Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 6 Dec 1990

Vol. 403 No. 6

Fisheries (Amendment) Bill, 1990: Second Stage.

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The aim of this Bill is to implement the proposals which I devised earlier this year and which ended the rod licence dispute.

The Bill provides for the establishment of fisheries co-operative societies to raise and disburse for the public benefit, funds for the development of trout and coarse fisheries in the various fisheries regions.

The structure and framework proposed is grounded in the principles of the co-operative movement and of local participation and local democracy. It will allow anglers themselves through a democratic procedure to make the decisions on the best and most effective process for raising money.

I am confident that this framework offers a solid basis for the development of trout and coarse angling.

Most Deputies are aware of the detailed background to this Bill, namely the continuing need to put inland fisheries development on a firm financial footing.

Ireland possesses an inland fisheries resource which is unique in Europe. Geographical considerations have endowed us with extensive natural waterways which are capable of sustaining large populations of fresh-water species and a combination of historical and economic factors has served to ensure that we have been spared the industrial and population pressures which brought about the demise of fisheries in more prosperous neighbouring countries.

The potential for development of this indigenous self-renewing resource has been recognised since historical times in the case of the salmon fisheries which have been protected and developed by private owners over the centuries and by Board of Conservators since the 1800s with financial assistance and back-up from state authorities while salmon fishermen and fishery owners made contributons by way of licence duties and fishery rates.

Trout and coarse fish were, however, for long regarded as the poor relation and were largely left to fend for themselves. There was no State licence duty and generally speaking neither fishery rates nor permit fees were paid. For some time past however there has been a realisation that these fisheries have considerable potential for development both as a pastime for local anglers and as an amenity for tourist anglers from both home and abroad with very positive implications for income and employment generation.

Pressure accordingly began to build up on central Government to establish structures to bring about such development and make Exchequer funding available. The first efforts were made in this direction in 1952 with the setting up of the Inland Fisheries Trust at the instigation of the then Minister for Fisheries. This trust was intended to be a self-financing development body for trout and coarse-fish with a voluntary membership comprising all trout and coarse fish anglers and with the State helping out in the early years with priming finance. However as the years passed the funds contributed in membership fees tailed off and the trust came increasingly to depend on Exchequer funding while at the same time calls were mounting generally for more public funds to be put into development work.

In the reorganisation of fisheries administration which took place in 1980, the trust was abolished and the development of trout and coarse fisheries was entrusted to newly created fisheries boards financed for the most part out of public funds. In an effort to attract increased funding from anglers a voluntary registration system was introduced whereby anglers who paid a registration fee (initially £5 per annum) were entitled to vote in the election of trout and coarse fish representatives on the various boards. This charge was increased to £9.50 in 1985. Nevertheless in 1987 the total contribution came to only £20,000 from a total of almost 80,000 home anglers and 50,000 visitors.

The net position then was that whereas the State was annually spending around £5 million on services benefiting trout and coarse fishing, only a minimal contribution to financing that service was coming from the angling fraternity in whose interests the services were provided in the first place. At the same time the same interests continued to seek more and improved services and yet more Government spending in an environment where drastic measures were having to be taken to curtail Exchequer borrowing and cut back on public expenditure generally.

This then was the background to the introduction of the licensing system for trout and coarse fish angling from the beginning of 1988, to complement the licences which have been required for salmon angling since the middle of the 19th century and which yielded about £170,000 in revenue to the fisheries boards in 1987. It was hoped to raise an extra £500,000 for inland fisheries development from these new arrangements.

The system, however, met strong opposition in some parts of the State and fishing, including tourist angling, was disrupted in some areas. Some communities were bitterly divided on the issue. The system did not succeed in its objectives. I was particularly troubled by the scale of the social division and bitterness which was engendered. Here I want to pay tribute to the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Daly, who strove might and main to resolve this conflict and dissipate the bitterness at that time.

