth if it is handled properly. There will be clashes in certain areas if we have not got a co-ordinated body, be it national or local. In the case of Cork, there could be a clash between the mariculture industry and water-related sports activities. This can be avoided by doing what the Minister intends to do, setting up a single co-ordinated body for the whole port area, and I welcome that.

I would like to see a public education programme on what the Minister is doing. Unfortunately, in the recent past all the input from political speakers has been negative. Many people in the last few months, who last December had no interest in fisheries or fishermen, have suddenly become experts and are very worried about the position. They had an opportunity last December to put in their oar — no pun intended — but they did not avail of that opportunity. They have wasted the Minister's time in the last few months. I appeal to them to allow the Minister to get on with the very important job before him. He has shown that he is willing to deal with the various issues such as mariculture, aquaculture, inland fisheries, marine safety and others. He has shown that he has not just a knowledge of the area but a total commitment and interest in improving the position.

This is one of the areas, as well as forestry and horticulture, which has been identified by the Government as having a natural advantage. We should be concentrating the public mind on what we are attempting to achieve. There are many areas that the public will not be aware of and may not have an interest in, for instance, shipping. The Minister has now made it much easier for people to get funding. He has given them every possible co-operation in getting involved in the business of shipping. There are other areas where the public can get involved, such as inland fisheries, the whole pollution area and the preservation and maintenance of fish life.

I mention the need for an education programme because there has been too much scaremongering. During the year the Minister, on a number of occasions, gave categorical assurances that there would be no fish farming on lakes where there is a natural grouping of wild trout and salmon and yet people went out of this House, having listened to the Minister, and preached that our natural fisheries would be destroyed by the inland fishermen. This is the kind of thing we cannot afford. We must be positive. We have a new Ministry and a Minister who is totally committed. I want to see him getting every help possible, particularly in regard to the area I represent and the potential there.

Deputy McCartan was concerned about industrial jobs in the Howth area. There are plenty of opportunities for jobs under the fisheries heading and related matters such as tourism, but particularly in marine-related matters. There is greater potential in that area for job improvement than in almost any other areas. The Minister needs our help and not our hindrance, nor constant slagging in the papers and using up his time and energy on purely negative matters.

I am glad that some steps are being taken in the area of aquaculture. Previously, five or six Ministries were involved in these matters. We needed a licensing system and that has now been introduced. We needed to take steps in various other areas also. Deputy McGinley mentioned the whole international shipping area. The greatest scandal that we have had to deal with is this flag of convenience. We needed a Ministry with the time and the energy to put forward a solid and consistent case for getting rid of this problem. Being an island we need to protect our coasts and we were being stymied in this area.

The European Community's regulations are changing rapidly. We need to have our case made under the various headings, not least under the heading of the Department of the Marine. The change from project sponsored funding to the integrated development programme funding will give us a marvellous opportunity in this area. I welcome the principle of establishing the single harbour authority, the single development board, because they will obviously be part of a regional programme in any area, whatever the size of the region. In order to take full advantage of the improved situation, particularly with regard to the regional funds, we need to have an integrated approach.

The question of the de-manning of the coastal stations was mentioned. Coupled with that there has been very good development under the heading of safety and this should not be ignored. The setting up of a monitoring system around the country is going ahead. It had been stopped previously and that was a mistake. There was a need to modernise and update the radio stations and the whole safety system. This had been ignored and was stopped in 1979 or 1980. People will argue about the need for manning in specific areas and I am sure the Minister will deal with that. Steps are being taken and money is being spent in this area. This was badly needed. We need an education programme on the whole question of development under the various headings. We need to explain to people what we mean by aquaculture and mariculture and the different terminology that is used. There is a need to educate the public in this area and I would like to see the Minister's time being spent on that rather than on negative arguments about rod licences.

The Shipping Investment Grants Act has been brought into law. I mentioned the commercial opportunities earlier. This is a major aspect of investment in Cork. We depend very much on the port and on port-related matters. It was important that the Cork area be given this opportunity. There are people now investing in shipping who could not have become involved in that area previously. We need to keep the matter under review so that we do not get caught with the transferring of flags and so on, and the Minister is quite capable of doing that.

The question of inland fisheries and fresh water fisheries has caught the public attention. Being a fisherman, I sympathise with the Minister's problems. I want to tell him that there is tremendous goodwill among the fishing people — it is dangerous to say fishermen. I want the Minister to spell out clearly to the public and the people involved where the money has been spent in the last ten years, what money has been invested, and where the money accruing from licences will go. Anglers fear that after four or five years contributing to a licence they may come back to the Minister and say they wish to fish in all the rivers of their county and the surrounding counties, in other words, there should not be any reserved waters because they are paying the licence and they want to go with their children to fish in areas which at present are prohibited to them.

Acting Chairman (Mr. S. Walsh)

I am sorry, Deputy, but I must call on the Minister.

Mr. Dennehy

I wish the Minister every success.

Mr. T. Fitzpatrick

I would like to say a few words.

Acting Chairman

I am sorry, Deputy. You are far more experienced about the rules of the Chair than I am, and it was agreed by the House that the Minister would——

Mr. T. Fitzpatrick

I must bow to the Chair's ruling, but I think it is very unfortunate the Minister has been called now because I wanted to make the case that the decision to guillotine the rod fishery Bill before Christmas has led to bad legislation and has created an unholy mess in the fishing and tourist industries. It is rubbing salt in to guillotine this Estimate. If the people's representatives are not allowed to speak on behalf of the people, then the people will speak for themselves by protesting in the streets, on the rivers and on the lakes with terrible consequences——

Acting Chairman

I am sorry, but I must call on the Minister.

