asked the Minister for Justice if his attention has been drawn to continued breaches of the gaming laws by some arcade owners in Dublin; if the Garda intend to take any action to deal with this matter; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Gaming Law Board Allegations.
I am aware of allegations in the media of breaches of the Gaming and Lotteries Acts, 1956-1979, by arcade owners. I am informed by the Garda authorities that all allegations that are brought to their attention are investigated in a thorough manner and will continue to be so. They are aware of the allegations in question.
I am well aware that the Garda pursue reports which they receive in relation to these arcades and are quite active in doing so when they can. The Minister will be aware that the Evening Herald, for instance, has carried out an investigation and has listed at least seven arcades, six of them in the Dublin Borough area and one in the Dundrum area, the county area, which are, according to the investigators, in breach of the law. In the Dublin Borough area these arcades are paying out money which they are legally not supposed to and in the Dundrum area they are allowing bets of more than 2p and pay-outs of more than 50p. Could the Minister indicate if he has any proposals to review or reform the law in relation to these machines to make it more difficult, particularly for young people, to have access to them?
The Garda are aware of the allegations that have been made and are investigating them. I am giving attention to the Gaming and Lotteries Act, 1956, but I am not in a position to say when I will have any proposals to amend same. I must say, and I am sure the Deputy will agree with me, that there are quite a number of legislative proposals before this House, and before the other House, sponsored by me. This is probably the greatest number of Bills any Minister for Justice ever had before both Houses at any one time.
The Bills I brought before the House were given priority which in many instances was requested by Members of this House. It was a priority I recognised and responded to where I could. In one or two instances my response was not fast enough and I was tripped up by Private Members' Bills — I notice Deputy Barrett is smiling. I think that Deputy Barrett was one of the first to bring in a Private Members' Bill on under age drinking, and at the end of the day we succeeded in doing something worthwhile.
The matter is being examined. It is not and certainly could not be regarded as having priority over any legislation — and I have ten or 12 Bills at different Stages in both Houses of the Oireachtas now. The Gaming and Lotteries Act if it were to be amended could not be given a priority over and above anything I have done. It is a matter in which I have a personal interest. It is a area where I see tremendous danger to young people, possibly because there is not sufficient parental control and they have so much money to play the slot machines. That I find unbelievable.
I was informed that one gaming machine was worth £600 tax free per week to an illegal operator. One wonders where all this money comes from. It is a serious social matter. I have had discussions with the Garda about it recently. As I said to Deputy De Rossa I am aware that this is a very serious matter and it is one on which we are trying to get proposals before you as soon as we can.
Deputy De Rossa rose.
A number of Deputies have offered. I am anxious to facilitate three Deputies, including the Deputy in possession, before 3.45 p.m. Perhaps Deputy De Rossa will be brief. I will call Deputy Barrett and Deputy Tony Gregory.
Would the Minister not agree that this matter is before the House and Dublin Corporation chose to have these machines banned specifically because of the concern of parents in relation to the danger to their children——
I accept that.
——and that contrary to the impresssion the Minister might have created — that it was a lack of responsibility on the part of parents that was creating the problem — we are dealing with the problem precisely because parents are concerned.
I accept what Deputy De Rossa said and we all agree that local authorities faced up to a very serious problem. Perhaps other local authorities would view it in the same light. As far as I am concerned, the Garda are aware of what is going on. They are aware of the importance of it and are investigating certain allegations and I hope these investigations will be successful.
Would the Minister agree that the present system only shoves the problem from one area to the next, depending on the stand taken by each local authority? Arising from the Minister's earlier reply, would he consider setting up a gaming board, as I mentioned during the Estimates debate, which would play a role similar to that played by Bord Fáilte in relation to special restaurant licences? The gaming board would have to issue a suitability certificate in relation to premises, would have extensive powers in relation to the control of machines, the pay out, the age limit, the confiscation of machines and so on. Would he consider in his proposals the introduction of a gaming board with very strict controls, particularly in relation to age limits, pay outs and the type of machines? The gaming board would have power to carry out inspections by removing machines from premises so that they could be thoroughly checked.
I am bearing in mind what Deputy Barrett has said and having regard to previous occasions when we have had discussions in this House on important social issues — issues which are not party political as such — where each of us would be concerned for the welfare of children. I am thinking particularly of something I mentioned already this afternoon, the Private Members' Motion put down by Deputy Barrett in relation to under age drinking; I am thinking of a debate which the Members of the other House had recently on the charities question. That Seanad debate led to convincing me that there was a need for a charities board, as that referred to in reply to a question from Deputy Birmingham. That new commission is operating under Mr. Justice Declan Costello. I should like to say specifically to Deputy Barrett, that during the debate on that issue, reference was made to the possible abuses of money being collected for charities. As the Seanad debate went on I was convinced that it was about time we did something worthwhile about it. I invite Deputy Barrett, or any other Member, to initiate a discussion here in Private Members' time in which I would fully participate, and perhaps we would hear the views of a number of people on this area. I would hope that something will emerge from it and that something worthwhile would happen.
Deputy Gregory with a final supplementary please.
May I ask the Minister if he recollects that on 14 December last I raised this specific issue by way of a Dáil question — the Minister was not here to reply. I named a specific amusement arcade in Talbot Street in Dublin Central. The Minister for Social Welfare, Deputy Woods, was here to answer the question and he gave an undertaking that it would be investigated. Subsequently the Garda were in touch with me. The approach of the Garda was that they were aware of what was happening in this particular premises. They did not dispute that. They asked if I could produce any evidence that would enable them to deal with the matter. I would have thought it was the job of the Garda to produce the evidence. Given that it is a number of months since I mentioned that arcade, the abuse still continues there, openly and on a very large scale, what is the problem? Where is the difficulty for the Garda because they know and they admit what is happening, and yet they cannot take any effective action to stop it.
I cannot say I know what the Garda views are on any particular investigation. If allegations were made, I presume it is the duty of the Garda to question those who make allegations and see what are the reasons for making those allegations, and if there is any evidence to substantiate them. Of course, I recognise that Deputy Gregory is not in the business of providing evidence unless he has same, but in my invitation to Deputy Barrett, who raised the issue, or to anyone else who wants to initiate a full scale debate where every Member would have a free rein to voice their views and opinions, I will have the views of all Members in their entirety conveyed to the Garda Síochána for their consideration.
Deputy Gregory rose.
Sorry, Deputy Gregory, we have gone long past the time allocated for questions.
I want to ask a very brief question.
It has to be very brief.
I should like to ask the Minister if he would again communicate with the Garda in Store Street in relation to the particular premises in Talbot Street of which they are well aware.
I invite Deputy Gregory to give me any document or letter sometime this afternoon or tomorrow, stating clearly what he has to say. Within one hour of receiving it, it will be on the commissioner's desk.
That disposes of Questions for today.
May I ask your indulgence to raise on the Adjournment tonight the subject matter of Question No. 24 on today's Order Paper which was not reached. It concerns the tragic death of a young man, Gerard Rennick, Ravensdale, Dundalk, in August 1987 and the people who were charged in connection with this offence who have since left the country and have gone to Canada. In view of the continuing grief being suffered by his parents and family I wish to raise the matter on the Adjournment.
I will communicate with the Deputy.