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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 10 May 1990

Vol. 398 No. 6

Marine Institute Bill, 1989 [ Seanad ]: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Prior to the adjournment of the debate I was discussing fish farming and the necessity for clarification by the Department of the Marine, which issues licences in this regard. I referred specifically to an article in The New Scientist of 26 August 1989 which dealt with research carried out by biologists who had detected an increasing number of wild salmon and other fish developing cataracts in one or both eyes and this blindness in the fish was being linked to the pesticide NUVAN 500 EC, which is used to control sea lice.

Have you got the name of those professionals?

I do not have their names but I am asking the Department to clarify the matter. If licences are to be issued by the Department for fish farms and if their development is to be an integral part of Government policy then the confusion created by the statements which have been issued countrywide by so called experts and by qualified experts would need to be cleared up.

Fish farming development should be an integral part of Government policy. If licences are issued to particular operators or organisations who have to spend substantial sums of money in this area, it is imperative that the chemicals used in the fish farms for the control of sea lice are absolutely safe. Various meetings take place throughout the country at which the planning conditions of such fish farms and the methods of fish stock production are discussed. As an unqualified expert in this area, I certainly cannot answer many of the questions that are raised at these meetings. The public become very confused when they hear stories about salmon being dumped. This matter comes under the aegis of the Department of the Marine and should be dealt with in such a way that nobody is left in any doubt about it.

The substantial decrease in the number of sea trout on the west coast has been linked in part to the development of fish farming, but I do not know whether there is any evidence to substantiate those rumours. As I have said, this matter should be dealt with by the Department of the Marine otherwise fish farming development will be seriously impaired due to the confusion and misinformation about these matters. Many of the county councils on the west coast have asked that this matter be dealt with. The health boards refuse to become involved — they say it is not their responsibility.

Chemicals are used in these fish farms and it is the responsibility of the Department of the Marine to ensure that they are not harmful to people who eat these fish. It is time to get rid of the Good Friday syndrome. Fish was always looked on as the poor relation because it was eaten on Fridays or fast days. The nutritional value of fish has also been very well determined and it is important that information be provided by the institute and the Department in that regard.

I accept the thrust of this Bill. The Minister is correct in adopting a single strategy and set of objectives for a clearly defined administrative structure. As I said, it is not necessary to have all aspects of the Marine Institute housed in one complex. The work is such that it has to be dissipated throughout several areas. In his reply I would like the Minister to tell us how much financial control the institute have. The Marine Institute should have control over funds issued to them by the Government, but I am not sure the same should apply to funds raised by private organisations or through various agencies, or funds from the EC. I would like further clarification on that.

There is still quite a long way to go in terms of oceanography. We have very little information on this matter despite the fact that there is a huge expanse of water around our coasts, including a vast area of the continental shelf to which I have already referred. We are also the first point of European contact with the Gulf Stream. There is great potential in this area and I hope the institute will have a role in carrying out research in this regard. We have always had problems in terms of getting sufficient fish quotas in Brussels and the Minister understands the difficulties involved. There is no reason we should not get involved to a much greater degree in non-quota fishing the Minister referred to that matter in his speech. I would like to think that with the setting up of the Marine Institute we would eventually have something akin to the Cousteau Oceanography Research Institute which have vast resources at their disposal and have information on all aspects on this matter.

The institute will stand or fall upon the person appointed by the Minister as chief executive officer. If that person has no interest or motivation and no real understanding of marine matters, the Marine Institute will be a nonsense. It is of fundamental importance for the determination of the very broad objectives outlined in the Minister's speech that the chief executive officer should have those qualities and should be given the necessary resources. As has been stated by others, the person appointed as chief executive officer should be able to set out a plan but you cannot satisfy everybody in this regard. I wish the Minister luck with this appointment which is fundamentally important for the development of the industry. I hope the Minister and his successors will provide the necessary resources to enable the Marine Institute to play their part in marine research and development.

Ba mhaith liom comhghairdeas a ghabháil leis an Aire Stáit ag Roinn na Mara as ucht an Bille tábhachtach seo a chur os ár gcomhair.

This is a very progressive and decisive step in the development of the marine economy and I thank the Minister for bringing the Bill before the Dáil today. For years research into mariculture in particular has been hindered and often neglected. It would be opportune for me to congratulate the Minister for Finance on the recent appointment of eight new scientists and five new laboratory technicians to the fisheries Research Centre at Abbotstown. It indicates the sincerity and commitment of the Government to marine research, expecially in the area of aquaculture, the environment, fish pathology and the investigation of new stocks.

Coming from a constituency — Donegal South-West — whose lifeline is the sea, it is apt that I should say a few words on this Bill. I hope the initiation of the Marine Institute will be of benefit to the industry. One of my greatest wishes for the Marine Institute would be in the area of research for new stocks of fish. This is vital because our fish quotas at present are based on historical performance and as a consequence we, as a nation, have suffered terribly with the constrictions of our existing fish quota. One of the ways out of this strangulation is to find new stocks and new species: some of these have been referred to recently such as blue whiting, scad — which is commonly known as horse mackerel in my constituency — and the argentine species. These new species will hold great potential for the Irish fishing industry and will be valuable not only on the home market — we will try to change the taste of the Irish people, something which is difficult — but also on the world market where these new species are very popular because of their high protein content.

Recently there was a Soviet research expedition which lasted five weeks and for the first time Irish scientists participated. The Polar Research Institute in Murmansk held a two-day conference on board recently in relation to the investigation of the population of blue whiting off our coast. We have discovered that the source is about 4.5 million tonnes which would be of great benefit to the fishing industry here. They have also carried out some research in relation to the make-up and serenity of our waters, and something which has been lacking in our research is samples of plankton and larvae in our waters which I hope will be brought for further evaluation. This research holds tremendous possibilities for new species and finding out the precise nature of existing stocks off our coast.

As the Minister is aware Irish fishermen are in the business of surviving and are also trying to establish new catches at a time when the mackerel quota has been a bone of contention for several years in the Dáil Chamber. They are trying to obtain a reasonable catch in the non-quota species so that in the event of their coming under the quota we would be able to get a fair share. The only way that can be done is to back up what we have by research, something which has been lacking and has hindered any possibility of progress in the fishing industry. In my estimation the EC have forgotten about research into existing fish stocks and future stocks, and have based their quotas etc. on mathematics. I should like to give an example. About three years ago the Killybegs Fishermens Organisation along with the Irish fish processors undertook a study because they were of the opinion that there was more than one stock of mackerel off the coast. To their delight and to the delight of the Irish people they found that there was an additional mackerel population off the coast of Ireland. As a consequence of that research we were able to renegotiate our mackerel quotas and secure an increase. That shows that research will be our greatest asset in going to the negotiation table in future in relation to any other fish species which I hope will become popular.

Under the new Marine Institute, which will be an umbrella for a plethora of institutes, I hope the Irish can participate fully in EC research and place us on a par with the other EC countries who have put a lot of resources into marine research and investigative work. I hope that the progress that appears to have been made on a small scale by a group of people in Killybegs can also be filtered through from a national point of view in relation to our fishing industry. I hope it will give encouragement to the industry which has often found that they were totally forgotten and the poor relation in our own economy as has been voiced in the House today. It will give great hope and increase the job potential of the fishermen and those who participate in the processing industry and all the other ancillary industries in the area.

