Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 7 Nov 1989

Vol. 392 No. 7

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take Nos. 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 1, 13, 14 and 15. It is also proposed that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. today and business shall be interrupted at 10.30 p.m. It is further proposed that Nos. 4, 5 and 6 shall be taken without debate. It is further proposed that Nos. 7 and 8 shall be taken together for the purposes of debate; that the debate shall not exceed 30 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: The speech of the Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach moving No. 7, the speech of the Spokesperson for each of the Groups (as defined in Standing Order 89) and the concluding speech by the Minister of State shall not exceed 6 minutes in each case.

It is further proposed that the proceedings of the Second Stage of No. 1, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 7 p.m.; the speech of each Member called on shall not exceed 20 minutes and the Minister for Health shall be called on not later than 6.50 p.m. to conclude the debate. The Committee and remaining Stages, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 10.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only amendments set down by the Minister. Private Members' Business shall be No. 32, Motion 37.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for a late sitting today agreed?

Deputy Dukes rose.

An Ceann Comhairle

Does your question relate to the late sitting, Deputy Dukes?

Mr. Dukes

Yes. I agree to the late sitting but I want to make a point in that connection about Item No. 1. If you wish, a Cheann Comhairle, I will wait until you come to No. 1, otherwise I can make my point now.

An Ceann Comhairle

I would prefer if you would wait until I come to it. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed? Agreed. Is it agreed that Nos. 4, 5 and 6 be taken without debate?

Mr. Dukes

I agree that Nos. 4, 5 and 6 should be taken without debate but I wish to congratulate the Government for having adopted Fine Gael's proposal in regard to Nos. 4 and 5.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is it agreed that Nos, 4, 5 and 6 be taken without debate? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with Nos. 7 and 8 agreed?

Proinsias De Rossa

In relation to Nos. 7 and 8, while I agree that the business of this House should be dealt with expeditiously, I object to the fact that only a half an hour has been allocated to this debate and that each speaker is restricted to six minutes, given that the net effect of these two motions will be to restrict the rights of The Workers' Party in this House.

An Ceann Comhairle

Are the proposals for dealing with Nos. 7 and 8 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 1 agreed?

Mr. Dukes

I have reservations about the proposals for dealing with No. 1. My colleagues and I spent some time examining the Bill in question yesterday and today. We have also examined the implications of a judgment issued yesterday dealing with the issues covered by this Bill. As a result, we have a number of amendments to propose to the Bill. The issues involved are somewhat complex and I do not believe that they can be adequately dealt with in the space of two hours this evening as proposed by the Government. I would like, therefore, to propose that either we do not provide on the Order of Business that we conclude all Stages of the Bill by 10.30 tonight or that in the interval between Second Stage and the commencement of Committee Stage there should be a further meeting of the Whips when we have seen from the Second Stage debate what the various concerns are so that we could make a decision at that point, if necessary, to extend the amount of time available for discussion of Committee Stage of the Bill. We want to be sure in passing this Bill, with its implications for the main Bill, that we get it right this time. I assure the House that it is not my intention to be obstructive or to delay the passage of the Bill unnecessarily. My main concern is to get it right.

The Taoiseach

I agree.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Barry

I wrote to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Collins last week suggesting that an hour be set aside tonight between 8.30 p.m. and 9.30 p.m. — which is not now practical because of today's Order of Business — so that the House could debate the forthcoming vote in the United Nations about the representations from Cambodia and the serious concern this is causing all sides of the House. The vote will be taken on 15 November — tomorrow week — but the Minister for Foreign Affairs will not answer questions on the subject until after that date. I suggested in my letter that we might provide an hour some time this week to debate this very serious matter. Will the Taoiseach consider it?

The Taoiseach

I will consider it.

Mr. Spring

Will the Taoiseach indicate when the Book of Estimates will be published?

The Taoiseach

Very shortly, within the next week or so.

Mr. Connaughton

Is the Minister for Finance aware of the imminent closure of the Homecare Fabrics factory in Tuam? Is he also aware that an application was made to the IDA ——

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy Connaughton.

Mr. Connaughton

——for a start-up grant——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should raise that question in another way and I will facilitate him.

Mr. Connaughton

The closure is imminent and now is the time to talk about it.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should raise it properly as it is not in order now.

Mr. Connaughton

The Minister, Deputy Treacy should know all about it and he should try to keep 110 people in their jobs.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am calling Deputy O'Keeffe.

Mr. Connaughton

Will the Taoiseach do something about it?

The Taoiseach

I would like to answer the Deputy but I would be totally out of order.

Mr. Connaughton

How can I be out of order when people are losing their jobs?

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy Connaughton, I have called Deputy O'Keeffe.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

On the Order of Business, following the latest discovery of a bugging mechanism at a Fianna Fáil Comhairle Ceantair meeting in Meath last Thursday, will the Taoiseach now give an indication to the House when he will bring before us the promised legislation on bugging and telephone tapping?

