Supplementary Estimates 1990. - Vote 25: Environment. – Dáil Éireann (26th Dáil) – Tuesday, 18 Dec 1990

Supplementary Estimates 1990. - Vote 25: Environment.

Minister for the Environment (Mr. Flynn)

I move:

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £5,500,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1990, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for the Environment, including grants to Local Authorities, grants and other expenses in connection with housing, and miscellaneous schemes, subsidies and grants including certain grants-in-aid.

The Supplementary Estimate is required to meet increased expenditure on two subheads of my Department's Vote. The two subheads are D.2 and M which cover expenditure on private housing grants and recoupment of expenditure incurred by local authorities on the operation of local motor taxation offices, respectively. The gross extra expenditure of £12.325 million is reduced by £6.825 million savings on other subheads giving a net additional requirement of £5.5 million. The savings arise on the mortgage subsidy scheme, on the grant to the Housing Finance Agency, on recoupment of certain malicious injury costs to local authorities and on the payment of the subsidy in respect of loan charges relating to capital loans raised by local authorities.

An additional £11.59 million is required to meet liabilities for the payment of grants under the house improvement grants schemes which were terminated with effect from 27 March 1987. Grant approvals under the 1985 house improvement grants scheme amounted to over £260 million. By the end of this year, my Department will have paid out about £200 million in house improvement grants since 1985. Applicants who had work approved for grant purposes prior to 27 March 1987 were given over three years to complete the work. Final termination of the 1985 scheme took place on 31 May this year, by which date all grant-aided work had to be completed and written claims for payment submitted to my Department. The rush of applications for grant payments to beat the deadline, and my personal commitment to ensure that these grants were paid as speedily as possible, has made it necessary to increase the overall 1990 provision for home improvement grants from £13 million to just under £24.6 million. These grants are paid from subhead D.2 of the Vote and the availability of savings on other housing grants, notably new house grants, has reduced the net additional requirement on the subhead to just over £10.3 million.

As we are now in the final phase of the 1985 house improvement grants scheme I think it is appropriate to give an overview of the scheme. The 1985 house improvement grants scheme was introduced in November, 1985 and provided generous grants for repairs, extensions, provision of chimneys, water, sewerage and bathroom facilities. However, even though the objectives of the scheme may have seemed to be desirable and valid at the time, one must express serious reservations about a scheme which provided such large handouts of taxpayers money for, often, non-essential work and to people who did not really need the grants. What was required was an improvement grants scheme which was better targeted towards need and which would not cause a huge drain on the Exchequer.

Indeed, in terminating the 1985 house improvement grants scheme the Government recognised the worth of a number of well-targeted and cost-effective schemes and decided specifically to retain the disabled persons grant scheme, the essential repairs grant scheme and the special task force for the elderly.

Unfortunately the vast sums of money which were pre-empted by the 1985 house improvement grants scheme severely restricted the resources which could be devoted to other necessary purposes across the entire housing area. Despite this, however, I am pleased that I was able to introduce earlier this year a modest, well-targeted, house improvement grants scheme, namely, the scheme for the renewal or repair of thatched roofs.

When the decision to terminate the main house improvement grant schemes was made in March 1987, every possible effort was made to ensure that nobody suffered hardship as a result of the decison. Each applicant who had an inspection before the termination date and had been found eligible under the scheme was issued with grant approval. In the end, approved applicants had over three years after the termination of the scheme to complete the work and qualify for grants.

Over 5,000 claims were received in my Department in the seven-month period before the final closing date. The additional funds for house improvement grants provided in this Supplementary Estimate will allow over 3,000 applicants to be paid in 1990 who would otherwise have to wait until 1991 for payment. Expenditure on the scheme in 1991 is expected to be minimal as only a small number of outstanding cases remain to be dealt with.

£2 million of the Supplementary Estimate is required for local authority expenditure on running motor tax offices. Subhead M of my Department's 1990 Vote includes £8.53 million in respect of the recoupment to local authorities of the full cost of operating motor tax offices in their capacity as agents of the State in registering and taxing vehicles. The additonal funds will enable all liabilities which mature for payment of this service in 1990 to be discharged in full. The increased provision of £10.53 million for the administration costs of motor tax collection represents 7 per cent of estimated total motor tax revenue of £151 million this year. I expect this percentage to fall over the next few years.

