asked the Minister for Education the steps she has taken to have talks with the British Minister for Education in order to ensure that prior to 1992 qualified Irish primary and secondary school teachers will have their qualifications fully recognised by the relevant British education authorities, in order to ensure that discrimination in terms of pay is not exercised against such migrant Irish teachers; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - UK Recognition of Irish Teachers' Qualifications.
9.
On 21 December 1988 the Council of the European Communities adopted a directive on a general system for the recognition of higher education diplomas awarded on completion of professional education and training of at least three years duration. The directive must be implemented in all member states by January 1991. The directive will apply to teachers and I am confident that it will solve the present difficulties experienced by Irish teachers in securing qualified teacher status in the UK.
I have been having this whole matter pursued through the education and culture sub-group of the Anglo-Irish Inter-governmental Council. I will be considering the outcome of a meeting of this group held on Tuesday so as to determine what further action I could take in the matter in the light of, among other things, plans for the implementation of the EC directive in the UK.
Let me say also that just over one week ago I met a group of teachers, representative of the general body of Irish teachers in the UK, to hear their concerns arising out of comments made recently by the Minister with responsibility for such areas, Angela Rumbolt MP. As I say, I am following up the matter and in early May I hope to meet with that Minister in London when I will press the case again of Irish teachers throughout England, in particular those living in many of the local authority areas in London.
Would the Minister not recognise that there is a unique bilateral role to be played by the Irish Minister for Education, independent of whatever directive may emerge from the Community, and in the pursuit of that bilateral role, would she not agree that she could directly influence the British Minister to inform all the local education authorities of the acceptance by the British education authorities at central level of Irish educational teaching standards? Can she also indicate to the House whether she has formally written to the relevant Minister for Education in Britain to ask him or her to do that?
I certainly share the Deputy's view. The recent announcements of the education authorities and the relevant Minister in England make disquieting reading, not only for Irish teachers but also for teachers from Scotland and other countries. I take the point in regard to bilateral talks and to that end my Department have been in touch with the relevant Minister in the Department of Education and Science in London. I also hope to have a meeting shortly when I will very strongly press the case along the lines the Deputy has outlined.
Can the Minister assure the House that she will formally, within the framework of the Anglo-Irish Agreement and the bilateral contacts which exist between the two Departments, raise this matter with her counterpart in Britain?
The matter is presently being discussed but I intend to make an intervention in the matter.
Would the Minister accept that this is an area where British and Irish interests coincide in that not a single one of our graduates from the teacher training colleges last year was able to secure a full time position with the result that very many Irish teachers are seeking employment in Britain while in Britain apparently there is a serious shortage of teachers? Because of this an early meeting between the Minister and the Secretary of State might go a long way towards resolving that problem. I ask the Minister to seek an early meeting with Secretary of State Baker in an effort to put this matter right once and for all.
Last November while in Brussels for a meeting of the Council of Ministers I raised this matter directly with the Minister for Education, Mr. Baker, who in turn referred the matter to his junior Minister, Angela Rumbolt. My Department have been in touch with her. I accept that there is urgency attaching to the matter. Following my informative meeting with a group of teachers, representative of the general body of Irish teachers in the UK, I intend, as I said, to pursue this matter very vigorously with the relevant Ministers in England.
First, I wish to commend the Minister for the personal interest she has taken in this matter as evidenced by the meeting she had with the young teachers from London last week which I had the pleasure of attending. Can the Minister tell us when she hopes to meet the Minister in London and if at that meeting she will try to find out who the spokesperson of the Department of Education and Science in London was who said that many Irish qualified teachers did not have basic numeracy and literacy—
I have to dissuade the Member from quoting at Question Time.
I am sure the Minister would agree, as the teachers present said, that it is quite humiliating and most insulting not alone to our teachers but also to our education system that a remark be made by a spokesperson for the DES in London to the effect that many of our teachers do not have basic numeracy and literacy? Would the Minister pursue this matter when she meets the Minister?
That was one of the points raised with me at that meeting at which Deputy Mac Giolla was present. I will be taking up all of the issues and will discuss them with the Minister.
Question No. 10.
A Cheann Comhairle——
Perhaps a brief question, Deputy, as I am making very little progress at Question Time today.
Can the Minister tell us if qualified Irish teachers who return to teach in this country will have their service in Britain recognised for pension purposes?
That is a widening of the question.
That is a separate question but one to which I would be glad to supply the Deputy with an answer.