Another very contentious issue, and one which is in the news at present, relates to aquaculture. I welcomed the Government's role in promoting fish farming because I felt it would help what I thought was a dying art, the small inshore fishermen, the small draft-net and drift-net men. I had hoped they would have taken up the gauntlet and set up co-operatives and fish farms but unfortunately anything that is good is often bled dry and taken advantage of and unfortunately that has been the case here. Now we have scares in relation to pollution of our waters from the number of fish farms in the area and the fact that they are not properly looked after and investigated by the Department. We have very little research on our own books in relation to aquaculture and how our waters could facilitate fish farming. I hope the institute will take a serious look at the situation. We should learn from the Norwegian experience where they found several difficulties in the fiords from the point of view of permission and also safety in a situation where many fish escape and inter-breed with the wild stocks. Research would help those who wish to participate in fish farming. It is an excellent initiative for this country. I hope it will not be marred by greed and lack of respect for our pollution-free waters, and that the Marine Institute will carry out greater research into fish farming.

One cannot be over-critical because one is giving only one side of the story. Fish farming is a great source of employment. In my constituency we have a very successful fish farming co-operative which has good relations with the Department. Because of that it has progressed and a number of jobs have been created especially for the small fisherman who participates only in the seasonal aspect of fishing, mainly inshore fishing for salmon. I know there has been consternation in relation to salmon stocks. Many of the inshore fishermen or the drift-net and draft-net men claim that our fish stocks of salmon are not as low as we think. They are asking that research be carried out as to the exact cause of a reduction in our salmon stocks. They are of the opinion that given a fair chance the inshore fishermen are not to blame. Enough breeding stock make their way up into the rivers but are not given a chance to spawn mainly because they are poached. Another problem may be pollution in the rivers. Research should be undertaken into that. One cannot contradict facts and this matter is of vital importance to the smaller fishermen many of whom I seem to represent.

The institute will be welcomed by many educationalists in regard to mariculture and oceanography because they find themselves almost in a limbo where there is very little co-ordination between different research units and there is overlapping in research. By pooling our resources under this Marine Institute we will benefit greatly from any research that can be carried out. I hope the Minister will indicate to the House the position of smaller research units which are under the auspices of RTCs or the Department of Education and whether they will be incorporated in the Marine Institute. Will they be under that umbrella or will they be used as a resource by the institute? I know the smaller research units do their best to be as economic and self-sufficient as possible, but I ask that they be incorporated or at least linked in some way with the Marine Institute wherever the headquarters will be. The institute will be of great benefit.

Let me refer to a small project we have in Killybegs, the Quality Assurance Laboratory, which was set up on a pilot basis and has been an excellent resource to the fishing industry in Killybegs. I hope some liaison will be established between the Marine Institute and this body because they have done tremendous work in relation to fat content and disease. People on the ground know the position and they can help a larger organisation in any studies.

We have a great deal of catching up to do if we are to compare with the Norwegians and the Dutch in regard to research. As the Minister said, we have an untapped resource which has tremendous potential. Perhaps we do not realise the asset our maritime island is to us. It is unfortunate that so few Members participate in the processing of legislation dealng with marine matters. That seems to be left to people like myself who represent an area in which there is a fishing industry or a related industry. I hope this debate will engender greater interest in marine related activities and will encourage greater participation by other industries.

We have an excellent resource in our fishing industry. I hope the institute will be well co-ordinated, directed and supported by everyone interested, by the Departments and the industries, and that they will take their place particularly within the EC in regard to research. I trust that the delay does not mean we are too far behind, especially in regard to new stocks and new breeds of fish, in going to the negotiating table and in trying to realise the full potential of the industry. I trust, too, that my appeal to people who are interested in marine activities will not fall on deaf ears, that there will be co-ordinated progress, that the institute will go from strength to strength and that we will have an industry which can claim to be one of the greater industries, on a par with agriculture, in the Community and here in the country.

I wish the Minister well. I trust the Bill will be passed without much difficulty and that the institute will be initiated as soon as possible.

I welcome this Bill which proposes to set up an institute which will carry out research and development of our marine resources. That is very welcome, assuming they do that job but I am sceptical. It has been stated over the years that no other maritime nation in the world has as little knowledge of the waters around it as Ireland. This is quite likely to be correct. We have shown an astonishing ability to neglect what could have been our greatest natural resource. As things stand it is probably 59th in the pecking order of our exploitation of natural resources. We have never really sought to do what should have been done in this regard since the foundation of the State. Primarily, we depend on charts from the British Admiralty dating back two or three centuries to find out where our ships are travelling. We depend on piers and harbours built by the British in the last century when it comes to bringing boats and cargoes ashore. We made a right hames, if I may use that word, of claiming mineral rights and, for that matter, territorial rights in respect of Rockall and the surrounding seabed. We let the British get there first. Although geographically we are closer to Rockall than is Britain, the Faroes or any part of Denmark, we still have not won the right to exploit the mineral wealth of that area. The matter is still in the melting pot and I have not heard in recent years of any serious attempt to further our claim to that massive area of potential wealth. We depend on the British primarily to finance the upkeep of our lighthouses and our lifeboats. We do not have the decency to acknowledge the assistance they are giving us. I accept that the general public made a contribution and that the Government in recent years have increased their contribution towards the maintenance of lighthouses, but the bulk of the money comes from the British. We begrudgingly give thanks to them or express our appreciation for the assistance the British Defence Forces give us in our efforts to save the lives of Irish citizens around our coast. On any occasion that there has been a ship in distress off our coast in the past 30 or 40 years, we have depended on British rescue services. Some people give the impression that they resent the British saving Irish lives but they cannot deny that we depend on their Navy and, in particular, on their Air Force and helicopter crews to rescue people off our coast.

Our attitude to the sea and servicing facilities to help us combat the dangers of the sea has been disgraceful. We have been very neglectful. I hope that the establishment of the institute marks a change in attitude and that something useful will be done. We have had nauseating scenes in the last seven or eight years of people from the west coast having to travel to Dublin and go on their knees begging for a proper rescue service off that coast. Such a service should be provided without question because of the inherent dangers involved in shipping and, in particular, in commercial fishing, off the treacherous west coast which is pounded in the calmest of weather by huge Atlantic swells.

People have had to travel to Dublin pleading with the Government. That neglect is a disgrace and it has not been dealt with despite the recommendation of a committee set up by the Minister's Department. Those people are blue in the face waiting for the Dauphin helicopters to be placed along the west coast. We have had those helicopters for two years and I do not think they have taken part in any sea rescues. Many people doubt if those helicopters are suitable because we continue to depend on the British Sea King helicopters to carry out rescue work. As recently as a couple of months ago those helicopters snatched people from the jaws of death and our rescue service was unable to do anything. That may be due to a lack of finance or to the fact that the helicopters were not suitable. We should not have to ask others to do that work for us.

The management of our maritime resources since the foundation of the State is a litany of neglect. In my time in politics the position has not improved. I have heard a lot of talk and seen many changes but they amounted to no more than changes in titles. I have not seen any progress. It is interesting to note some of the changes in titles that have taken place in the last 15 years. Fisheries was a minor part of the Department of Agriculture in the seventies and at a later stage it was tied up with the Department of the Gaeltacht. Later the Government established a Department of Fisheries and Forestry and, lo and behold, in the last ten years a separate ministry of Fisheries was established. However, that title has been changed and we now have the Department of the Marine. While those changes were taking place there was not any commitment to develop our maritime resources whether through research or by increasing the size of our fleet. In fact, our fishing fleet has been cut. Many of my constituents are unable to obtain a licence to purchase boats because of the decision to cut back on the tonnage. As a result of having some super trawlers, the ordinary fisherman cannot buy a new boat from outside of the State, not even a second hand vessel. Our fishermen are suffering as a result of that cutback in our quota.

