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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 24 Oct 1989

Vol. 392 No. 1

Order of Business.

It is proposed to take Nos. 1 to 11. It is also proposed that Nos. 6 to 11 be taken without debate. It is further proposed that statements on the NESC report, No. 88, shall be made at the conclusion of the proceedings on these items and the following arrangements shall apply: the speech of the Taoiseach shall not exceed one hour; the speech of the main spokesperson nominated by each of the groups as defined in Standing Order 89 shall not exceed 45 minutes; the speech of each Member called on shall not exceed 30 minutes; and the Minister for Finance shall be called on not later than 6.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 25 October, 1989 to make a statement in reply. Private Members' Business shall be No. 29.

Is the proposal agreed that Items Nos. 6 to 11 be taken without debate?

No. 6 is a proposal to extend the time in which the sub-committee of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges will report on the televising of the Dáil proceedings. It also includes an additional section calling for a more general programme of reform of Dáil procedure covering limitations on the length of speeches, procedures for dealing with urgent matters and the admissibility of parliamentary questions. There is a number of points which merit a debate on the issue. The question of televising Dáil proceedings has been under consideration for some time and there have been constant referrals back and extensions of time. We are seeking to have the extension reduced to the end of this year because we consider that the whole question of televising the Dáil should not need to be extended for a further period to the end of March, which in effect would probably mean that the televising of the Dáil would not take place until about this time next year. The question of general reform of the Dáil has been added in to this issue.

I have allowed Deputy De Rossa some latitude.

I do not propose to go on at length.

I want the Deputy to come to the point.

Part (b) of this motion has been added on without any consultation with The Workers' Party at Committee on Procedure and Privileges level. It is an attempt to convey it as some form of general reform of the Dáil when all it is proposed to cover is limitations on lengths of speeches and so on. Earlier today the Taoiseach indicated that the committee were already dealing with the proposal in the programme for Government agreed with the PDs for a wide range of reforms such as the passage of legislation through the Dáil, the Seanad, the committee system, Question Time, the sub judice rule and so on.

The Deputy has made his point.

There is a need for a debate on this motion and that is why I am objecting to it being taken without debate.

I am putting the question, "That items Nos. 6 to 11 be taken without debate." I think the question is carried.

The question is: "That items Nos. 6 to 11 be taken without debate." On that question a division has been challenged. Will the Members who claim a division please rise in their places?

Deputies Byrne, De Rossa, Gilmore, Gregory, Kemmy, McCartan, Mac Giolla, Rabbitte and Sherlock rose in their places.

As fewer than ten Members have risen in their places I declare the question carried. The names of the Members dissenting will be recorded in the Journal of the Proceedings of the House.

Are the proposals for dealing with the NESC report agreed? Agreed.

I should like to ask the Taoiseach, in view of the unprecedented events of last week, namely the withdrawal of charges against the Guildford Four, the difficulties obviously being experienced by the British and Irish Governments at the Inter-Governmental Conferences and of other difficulties which exist in Anglo-Irish relations, if, as a matter of urgency, we can have a debate in the House on those matters.

Will the Deputy give me a chance to consider that request?

May I raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of the Goodman factory that was earmarked for Tuam as a replacement for the sugar factory that has been closed now for three years?

I will communicate with the Deputy.

(Interruptions.)

Is that the one you closed?

It is only five times smaller than the one the Taoiseach closed.

I should have called Deputy Pat Rabbitte in respect of Standing Order 30 on which he wishes to move a motion.

I have given you notice, Sir, that under Standing Order 30 I intend to request leave to move the adjournment of the Dáil to have a debate on the very urgent matter of allegations of corruption in the planning process in Dublin. I think there is a clear necessity at this stage to establish a public sworn judicial inquiry into these allegations of organised subversion of the planning process in the Dublin area.

The Deputy need not elaborate now.

Let me say in conclusion that this is the first opportunity since the Adjournment of the Dáil to raise a matter that has received so much attention in the public media, and the fact that the Garda investigations into these allegations do not, for whatever reason, appear to be——

I am sorry, Deputy Rabbitte, there are ways and means or raising such matters but, having considered your proposal very carefully, I do not consider it is one contemplated by the Standing Order, that is Standing Order 30. I cannot, therefore, grant leave to move the motion now.