The programme for Government in July 1989 recognised that the difficulties in relation to angling licences were part of a wider issue involving the funding of inland fisheries development as an important national resource. On coming to office at that stage I undertook in accordance with the terms of the programme a series of consultations and discussions with interested parties with a view to resolving the difficulties. As this process advanced I became convinced that a totally new arrangement was required. I felt that a system which would facilitate co-operation between all interested parties for their mutual benefit was the only realistic proposition if fences were to be mended.

Eventually after many meetings with both those who favoured licences and those who did not favour licences I devised a set of proposals which were acceptable to those who had opposed the licensing system. Most Members are no doubt aware that normal fishing activity took place during 1990 and that the disruption which disturbed the 1988 and 1989 seasons in some parts of the State was thankfully absent. This Bill is aimed at implementing my proposals. It provides for licences for trout and coarse fish angling to be replaced and for angling development co-operatives to be established in each of the fisheries regions. These co-operatives are to raise and disburse funds on fisheries development work of public benefit. Anglers and others will be able to contribute to the co-operatives through the purchase of share certificates. Certificates will cost £12 annual, £5 for 21 days and £3 for three days. Holders of annual share certificates are to become ordinary members of co-operatives and are to be eligible, provided they live in Ireland, to vote in ballots and elections.

Angling clubs and other bodies will be enabled to become corporate members of co-operatives. No-one will be entitled to have more than one vote in any ballot or election conducted by a co-operative. The provisions for the integration of angling clubs into the structure and for recognising their role in and contribution to fisheries development is, for me, a most important element of the proposed new structure. A central element of the opposition to the licensing system was that it did not acknowledge the major and valuable efforts of clubs in carrying out work for the public benefit and which is in many respects similar to that carried out by State agencies. Indeed, this was a point also echoed to some extent by the many anglers groups who supported the licensing concept. I am determined that this work must be recognised in a constructive fashion and that the new framework will foster and develop further the contribution made by angling clubs.

I wish to emphasise that the title "fisheries co-operative society" is meant to reflect the spirit under which the co-operatives are to be established rather than any legal definition. Purchase of a share certificate or membership of a co-operative will not confer any proprietorial rights on anyone. I would hope, however, that the establishment of the co-operatives will introduce a spirit of co-operation, a form of comhar na gcomharsan to our rivers and lakelands.

The concept of a compulsory licence to fish for trout and coarse fish caused difficulties for some anglers. On the other hand the previous voluntary registration system was patently unsuccessful. I have, therefore, decided to introduce an arrangement whereby the members of any co-operative in a secret ballot may decide to make possession of a current share certificate a requirement to fish in their area provided 60 per cent of those voting vote in favour of such a requirement.

Each co-operative is to hold the first such ballot at the same time as the first elections of their management committees which are to be held at the same time as the next elections to the regional fisheries boards which are due to be held in December 1991. Subsequent ballots on this issue may be held at times defined in the Bill. A co-operative may at such ballots rescind an earlier decision provided 60 per cent of those voting vote accordingly.

The Bill, in any event, provides for certain categories of people to be exempt from any share certificate requirement viz. persons under 18 and over 66 years of age; those in receipt of unemployment assistance or invalidity pension. I propose to provide matching funds within parameters to be agreed with each co-operative for a limited period to encourage co-operatives to raise as much finance as possible through the sale of share certificates. Grants to societies are to be paid out of the Exchequer allocation.

I propose to appoint trustees to manage the co-operatives pending the first elections of management committees. I also intend to have rules formulated for the regulation of the co-operatives which will ensure proper accountability in respect of all funds and that funds are expended in accordance with recognised fisheries management practice.

In an area where possession of a share certificate is required to fish, this requirement is to be enforced by authorised officers of the relevant regional fisheries board acting at the request and on behalf of the co-operative. The fisheries boards have a statutory obligation to implement the fisheries Acts and their position is being maintained. Penalities for contravention of this law are to be related to annual share certificate changes i.e. not greater than ten times the annual share cost and subject to a maximum of £1,000. These I believe are realistic levels.