The bulk of the additional expenditure arises on wages and salaries, including overtime. Staffing levels in motor tax offices had to be increased this year to cope with the increased volume of work, due largely to the introduction of the European Communities model driving licence in November, 1989. The new driving licence incorporates a number of security features which substantially increased the processing time for each licence. The workload will be reduced in 1991 when, because of the number of longer-term licences which have been issued, the volume of driver licensing applications will fall.

The increased expenditure also reflects continuing progress on the reconstruction and improvement of motor tax offices and on increasing investment in information technology to improve the quality of service provided to motorists.

Subhead M also covers expenditure on the maintenance of the computerised national vehicle file. Significant progress has been made by my Department in reducing the delays in updating the computerised file. These delays were causing difficulties in relation to the enforcement of traffic law in cases where persons had sold their vehicles. About 300,000 transactions were awaiting input to the national vehicle file at June 1990. This has now been reduced to less than 30,000 and I expect that the backlog will be completely eliminated shortly. The improved situation will assist in the enforcement of traffic law and the early production of statistics. It will also enable the reintroduction of the final notice system for motorists who fail to renew their motor tax and thereby help to generate additional motor tax revenue.

I announced on 26 October that I proposed to make regulations requiring all registration plates on vehicles registered on or after 1 January 1991 to incorporate the full Irish language name of the county or city of registration; the flag of the European Communities and the nationality symbol, IRL.

The regulations have now been made. Owners of vehicles registered since 1 January 1987 have the option of using registration plates in the new format. Vehicles registered on or after 1 January 1991, however, are required to carry the new registration plate.

I look forward to hearing the views of Deputies on the Supplementary Estimate. I will take note of any points raised and, in so far as it is possible, reply to them at the end of the debate.

Mr. Shatter

With the agreement of the House I would like to share some of my time with Deputy Doyle.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Five minutes each?

Mr. Shatter

It may be slightly less than that.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Shatter

The Minister's introductory remarks were more remarkable for what they did not contain than for what they did. While the Minister talked about and praised himself for what he describes as a modest, well-targeted house improvements grants scheme — mainly for the renewal or repair of thatched roofs — he did not seem to realise during the year there was need to provide additional funds to tackle the major housing crisis confronting every local authority. Whereas we have a Minister for thatched roofs we do not have a Minister for housing. It seems to me that, during the course of this year — as we ambled through it with the Minister making complacent statements with regard to housing — the housing lists continued to grow enormously throughout the length and breadth of the country. I estimate there are in the region of 25,000 people currently on local authority housing waiting lists. It is my belief that a good portion of moneys that the Minister published in the Environment Estimate for 1990 as being available for the building of houses by local authorities in that year was not utilised.

It will be very interesting to see the reply I receive to parliamentary questions I have tabled to the Minister today in relation to statistics of the number of houses built so far this year and the amount of money spent by local authorities on house building. Our housing programme is a shambles. It is about time the Minister took his mind off thatched roofs and devoted it to the more substantial problem of providing houses for the homeless, for young couples currently paying exorbitant rents in poor, private sector dwellings that place some people's lives at risk. There is a major problem obtaining with regard to the standard of some of the private dwellings available for rental.

I would have been more impressed with this Estimate had the Minister come to the House and said: yes, the money we allocated for housing last year has been spent; we have built all of the new houses we promised would be built — which I do not believe to be the case — and, due to the recognition of the need in this area, we are providing additional funds and want the sanction of the House in so doing. That does not exist. There is no acknowledgement by the Minister in his introductory remarks of the problems of the homeless, of the housing crisis talked about by every local authority member in every political party throughout the country. The Minister's own councillors on local authorities are condemning him for not tackling the problem. Yet the Minister himself does not seem to acknowledge that the problem exists. Every voluntary body involved in the housing area has produced a plethora of reports during 1990 setting out the needs. The Simon Community set out very recently again the needs with regard to the homeless for whom they specifically cater. We are not meeting that need. The crisis obtaining has still not been properly acknowledged in this House.