A further complication has arisen in recent times. We have a division of responsiblities which makes it difficult to get a straight answer from any person when a problem arises around our coast. There are too many fingers in the pie and problems are passed from Billy to Jack. It appears that nobody wants to accept responsibility. Ostensibly, the Department of the Marine have responsibility not just for the sea but for the foreshore, the sea walls, the embankments and the roads that lead to the sea, but that is not the position. If one has a query about any of those matters one will find that one gets mixed up with the Department of Finance, the Department of the Environment and the Department of Tourism and Transport. That was clearly illustrated during the terrible storms last winter. Members who sought relief for damage caused during those storms found that nobody accepted responsibility. Queries were passed all over the place. I have accompanied three deputations to three Ministers. There has been a lot of messing and buck-passing.

There was a little movement from 1 January last because responsibility for the designated harbours was shifted from the Office of Public Works to the Department of the Marine. However, we continue to have a problem in that the foreshore is the responsibility of the Department of Tourism and Transport — at one time it was the responsibility of the Department of Transport and Power. The biggest problem of all is that the Department of Finance will not allow any work to be carried out until they decide whether money should be provided. More often than not they refuse to provide the money and that is why I am so sceptical about the Bill.

The Minister's speech is a beautiful piece of Civil Service rhetoric. I have no doubt that an official in the Department spent three or four days embellishing that script. The words are magnificent but the script could have been reduced to half a page. One could have covered everything in two or three sentences by stating that the institute would deal with research and development.

I should like to put a number of questions to the Minister. As far as I am aware the last research boat we had, the Cú Feasa went to the breakers' yard some years ago; that vessel was a relic before it went to the breakers-yard. I do not know what replaced it but, for years, we kept a boat that was past its best and it was impossible to do any worthwhile research.

Many self-indicting statements have been made in this House from time to time and another one in this mould today said that we still have not delineated our rights in regard to the continental shelf. I though that was all finished years ago, that our argument with the British and French had been concluded but — lo and behold — the Minister said in his speech that the question of the delimitation of the Irish continental shelf is unresolved. What are we doing about Rockall and our stake in the continental shelf?

The Minister made the point that if we get what we deserve our portion of sea bed under our jurisdiction will increase by as much as 40 per cent. There is a need for a tremendous effort, ingenuity and negotiating skills in this regard because, as we discovered over the last 23 years, the sea bed is potentially as rich as the mainland in terms of exploration. It is essential that we have the resources, manpower, money and equipment to carry out the kind of investigation which is necessary and to ensure that we get our proportion of the continental shelf. Those two matters have not yet been decided.

I am not quarrelling with the Minister because this is the fault of successive Governments. I hate using that expression because every time I go to meetings in my constituency or elsewhere I hear it and it sticks in my throat, but it is a great phrase for the hurler on the ditch who likes to tell politicians what to do. There is no need for the Minister to be defensive, it is better to be open about these matters.

The Department of the Marine are grossly under-manned, under-financed and incapable of doing the kind of work which the Bill envisages for them. I do not want to accuse anyone of telling untruths but, on a deputation to the Minister for the Marine about three or four months ago, I heard an official say that there is only one marine engineer in the Department of the Marine. I should like the Minister to clarify this statement. What resources are available? Are we capable of running a Maritime Institute? Is it just another piece of paper passing through this House or will it work? From my experience, I reckon it is just another piece of paper and not something which will work.

Are the Department of Finance prepared to give this new institute or the Department of the Marine the money to ensure that it works? My intuition tells me that they will not because the Department of the Marine are so far down the line that they will be shunted off the page when the sums are being done for the Estimates. The bigger Departments will get the money but the Department of the Marine will once again be ignored.

We are talking about research and development. I want to refer to the greatest scandal in this country in recent times, the discrimination against our inshore fishermen. One would think they were the outcasts of society because they are pursued, harassed and imprisoned year in, year out, for doing what they and their ancestors have done for centuries. The only additional money which has been provided for the Department of the Marine is for increased surveillance of inshore fishermen by the fisheries boards. Money has not been provided for research and development, just for harassment.

These people — and there are thousands of them — are the most hard working in the country and they go to sea in all types of weather in open boats. What happens at the end of the day? It is likely that some of them are arrested, prosecuted and imprisoned. That happened to a number of people in my constituency. If they are not sent to prison they are savagely fined. What was their crime? They were trying to make a living. How did they break the law? By catching fish, primarily salmon. One would think that they were doing tremendous damage to the fishing stocks in this country but that is not the case.

I have been listening for 25 years to people saying that, because of drift netting at sea, salmon stocks will be annihilated. The reverse is the case as catches prove. It is the science of simple mathematics. Salmon fishing is cyclical with catches high in some years and low in others. Catches in recent years have been better than those of 20 or 30 years ago despite the gloomy predictions of socalled experts. Will someone, for God's sake, come up with something logical in regard to salmon stocks because we have heard a load of rubbish over the years? Salmon stocks have not decreased. There are masses of salmon around our coast but because of our inability to provide a proper protection service and frame reasonable and rational laws and regulations the wrong people are catching the salmon. It is a disgrace to the institution of government that this imprisonment of decent, good and hard working people is continuing.

For the past 20 years a fleet of trawlers, which is not very big, has been operating off the west coast and using miles of monofilament net to catch salmon while on the other hand inshore fishermen who use open boats have to try to eke out a living. These fishermen are fair game for the bailiffs, the conservationists and the fishery boards. It is like catching goldfish in a goldfish bowl. These fishermen fish in a harbour or creek close to shore and they do not have a hope of escaping detection. They have to earn a living but their ability to do so has decreased tremendously since these trawlers, or half ships, off the west coast have been allowed to get away with blue murder.

The Minister for the Marine and the Minister for Defence should get their priorities right and apprehend the real culprits who are catching large quantities of salmon using monofilament nets. I am not asking for an open concession for these small fishermen; I am asking that a certain amount of monofilament net be legalised so that they can earn a decent living. People in coastal areas do not have any alternative where work is concerned. There are no factories in these areas and if people do not fish for a living they either have to emigrate or go on the dole. Therefore, it behoves the Government, on humanitarian grounds, to organise our fishing industry so that the people who have traditionally earned a living from fishing can continue to do so. Small fishermen should not be penalised by these trawlers who are taking their catches of salmon. It is a disgrace that this has been allowed to happen.

Many young people along our coasts fishing illegally have drowned while trying to earn some money but little publicity has been given to such incidents. If this happened in Dublin city or in any large city in an area for which the Government have responsibility there would be a massive outcry and this House would be in turmoil every day. As recently as three or four months ago two young men in my constituency drowned while out fishing. I wonder if the laws were as they should be would this have happened. About eight years ago two young men in another part of my constituency died because they took chances they should not have taken or would not have taken if the laws were as they should be. Those two young people went out in dangerous seas close to rocks. That sort of activity is not advisable but it happens because of the ineptitude on the part of the Government and the could not care less attitude by this House. It is a problem that will have to be faced up to.

In reply to a question on the Adjournment six months ago, the Minister gave me a routine Civil Service answer to the case I am making here today, he read out a script that had been prepared by a civil servant. This is no reflection on civil servants. They merely prepare material on the regulations as presented to them. These regulations and laws should be changed and the people to do it are the politicians. In this case the politicians are the Minister and the Minister of State at the Department of the Marine. People are dying because of a could not care less attitude by the Government. It is bad enough that people should have to go to prison, be heavily fined and suspended from fishing without their lives being put at risk. The Government should consider the humanitarian aspect of the question and come up with a solution. I believe a solution can be found and I hope they come up with it sooner rather than later.