Trout and coarse fish angling representatives on the regional fisheries boards are to be elected by the members of the co-operatives. In order to be eligible to vote in these elections members will need to be ordinarily resident in Ireland and to have been co-operative members in each of the three preceding years. I am providing, however, that for the purposes of the next election current membership of the co-operatives will suffice.

I have decided that persons who reside in any part of Ireland should be eligible to vote in co-operative elections and regional fisheries board elections. Inland fisheries is a matter of mutual interest to both jurisdictions and my Department, and the boards, have co-operated most effectively with Northern Ireland fisheries agencies over the years to protect and enhance the resource. Persons residing in any part of the country were traditionally entitled to vote in elections of boards of conservators prior to 1980 and many people from the Six Counties continue to take a keen and constructive interest in fisheries in this jurisdiction. I believe that my decision in this respect is a good practical means of extending the hand of friendship across the Border.

As I mentioned earlier, licences have been required for salmon angling since the middle of the 19th century, and this arrangement is to continue. There is general agreement among interested parties however that the categories of licence should be revised. I propose to reintroduce district licences at a cost of £12 per annum. I have also decided, in consultation with the salmon anglers, to introduce a juvenile salmon angling licence costing £8 per annum and a oneday licence costing £3. These charges are all very reasonable.

Some salmon anglers sought to have the benefit of these new arrangements during the 1990 season. I was unable to accommodate them. I have decided however that those who purchased annual licences for salmon angling in 1990 shall be entitled on application to a district or juvenile licence free of charge in 1991. In effect the purchase of an annual licence for £25 in 1990 is to cover them for two seasons' fishing at district licence level.

Tá súil agam go bhfuil ré nua ag tosnú i gcúrsaí iascaigh intíre. Tá dualgas orainn go léir obair as láimh a chéile ar son leasa na tíre. Ar scáth a chéile a mhairimid. Tugann an Bille seo deis do iascairí na tíre comhoibriú lena chéile agus leis na húdaráis chun feabhas a chur ar chúrsaí.

I set myself two goals when tackling this problem, the raising of revenue and achieving reconciliation among anglers. The settlement formula which I have devised has already enabled significant progress to be made in the restoration of normality in the angling sphere. This Bill I believe lays the foundation to enable these aims to be fully achieved in the medium term.

When the settlement proposals were announced I got the following four lines of poetry from Professor J. A. Richmond of the Department of Greek, University College, Dublin, two splendid hexameter/pentameter couplets.

Excutiens hamos piscator harundine longa

Praetor, laetatur, maxime, lege tua;

Undique caupones tandem gaudere videmus,

At trepidus fugiens "uae mihi" piscis ait.

In prose, my pedestrian loose translation is "The fisherman as he shakes out his hooks on a long rod rejoices very greatly at your law, O Praetor. On all sides, at last, we see the inn-keepers rejoice but the fish, fleeing in fear and trembling, says `woe is me'."

In a burst of generosity I am giving a £20 Christmas book token for the best verse translation — open to all who work in Teach Laighin. I may even get a practising poet to adjudicate.

Molaim an Bille seo go láidir don Dáil ar son síochána, ar son forburtha agus ar son iascaireachta sa tír.

I call on Deputy Taylor-Quinn to indicate whether she presumes to be poet laureate.

No, I do not intend to be poet laureate. The Minister made an offer on which he may have to reflect because there are some very good wits in the House and the verse which might win the prize might not reflect very well on the Government. In relation to this nice little bit of poetry all I can say to the fishermen is: "let the buyer beware". In relation to this Bill let the fishermen beware because, although the Minister made a nice, rational speech, we all know that the Bill leaves much to be desired.

It is rather ironic that just three years ago, prior to Christmas 1987, controversial legislation was introduced in this House and that this Bill is now coming before the House, despite repeated requests from Opposition Deputies on all sides to have it brought before the House earlier. We are attempting to hurry this legislation through the House——

There is no hurry in regard to this Bill.