Minister for the Marine (Mr. Daly)

Maybe I could deal with that last point straightaway. There was no guillotine on the rod licence legislation before Christmas.

Mr. T. Fitzpatrick

Of course there was.

Mr. Daly

There was not. The legislation took its place in the queue, was discussed and agreed by the Whips.

Mr. T. Fitzpatrick

There were two and a half hours ——

Mr. Daly

There was no question of any guillotine and I want to reject that allegation. That is a fact. I want to clear this up because a number of people have said that this legislation was rushed through the Dáil on 16 December and guillotined by the Government. That is not so. As I said, the legislation took its place in the queue and was discussed in the normal way between the Whips. They agreed to take the Bill and it was on that basis that the legislation was passed.

Mrs. Doyle

On the Minister's assurances that the trout and coarse anglers accepted the legislation ——

Mr. Daly

No attempt was made by the Opposition when they had the opportunity to amend that legislation.

Mrs. Doyle

I put in seven or eight amendments all of which were guillotined.

Mr. T. Fitzpatrick

I put down an amendment and it was voted down.

Acting Chairman

The Minister, please, without interruption.

(Interruptions.)

Mrs. Doyle

If the Minister wants the facts we will give them to him.

Mr. Daly

They were technicalities which had nothing to do with the basic rod licence principle. The Deputies accepted that, they accepted it again this afternoon and so have the Progressive Democrats.

Mr. T. Fitzpatrick

The Minister spoke about putting down amendments. I put down a simple amendment——

Mr. Daly

It would be impossible for me at this stage to go through the items that have been raised in the debate by various speakers today. My time is very limited and these disruptive interruptions will deprive Deputies of hearing my replies to the points they raised.

A number of Deputies mentioned the consultations taking place on the salmon review body report. I have held extensive consultations and had negotiations with the central fisheries authorities, the regional boards and the major organisations involved, and one of the points most often raised was the financing of inland fisheries. It was obvious that there was no possibility of getting widespread agreement from the interested parties and we agreed to go ahead with the legislation before Christmas. That is still the situation. I challenge any Deputy to come up with any proposal which will get broad acceptance from the people involved in this controversy. We have had ample opportunity to discuss this subject already.

Mrs. Doyle

We have the six months rule and the sub judice case precluded us——

Mr. Daly

This issue has been discussed more than any other in the past five years, and most of the discussion was based on misinformation and misconceptions, not on facts. In that kind of environment it is impossible to find a solution. Every suggestion was met with a negative response. The question we must ask ourselves is, do we want the inland fisheries service to manage, control and develop inland fisheries? If we do, then somebody has to pay and there must be a reasonable balance between what the taxpayer puts in and the contribution to be made by the people involved.

I would like to tell the House some of the constructive measures we have been taking in the Department of the Marine. We have brought our legislation in line with international convention regulations, especially in the area of pollution where we have already taken very important decisions and brought forward very progressive legislation. There are other proposals we would like to see implemented in the inland fisheries and marine pollution areas and preparation of legislation in those areas is already well advanced.

On a number of occasions I have replied to questions on the volume of support from the European Community in the aquaculture area. At present I am endeavouring to rectify the position I inherited.

Mrs. Doyle

There was a 100 per cent success rate on FEOGA grants.

Mr. Daly

It would be immature and stupid in the extreme to expect that in the space of one year we in the Department of the Marine could remedy and rectify even some of the problems in these complex areas of aquaculture and inland fisheries solutions to which it has been impossible to find for the past 50 or 60 years——

Mrs. Doyle

There was a 100 per cent success rate on FEOGA grants.

Mr. Daly

We cannot resolve all these complex issues but we will not be diverted from our task in the short term by the petty politicking we have seen last night and over the last few months on the rod licence issue. I am satisfied that in the new Department of the Marine we have the capability, the expertise and the political will to tackle and resolve some of these issues and we intend to proceed along those lines.

As regards the administration of inland fisheries, this is being examined by me in the context of the overall evaluations under way in the Department. The exercise is to avoid overlapping and duplication, the waste of scarce human and financial resources and, within the framework of the Department, to streamline administrative arrangements so that they will be able to respond quickly and decisively to some of the issues which face us at present.

I want to condemn in the strongest possible manner some of the recent incidents and assaults we have seen and heard about on fishery protection staff. These were shameful and disgraceful. I deplore them in the strongest possible way. I have spoken about this matter to the Minister for Justice and every effort will be made by my Department and by the Department of Justice to track down, apprehend and convict those responsible for these disgraceful and shameful deeds.

Mrs. Doyle

The Minister has the support of this side of the House.

Mr. Daly

We cannot and we will not tolerate fishery officers being abused and beaten up by hooded gangsters.

As regards safety at sea, I want to express my sympathy, and the sympathy of the House, to the families of the people who were lost in the recent tragedy at Malin Head. This was the second tragedy we have had. We had another tragedy a few months ago. I have already set up a preliminary inquiry into the latest tragedy.

I should like to remind those involved in the fishing industry that the regulations and safety measures which we have in place are designed for their own protection and safety. They are involved in dangerous situations and provision of safety equipment is essential, as well as compliance with the regulations. I appeal to all those involved in the industry and in its commercial aspect to co-operate with the Department. We will give them any assistance and help by designing regulations specifically for their safety and that of their passengers.

I want to assure Deputy Begley that there is no serious pollution from fish farming in Mulroy Bay. The Department have no evidence to suggest that there is a reduction in the spawning of fish in Mulroy Bay. There was some problem which was investigated by the Department and settlement has now returned.

A number of issues raised were already covered in the brief I issued. If Deputies wish to raise specific items I will be available to give them details.

Vote put and agreed to.