The Estimate is remarkable in not mentioning a particular item. In the 1990 Estimate there was a sum of £500,000 allocated for the establishment and initial running costs of the Environment Protection Agency. It came as no surprise to me to discover that money was not spent during 1990. Had the Environment Agency Bill that Fine Gael had before this House this time last year received the support of Government, that agency would by now be up and running, undertaking the essential environmental work necessary, providing a greater degree of confidence in the area of environmental protection than is felt by the general public at present. The agency is not up and running. The Government having defeated the Fine Gael Bill in February 1990, the relevant Bill for the agency was published only last week. I predict that Bill has little chance of becoming law until at least the autumn of next year. In addition, I believe the £1 million allocated to the agency in the 1991 budget will not be taken up. Indeed, because the Bill provides that the agency will not be formed or the provisions of the Bill become operative without Ministerial order, it is my belief there is no chance of seeing that agency up and running until at least 1992. That creates a major problem in the area of environmental protection.

It is also a disappointment that neither the Minister nor his junior Minister, Deputy Harney, has acknowledged the need for an Oireachtas environment committee, something that Fine Gael and all the other Opposition parties supported this time last year in the context of the Fine Gael Bill. There will be an essential political focal point and contact missing between the Environment Protection Agency the Government envisage establishing and this House. There will be a lack of the connection necessary to ensure proposals for law reform, recommended by the Environment Protection Agency, are implemented, to ensure that essential administrative changes recommended by the Environment Protection Agency are taken on board. There will also be a lack of supervision of the approach of Government Departments to essential matters in the environment area.

In the course of his introductory remarks the Minister referred to the new European driving licence and the motor tax position. He did not refer to the appalling failure of this Government to ensure that there are adequate funds available to employ driving testers to allow people obtain their full driving licences. There are people throughout the country, some waiting between 12 to 16 months, to undertake driving tests. It is almost impossible to undertake a driving test in Dublin under six months from date of application. If one manages to do so within six months, one is extremely lucky. The Minister needs to tackle that problem. The Minister has made speeches about it, and for the past 12 months I have been reading press releases about the new initiatives the Minister is taking to tackle that problem. They are not yet working. We do not know why they are not working beyond the fact that they appear to be the stuff of rhetoric as opposed to the stuff of action. I am asking the Minister to tackle that problem.

Mr. Doyle

I asked a question of the Minister recently with regard to section 10 of the 1988 Housing Act, asking him the amount of money allocated to local authorities to deal with the homeless which remained unspent. The Minister told me that, out of £600,000 allocated, only £75,000 had been spent. I also asked the Minister to arrange that this money be transferred and dealt with under section 5 of the Housing Act by way of a management grants scheme. What is needed is a decision on the part of the Minister that voluntary organisations such as the Simon Community and others who are providing special housing needs cannot be expected to fund management and staff costs in settling the homeless and handicapped persons from charity funding. Most of the unspent funds have been transferred by ministerial decision to allow for the recoupment of such grants paid by local authorities under section 5 of the Housing Act. The relevant section allows for the payment of management and capital assistance towards the cost of providing dwellings currently limited to £20,000 per dwelling.

It has been difficult to persuade the Minister to actually tackle these issues. Always they appear to be under review. It is too late in the current year but I would ask the Minister to make the necessary arrangements in the ensuing year. It should be possible, with consultation, to arrive at controlled and effective use of the limited resources available to meet housing management costs and a number of other strategically planned social needs, especially with regard to sheltered housing. At present Dublin Corporation are unable to pay such grants to approved bodies, such as the Simon Community for the Usher's Island projects and the Focus Housing Association, the new sheltered housing project at Stanhope Street. That is because the Department of the Environment will not recoup the requisite grant amounts under section 5. In other words, it is still expected that the management costs of such services for the most disadvantaged homeless be met from charity funding. I am asking the Minister today to put an end to that practice, to allow moneys remaining unspent under section 10 of the Housing Act to be transferred by way of management schemes, allowing voluntary bodies to manage their organisations under the provisions of section 10 of the Housing Act.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I do not want to have to interrupt Deputy Howlin, or indeed any other Deputy, so at this stage I take the half minute to remind the House that Standing Orders require that we apply ourselves to what is in the Estimate as far as possible. The Deputy may use his ingenuity to skirt that but he should not advertise the fact that he is out of order.