I spoke to my Whip before I came into the House and it seems there is a request that we take Committee Stage next week. However, Committee Stage should not be taken until all the parties concerned have been consulted and have an input to the Bill before it is finally passed. Unfortunately, three years ago, the legislation was rushed through the House and consultation did not take place. The result was a fiasco and many people have emigrated because they lost their livelihood as a result of that dispute.

The dispute as a result of mismanagement by the 1987 Government was unfortunate, many people went out of business, the banks and lending institutions moved in and the result was that these people had to leave the country. Some who did not leave the country have been on social welfare since and many others barely survive in business. The most serious result was that this occurred in areas where it is extremely difficult to get employment. Industrial employment cannot be attracted to these areas with the result that much hardship was created for young people and others for which the Government must be condemned. This Bill is supposed to address these problems but it does not.

The Bill before us today is much worse than the one introduced in 1987. It is more dictatorial and introduces greater State control than the previous Bill. No matter what way the Minister for the Marine — or any other Minister — attempts to camouflage the Bill it cannot be done. There is an attempt to set up co-operatives but the Minister is introducing provision for major control of them. They will be ministerial controlled co-operatives; he will implement regulations regarding the functions, membership, quorums at meetings and all the other details in relation to co-operatives. As long as I can remember, co-operatives meant one thing — co-operation. They were founded to foster co-operation among rural communities and to enhance the economic development of rural communities. If Sir Horace Plunkett could see this legislation he would regard it as a pale imitation of his aspiration in regard to co-operatives. It is an attempt to couch ministerial diktat under the name of co-operative but it certainly is not a co-operative.

For the past three years various Ministers have pretended to attempt to settle this matter but the end result is non-resolution of the problem. A Bill has come before this House which is very dangerous and which could create a much more serious problem long term. The performance of some Ministers in the past in relation to this matter left an awful lot to be desired. It is unfortunate, after all the shenanigans, that they have not managed, between them, to come up with something positive.

When the angling community in every nook and cranny of the country recognise this Bill for what it is, they will realise that they have been badly let down, particularly by the Minister for Energy, Deputy Molloy, who is in the House, and who has attempted to be all things to all anglers over the past number of years. The provisions of this Bill are very serious for anglers and the future of angling. It is also detrimental to the future of inland fisheries.

One of the major fears anglers expressed when the 1987 legislation was introduced was the principle of licensing and what it could confer in future years on the Minister in relation to the disposal of assets, inland lakes and rivers. They felt that this was a mechanism through which the control could be sold by the Minister to private interests.

The Minister is now forming societies or groups and attempting to call them co-operatives. However, these groups are only co-operatives in name and the principle of co-operative is not determined in this Bill. The concept of co-operatives, which existed in the past, is not reflected in this Bill. Co-operatives, in particular dairy co-operatives, with which we are familiar round the country, manage their own affairs, have their own meetings and control what they do. They are the sole arbiters of their future and destiny. Under this Bill the Minister is the arbiter of their future destiny. Under this Bill, the Minister will decide and dictate, he will make the orders and he has to have a full account, in detail, of everything that goes on. That is totally unacceptable.

It is unfortunate that the Ministers concerned have not seen exactly what is going on. More seriously, in the long term, these co-operatives could be subject to takeover and this could realise the worst fears that the anglers expressed in 1987 and 1988. We know what happened in co-operatives in recent times in relation to takeover bids. The same thing could happen with fishing co-operatives. Perhaps 20 years down the road a private enterprise could make a bid for an angling co-operative. That is a dangerous possibility which defeats the purpose of the anglers as expressed in 1987.

Rubbish.

I would expect you to say that because I understand that the Minister has constituents in Galway West whom he must convince that this is the Gospel according to Bobby Molloy. I recognise full well that the Minister will have to tell them that this is the Molloy delivery——

Deputy, Deputy——

This is Minister Molloy's delivery——

If the Deputy so charmingly acknowledges interruptions she is making the duties of the Chair more difficult.

She is not very charming.

I will deal with interruptions.

