Vol. 399 No. 8
12 Mr. Belton asked the Minister for Education when her decision regarding senior cycle mathematics will be conveyed to schools; and her views on whether the dissemination of this information is a matter of urgency as choices have to be made by students entering senior cycle in September and timetables and teaching preparation have to be undertaken by principals and staff.
17 Mr. Connor asked the Minister for Education when her decision regarding senior cycle mathematics will be conveyed to schools; and her views on whether the dissemination of this information is a matter of urgency as choices have to be made by students entering senior cycle in September and timetables and teaching preparation have to be undertaken by principals and staff.
21 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Minister for Education when her decision regarding senior cycle mathematics will be conveyed to schools; and her views on whether the dissemination of this information is a matter of urgency as choices have to be made by students entering senior cycle in September and timetables and teaching preparation have to be undertaken by principals and staff.
27 Mr. Boylan asked the Minister for Education when her decision regarding senior cycle mathematics will be conveyed to schools; and her views on whether the dissemination of this information is a matter of urgency as choices have to be made by students entering senior cycle in September and timetables and teaching preparation have to be undertaken by principals and staff.
34 Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Education when her decision regarding senior cycle mathematics will be conveyed to schools; and her views on whether the dissemination of this information is a matter of urgency as choices have to be made by students entering senior cycle in September and timetables and teaching preparation have to be undertaken by principals and staff.
43 Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Education when her decision regarding senior cycle mathematics will be conveyed to schools; and her views on whether the dissemination of this information is a matter of urgency as choices have to be made by students entering senior cycle in September and timetables and teaching preparation have to be undertaken by principals and staff.
49 Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Education when her decision regarding senior cycle mathematics will be conveyed to schools; and her views on whether the dissemination of this information is a matter of urgency as choices have to be made by students entering senior cycle in September and timetables and teaching preparation have to be undertaken by principals and staff.
59 Mrs. Barnes asked the Minister for Education when her decision regarding senior cycle mathematics will be conveyed to schools; and her views on whether the dissemination of this information is a matter of urgency as choices have to be made by students entering senior cycle in September and timetables and teaching preparation have to be undertaken by principals and staff.
75 Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Education when her decision regarding senior cycle mathematics will be conveyed to schools; and her views on whether the dissemination of this information is a matter of urgency as choices have to be made by students entering senior cycle in September and timetables and teaching preparation have to be undertaken by principals and staff.
84 Mr. Bradford asked the Minister for Education when her decision regarding senior cycle mathematics will be conveyed to schools; and her views on whether the dissemination of this information is a matter of urgency as choices have to be made by students entering senior cycle in September and timetables and teaching preparation have to be undertaken by principals and staff.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 12, 17, 21, 27, 34, 43, 49, 59, 75 and 84 together.
This matter has been the subject of discussion and correspondence between my Department and the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment. Firm proposals have emerged from these discussions and I am awaiting the final views of the council on the matter. I am aware of the urgency of the situation and hope very soon to convey my decision in regard to it to the school authorities.
Is the Minister aware of the reports in today's newspapers that she has refused to sanction the three-tier leaving certificate syllabus for mathematics which was recommended by the mathematics course committee of the National Council for Curriculum, and Assessment? Can she confirm that this is not the case and that the reports are inaccurate? Will she further commit herself to accept the recommendations of this body, which is broadly representative of all involved in education and which is founded on the strong view that those who do a C level course in mathematics at junior certificate level should have the opportunity of continuing mathematics at that level for the leaving certificate and not be relegated to a second best senior certificate course which does not have the standing of being part of the leaving certificate? They should not be stigmatised.
As usual the Deputy is engaging in hyperbole. One of the suggestions made to me in a letter dated 10 May last, signed by Albert O'Kelly, chief executive of the NCCA, states that the syllabus should also be offered, examined and certificated as a senior cycle syllabus within the national provision currently available through the senior certificate programme. This programme is currently on offer in schools and is examined and certificated by the Department of Education. That is one of the proposals which has been put to me.
In addition to being part of the leaving certificate.
I was anxious that we should not have four levels of mathematics available, that is higher, ordinary A, ordinary B and a senior certificate. That would be quite comical. I am also anxious that our syllabi should be able to stand up to international scrutiny. I know Deputy Bruton feels strongly about this too and he has often spoken about the need to have our examinations open to international scrutiny. I am also very anxious that the current arrangements for the junior certificate whereby there will be three tiers should be accommodated at senior cycle. We are trying to reach a correct conclusion for the child but we do not want to have four different mathematics examinations. That would not be the correct procedure.
Does the Minister agree that there is considerable urgency in reaching a concrete decision in this matter in that schools must offer their subject choices at this stage for the next academic year? Teachers have to be allocated and students have to know whether they can sit a C level paper in the leaving certificate. Their choice of subject will be dictated in considerable measure by this. The Minister has not the luxury of continuing to express her anxieties and her concerns and her willingness to listen to everybody. Having had the matter considered by a body established for the purpose, it is time, believe it or not, to make a decision.
Deputy Bruton is full of radicalism and it is all blather and blow. One of the recommendations of the NCCA is the one I put back to them. Deputy Bruton has chosen very explicitly to ignore that. They themselves are of the view that there cannot be four examinations.
The solution is very simple.
On one hand the Deputy is screaming about international standards and saying we must be open to scrutiny but in the next breath he does not give a damn. It is really very funny. I know Deputy Bruton is striving to make his mark in other fields but he will not make it on me.
I will call Deputy Cotter and Deputy O'Shea, if both Deputies will be brief. Brevity, please.
Surely the standards should be looked at globally with regard to the mathematics syllabi available. Syllabus C would be in addition to the other syllabi available and therefore the standard of mathematics in the leaving certificate would not refer simply to syllabus C. Many students are finding it quite difficult to handle the conceptual nature of even the pass course. It is highly conceptual and very technical in its nature. A lot of students are finding that the course is not stimulating or interesting. It is part of the murder machine for quite a large number of them.
The Deputy is embarking on a statement.
There is an urgent need for a decision so that people can prepare for September. Schools are breaking for the holidays and discussion cannot take place until close to the new school year. A positive decision should be made immediately.
The point about the view of students in general on the mathematics course is valid and it is being addressed by the NCCA. Many students can find no affinity with the total mathematics course as it is. I will ask my officials to meet the NCCA on this matter. We have reached a measure of agreement on one of their proposals, which I have incorporated.
Would the Minister not agree that there is something radically wrong with a system whereby 10,000 students fail mathematics at leaving certificate level as against 2,000 who fail English at the same level? That must be balanced against 7,000 students in all who take honours mathematics. A figure of 23 per cent failure rate at intermediate certificate mathematics has been given to me — I am not sure if it is correct. Obviously the children who fail at intermediate certificate have little chance of making up the ground and passing at leaving certificate level. Therefore, a mathematics course which would deal with fairly basic maths is necessary. It is also necessary——
I asked for brevity and relevance.
It is vital that the figure of 10,000 students who failed mathematics in their leaving certificate is reduced dramatically in the interests of students who want to gain third level places.
The gaining of third level places is a separate matter. The VEC sector in the main accept senior certificate mathematics while the university sector, for the want of a better name, do not. That question also hangs over the current discussions. I cannot decide what they should or should not accept; it is their decision.
Trinity College have said that they will accept a C level.
With regard to the number of students who failed their mathematics examination the three tiers of the junior mathematics syllabus will address the needs of the child who is unable to cope with the mathematic syllabus as presently constituted. The new syllabus will be geared to those students. I want to have the correct syllabus so that such students can be accommodated at senior cycle level.