Other speakers referred to our paltry rescue service, particularly the helicopter service for the west coast. This service needs to be re-examined. It is time we had a service similar to the American coastguard system. Nowadays many more people use the waters around our coast. There has been a huge increase in the use of pleasure boats, be they motorboats or yachts, and sail boards. The level of this type of activity has increased tenfold over the past 20 years as a result of a higher standard of living. Nowadays there can be as many as 50 or 60 boats in some harbours where there were only five or six boats 20 years ago. Many of the people who own these boats are not properly prepared for the elements when they go out in them. As people from a maritime county know, a storm can spring up in a half an hour and people who are not experienced in sailing can be put in very great danger. I have noticed that Dublin, Dún Laoghaire and Strangford Lough are particularly dangerous. This is probably because of the density of population in these areas. Many of these people come from the city and they do not have experience of the sea. Very often they do not have the very basics such as oars with them in case of an emergency and if an engine breaks down or the wind starts to blow off the land in a direction that endangers them, they are powerless.

What we need is a certain type of coastguard service, through a combination of boats and helicopters. One only has to observe this service in resorts abroad — in countries like Spain, Italy, the South of France or indeed the United States where their beaches are patrolled regularly not merely by boats and lifeguards but also by helicopters — to see how successful they are. We have made no such provision. We are not thinking sufficiently big. We are not thinking of the inherent dangers; we are taking a chance; everything in this country is a chance. The tendency is to save the money but, in this respect, it is penny wise and pound foolish.

There is indeed a need for a coastguard service for use by people at sea. After all, we must remember that the increase in water related leisure activities has been tremendous without any measures what-soever having been taken to cater for their inherent dangers. It is high time this matter was given consideration on a national basis, not leaving it to local authorities. It is too big an issue for them. Especially from this time of the year until, say, mid-September, there is a need for a constant patrolling of our coasts. There is no doubt but that a coastguard type service would be enormously beneficial.

Particularly on the east and south-east coasts such a service could be used in preventing the smuggling of drugs and arms which we suspect takes place but which we have very little chance of detecting with the facilities at present available to us. For example, we have a Naval Service badly over-stretched looking for Spaniards fishing within our 200 mile zone; they cannot be surveilling every little harbour around our coasts. Such a coastguard service is absolutely essential for several reasons, principally for safety of life but also in detecting the smuggling of arms or drugs. I must repeat: for God's sake, stop providing extra resources to harass good, hard-working people. Rather we should ensure that any resources available are spent on worthwhile activities, helping to save lives.

Some months ago at Question Time I raised with the Minister the compulsory wearing of life jackets or life belts by people who go to sea in small leisure boats in particular because of the danger of the type of incident to which I have just been referring, when people are unused to boating and get into difficulties. In replying the Minister said he was looking into the matter. Perhaps he could inform the House today whether there has been any movement in that regard.

Just as there are statistics of road accidents and injuries we should compile statistics on accidents, injuries and fatalities at sea. The publication of such statistics would jolt the public into a realisation that every year several dozen people lose their lives around our coasts because they were not wearing lifejackets or life belts. I have never seen such statistics published. Perhaps the Minister would take the initiative in this respect. It is my view from experience of recent events I have witnessed when fatalities occurred that, had lifejackets been worn, there would not have been loss of life. I shall be interested to hear the results of the Minister's deliberations since I raised that matter some months ago. It would be my hope that he would have a positive view to offer.

I know it is difficult for fishermen fishing on the decks of trawlers to wear lifejackets, they are somewhat cumbersome, but there should be some method devised whereby such people would have some safety gear readily available to them. I do know they use dinghies or lifejackets close by, though it is not feasible to use such gear when operating with nets and so on but, in the case of people going out purely for leisure type boating, or fishing with rods, they should wear a lifejacket; that should be a prerequisite of any such activity.

If the provisions of this Bill are fully implemented they could do tremendous good but my fear would be that, when the Department of Finance take out their scissors at Estimates time, we will be back to square one. Equally I would predict that the Minister's successor will then come along, promote some other idea, or another body, when he, in turn, will be thwarted in his efforts by the Department of Finance, which practice will continue until there is somebody in the Department of the Marine with the resolve and tenacity to get the necessary moneys to ensure that this is done successfully. Basically the idea is good, but, like the American expression some years ago if one did not believe something one said: "go and tell it to the marines", and this will be a case of: "go and tell it to the Department of the Marine". I predict one will not get the money, but will be shoved into the background. Unless the Minister and his Minister of State demonstrate attributes I have yet to witness, then I wager that my view will turn out to be correct at the end of the day much to the sorrow of our maritime community.

I intend to call Deputy Finucane who, I understand, will be brief and then Deputy Garland.

I am glad to be given a chance to speak on this Bill. It is an area with which I have long been concerned coming from a seafaring family very much interested in marine matters. As the Minister will be aware — he representing the same constituency — I serve on the Foynes Harbour Board which has a certain amount of contact with his Department.

Some of the difficulties to which previous speakers have referred might be more pertinent to harbour board activities. I will not go into that; that is for another day. I am pleased that the Minister, as Minister of State at the Department of the Marine, shares my constituency. I might place on record that we very much appreciate what he is doing for us in Foynes. If the Minister could expedite the peripheral programme of the national development plan for transport and roads, then possibly there would be good news for the area also. Again that will be for another day.

I am very interested in the provisions of this Bill. Indeed it should have preceded many of the developments that have taken place, particularly in aquaculture. Had it been established, when first mooted by Roinn na Mara in 1985, we might not have experienced some of our more recent difficulties in fish farming. Though the decision has been taken rather late in the day, we must welcome it as a sound one.

Deputy Deasy probably put his finger on the nub of the problem when he said that probably the proposed Marine Institute will have no teeth unless it has a pivotal role to play in the overall area of research and development. The only way that role can be properly fulfilled is through the provision of sufficient funds for that purpose. As he rightly said in relation to the budget, the Department of the Marine tend to be regarded as the Cinderella Department. This attitude will have to change. As we are aware, there is tremendous potential with regard to developments around our coastline.

I would like to dwell for a few moments on the aquaculture sector. There are now 200 fish farm units within the country with the potential to provide up to 2,000 jobs but the most important point to bear in mind in referring to these fish farms is that they are located in areas where potential industrialists would not be prepared to locate. Therefore it is absolutely vital that the development of this sector be controlled and co-ordinated. The recent protests in Waterville and Connemara are understandable given the lack of a marine institute in the past and the lack of research and development. The research and development which has taken place has been very fragmented and carried out by fish farming interests or by some learned professors in Galway University and so on.

This Bill is timely. Given that the national development plan envisages an expansion of fishing activities, particularly in the area of aquaculture, there is much scope for research to allay the genuine fears and concerns expressed by communities. It is unfortunate such concern has been expressed as we need those valuable jobs. It is estimated £40 million was earned by the aquaculture sector last year. This is a substantial figure but we should also take into account the income earned by those companies which supply the equipment necessary for fish farming.

This is an important sector but it has been getting a bad press in recent times. To counter this we need a marine institute with teeth comprised of people with experience. The chemical Nuvan has been mentioned several times today and is on everybody's lips when they speak about fish farming. While we do not know very much about the effects of this chemical, there is a necessity to replace it with something else. I hope the Marine Institute will work in harmony with fish farming interests to create jobs and allay the genuine fears which have been expressed.

Last year 6,200 tonnes of salmon were produced but when we contrast this with a figure for Scotland at 27,000 tonnes annually and with Norway at 140,000 tonnes we can see the scope available to us. The one thing we have going for us is that it is accepted internationally that what we produce is of top quality.

This sector is dependent on science and technology and therefore the work of the Marine Institute is imperative to its growth. There has already been significant advances, such as genetic feeding, but, as I said earlier, we need more research.