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

I am calling Deputy Michael Higgins.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

May I have a reply, please?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should put down a question in regard to that matter.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

My question is in order as it deals with promised legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am not aware that it is promised legislation.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

It is. It was promised in the Joint Programme for Government.

Mr. M. Higgins

I should like to raise a couple of matters——

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

I am entitled to ask a question in relation to promised legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not in order now.

Mr. M. Higgins

As Foreign Affairs spokesperson for the Labour Party, I should like to say that we support the request by Deputy Barry for a debate on the United Nations vote on 15 November.

The Taoiseach

I also agree with Deputy Higgins, I appreciate his concern.

Mr. M. Higgins

I welcome the Taoiseach's consensus in regard to this matter and I hope he will pass it on to Deputy Collins so that he can arrange for the day of the vote to be changed. I wish to raise on the Adjournment the collapse of the services available to the inhabitants of the Aran Islands who have been denied, despite statutory guarantees, under the Transport Acts——

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy in respect of that matter.

Mr. M. Higgins

I also want to refer to the position of the elderly who are given no assistance to avail of essential services to the mainland.

Mr. Noonan

(Limerick East): I should like to raise on the Adjournment with the Minister for Education the question of the provision of proper accommodation for post-primary pupils at Hospital, County Limerick.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. Rabbitte

I wish to raise on the Adjournment the undertaking given to this House in July by the Minister for Education concerning the provision of a school psychological service and specifically the fact that two pilot schemes would be implemented as and from September. Because this has not happened I should like to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. Rabbitte

On the Order of Business, while I am on my feet, may I ask the Taoiseach if he intends to permit time for a debate in this House on the allegations of corruption concerning the planning scandal in the Dublin area.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy, I have ruled that matter out of order on numerous occasions.

Mr. Quinn

In relation to promised legislation and arising from a reply I received from the Taoiseach last week, is he now in a position to indicate to the House whether the Government are prepared to establish, on an interim basis, the environmental protection agency promised by them prior to the introduction of the legislation in view of the fact that effectively the legislation — on the Government's own admission — will not be operational until the middle of next year?

The Taoiseach

I dealt with that last week.

Mr. Quinn

I should like to remind the Taoiseach that his response last week was that he would give it some consideration. Now that he has given it some consideration perhaps he would be able to deal with it effectively this afternoon?

The Taoiseach

I also indicated that, in my view, there were a number of mechanisms available in the interim to deal with any problems that might arise.

Mr. Quinn

Do I take it from the Taoiseach's reply that, in relation to promised legislation, the present position is considered to be satisfactory by the Government until such time as the legislation is put in place?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am afraid we cannot debate the matter now.

Mr. McGinley

Is the Taoiseach aware of the seriousness of the number of job losses in Donegal south west, particularly since last weekend, when it was decided to close the mackerel fishing season? Is he aware that there are 1,500 jobs in immediate danger of being lost?

An Ceann Comhairle

This is not a question for the Order of Business. The Deputy knows that full well.

Mr. McGinley

Have any approaches been made to the Commission about this very serious matter for my constituency? In view of the inadequate response, I wish to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy in respect of his request for an Adjournment debate on the subject.

Mr. Noonan

(Limerick East): Would the Taoiseach say whether it is the intention of the Government to introduce Supplementary Estimates to fund school transport for the remainder of the year?

The Taoiseach

That is a matter for a Dáil question.

Mr. Byrne

I wish to raise on the Adjournment the position prevailing in Dublin hospitals in which acute hospital beds are being occupied by patients who should be in private nursing home care but, because of the underfunding of the Eastern Health Board, the subventions normally available have dried up causing tremendous expense and anxiety to the families of patients affected.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will be in touch with the Deputy.

Mr. Shatter

On the Order of Business last week I asked the Taoiseach whether he could give the House any indication when the necessary orders will be made providing for rules of court in respect of the Judicial Separation Bill. At the time I do not think the Taoiseach was aware of the fact that the orders had not been made. Would he indicate when the Minister for Justice intends to make the necessary orders? This is a matter of some importance before we find ourselves in a similar position with regard to the Judicial Separation Act as we are in regard to the Child Care legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am not aware that this refers to legislation. Would the Deputy not table questions in respect of these matters?

Mr. Shatter

It is legislation enacted by this House which is being impeded by the failure of the Government to provide the necessary statutory orders for the procedures for bringing——

An Ceann Comhairle

I am asking the Deputy to table a question on the matter.

Mr. Shatter

There appears to be no interest in the matter.