Mr. Howlin

I am sure that warning was not directed personally to me at all. I have ten minutes to address the Supplementary Estimate on the Environment, an Estimate of some £5.5 million. These moneys are to be spent in two ways, partly in the housing area and partly on motor taxation. I want to be entirely in order by focusing, in the few minutes available to me, exclusively on the housing area. There is no other area of responsibility of this Department more acute, more in need of funding, more the focus of a clamour around the country that seems to have escaped the attention and ears of the Minister in this House.

I come from a county which on a monthly basis at least debates the crisis of housing. If those of us who are members of local authorities consider what is our prime responsibility — and I put it to the Minister it would be his prime responsibility — to boil it down to one single issue, it would be to provide shelter for those with none. If the Minister was to have a real title it would be Minister for shelter, and that is a title the Minister has, unfortunately, failed to live up to and earn. In the past number of years since this Minister took office we have seen a virtual abandoning of the public housing programme with 90 per cent of it slashed and in urban centres and counties up and down the country virtually no new houses are being built. Parallel to that, we have seen the introduction of a scheme that on the face of it was very welcome, to sell off the existing council stock.

In good times that is an excellent proposition, to allow people who have lived and paid rent in a local authority house for a number of years to have an opportunity to own their own house. That is fundamental in the Irish psyche, the Irish character, and probably it goes back to the lack of security of tenure that we want to own our own houses. However, the dreadful consequences of both these events happening in parallel is that we have a diminishing housing stock available for letting to suitable tenants. Furthermore, the quality of the stock that has remained in the ownership of local authorities has diminished substantially. Therefore, we have virtually no new houses being built and the quality and fabric of those houses we own has disintegrated.

The issue of homelessness has been touched upon. We have seen homelessness now becoming a feature of Irish life. Few of us would have imagined a few short years ago that that would be a fact. The national campaign for the homeless now estimate that 5,000 people are without shelter. That is scandalous. We are fast approaching the UK situation where you do not provide social housing and you are met with a crisis that you must address, and very shortly we will have to address it in the way that even the Thatcherite Government across the way had to face it and provide totally unsuitable accommodation such as bed and breakfast or rented private accommodation for those families and elderly who have no other option.

I want to be specific with the Minister. In my county, Wexford, this year 17 houses will be built. That is for the county council area of Wexford. It is the smallest number of houses built in County Wexford for 20 years. At the same time, the assessment of the housing needs was carried out. The latest number for the last assessment in 1989 was 543 people on a waiting list. Since that survey was completed in 1989 a further 214 applications have come in. County Wexford has a grand total of 662 families and individuals in need of housing, who are approved for housing but who have no prospect of same, and that does not include the urban areas. It does not include the corporation area of Wexford. It does not include New Ross and Enniscorthy District Council areas. I know when dealing with general figures we sometimes bamboozle ourselves in this House. A sum of £5.5 million in a Supplementary Estimate sounds like a great deal of money and in individual terms it is, and we can talk about millions flowing here and there, but behind those figures of 662 people for the county of Wexford lie a number of individual tragedies. I do not have to rack my brain long and hard to find the individual cases to put before the Minister. I will give three brief cases.

I had a phone call this week from neighbours of a man living rough in rural New Ross, living in the ditches, eating cold meats he can buy. He has no shelter whatsoever. I have been prevailing on the local authority to provide him with a mobile home and they are endeavouring to find a site for that now, but there is no prospect of a house. They simply do not have one that is empty. In Wexford town we are still working off our 1987 priority list that has not been exhausted yet. We have done no priority listing since 1987. Therefore, if you are one of the hundreds of people who have sought accommodation since 1987 it is tough luck.

