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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 4 Dec 1991

Vol. 414 No. 1

Solicitors (Amendment) Bill, 1991: Second Stage.

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

This Bill amends and extends the Solicitors Acts, 1954 and 1960, and provides for related matters. New legislation relating to solicitors occurs relatively rarely. The principal legislation in this area dates from 1954. The legislation in 1960 was made necessary mainly as a result of a 1958 Supreme Court decision that certain disciplinary powers conferred under the 1954 Act were unconstitutional. The present Bill, which is the product of many years work in my Department, is the third major measure in this area of the law since the foundation of the State. I am very pleased and honoured to introduce it.

The background to the Bill is that for some years past there have been continuing demands for changes in the law relating to solicitors. Specific issues and problems arising from the provision of legal services by solicitors, have been raised frequently in parliamentary questions and adjournment debates in this House. There has been persistent public criticism of the way in which complaints about solicitors are dealt with by the Law Society, and about difficulties in obtaining redress for alleged negligence of solicitors. Commitments have been given in this House by successive Ministers for Justice that legislation to amend the Solicitors Acts, 1954 and 1960, would be introduced in response to public demand and to take account of certain recommendations made by the former Restrictive Practices Commission and more recently by the Fair Trade Commission. The Bill will meet most of the demands for changes that have been made.

The Bill proposes extensive changes in the law relating to solicitors. It is a major reforming measure and is being introduced to better protect the interests of clients of solicitors, to promote the highest standards in the profession, and to enable solicitors to adapt and respond to the commercial and economic changes which they are being exposed to, as part of a wider community.

Although legislation exists to control other areas of professional practice, traditionally there has been a more extensive code of statutory measures to control the solicitors' profession, even before the foundation of the State. This has been due, essentially, to the nature of the work of solicitors which involves handling large amounts of moneys belonging to their clients. Unfortunately this can, on occasions, lead to dishonesty by solicitors and possible ruin for clients, if adequate safeguards are not provided.

I hasten to add that the vast majority of solicitors are hard-working and honest professionals, and that the money misappropriated by dishonest solicitors is very small in comparison with the total amount handled by the profession in their dealings with the public. However, it is in the interests of both the public and the profession that adequate statutory provisions are in place to prevent, as far as possible, acts of dishonesty by any member of the profession, and to deal quickly and effectively with such cases as do arise. The proposals in the Bill deal with these concerns, and address other matters where it has been shown that the public need further protection in their dealings with solicitors.

The proposals in this Bill should be viewed also against a background of a rapidly expanding profession. When the 1960 legislation was being debated there were about 1,354 solicitors holding practising certificates in the State, now there are about 3,500 solicitors in private practice. Changes in admission requirements introduced by the Law Society in the summer of 1989 have resulted in a large increase in the numbers of students being admitted to the Society's law school and this increase is likely to continue.

The impact of changes affecting the legal profession will not be confined to the domestic market. Irish lawyers are already entitled to establish practices in other European states under the terms of an EC Directive on mutual recognition of professional qualifications, which was implemented here on 2 January 1991. In fact, Ireland was the first EC state to implement the Directive. Already about 100 Irish qualified solicitors have been admitted to practise in England and Wales under the Directive. Outside the EC the current negotiations on the GATT Uruguay Round extend to the provision of certain legal services, and liberalisation in this area may lead to further possibilities for Irish solicitors wishing to provide services abroad in the future. The increasingly international climate in which lawyers operate, and the general trend towards deregulation of services, needs to be reflected in the statutory provisions which govern members of the legal profession and the manner in which they can conduct their business. This Bill pays due regard to that need.

Naturally, the main focus of a Solicitors Bill will be on domestic matters. Perhaps the most important proposals in the Bill consist of a range of measures which are designed to strengthen the protection for members of the public who engage the services of solicitors and to deal with some specific problems that have arisen in this regard. I believe that a continued policy of self-regulation with adequate safeguards to protect the interests of the public is the best system for controlling the solicitors' profession. The present law confers important powers on the Law Society to regulate and control solicitors. However, adequate safeguards must be in place to protect the interests of the public where a profession is entrusted with self-regulation.

There are major proposals in Part III of the Bill relating to complaints about solicitors. Section 8 will give new powers to the Law Society to impose sanctions on solicitors who are found to have provided inadequate or shoddy services. Heretofore the disciplinary powers under the solicitors Acts, have been confined to cases of misconduct only, which excludes allegations of inadequate or negligent services. Penalties in such cases will include limiting the costs which a solicitor may recover from a client or requiring a solicitor to refund costs paid by a client, and to rectify any error at the solicitor's own expense arising from the inadequate services. Section 9 will empower the society to order solicitors, who are found to have charged excessive fees, to refund fees paid by their clients or to waive the right to recover costs.

I am satisfied that these extended powers will provide a speedy and inexpensive remedy for many complaints against solicitors, while not affecting a client's right to seek redress through the courts.