I cannot think of any other current issue that is of such fundamental importance to the public. I put down a question, which was disallowed, to the Taoiseach to which only the Taoiseach could reply, but that question was transferred to the Minister for the Environment.

Again, the Chair has no function in the transfer of questions from one Minister to another or from the Taoiseach to a Minister.

I accept that.

Nonetheless, there is another way of raising the matter, I am sure.

I accept your ruling. Nonetheless it was important to establish that the Taoiseach was aware of these allegations and of the personalities believed to be involved——

That must be the end of the matter now.

Prior to the appointment of his Government——

I am sorry, Deputy Rabbitte.

It is important to establish at this stage——

The Deputy will have to find another way of adverting to this matter. I have ruled it out of order now.

The matter——

Deputy Rabbitte, you must accept my ruling in the matter. It is not in order now. I conveyed that to you very clearly.

Can I have your permission to raise on the Adjournment this evening the question of the Barlo strike in Clonmel which is within the remit of the Minister for Labour under the Programme for National Recovery? I would appreciate your consideration of the request.

I will communicate with the Deputy in respect of that matter.

Can the Taoiseach say when the long promised legislation to give statutory authority to the regional technological colleges to do joint work with industry be introduced in view of the fact that many of these colleges are currently acting ultra vires in the absence of such legislation?

Is this legislation promised?

I will have to communicate with the Deputy.

I would like to ask the Taoiseach if he will facilitate an early debate on the report of the Commission on Health Funding.

I will have to consider that.

When does the Taoiseach intend bringing legislation before this House to amend the 1987 Fisheries Act with a view to resolving the rod licence dispute?

The Minister will be dealing with that matter tomorrow at Question Time.

(Limerick East): When will the Minister for Finance publish the statutory regulations to bring about the changes in the assessment of disabled drivers for certain tax benefits?

They are with the draftsman.

(Limerick East): When does he expect to bring in the regulations?

As soon as possible.

(Limerick East): Will they date from the start of this tax year or from when the Minister brings them in?

I promise to have them brought in as soon as possible.

(Limerick East): Will eligibility be from the date of publication or from the start of the tax year?

That has not been decided.

(Limerick East): It was all talked about here during the passage of the Finance Act. Has the Taoiseach forgotten about the disabled drivers? He made commitments here under the Finance Act. He promised it would be done before the Dáil resumed.

(Interruptions.)

There is no need for disorder.

(Limerick East): It is no joke to be disabled.

(Interruptions.)

I, as Minister for Finance, introduced these benefits in the first place.

(Interruptions.)

Is it the Taoiseach's intention to establish a foreign affairs committee of both Houses of the Oireachtas in view of the fact that there is widespread support for such a committee in this House, including his partners in Government?

The matter is being actively considered.

A Deputy

It was considered two and a half years ago, Taoiseach.

(Interruptions.)

Will the Taoiseach request the Minister for Industry and Commerce to make a statement to the House in relation to the Government's decision to cancel export credit insurance?

Let the Deputy ask him himself.

You can put down a question, Deputy.

(Interruptions.)

May I ask the Minister for Industry and Commerce——

I am due to answer questions on next Wednesday. I presume this matter will be raised by various Deputies and I will be glad to deal with it at that time.

I thought we had to go through the boss.

I seek your permission to raise on the Adjournment the failure of the Minister for the Environment to implement the smoke control order for zone A in Ballyfermot which was due to be implemented on 31 May, postponed until 30 September and last week again postponed to 31 December.

I will communicate with Deputy Mac Giolla. A number of Deputies are offering.

Can the Taoiseach clarify why two pieces of legislation promised by the Minister for Social Welfare are not on the list of business for this session and when they may come before the House? One is the Bill to provide a regulatory body for occupational pensions and the second is the proposal to set up an independent appeals office for all social welfare appeals.

Both are underway. They are with the draftsman.

I have two matters. The first is to seek to raise on the Adjournment the future funding of Coolock Community Law Centre which is under threat of closure at the end of November.

I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning that matter.

Secondly, is it the intention of your office to intervene at an early stage to resolve whatever difficulties are arising among members of the staff of the House so that the conduct of the business of this House can proceed uninterrupted? I understand there are difficulties that have been outstanding for a long number of months now. It behoves your office, and indeed all of us, to see that these matters are resolved without any further delay.