There are three different categories in the housing sphere. There are families desperate to start off life with a roof over their head. There are the elderly, in many ways the saddest. People come to my office — as I am sure they come to every Deputy's office — reading the obituary list to see who is dead and if they have notched up a place on the priority list for non-family old folk accommodation. A third category, mentioned by Shelter and the campaign for the homeless is anybody under 60, single younger people who are homeless. In Wexford — I suppose it is the same elsewhere — they go on a third category list known locally as the limbo list or the no hope list because they will never be a priority. If the Minister were to address himself to that he would really be addressing the issue for which he has fundamental responsibility.

The Minister in his speech made a comment in relation to the thatching grant. A pilot scheme has been initiated by Wexford County Council in an attempt to preserve our heritage in housing, and for small money it has proved a great success. It is important that we maintain some of the architectural heritage of our country, and I applaud the Minister for taking that on board. I think the derision it has caused on this side of the House is not a comment on the merits of the scheme itself but on the fact that it would be seen to be the thrust of what the Minister wants to do in relation to housing instead of addressing the core problem I have tried to highlight in the last minute or two.

In no way am I suggesting that the problems we experience in the constituency I represent are in any way unique. They are not. Up and down the country the same problems and situation can be found readily. My local paper highlighted the case of a woman who is in a grotty, miserable flat without electricity or source of heat or light. We still have not been able to give her priority in regard to accommodation. Yesterday a man came to my office seeking accommodation. He is going from relative to relative and because he has no fixed abode we cannot even assess him to determine exactly where he is so that we can make an assessment of his housing needs. People are in despair; those of us who are members of local authorities are also in despair because we have nothing but the hard and sad word to give to people seeking accommodation.

With his attack on the funding of local authorities in the last number of years the Minister has reduced local authorities themselves from being agents of development, catalysts in the community for good, to rubber stamps for decisions made centrally, a position I regard as fundamentally anti-democratic and against the tide of current history.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Gilmore. The Chair will continue to advise the House of the proper thing and the proper thing is to confine oneself to what is in the Supplementary Estimate. On the general Estimates you can roam over the whole field of environment but not on the Supplementary Estimate. Deputy Gilmore has ten minutes.

Mr. Gilmore

Since the bulk of the Supplementary Estimate deals with housing, I intend to confine myself to the housing element. Since I came into this House 18 months ago, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I have repeatedly raised the matter of the housing crisis. My very first speech in this House concerned that problem. This is a crisis which has a number of dimensions. There are 20,000 families on local authority waiting lists and thousands more who cannot get on the waiting lists because their income is deemed to be too high, being more than £10,000 per annum. There are young families who cannot afford to buy a home of their own because of the increased cost of housing.

There is massive exploitation in the private sector where people are paying very high rents for very poor accommodation. There is the failure of the 1988 Housing Act to deal effectively with the problem of homelessness which has been documented by organisations like the Simon Community and, more recently, today's report by Threshold. In addition there is the poor condition of the existing housing stock as shown up in the recent survey of housing conditions carried out by the Minister's Department. It shows that in local authority after local authority there are houses in the private and public sector which are not fit for human habitation.

They are the problems but, unfortunately, we are not getting any answers from the Minister or the Government. Last year we were told that 1,200 houses would be built by local authorities. I know, for example, that in the local authorities on which I serve none of those houses has yet been built. We are still waiting for sanction to build two small schemes in the Dún Laoghaire Corporation district. It is held up in the Department.

The Estimates for 1991 just published do not offer any relief either, only a marginal increase in the allocation for local authority house building. That allocation is now only one-fifth of what it was in the early eighties and house building is only one-sixth of what it was in the early eighties when more than 7,000 houses were being built per annum by local authorities.

It seems that the biggest problem we have in regard to housing is the Minister. We have a Minister who will not acknowledge that there is a housing crisis. Repeatedly he has stated in public his belief that there is not a housing crisis. Repeatedly he has defended, both in the House and outside, the abysmally inadequate allocation for house building and house purchase to local authorities. He has simply closed his eyes to the plight of the homeless in our community and to the plight of the families waiting for housing. At the rate he is providing money it will take the best part of 20 years to clear the existing housing lists. Every Member knows the extent of the problem. Every Member has come across young families living in overcrowded conditions, suffering extreme marital strain and living in unsanitary conditions. That is causing a lot of hardship to young families. However, the Minister for the Environment whom we turn to, and whom we expect to argue the case for these families, has not done so.

