Vol. 403 No. 9
8 Mr. G. O'Sullivan asked the Minister for the Marine if, in view of the recent tragedy concerning a British fishing trawler, he will outline the action he proposes to take to protect the lives of Irish fishermen from the menace of foreign submarines in the Irish Sea; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
10 Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for the Marine if he has had or intends to have any discussions with his counterpart in the British Government regarding improved safety procedures for trawlers, in the light of the recent sinking of a Scottish trawler by a nuclear submarine with the loss of four lives; if any advice has been issued to trawler operators regarding improved safety procedures; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
(Limerick West): I propose to take Questions Nos. 8 and 10 together.
Arising from his dual responsibilities for the safety of life at sea and for the development of the fishing industry, the Minister for the Marine, Deputy Wilson, recently publicly expressed his concern at the incident referred to by the Deputies. He is taking a keen interest in the outcome of inquiries established to investigate the incident with a view to taking every possible positive action to protect the lives of Irish fishermen.
The Government are very seriously concerned about the dangers that submarines pose to shipping and about the nuclear hazard in the event of an accident involving nuclear powered or armed submarines. We avail of every opportunity in international fora, such as the United Nations and the International Maritime Organisation, to focus attention on the general problems. In addition, the Department of Foreign Affairs have raised specific incidents with the authorities of the countries concerned and will continue to do so as the need arises.
The Department of Foreign Affairs have been seeking information from the British authorities in relation to the specific incident to which the Deputies refer. The question of further approaches to the British authorities will be considered in the light of this information.
Would the Minister not agree that there is widespread concern among the fishing community who fish in the Irish Sea that until such time as submarines are obliged to travel on the surface through the fishing grounds, this danger will continue to exist? Would the Minister agree that he should forcefully put the Irish position to his counterparts in the United Kingdom and the United States and demand immediate action?
(Limerick West): I want to assure the Deputy that this is being done. Ireland's national control over foreign vessels ends at the limit of our territorial waters. Inside that limit vessels must travel on the surface, as the Deputy has indicated, and show identification. Beyond that limit vessels operate in international waters over which we have no jurisiction. Vessels travel freely through international waters. I want to assure the Deputy that we are as concerned as he is about the safety and lives of our fishermen.
Would the Minister agree that there is now a necessity to take this issue beyond the level of generality which is contained in the Minister's two replies to this matter to date? Would he agree that there is already considerable information available that over a period there has been a series of incidents involving submarines, most of them from the United Kingdom; that an RTE programme documented the extent of submarine activity in the Irish Sea; that this activity has already claimed the lives of a number of fishermen; that there is now a necessity for the Government to raise with the UK authorities this specific matter of submarine activity in the Irish Sea and to seek an international treaty which would ban submarines travelling underwater in the Irish Sea? Would he agree that there is a necessity for that kind of specific action?
I think the Deputy has made his point.
(Limerick West): I want to assure the Deputy that in the aftermath of the most recent tragedy I have asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs to continue to avail of every opportunity to raise in the appropriate international fora the dangers which submarines pose to fishing vessels. I have also asked him to voice with the relevant bilateral contacts the concerns of our fishermen about submarine activity in the fishing grounds and other waters around our coasts. As the Deputy knows, the Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs have raised this issue in the past at the United Nations.
The Minister for Foreign Affairs has been asked on a number of occasions to raise these incidents involving submarines with the authorities in the countries involved and he will continue to do that. In short, my Department will continue to do everything possible to enhance the safety of vessels at sea whether in territorial or international waters. The point that has been raised by the Deputy will also be taken on board.
Would the Minister not consider that a complete ban on underwater submarine activity in the Irish Sea is now necessary? Would he put that case to his counterparts in Britain and particularly in the United States whose people also use the Irish Sea?
(Limerick West): I am not sure if this would be feasible but I understand that my counterpart in the UK Government issued a statement recently in which he said that the movement of submarines would have to be notified to the fishermen's representatives as from the middle of December. I do not think it would be possible to do as the Deputy suggests.
Has the Minister given consideration to what might happen if one of the submarines was involved in an accident with one of the passenger vessels using the Irish Sea?
(Limerick West): Those matters are being discussed with the British and other authorities, and consideration is being given to them. I am not at liberty at present to divulge what the situation would be but I assure the Deputy and the House that every precaution is being taken to ensure that that would not happen.