I would like to support what was said by my colleague about in-shore fishermen. I will not dwell for too long on this matter as my colleague, Deputy Deasy, has covered all the points that need to be raised. One of the valid points he made is that many of the fishermen who depend on fishing for their livelihoods are being harassed and penalised. It is also true that the large trawlers prevent salmon from going up the estuary by setting nets across it. I often wonder if the State goes after these trawlers with the same vigour as is applied in the case of our inshore fishermen.

Another question the Marine Institute will have to consider and which, again, was referred to by Deputy Deasy, is that of foreshore licences. I always find it remarkable that the Department of Tourism and Transport and the Department of Finance are so much involved in this area. One would expect the Department of the Marine to be solely concerned with this issue. It appears also that there are considerable delays in the issuing of licences for fresh water farm fishing of fish culture. This is something the Marine Institute help to resolve.

In conclusion, I wish the institute well. The sooner we get it established and the sooner people with expertise in the area of research and development are appointed the better as we will then be able to develop what is a very important resource. It has been stated many times in the past that this industry has great potential. Let us now do something tangible. This Bill may be a step in the right direction but the institute will only be successful if sufficient finance is provided. That is where the true fight will take place.

As an island state it is appalling that successive Governments have taken so long to recognise the importance of the marine environment. In the early years of this century Ireland was ahead of many other European countries in investigating marine resources both on-shore and off-shore, including fisheries and seabed organisms. For example, in 1890 and 1891 the Royal Dublin Society undertook a survey of the fishing grounds off the west coast using the chartered yachts, Fingal and Harlequin. The Government contributed less than half the cost of this research. Again, in 1898 the RDS re-entered the field of marine research with a project to establish a marine laboratory in order to undertake a five year study of mackerel and salmon. The laboratory was set up in 1899 on board a 220 ton brigantine The Saturn of Galway.

Soon afterwards the fisheries branch of the new Department of Agriculture on technical instruction took over the laboratory. This work was supplemented by a fisheries protection cruiser, The Helga, which was built at Ayr in 1891. A second ship, also called The Helga was built specially for the Department of Agriculture on technical instruction in 1908. This ship was also fitted out for marine and fisheries research work and had a laboratory on board.

In the years following independence marine research was seriously downgraded by successive Governments. A Minister for Fisheries was appointed in 1922 but his function seemed to be purely administrative. For decades the Department of Fisheries was shuffled about between the Department of Lands and the Department of Agriculture as a minor appendage to one or the other. In 1952, An Bord Iascaigh Mhara were set up and soon began to recognise the need for basic marine research. Unfortunately, very little was in progress at the time.

In the sixties the Marine Research Laboratory at Carna became a major shellfish research station but it, too, was harmed seriously through inadequate and uncertain funding. For many years there were arguments between the Department of Education and the National Science Council, later to become the National Board for Science and Technology, as to who should fund it. During this period staff members went for months at a time without salaries. Also during the eighties there was a Government proposal to establish a marine institute in Galway and for the Department of Fisheries to move west to a site at Galway docks. In the eighties a marine institute task force was established with the job of reporting to the Minister for the Marine. The report of the task force was handed to the Minister shortly after the establishment of the Department of the Marine in 1987 but nothing has since been seen either of the report or of its recommendations. This report should be published immediately and I call on the Minister to do so as soon as possible.

This present Bill is very welcome in that it at least appears to recognise the importance of the marine environment and marine resources. However, it is based on an extremely narrow definition of the purpose of a marine institute and makes no reference to the need for greater understanding of the marine environment that we may safeguard it and utilise its resources without causing damage to marine ecosystems.

The Bill contains no provision for increasing public awareness of the marine environment either locally or globally. Neither are there any references to the intrinsic importance of the oceans to Ireland, to Europe and to the world. Instead we have a Bill which looks on the marine environment as something to be exploited and developed purely for financial gain. Marine research is not regarded as something intrinsically valuable in itself but as something to be marketed as a chargeable service, in other words, a purely monetary or profit oriented activity.

The Minister referred to one of the functions of this institute as dealing with research and aquaculture. Previous speakers, particularly Deputy Kenny, dealt at length with the grave misgivings which are being expressed all over this country about fin fish farming. It is a pity that this institute was not put into being some years ago when adequate research could have been done in this area because people are very concerned about it. I also attended as part of a deputation to the Department of the Marine two or three months ago and I was appalled to hear how scanty their resources are. They admitted to me that they had inadequate resources to monitor the existing marine and inland fin fish farms. They further admitted that even if they had sufficient resources the legislation was inadequate. In spite of these obvious drawbacks they are still continuing to issue licences for fin fish farming. This behaviour is extremely irresponsible. We in the Green Party, Comhaontas Glas, have called for a five year moratorium on fin fish farming. That is a very reasonable proposal and I hope it will be taken on board and that this new marine institute will make a serious effort to research the problems in this area.

Let me refer briefly to what Deputy Finucane said about the quality of our farm salmon being renowned throughout the world for its quality. I certainly deny that. The quality of our sea salmon is undoubted but the same cannot be said about our farm salmon.

Tá lúchair orm deis a bheith agam cúpla focal a rá maidir leis an mBille seo, an Bille um Fhoras na Mara, 1989. Ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimhe. Is mór an trua nár tugadh Bille mar seo isteach i bhfad roimhe seo. Táthar ag caint ar institiúid mhara a bhunú le beagnach fiche bliain, agus is mór an trua nach raibh sé ar bun i bhfad roimhe seo. Go díreach, le tamall ansin bhí mé ag breathnú ar roinnt nótaí agus chonaic mé go bhfuil an-chuid institiúidí sa tír seo. Bhí mé ag breathnú ar Eolaí Teileafóin ansin agus chuntas mé daichead a haon institiúid: Institiúid an Ard Léinn, Institiúid Leighis, Institiúid Theangeolaíochta, agus tá institiúid ann faoi choinne beagnach gach gné de shaol na tíre. Is mór an t-uafás ar fad nach raibh a leithéid seo ar bun faoi choinne acmhainn chomh luachmhar le hacmhainn na farraige agus acmhainn na mara agus acmhainn na hiascaireachta. Mar a dúirt cainteoirí a chuaigh romham, tá neamart an-mhór ar fad déanta ann le cianta anuas agus má tá an institiúid ar bun anois féin, tá sé thar a bheith in am dó.

Aontaíonn gach duine, gur ceann de na hacmhainní nádúrtha is luachmhaire atá againn ná an fharraige agus an méid atá ansin. Sílim nach ndearna muid forbairt cheart air leis na blianta anuas. Ceann de na fáthanna nach ndearna muid forbairt cheart uirthi, i mo thuairim, ná nach raibh polasaí ceart forbartha mara sa tír seo. Bhíomar ag dul ó bhliain go bliain agus ó lá go lá agus nuair a amharcann muid ar an staid ina bhfuil tionscal na hiascaireachta agus tionscal na mara i láthair na huaire, tuigimid an gá atá le polasaí fiúntach cuimsitheach a bhaineann le hiascaireacht agus leis an mhuir agus leis an aigéan atá thart orainn, agus sílim gur sin ceann de na deacrachtaí a bhí againn nach raibh foras nó institiúid mar seo againn faoi choinne polasaí a mhúnlú agus a chur inár láthair.