Three weeks ago I raised this issue during an Adjournment debate. I said then that if we did not see a significant increase in the allocation for housing in the 1991 Estimates the Minister should consider his position. If he is not prepared to acknowledge the extent of the housing crisis he should do the honourable thing and pass on the Department of the Environment, or certainly the housing section of it, to somebody who is prepared to treat it with a greater degree of urgency. The Minister has ignored the problem. He has ignored the plight of the homeless. The housing crisis we are facing has the greatest potential for social upheaval that we have seen for a very long time.

How much longer does the Minister expect the many young families on housing waiting lists, and who are living in appalling conditions, will continue to tolerate those conditions and not express their views in some way or another? I say that advisedly. We have seen no relief for the homeless or an easing of the housing crisis in either the Supplementary Estimate that has been presented or in the 1991 Book of Estimates circulated last week.

The time has come for the Government to appoint a different Minister with responsibility for housing who will take this problem a bit more seriously. The Minister for the Environment is presiding over the worst housing problem this State has faced in at least three decades. He does not acknowledge that there is a problem. The very least I would have expected from the Minister today, or at some time in the past, was a glimmer of an acknowledgment that there was a problem to be addressed. If he gave such an acknowledgment he would have the support of those of us on this side of the House who have been trying to persuade him to deal with the problem urgently.

Each local authority has schemes before the Minister awaiting approval. They want to get on with new housing schemes and with providing houses for the people who are on their lists. Local authorities are frustrated because the resources, and the back-up, have not been provided. Even the limited amount of house building which was provided for under last year's Estimates is being frustrated by the bureaucracy the Minister's Department expect local authorities to engage in. I recall the Minister assuring me that schemes with less than 12 houses would not require the specific sanction of his Department before they go ahead. I know of schemes that are still awaiting the sanction of the Minister's Department. Even the limited amount of house building provided for under last year's Estimates has slowed down and is being dragged out in a very penny-pinching manner by the Minister.

The Minister did refer in his contribution to the need for a better approach to the problem of house repairs and improvements. The results of the survey, which have been circulated to local authorities dealing with the conditions of existing housing stock, show that there are many houses in the public and private sectors which are in a serious state of disrepair and require immediate attention by the Minister. I would therefore, welcome from the Minister a more extensive form of home improvement grant than that confined to thatched houses. A more urgent approach is required to deal with the serious housing problem we have. The time for the Minister to start is now in the season when we are celebrating the most famous homeless family in the history of humankind. There will be many living in cribs here this Christmas, young families who are, effectively, homeless and living in appalling conditions either with in-laws or in private rented accommodation.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Go raibh maith agat, and lest the Minister be tempted in any way, it is appropriate that I would read now the Standing Order which governs Supplementary Estimates. It is Standing Order 128 and it states that in the discussion of a Supplementary Estimate the debate shall be confined to the items constituting same and no discussion may be raised on the original Estimates save in so far as it may be necessary to explain or illustrate the particular items under discussion.

Mr. Flynn

It would have been more useful if the Chair had made that announcement a little earlier so that Deputies could have confined themselves to the items covered by the Supplementary Estimate. I am happy to deal with the matters raised but, unfortunately, they must be left until the main Estimate debate. I am prevented under Standing Order 128 from dealing with them now. Far be it for me to run away from anything.

Deputy Shatter raised the question of driving tests. I announced in September that an extra 39 testers would be recruited and 32 of those are now operational. The rest will come onstream shortly. We also have contracts with another 11 testers. The backlog fell in November by 1,000 and we expect it to continue to fall. As far as driving test applications are concerned we hope to reach the stage where it can be regarded as being reasonable next September.

Supplementary Estimates 1990. - Vote 25: Environment.

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 18 Dec 1990