But I love dealing with them myself, occasionally.

But you cannot always respond to what you love in this Chamber.

(Interruptions.)

Deputy Taylor-Quinn, without any love or interruptions.

Unfortunately, constituents of the Minister, Deputy Molloy, will be very disappointed when they closely analyse this Bill for what it is. It realises all of their worst fears. A fear in relation to the licence was that one could be apprehended while out fishing or en route to the lakes and rivers and asked to produce a licence. They felt that this was an intrusion into their privacy and into the peaceful pastime of fishing. There is nothing in the Bill to suggest that they will not be asked to produce a share certificate, a birth certificate or an entitlement to invalidity pension or social welfare to prove that they do not have to contribute for a share certificate. All the things that were feared in the past are being accommodated in this Bill. The Bill is seriously flawed.

This Bill will do little for the future development of inland fisheries. Where will the finance come from to fund the fishery boards? The Minister said that those who had salmon licences last year will automatically get a share certificate in 1991. How does the Minister propose balancing the amount by which the fishery boards will be short this year because of that? What will be the function of the fishery boards in relation to this matter?

Section 3 says that a licence under the Principal Act shall not be required for angling for trout or coarse fish. It is interesting that the Bill does not specifically state that this section repeals the section of the 1987 Act which introduced the rod licence for trout and coarse angling.

Section 4 deals with fisheries co-operative societies. Everything is being done by ministerial order which can, at any time, be amended or revoked by the Minister. The co-operatives will be put together by the Minister and direction shall be given by the Minister. In fact, everything shall be controlled by the Minister. The trustees shall be appointed by the Minister. The Minister may make rules and regulations under section 5 and the rules shall deal specifically with the functions of the first trustees, the membership and functions of the management committee and so on. In other words, this group of people will not be in a position to make their own decisions and impose their own rules and regulations. It will all be done by the Minister. That is absolute State control. The Minister can even decide by regulation on a quorum for the meetings. As well as making regulations in relation to the membership he can make regulations in relation to the termination of ordinary membership.

Where is the basis for co-operation which the Minister talked about in his speech? I can see a situation where the people will be so tied up in rules and regulations emanating from the Minister that their reaction will be appalling. One does not get co-operation by dictating but by working with the people to frame suitable rules and regulations. Direction from a bureaucracy centred in Leeson Lane, Dublin, will not draw the best from the people in the West Galway area, Mayo, Sligo, Leitrim, Clare or anywhere else. The people who will be affected are traditional anglers who know their neighbourhoods, lakes and rivers, and know what is required. In the past they have made major contributions on a voluntary basis to develop their lakes and rivers. Now the Minister will dictate how they should conduct their affairs. That is against the principle of co-operation. The Minister shall even make regulations in relation to the accounts and auditing of the accounts of the society and in relation to the granting of share certificates by the society. The Minister may appoint two persons to the management committee. The Minister then talks about liability and so on. The trustees shall be appointed by the Minister and they shall be there until the management committee is first selected. The Minister has control over the management committee to a certain degree and is entitled to nominate members.

There will be a combination of fishery board officials, Department of the Marine officials and somebody from the local club on the management committee. I envisage that that will happen as a result of this Bill.

Ordinary membership of the co-operative society is dealt with in section 7. Ordinary members shall be the trustees appointed by the Minister and those holding a share certificate for the year 1991. Under the provisions of this section the Minister has total control; the Minister will make the decisions and issue the directives. I ask the Minister to take the control mechanism out of this Bill. This is unacceptable. Co-operatives are not controlled by the Minister. Co-operatives get on with the job and are not dictated to by any Department, be it the Department of Fisheries and Forestry or the Department of Agriculture and Food. This unprecedented legislation before the House will have long term ramifications and long term effects not only on fishery co-operatives, as suggested in this Bill, but on the entire co-operative movement. That is a dangerous precedent and one about which this House must be extremely cautious. The Minister must recognise this and agree to accept amendments, or introduce his own amendments, which will change the fundamental structure of what is proposed in the Bill.