Public concern has been expressed for some time about the lack of an effective system for dealing with complaints against solicitors, and the absence of any public involvement in the process. To meet that public concern the Bill provides in section 15 for the establishment of an independent adjudicator, to investigate complaints about the society's handling of complaints by members of the public about solicitors. Under the proposals my consent will be required for the appointment of the independent adjudicator, and it is specifically provided that the adjudicator, who must not be, or have been, a practising solicitor or barrister, will be independent in the exercise of his functions. Among his or her wide powers, the adjudicator will be able to make recommendations to the society in relation to investigated cases, and in relation to the society's procedures for handling complaints. The adjudicator will be required to report to me in relation to the discharge of his duties, and these reports will be laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas. The Law Society will be required to meet the cost of this operation.

I am aware that the Law Society are opposed to funding the independent adjudicator. I would point out that the introduction of an adjudicator has become necessary here, as it became necessary in neighbouring jurisdictions, for one reason and one reason only — that is the failure of the solicitors profession to live up to the responsibilities implicit in a system of self-regulation, by providing a system for disciplining their members in a way that commands public confidence. It is also necessary to protect the taxpayer in this matter, and it is not unreasonable to expect that, if extra measures are needed to restore public confidence in the arrangements whereby a self-regulating profession deals with complaints from the public, then the profession itself should bear the cost involved, which should not be very great in this case.

Provision is made in section 16 for the appointment, for the first time, of up to five lay members nominated by me to the Disciplinary Committee of the High Court, to represent the interests of the general public. This committee, which is appointed by the President of the High Court, is responsible for conducting inquiries into allegations of misconduct against solicitors. Another new provision, in section 21, will require the Law Society to publish information annually on the number and nature of complaints about the conduct of solicitors, and the outcome of their investigations. This should help to maintain public confidence in the investigation of complaints by the Law Society, particularly in view of the important expansion in the scope of complaints of negligent or shoddy work by solicitors, proposed in the Bill.

It is likely that for cases where serious loss arises as a result of alleged negligence by a solicitor, the client affected will seek redress through the courts. A serious problem in the past has been the absence of arrangements to ensure that funds will be available to meet the cost of damages awarded in such cases.

I understand that the vast majority of practising solicitors are covered by professional indemnity insurance at present, but an important provision is included in section 25 that will enable the Law Society to require all solicitors to be covered by indemnity insurance against losses arising from civil liability claims. The detailed provisions in this section provide a flexible framework for the Law Society to achieve this, and include a provision for arbitration on disputes arising between a solicitor and his client in relation to any claim. Every practising solicitor will have to satisfy the Law Society that he or she is complying with the indemnity regulations, before a practising certificate may be issued to him or her for any practice year. Although I have been assured that the Law Society will introduce the necessary arrangement under these provisions quickly, I have included a provision empowering me to direct the Law Society to make the necessary regulations, and to specify the terms and conditions on which indemnity cover shall be provided under the regulations.

Another problem highlighted in the past, has been the difficulty encountered by some people in obtaining the services of a solicitor for the purposes of taking an action against another solicitor. While acknowledging that the Law Society have made arrangements in recent years to assist such people to obtain the services of a solicitor, the matter is sufficiently important, in my view, to require statutory provisions. Accordingly, section 61 places a statutory obligation on the Law Society to maintain a register of solicitors who are prepared to act for any person who is unable to engage the services of a solicitor to take civil proceedings against another solicitor. The Law Society will also be required to take all reasonable measures to assist any person to obtain the services of a solicitor for such purposes.

The provisions in section 62 address some other very important issues which have come to my attention, and which affect many people who instruct solicitors. These are in the area of solicitor and client costs. A solicitor's client should be entitled to know in advance, what a solicitor will charge or is likely to charge for providing legal services to him or her. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. The Bill places a duty on solicitors to provide clients, at the outset, with particulars in writing of the basis on which clients will be charged for legal services.

In contentious business, for example in personal injury actions, a solicitor will also be required to inform the client of any circumstances in which he or she will be lible to pay additional costs to the solicitor, over and above those recovered from the losing party. At the conclusion of a successful litigated case, a solicitor will be required to provide the client with details of any fees claimed or received from the losing party, if the solicitor proposes to charge additional fees to the client. I am particularly concerned about an apparently widespread practice among solicitors of deducting a substantial premium — often 10 per cent or more from the damages awarded to their clients in personal injury cases, over and above the costs payable by the losing party. Those costs should normally cover most if not all of the necessary costs incurred by the successful client's legal representatives. To deal with this problem, section 62 prohibits solicitors from deducting an amount from clients damages without the prior agreement in writing of the client, and it prohibits solicitors from charging costs to their clients on the basis of a percentage of any damages that may be awarded to a client. A solicitor who is found to be in breach of the new costs provisions will be guilty of misconduct, and will be liable to disciplinary action.

I expect these provisions are unlikely to be welcomed by some legal practitioners, but they are designed to reassure clients about the extent of their financial obligations to their solicitors, and should minimise the potential for disputes between solicitors and clients in this crucially important area.

