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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 4 Dec 1991

Vol. 414 No. 1

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Recruitment of Women to Defence Forces.

Proinsias De Rossa

Ceist:

8 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Minister for Defence the number of women who have been recruited to the Defence Forces so far in 1991; if this includes any personnel recruited for apprenticeships in the Army and Air Corps; if he will outline the latest position regarding recruitment of women to the Naval Service; if any overall target has been set for an overall percentage of female personnel in the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Nora Owen

Ceist:

18 Mrs. Owen asked the Minister for Defence if he will outline (1) the number of women who have joined the FCÁ, (2) the nature of their functions and (3) whether these functions are the same as those of men; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Brian O'Shea

Ceist:

22 Mr. O'Shea asked the Minister for Defence if he will outline the units to which females recruited to the FCÁ have been assigned, the number recruited as at 30 September, 1991; whether females may enlist in An Slua Muirí; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 8, 18 and 22 together. A total of 15 women have been recruited to the Permanent Defence Force to date in 1991. Of this total seven were apprentices, six were cadets, one was a dental officer and one a chemist.

The number of women enlisted in the FCÁ to date is 196. The enlistment of a further four women is currently in progress. This will bring the total of female FCÁ personnel to 200.

The female FCÁ recruits are being assigned to an FCÁ basic training course the syllabus for which is the same in all respects as that used for male FCÁ recruits. Women in the FCÁ will fill a range of appointments subject to the same restrictions that apply to women serving in the Permanent Defence Force whereby women do not serve in appointments which would require them to undertake operational duties. In practice this means that women will be mainly employed in service corps units such as signals, supply and transport, military policy and the medical corps.

A military board is at present carrying out a review of the whole question of the employment of women in the Defence Forces.

Would the Minister agree that, if anything, despite the addition of 15 recruits during 1991, there has been a substantial decrease in the number of women recruited as compared with 1990 when I understand 34 women were recruited? Would the Minister explain the reason there has been this substantial fall-off? Can he advise the House if he intends to introduce a quota for the overall number of female members in the Defence Forces and would he not agree that this would be the most effective way of ensuring that we redress this antiquated and antediluvian attitude on the part of the Government which keeps women out of the Defence Forces?

Some progress has been made, even though some people might think it has been too slow, in recruiting women.

We are going backwards.

A number of steps have been taken. In 1991, for the first time, women were eligible to compete in competitions for apprenticeships in the Permanent Defence Force and arrangements have been made to continue this policy in future years.

That is to be welcomed.

As I indicated in my initial response, a military board are at present carrying out a review of the question of the employment of women in the Defence Forces. I have a special interest in that regard; I will be happy to pursue it and to ensure that women are given a positive role, not only in the Permanent Defence Force but in the FCÁ.

Is the Minister aware that one of his predecessors gave a commitment in this House that he would seriously examine the question of involving women in duties other than service duties? He also said he hoped to be in a position shortly to make an announcement that women would be involved in the Army and FCÁ in operational duties. Has progress been made in that regard? It was suggested earlier this year that 500 women would be recruited to the FCÁ in 1991. Has this been done?

I am not aware of the commitment given in this regard. Is the Deputy referring to operational duties?

As I mentioned in my reply, the employment of women does not mean that they will undertake operational duties. I would not wish to give a commitment that the system will be changed overnight in that regard but I will look into the matter.

Will the Minister indicate whether 200 females were enlisted in the FCÁ this year and, if so, will more women be recruited next spring? Is the Minister happy with the provision of non-officers' sleeping and toilet facilities in the various establishments at Glen of Imaal, Gormanston and Castlebar for FCÁ personnel, particularly females? My understanding is that there is only one shower unit provided in many of them.

There is clearly an intent to widen the scope of this question, which is hardly in order.

So far this year 196 women have been recruited to the FCÁ and a further four are being recruited at present, which will bring the number to 200, in line with the undertaking given. I am not happy with the facilities. A great deal of work and expenditure will be involved in bringing them up to a reasonable and acceptable standard. A predecessor of mine pointed out this problem and the massive expense which would be involved in providing facilities with which we would be happy.

Can I take it that the Minister's answer to my question in regard to the minimum quota of women in the Defence Forces is one of the items which will be the subject matter of the committee of review on the recruitment of women to the Defence Forces? Some time ago we were advised in the House that it was not intended to recruit female members to the Naval Service. Will the Minister indicate whether that is still the position? If so, what steps will be taken to end this invidious discrimination against female members of the community who wish to serve at sea on behalf of the State?

As the Deputy knows, duties in the Naval Service are mainly of an operational nature and, consequently, there has not been any recruitment of women to the Naval Service. This is in line with the general policy which I outlined of the non-recruitment of women in operational areas in the Permanent Defence Force. I should point out that all Naval Service personnel are required to serve at sea and the limitations in regard to space on naval vessels make it very difficult — and indeed impracticable — for male and female crew members to have separate accommodation. There are difficulties and problems of a practical nature in that regard. The whole matter is under consideration by the review group.

Deputy McCartan rose.

I thought we had dwelt long enough on this question. I will allow a very brief question.

Will the Minister accept that his explanation of difficulties in accommodating men and women aboard naval ships is a spurious justification which is not available to any other employer of men and women in the workplace? Will he agree it is time the Government recognised they are hiding behind a very embarrassing reason?

No, I do not accept that it is unreasonable. If women are employed in a particular occupation there should be certain standards, indeed I would insist on them. In those circumstances, it is not unreasonable to state the reasons for not being able to accommodate them. However, progress has been made in this area and all these matters will be the subject of very serious consideration by the review committee.

Does the Minister envisage a summer training camp for female members of the FCÁ?

The Deputy will have to put down a separate question in that regard.

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