Any angling club may become a corporate member in accordance with the rules of the society. The corporate members of that club will pay X number of pounds for corporate membership and the ordinary members will become ordinary sharholders and will hold an ordinary share certificate. Who will decide the number of people who will be accepted for corporate membership? Will it be 60, 100 or 120? In section 8 we discover that the management committee will decide how many members would be accepted for corporate membership. In other words, if there are 150 or 200 members in the Corrib Angling Club or the Cong Angling Club and if the management of a certain co-operative society decide that under the corporate membership claim they would accept only 50, what redress have the other members of that angling club in those circumstances? I do not see any opportunity to redress that situation. They will not be able to say that every one of the members will automatically become members. The managment committee will decide how many members would be accepted under corporate membership. This is unacceptable.

In section 8 (2) it is stated that any other corporate member shall be entitled to nominate, without fee, one ordinary member of the society. What is the significance or the relevance of that statement? What exactly is meant by it? An angling club can nominate one person to be an ordinary member of the society. What does that mean? Where is the need for it? What can be done about it? It is rather strange and I find it extremely difficult to understand. I do not understand the reason for it, the significance or the importance of it. Perhaps the Minister would respond. I put a question mark over the entire subsection (3) which states:

in considering whether to grant recognition to an angling club or other body for the purpose of subsection (1) of this section or fixing the amount of a fee to be paid by a corporate member under that subsection particular regard shall be had to the outlay of the body concerned on work of public benefit in the area in which the society operates.

Who shall have the particular regard for the outlay of the body concerned on the work of public benefit? Who shall decide the value of the work of public benefit? Who shall put a monetary value on that work? To what scrutiny shall it be subject? Is there a danger that the real value of the work being done by the anglers on a voluntary basis will not be fully recognised? I should like to know who are the people who will be paying particular regard to that work. Is there a danger they will not recognise the full value of that work?

Section 9 states who is entitled to fish. There are four categories — people who hold a current share certificate, people under the age of 18 years or over 66 years of age, people in receipt of unemployment assistance or social welfare and those on invalidity pension. These are people who would normally be entitled to fish for trout and course fish. While fishing on the lakes and in the rivers, will these people have to produce their share certificate if apprehended by a fishery board officer? Will they be asked for their birth certificate, their share certificate or proof that they are recipients of invalidity pension or of social welfare benefit? Is that not something which could happen under the provisions of this section? This section is unacceptable and has all the inherent dangers about which anglers were originally concerned. Now, three years after the first Bill was introduced we have rewritten in a more positive fashion those dangers in another Bill. It is unfortunate that this has happened.

In section 10 we find that an annual share certificate will cost £12, a 21 day certificate will cost £5 and a three day certificate will cost £3. The real crunch comes in section 10 (2) which states:

The Minister may from time to time by order ... alter any fee ... either without limitation as to time or in respect of a specified year or years, and any such order shall take effect at the beginning of the year following that in which it is made.

The share certificate fees of £12, £5 and £3 are good on paper in December 1990 but in December, 1991 is there not a possibility that the fees could be £25, £10 and £6? Under this section, the Minister has given himself the power "without limitation as to time" to increase the fee as he sees fit. That is a very wide ranging power. Indeed, the question I had in mind relating to fines was answered when I saw reference to a £1,000 fine or not less than ten times the annual fee. We could be talking about a fee ranging from £120 to £1,000. The figure of £1,000 was included to accommodate the Minister in the event of an increase in the fee as time goes on. It is totally unacceptable that a Minister at any time can increase the fee as he wishes.

If the Minister dictates what the price of the share certificate shall be the basic principle of co-operative legislation will be defeated. This can have long term repercussions for the fishing industry, inland fisheries and the fisheries co-operatives as proposed in the Bill, and for all co-operative societies, I am telling the ICAOS to seriously consider this legislation because it could have fundamental repercussions for all co-operatives in the long term.

Debate adjourned.
Barr
Roinn