Go deimhin, le blianta anuas, ní raibh sa Roinn Iascaireachta ach fo-roinn den Roinn Talmhaíochta, agus, ar feadh tamaill ansin, bhí sé ina fho-roinn den Roinn Foraoiseachta. Is le cúpla bliain anuas a cuireadh roinn dá chuid féin ar fáil don iascaireacht, Roinn na Mara. Nuair a bhí an Rialtas a chuaigh romhainn ag plé leis an Eoraip bhí siad ag iarraidh ár sciar den iasc atá san fharraige a fháil nuair a cuireadh an polasaí iascaireachta ar bun ag an leibhéal Eorpach. Nuair a chuaigh ár gcuid daoine anonn ansin le margadh a dhéanamh ar ár son, sílim dá mbeadh níos mó eolais acu agus dá mbeadh institiúid mhara ansin leis an taighde uilig agus an eolas uilig a chur ar fáil dúinn, go mbeadh lámh i bhfad níos láidre le himirt againn, agus gurbh fhéidir go mbeadh margadh i bhfad níos fearr againn ná mar a d'éirigh linn a fháil.

Tá sé ráite go mion agus go minic go bhfuil 25 faoin gcéad d'fharraige agus d'uisce an Chomhphobail thart orainne ach, mar sin féin, nach bhfuil de chead againn a thógáil amach as sin de réir an chuóta ach 4 faoin gcéad den iasc. Dá mbeadh an t-institiúid nó an foras seo ar bun le fiche bliain nó cúig bliana déag anuas bheadh an t-eolas agus an taighde ann agus bheimis ábalta dul ansin agus margadh i bhfad níos fearr a fháil. Tá lúcháir orm go bhfuil siad chun an institiúid a chur ar bun ansin leis an mBille seo mar, nuair a bheidh athscrúdú le déanamh ar an bpolasaí iascaireachta amach anseo i gceann bliana nó dhó eile, b'fhéidir, ar a laghad, go beidh toradh éigin ar obair na hinsititiúide agus beidh sé sin ar fáil do na daoine a chuirfimid anonn chun margadh fiúntach a fháil dár gcuid iascairí.

Tagaimse ó chontae agus ó dháil-cheantar go bhfuil an iascaireacht mhara tábhachtach, agus caithfidh mé a rá go bhfuil an tionscal sin in ísle bhrí ar fad anois. Ní fhaca mé le fada riamh rudaí chomh holc agus atá anois. Tá cúpla rud ag cur isteach ar an tionscal iascaireachta faoi láthair. An chéad rud ná na cuotaí seo.

The development of our fishing industry is badly handicapped by the imposition of quotas at EC level. The mackerel quota is very relevant to County Donegal because a good mackerel season provides not alone employment for many hundreds of fishermen, who are fishing out of Killybegs and other ports in the west but also provides a great deal of employment for the many hundreds of people who are engaged in the processing industry on shore. I blame the inadequate mackerel quotas for the fact that we did not have a Marine Institute at our disposal to advise our negotiators in years gone by. As I have already said in Irish I hope we will have researchers at the Marine Institute at the disposal of our negotiators when we come to review the common fisheries policy in a year or two. We are constrained by the quotas. Indeed the entire mackerel fishing fleet was tied up at the pier in Killybegs for eight weeks prior to the end of last year. The quotas are being reduced year after year.

Another reason for the difficulties we are experiencing at present is the question of licences and the fact that licences are tied to the gross registered tonnage we are allowed. Again we are approaching this matter on a non-scientific basis. We are obliged by the EC to reduce our gross registered tonnage by 16 per cent per annum. We are well over the limit at present and until we succeed in doing that we will be hampered by not being allowed any extra licences. Languishing in the Department are about 300 applications, some from the many young people starting off, and they have no idea whatsoever when these licences will be issued or if they will ever be issued. Certainly this does not lead to development in the fishing industry or the exploitation of the potential of one of our greatest natural resources.

We have to use the expertise available at EC level because we have not got our own expertise. We have not done our own research except in a limited sort of way. However, we cannot overlook the research that has been carried out by bodies such as Údarás na Gaeltachta. Is fíor a rá go bhfuil Údarás na Gaeltachta ina gceannródaithe ar an taighde atáthar á dhéanamh le roinnt blianta anuas, chomh fada agus a bhaineann sé le feirméireacht éisc. Chomh maith le hÚdarás na Gaeltachta tá Coláiste na hOllscoile i nGaillimh agus an Coláiste Réigiúnach i Leitir Ceanainn i gceist freisin. Tá cúrsa fheirméireacht éisc ar siúl ansin.

We have very limited facilities available. It is very necessary to have a Marine Institute to formulate policy and to prepare our negotiators meetings at EC level and in other areas.

As a result of the ban on new licences and on assistance in the purchase of new boats, we have an aging fleet. Many of our fishing vessels range from 20 to 40 years old. Many of the vessels are older than the crews manning them and that leads to dangers. It certainly does not lend itself to safety at sea which should always be a very important aspect of the fishing industry and marine matters in general.

I hope there will not be any further undue delay in establishing the Marine Institute. The Bill was introduced in the Seanad and is now going through the Dáil. I hope the board and chief executive of the new Marine Institute will be in place before the end of this year.

The institute should give top priority to a number of areas; first, it should provide the research and information to formulate a national marine and fishing policy. It is about time we had a five year plan for this industry. We have not had one to date. We need a plan based on fact, on what we can do. It is very easy to say, "we will develop the fishing industry, we will create 3,000 or 4,000 new jobs" but we must take action to bring about such development. We have had experience of such optimism in the past but nothing happened. The new institute must have the facilities and resources to carry out research and development so that any plan or policy formulated will be based on fact and results can be achieved. Second, the institute should concern itself not alone with the fish in our seas and how we can develop that sort of industry but also with minerals, oil and the other resources available along our coasts. It is true that we do not have the same power or control, or indeed sovereignty over our seas as we had ten to 20 years ago. We had to sacrifice this to the EC and that is another reason that it is rather late in the day to be establishing a Marine Institute.

As previous speakers have mentioned, I believe the institute should devote its attention to the whole area of mariculture and fish farming. Ten or 20 years ago no one could envisage what was possible in this area. I have visited fish farms in Galway and in my own county and I have seen hundreds if not thousands of fine salmon in cages. There is controversy surrounding this industry because of the use of chemicals and so on. If fish farms, or salmon farms are in a confined area, there is a danger that they will cause pollution and the new institute must direct its attention to finding out the extent of pollution caused by fish farms located in enclosed areas. It is important that the problem is solved because a clean environment is in everybody's interest.

The fishing of wild salmon is now very controversial. We are coming into the fishing season, and I am sure the Minister of State agrees with me that we can expect controversy and trouble along the coast from Donegal to Cork during the months of June, July and August. Of course, I am referring to the methods of fishing and the use or non-use of monofilament nets. A previous Minister, who is no longer a Member of this House, Mr. Paddy O'Toole, established the salmon review group in 1985 to examine the whole area of wild Atlantic salmon, the method of catching the fish and how the stocks could be conserved. The report was issued. Indeed submissions were subsequently sought from all the interested parties when the report was published. The submissions were made, but for the past two years little or nothing has been heard of the report. Indeed many drift-net fishermen would find the recommendations of that report very acceptable. Even though there was very little representation from the drift-net fishermen on the review group, the group recommended the legalising of monofilament net of a limited length, I think of about 1,500 to 2,000 metres. That recommendation came from the experts appointed by the Minister and the Government at that time.

A number of other very good recommendations were made such as a five day week, a limited season, a limited size of boat and so on. Deputy Coughlan, who spoke earlier, along with other Deputies including myself attended a meeting in Donegal a few weeks ago at which there were 300 to 400 fishermen who were very apprehensive as to what was going to happen with regard to wild Atlantic salmon fishing this year and in years to come. The Minister and the Department should inform the fishermen in this regard. The fishermen are as much in favour of conservation as anyone else. They know they have to depend upon renewed stocks of salmon year after year in order that they can continue fishing. If this matter is not dealt with this year I suggest that the Marine Institute come forward with recommendations. The trouble with the fishing industry and anything to do with the marine is that there are books and chapters of recommendations, all of which are left on shelves gathering dust, but nothing is ever implemented. My hope for this institute is that whatever recommendations they make or whatever reports they issue will be acted upon.