I share the Deputy's sentiments.

A Cheann Comhairle——

Order, allow the Chair to make a comment. While the issue does not arise on the Order of Business, I propose to place this important matter before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges at a meeting which will be held later today.

May I raise on the Adjournment the reported allegations made by Mr. Christy Walsh, former acting CEO for the Southern Health Board, that he was informed by Mr. Flanagan, Secretary of the Department of Health, that the Taoiseach ordered the removal of Mr. Walsh from office.

I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning that matter.

May I ask the Taoiseach, and perhaps the Minister for the Environment, if, having regard to the Government's obligation to give legislative effect to the EC Directive, Environmental Impact Assessment, the Government are prepared to accept Motion No. 4 in the name of the Parliamentary Labour Party on List No. 1? This directive effectively writes the regulations for the Minister, having regard to the level of business that he endured over the summer.

The question of taking a Labour Party motion is surely a matter for the Labour Party in Private Members' time.

Given that the Taoiseach is not fully aware that we have done the Government's business for them, because clearly they have been so busy themselves, if the Government were to accept this motion the House would not be wasting time and, more importantly, our position vis-á-vis the Community would now be corrected and we would not have been taken before the court in Luxembourg.

May I ask Deputies to be brief. A number of Deputies are still offering on the Order of Business. This is rather unusual. I hope we are not setting a precedent today by the number of Deputies who have risen in their places concerning matters of this kind. I want to call Deputy Alan Shatter now.

I want to raise two matters. May I raise on the Adjournment the Government's failure to take any meaningful action to tackle the problem of smog in Dublin this coming winter? Secondly, in the light of the serious public concern that exists would the Taoiseach consider having the Minister for the Environment make a statement to this House to tell Members the up-to-date position with regard to the investigation which is being conducted into the Dublin local authorities and into An Bord Pleanála? Would the Taoiseach make time available this week for a statement to be made by the Minister?

The Deputy could put down a question if he wishes.

I seek permission to raise on the Adjournment this evening the issue of the inordinate delay in progressing the proposal from three schools in Gorey, County Wexford for a common campus development.

They are competing with themselves.

I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning that matter.

It is likely that we will have two items on the Adjournment and obviously our chances will be increased——

I will communicate with the Deputy.

I wish, with your permission, to raise on the Adjournment the proposed closure of Ergas Limited, the Arklow LPG company, as a result of the takeover by FloGas resulting in the loss of over 20 jobs in that area, the loss of work to dockers and also the loss of revenue to the harbour board in that area.

I will be in touch with Deputy Kavanagh concerning the matter. I am calling Deputy Sherlock who has been offering for some time.

Would the Taoiseach or the Minister for Health state whether it is intended to introduce legislation to amend the Health Act, 1970, having directed that the functions of the local health committees which have statutory authority under the Act, would be taken over by health boards? Is it intended to have amending legislation to give effect to that directive.

There is no legislation promised.

There is no legislation promised, I gather, Deputy.

May I ask the Taoiseach if he will inform the House when he proposes to issue the Book of Estimates and whether he can discount the rumours that the overseas development programme in that Book of Estimates has been severely slashed to the detriment of the poorest people of the world?

The Book of Estimates will be published very shortly. The Deputy should not be listening to these idle, speculative rumours.

I can take it that the programme is not slashed?

The Deputy should not be listening to idle, speculative rumours.

Can I take it——

Nor should the other charming Deputy.

Thank you very much.

With regard to promised legislation, what stage is the marriage property Bill at and have the Cabinet reached agreement on it, as it has been promised since 1986?

I will have to communicate with the Deputy about the exact position.

I would like to raise on the Adjournment the severe hardship being caused for geriatric patients and their families through the collapse, because of lack of funds, of the Eastern Health Board's scheme which provides subsidised beds for such patients in private nursing homes?

I will communicate with the Deputy.

May I ask the Taoiseach if a decision has been made on the provision of regional sports centres by the Government?

An announcement will be made very shortly. I am out of order in replying but that is my nature.

With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I would like to raise on the Adjournment the continued failure of the Minister for Education to provide the second level school in the Castleview area of my constituency from which people feel they have to protest outside the Dáil.. This area which is served by more than 80 primary teachers has not got one single secondary school and the children are being bussed out to 17 schools outside the area.

I will communicate with the Deputy

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