Mrs. Fennell

May I raise on the Adjournment the problems presented for public patients by the removal of Mr. O'Neill, the paediatric neurosurgeon from Our Lady's Hospital for Sick Children, Crumlin.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will be in touch with the Deputy.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

In the absence of the Minister for the Marine is the Taoiseach aware that the mackerel fishing season has been closed? Are his Government prepared to negotiate an exchange of species of approximately 2,000 tonnes in order to accommodate the fishermen, processors and, in particular, the hundreds of people who are about to lose their jobs because of this early closure? I should like to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. Deenihan

May I raise on the Adjournment the provision of a grant for the proposed extension to Listowel vocational school, County Kerry?

An Ceann Comhairle

I will be in touch with the Deputy on the matter.

Mr. M. Higgins

In relation to promised and expected legislation, when does the Taoiseach propose to order for debate the amendments to the Fisheries Act, 1987 to enable the rod licence dispute to be solved?

The Taoiseach

We are awaiting developments.

Mr. M. Higgins

Can we take it that the Taoiseach is indicating that legislation will be introduced in this session?

The Taoiseach

We are awaiting developments.

Deputies

We have been waiting long enough.

Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs (Mr. Calleary)

Fine Gael changed their minds on it.

(Interruptions.)

The Taoiseach

Fine Gael are treating every fish in the sea.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Farrelly

Would the real Government stand up?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Allen has been offering.

Mr. Allen

May I raise on the Adjournment the removal of Mr. Christy Walsh from his position as acting chief executive officer of the Southern Health Board and the alleged involvement of the Taoiseach in his removal?

An Ceann Comhairle

I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning the matter.

(Interruptions.)

The Taoiseach

I will get Gay Byrne to deal with the Deputy.

Dr. Lee

On the Order of Business, would the Taoiseach say when the necessary finance will be made available for the repair of the railway bridge at Seville Place which bridge was damaged two months ago and had served as one of the three main arterial routes——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Lee, this is a matter you must raise in another way. My office will be helpful to the Deputy in putting down a question.

Mr. Boylan

With your permission, Sir, may I raise on the Adjournment as a matter of urgency with the Minister for the Environment the necessity for making emergency funds available to Cavan County Council to effect immediate repairs to county roads many of which are now totally inaccessible and in respect of which services have been withdrawn by the State.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy in relation to the matter.

Mr. Quinn

In relation to legislation on the Order Paper — which the Government have indicated they want taken this session — and in view of the fact that the Government have now agreed to establish two special committees would the Taoiseach consider, along with the Minister for the Environment, the establishment of a special committee to expedite the provisions of the Building Control Bill — now seriously delayed — whose provisions give effect to building regulations, including the statutory fire regulations? The Labour Party would be anxious to facilitate the passage of this Bill. Now that the Government have agreed other legislation in relation to two special committees I would invite the Taoiseach——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made his point. I might dissuade him from making a speech.

Mr. Quinn

Perhaps the Taoiseach would like to respond.

The Taoiseach

The trouble is that if we have too many select committees going at the same time it is difficult for Deputies to service them all. Two Select Committees on two major pieces of legislation is probably sufficient to be going on with for the moment.

Mr. J. Higgins

I wish to raise on the Adjournment the urgent need for the Minister for Education to introduce a specific code of discipline for primary schools in the wake of a recently well-publicised court case.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning that matter.

Mr. Farrelly

Would the Taoiseach say whether the Government have taken a decision to abolish the rod licence?

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy. Deputy Howlin is offering.

Mr. Howlin

On the Order of Business would the Taoiseach say when it is proposed to take the Supplementary Health Estimate that was indicated to the Whips some two weeks ago?

The Taoiseach

That is a matter to be discussed between the Whips. I will endeavour to meet the Deputy's convenience, that is if he is there for the Whips' meeting.

Mr. Howlin

I never miss a Whip's meeting.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Taylor

May I ask the Taoiseach to indicate if and when the amending legislation promised by the Minister for Finance to implement the recommendations of the all-party committee on the national lottery will be introduced?

The Taoiseach

There is no such legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

Let us come to deal with the Child Care Bill——

Mr. Taylor

A Cheann Comhairle, this legislation was promised in reply to a Dáil question and the Minister indicated that he is considering certain proposals of the all-party committee. We want to know when that legislation will be forthcoming.

The Taoiseach

Decisions on that matter will be determined and communicated.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Paddy Harte is offering.

Mr. Harte

I wish to raise on the Adjournment this evening the question of making money available to correct a problem at Carndonagh, County Donegal, where sewage has been spilling into an open river for the past two years. I should like to raise this matter in particular after hearing the Minister for the Environment speak so laudingly at Ogra Fianna Fáil on Sunday——

An Ceann Comhairle

I will communicate with the Deputy concerning that matter.

Mr. Harte

The Fianna Fáil youth movement——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy may not elaborate now. Let us come to deal——

An Taoiseach

May I reply to Deputy Harte? I am very satisfied to know that Deputy Harte has paid such attention——

A Deputy

Here is wit coming up.

An Taoiseach

——to the very successful youth conference we had in Tralee last weekend.

Mr. Harte

It is called the Haughey youth movement.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

Order, please.