One of my reservations about the institute is that their powers seem to be very limited. Perhaps they should have more teeth. Will they be able to implement their own recommendations or will the Minister and the Department implement them? One area to which they should direct their attention is that of coastal erosion. It has been mentioned in the House on numerous occasions in the last few years that this problem is becoming more serious every year. Perhaps this is due to the storms or perhaps we are not as assiduous as we were in the years gone by in building protective walls and barriers to prevent coastal erosion.

Deputy McGinley is travelling into very wide waters.

I am merely suggesting areas that the new institute——

This is about marine research and development. I know that — especially with the Deputy's wonderful imagination — he could touch on many matters but I think he has enough competence to know precisely what will be the immediate interest and functions of the institute. It is stretching the imagination rather far to think that the most immediate interest would be coastal erosion, a factor connected with the fishing industry which Deputy McGinley has been dealing with very comprehensively and efficiently. We have to limit ourselves a little more to the purpose of the legislation.

I merely wanted to indicate that there are various experts living in coastal areas who would suggest that if the right type of grass — bentgrass, or as you and I would call it muiríneach which was used to thatch houses in coastal areas — was growing along the coast, it would be as good as any protective wall in preventing coastal erosion. I am merely suggesting that the experts who will be employed by the institute could perhaps carry out some research into this area. If they could come up with a type of sea grass, coastal grass or sandygrass that would be suitable for the job, it might help save millions of pounds in building walls that would be knocked down in the next storm anyway. É sin ráite is féidir liom, le do chead, dul ar aghaidh go dtí ábhar eile.

The Environmental Protection Agency have said they are concerned about sea pollution. Perhaps the Marine Institute would have something to contribute in that area also.

Even though we have not had an institute up to now, nevertheless there is a tradition that we are leaders in invention when it comes to matters relating to the sea. A few nights ago I was reading a most interesting book by Dr. John de Courcy Ireland on marine history in which he said that the inventor of the submarine, John Philip Holland, was an Irishman and also that the inventor of the harpoon gun was, I am proud to say, a Donegal man. Many other items were invented here which are of benefit to fishermen and seafaring people. We are an island and we are interested in the seas. We have had some great sailors going back to St. Brendan and St. Columba. If the institute have the expertise to rationalise and co-ordinate all these matters, there is an excellent future for the industry. I am sure there will be good results from the endeavours of this institute.

I agree with most of the sections in the Bill. Section 4 deals with the functions of the institute. It states:

The Institute shall have the following general functions, namely, to undertake, to co-ordinate, to promote and to assist in marine research and development and to provide such services related to marine research and development, that in the opinion of the Institute will promote economic development and create employment.

I think we would all agree with the sentiments expressed there. Section 6 deals with charges for services. We are coming around to the idea that not alone do goods not come free but services have to be paid for also. I hope the charges will not be too high because, after all, the institute will be funded by the Irish taxpayer and the charges should not be out of the reach of most people who are interested in this matter.

Section 7 deals with the appointment of a chief executive officer. It is very important that this be a person with vision, commitment and expertise. The role of the chief executive of any semi-State body is very important and the chief executive appointed to the Marine Institute could be the make or the break of the institute. The chief executive will be subject to the conditions and the regulations that apply to the chief executive of any other State body. Section 10 states that a Member of either House of the Oireachtas or of the European Parliament cannot be a member of the institute and I believe that applies to most semi-State bodies. If the chief executive or a member of the board is elected to the Dáil or Seanad or to the European Parliament he will cease to function as a member or as chief executive of the board.

Section 17 deals with scholarships and grants. The institute should have the power to give scholarships and grants to people who wish to pursue a course in marine biology or the marine generally and they should use those powers. In my constituency, as in most coastal constituencies, young men and women who are interested in the marine may wish to pursue their studies further in another country and I hope the necessary funds will be made available to the institute to provide grants for that purpose.

Section 18 deals with reports and information to be sent to the Minister. As I have said earlier, I hope these reports will be acted upon.

There is always the danger when a Minister is empowered to appoint people to any board that he may appoint them because of their political persuasion rather than any other qualification. I hope that people from Údarás na Gaeltachta, An Bord Iascaigh Mhara, the universities, third level colleges and those who have already made a name for themselves in the marine industry, will be considered for such positions. People with vision, expertise and commitment to this industry should be appointed to the board. The chief executive and the board members are important and only people of the highest calibre should be selected. I hope the Minister will be able to do that when the time comes.

The establishment of the Marine Institute is coming late in the day — is fearr go mall ná go breá. There are other areas I am concerned with, namely, the powers and the authorities of the institute. I do not know how effective they will be. There does not appear to be a commitment to site headquarters in any specific place; there will be branches all over the country. Previous speakers asked to have the headquarters in Dublin, in the south and in the west. Coming from the constituency of Donegal South-West, where we have the major fishing port of Killybegs, there are many people there who have a great knowledge of fishing and the marine. If the Minister is to select a place, perhaps Killybegs would also come into his reckoning.

I hope adequate resources will be given to the institute when established to allow them to carry on this important work which has been neglected for so long. The future of our fishing industry and the development of this great national resource will depend on the effectiveness of the institute. I hope for the benefit of everyone, particularly for the people I represent from coastal areas and for the economy in general that they will be successful in their endeavours. If they are we will be able to thank them on behalf of all the people.

Limerick West): I thank Deputies from all sides for their valuable contributions which ranged far and wide — we fished very extensively all day. Many of the points raised were very wide of the mark, indeed, some were inaccurate. I will reply to the pertinent points but not to the wide ranging points raised. I will also respond to areas where inaccuracies were stated as I want to put the record straight.

I agree with many Deputies that the appointment of the board and the chief executive is of paramount importance. The calibre of the board and the chief executive will determine the outcome for good or bad of the Marine Institute. I should like to give a commitment this afternoon that the members of the board and the chief executive will be of the highest calibre and will be selected for what they can contribute to research into all areas of the marine rather than for reasons outlined by many Deputies.

I have taken note of all the contributions which were in keeping with the Bill, and other contributions as well, and I will comment on a number of them in due course. I would like to avail of the opportunity to remind Deputies of my opening remarks regarding the purpose and the main element of this Bill.

The Bill enables me to establish the Marine Institute. In so doing it seeks to address the necessity in a maritime nation like ours for the development of marine resources. The marine area constitutes a major but under-developed natural resource and offers significant opportunities in terms of wealth and employment creation for a broad range of industries. We cannot, however, capitalise on these opportunities until we can measure the resources, understand how they behave and devise the most effective methods for their exploitation. I feel that the Marine Institute will fill the gap in our knowledge. It will provide the neccessary vehicle which is so important for the development of the marine resources throughout a wide range of sectors.

It is my earnest hope that the Marine Institute will play a leading role in the development of marine industries in Ireland. Indeed, the institute will be an essential element in the development of these industries. As has been stated by many Deputies today, there are a wide range of organisations involved in marine research in Ireland and the purpose of the Marine Institute Bill is to co-ordinate and to bring together the work of these organisations. By this co-ordination both the gaps and the overlaps which currently exist between Government Departments and other agencies operating both within and outside the marine field, will be eliminated. It will also ensure the rational development of the resources. The establishment of the institute will lead to a major improvement in the efficiency and the effectiveness of the marine research undertaken within the State.

