Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 22 Nov 1989

Vol. 393 No. 5

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Newly Formed Army Representative Body.

11.

Mr. Nealon

asked the Minister for Defence if he has given consideration to the granting of official recognition to the newly formed Army Representative Association known as PDFORRA; if he, his Department or the Army authorities have been asked for a meeting with the new association; the progress which has been made, following his instructions to the Chief of Staff in July 1989, with the establishment of a new structure in the Defence Forces for on-going consultations and information on remuneration and related matters for privates, non-commissioned officers and officers; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

16.

Mr. Rabbitte

asked the Minister for Defence if he has examined the draft constitution of the Permanent Defence Force Representative Association; if he has sought or intends to seek legal advice as to its compatibility with the law or regulations on matters relating to the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

24.

Mr. Gilmore

asked the Minister for Defence if, arising from the statement issued by the Government on 27 July 1989 regarding the instruction to the Chief of Staff to examine the structures for consultation in use in defence forces of other EC countries, he will indicate the countries the Chief of Staff has visited for this purpose; if it is intended to restrict such examination to EC countries only; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

40.

Mr. McCartan

asked the Minister for Defence the number of Defence Forces personnel who have indicated that they have joined the Permanent Defence Force Representative Association; if he intends to hold any discussions with the association; if he will ensure that there is no victimisation of the organisers of the Permanent Defence Force Representative Association; if he will facilitate discussions with the Defence Forces on the establishment of the association; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Mr. Lenihan

I propose to take Questions Nos. 11, 16, 24 and 40 together.

Earlier this year I instructed the Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces to make preparations for the establishment of a new structure in the Defence Forces for ongoing consultations and information on remuneration and related matters and for this purpose to examine the structures in use in the defence forces of other European countries. In recent months a number of non-commissioned officers and privates of the Permanent Defence Force submitted individual notifications indicating that they are contemplating the formation of a representative association.

These matters, which are very complex and have implications for command and discipline, require careful consideration before a decision is taken. The necessary studies have been in progress in consultation with the various authorities concerned and are being pressed ahead as quickly as possible. The military authorities have been in touch with their counterparts in a number of countries and have sent small teams to visit Britain and Denmark. Visits to a number of other countries are being arranged for the near future.

The three military teams which were recently engaged on the preparation of submissions to the independent Commission on Remuneration and Conditions of Service in the Defence Forces, are being consulted on the question of the proposed new structures.

All matters affecting the administration of the Defence Forces are enshrined in the Defence Force Regulations made under the Defence Act, 1954 and whatever structure emerges from the current studies will also be provided for in regulations. The development now in contemplation would represent a major policy change for the Defence Forces and therefore requires the most careful analysis, which is being done.

The whole matter is being thoroughly examined and will be brought to a conclusion with all due expedition.

Mr. Nealon

Is the Minister aware that the newly formed Army representative association have taken considerable legal advice and that legal advice is that they are entirely legal and in breach of no laws nor of the Constitution? Is the Minister's advice that the newly established association are legal and is he going to grant them recognition?

Mr. Lenihan

At present, this whole matter is being examined internally by the Chief of Staff and I have outlined the sort of investigations that are taking place. This is all happening now and discussions will be taking place in the weeks and immediate month or so ahead. There will be consultations between the three teams concerned, between the representatives of the three sectors in the Defence Forces and between the Army and my Department. It may require specific regulation to cater precisely for what is envisaged. There is a great deal to be teased out here as to the function. In principle I am agreeable to a structure of this kind, a representative group structure being established through which representations can be channelled and where the members of the Permanent Defence Forces can meet and organise and decide on what avenues they wish to pursue under what headings. All this has to be teased out and that is happening currently. It is a question of bringing all that together, and my task will be to encourage that over the next number of weeks.

An Ceann Comhairle

Let me say that the time available for priority questions is well-nigh exhausted. I was hoping we might be able to deal with the remaining question in Deputy Nealon's name, No. 13. If we proceed now we cannot deal with it.

Mr. Nealon

I will be happy to sacrifice my remaining question.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you.

Mr. Nealon

The Minister has not answered my last question, therefore let me put it in another way. Has the Minister any intention of preventing the newly formed Army representative association from operating as of now on a continuing basis?

Mr. Lenihan

The whole matter, as President Gorbachev said recently in another context, is in a state of flux at the moment. There is no such thing yet as a set-in-concrete structure. A number of discussions are going on among themselves within the Army and between the Department and the Army and the groups who are making representations to the commission. Therefore, we are currently in a state of flux in regard to the discussions on this matter and the headings under which——

Mr. Nealon

Is there any prohibition on the association operating now?

Mr. Lenihan

I said clearly to the Deputy that in principle I agree with some form of representative group structure and it is a question of how to organise that within the Army regulation, to devise a regulation that would cater for it, to decide the various headings, for instance welfare headings, educational headings——

A Deputy

If we had that two years ago we would not have this problem.