I come now to deal with some of the points raised. Deputy Taylor-Quinn made statements regarding the funding of the institute and the whole marine related area. I have stated that £900,000 is included in the Estimate for all research and development activities, including the Marine Institute.

How much for the institute?

(Limerick West): It is £110,000, but that is all that will be required this year. It is in 1991 that the funding will be required because at the time the board and the chief executive will be appointed. The funding being made available this year will be adequate to meet their needs.

I agree with Deputy Taylor-Quinn that we should learn from other European countries. The purpose of the task force was to examine that aspect and it has been taken into account very positively in drawing up plans for the institute. The question of the gross registered tonnage was raised. Of course, that does not come in under the Bill but, being courteous to the Deputy, as I always am——

As usual, and it is very much appreciated.

(Limerick West):——I will tell her that the Department are currently addressing registration and licensing and the new register is being prepared; it is almost finalised. A report on the licensing is with the Minister and myself at present.

When will the Opposition spokesperson get a chance to see the report?

(Limerick West): In due course. Do not worry. You can rest assured, Deputy, that marine research and all marine areas are in safe hands.

I have no doubts.

Could we terminate this tete-a-tete and ask the Minister to address the Chair, otherwise he will be the victim of the allurements of the Deputy opposite. He should address the Chair.

He does not succumb that easily.

(Limerick West): I would not like to be victimised in that way.

The increase in research manpower which has been authorised will probably be allocated to new fisheries research and various aspects of aquacultural development. I understand the first of these appointments will be made very shortly.

The institute will have a single headquarters. Many Deputies agree that it makes no sense to relocate all marine research to this headquarters because marine research by its very nature has to be carried out in a wide range of places and at a number of coastal locations. Research in university laboratories will be associated with the work of the institute through an active programme of contract funding so that the universities can carry out pure research to back up the research of the institute. The intention of section 22 (4) is to provide an incentive to discoverers and inventors to ensure that those people do not leave the institute as the Deputy feels might happen. UCG have no data on fish stocks which could form a data base. The fisheries research centre is the only agency active in the field of scientific resource evaluation.

Many Opposition Deputies raised the matter of EC funding for research and it has been suggested that opportunities of finding ways and means of utilising EC funding were not taken up. In 1989 and 1990 a total of £1.72 million was allocated by the EC to Irish led research projects. Additional projects in which Irish scientists were involved as co-workers — not as project leaders — received £0.84 million. This gives a combined total of £2.56 million allocated directly and indirectly during those years. Funding will continue to be allocated. Deputy Howlin mentioned funding to EOLAS for research. That funding will be earmarked for marine research and will not be absorbed by EOLAS for general research. I have dealt with the funding for the institute in 1990.

There will be specific programmes of research. The decision on the programmes of research will be one of the first tasks of the board of the institute. It would not be appropriate for me to preempt what decisions will be taken by the board in that regard.

Deputy Gilmore raised the definition of the seabed. That is outlined in the Bill. "Marine" means "of, near, concerned with the sea and tidal waters". That is the definition, so that does not preclude the seabed which is near or of the sea. The Continental Shelf is not excluded from the functions of the institute. I explained that in depth in my speech, it is included with a number of other areas in section 4 (1) of the Bill which defines the institute's general functions.

Significant funds have already been received by Irish research agencies under EC fisheries and aquaculture research programmes. Applications for funding under the EC MAST programme, which is marine, science and technology, are in the EC pipeline so there is no slip-up there so far as the Department are concerned.

As I pointed out in my speech, arrangements will be made for the inclusion or association of marine research agencies with the new institute. This is also provided in sections 4 and 8 of the Bill. It would not be appropriate, and would be unnecessarily restrictive, to name the agencies in the Bill. This matter also was raised by a number of Deputies.

The Department of the Marine have already dealt with the question of fish quotas and work has commenced on the preparation of the case for improvement on quotas for Irish fishermen in the context of the review of the Common Fisheries Policy which will be taking place very shortly. Moneys will be made available to the institute from many sources, including the State and outside agencies.

Deputy Coughlan raised a question about small research agencies and I should like to tell her that State funded research agencies which are not part of any Government Department will be associated with the institute through work commissioned by them. This is provided for in section 4 (2) (3).

Deputy Deasy raised a number of points to which I should like to respond. He referred to the purchase of boats. It is not true to say that people cannot buy new boats. However, because of EC limitations on tonnage the size of the fleet is limited and that means that if new tonnage is added to the fleet old tonnage must go. The Deputy referred to the old research vessel and I should like to tell him that that vessel did not go to the breakers' yard. It was handed over to An Slua Mhuiri in 1975 and for the last four years it has been fishing out of Howth under private ownership. I should like to tell the Deputy that Ireland has a national research vessel which has been operating since the mid-seventies. The Lough Beltra is operating very successfully for the Department of the Marine, BIM, the geological survey, the universities and other agencies.

Deputy Deasy said he understood that the Department of the Marine have one engineer. I should like to tell him that there are four marine engineers/ surveyors in the Department of the Marine, three stationed in Dublin and one stationed in Cork. In addition, there are 16 civil engineers employed by the Department. I should like to correct another inaccuracy by Deputy Deasy. The forehore is now under the control of the Department of the Marine and not the Office of Public Works as he stated.

Deputy Garland was concerned about public awareness. One of the aims of the Institute, as provided for in section 4 (3), will be to promote and organise seminars, conferences, lectures and so on and to collect, maintain and disseminate information. The Marine Institute will have the functions set out in section 4. In general they will undertake to co-ordinate, promote and assist in marine research and development and provide such services related to marine research and development that, in the opinion of the institute, would promote economic development and create employment.

Following the establishment of the Marine Institute the persons currently involved in marine research in State funded organisations may be transferred by agreement from their parent Department to the Department of the Marine and thence to the institute. Those transfers will be by agreement and will be effected in consultation with all the parties concerned. It is important that all funding which was previously allocated to marine research and marine related research should continue to be so allocated following the establishment of the institute. It is because of the universally agreed priority attaching to marine research that it is my aim that the funding allocated to the Marine Institute from the Excherquer and EC sources will be increased in future.

A number of Deputies complained that the establishment of the Marine Institute is coming too late. I cannot accept that criticism because work on the preparation of the Bill has been taking place for a long time. We wanted to ensure that the Bill would cover all the issues which must be part of the Marine Institute. I am satisfied that the work and the time taken have produced a Bill which will be a blueprint for an institute of which we can all be proud and which will satisfy all our needs in the area of marine research.

A number of Deputies complained that the work of agencies, such as Údarás na Gaeltachta and the universities, is not recognised in the Bill but I should like to draw their attention to sections 4 and 17 which deal with those issues. I should like to assure members that I am fully aware of the contribution made by those agencies to marine research in Ireland and it is my intention to encourage a continuation of that contribution. The Marine Institute will harness the expertise of those agencies in their work in the future.

I agree with those who pointed out that the board of the institute and the chief executive will have a major bearing on the success of the work of the institute. It is important to emphasise that we must choose a chief executive and board members of the highest calibre. For that reason I have provided in paragraph 2 of the Schedule that the members of the board shall be appointed by virtue of their experience in fields of expertise relevant to the functions of the institute.

A number of Deputies referred to the importance of the collection, maintenance and dissemination of information on marine research. I agree that that is most important and to ensure that it will happen I have included section 4 (2) (e) which provides that the Marine Institute shall have the function to collect, maintain and disseminate information relating to marine matters.

The other points raised by Members will be taken into consideration by me and the Department and, in due course, will be considered by the institute when preparing their programme of work.

I commend the Bill to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

(Limerick West): Next Tuesday, 15 May 1990, subject to agreement between the Whips.

Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 15 May 1990.
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