On the principle that prevention is better than cure, certain provisions have been included in the Bill to empower the Law Society to intervene in a solicitor's practice in certain circumstances to protect the interests of clients. At present, the Law Society's powers of intervention are confined, for practical purposes, to situations where a solicitor has been guilty of dishonesty. Under the provisions in sections 30 and 31, the Law Society will be empowered to intervene in the practice of a sole practitioner who has died or who is temporarily incapacitated by illness or accident, and to take whatever action they deem necessary in the interests of the clients.

The circumstances where the Law Society may apply to the High Court for freezing orders on solicitors' bank accounts are being extended under section 27, to protect clients' moneys held by solicitors. Section 67 places an obligation on the Law Society to make regulations, with the concurrence of the President of the High Court, to require solicitors in general to maintain clients' moneys in deposit accounts, and to pay interest on such moneys to the client. I am aware that the Law Society have already made regulations in regard to this matter, but I believe that a statutory provision is appropriate to offer complete protection to solicitors' clients.

Another proposal which may, on the surface, appear restrictive but which is designed to protect the public is the proposal in section 34 which restricts newly qualified solicitors from setting up in practice, without the consent of the Law Society, as sole practitioners, or in partnership, for a period of three years following qualification. Similar restrictions apply in neighbouring jurisdictions, and solicitors affected by the restriction will have an opportunity to appeal to the High Court.

The proposals in the Bill which I have mentioned so far fall within a general heading of proposals to strengthen the rights, and means of redress, for members of the public in their dealings with solicitors, and to increase the powers of the Law Society to act to protect the interests of such persons where necessary.

There are other proposals in the Bill which will also benefit, directly or indirectly, the clients of solicitors. In this regard I should like to refer to a particular change which is being made in the statutory provisions governing the compensation fund maintained by the Law Society to compensate for losses arising from dishonesty by solicitors. That is a change introduced in section 28 of the Bill which will limit the scope of the statutory compensation fund to clients of solicitors only. The change is necessary as a result of a Supreme Court decision in 1989 which decided that, as presently drafted, section 21 of the Solicitors Act, 1960, gives access to the fund to financial institutions who incur loss as a result of undertakings given by solicitors.

It was never the intention that financial institutions, engaged in large financial transactions, in pursuit of their own business and relying on undertakings from solicitors, should be able to claim against the compensation fund should the solicitor default in circumstances in which the financial institutions are not clients of the solicitors.

Financial institutions, such as banks, have historically relied on solicitors' undertakings for purely business reasons and did so for many decades without any expectation that they would be entitled to have recourse to the compensation fund. That possibility only arose in recent years because of a Supreme Court decision which I have referred to and which gave a particular interpretation to the existing law. Financial institutions are sufficiently strong and have sufficient expert advice available to them to enable them to decide whether to accept a solicitor's undertaking, without having to rely on the compensation fund as a form of insurance. Of course, if there is a default on the part of a solicitor, a bank incurring a loss would be entitled to sue the solicitor personally, or his firm, as at present.

A very large claim against the compensation fund in favour of a financial institution as a result of a solicitor's undertaking, of, say, some millions of pounds could so deplete the fund as to deprive clients of solicitors, whom the fund is designed to protect, of the benefit of being able to claim against the fund.

Solicitors are, of course, in a strong position vis-à-vis their clients and frequently have actual control of clients' moneys. It is in the scheme of things, therefore, that it is the clients who require protection rather than institutions who are doing business with solicitors at arm's length, as opposed to depending on a solicitor and client relationship.

Another group of proposals in the Bill is concerned with measures to increase competition in the provision of legal services and to offer greater freedom of choice to the consumer of these services.

Certain monopolies were created under the Solicitors Act, 1954, which restrict the preparation of particular legal documents for reward to solicitors. These are given legislative expression in section 58 of that Act. The principal monopolies created under the section relate to conveyancing and probate.

Monopolies and restrictive practices reduce choice to the consumer and inhibit competition among suppliers wishing to provide the same service to the public. The solicitors' monopoly of conveyancing work was substantially diluted by the enactment of the provision in section 31 of the Building Societies Act, 1989, which empowers building societies to provide conveyancing services to the public subject to regulations which I am empowered to make.

The Fair Trade Commission, in their report last year on restrictive practices in the legal profession, recommended that banks should be similarly empowered to provide conveyancing services. I agree with the commission's recommendation. It would be clearly anomalous if building societies could provide such services but banks — who compete with the societies in providing other services in connection with property purchase — could not.

Accordingly, section 74 of the Bill contains an enabling provision to empower banks to provide conveyancing services to the public. The provision is based on similar provisions in section 31 of the Building Societies Act, 1989, and includes provisions to protect the public from conflicts of interests and to ensure that adequate compensation will be available in respect of negligence, fraud or dishonesty on the part of any bank providing these services.

I also stress that in making the necessary regulations I intend to ensure that conveyancing services provided by banks and building societies will be provided under the supervision and responsibility of qualified solicitors employed by those institutions.

Finally, I emphasise that this proposal arises from the need to offer greater choice to the consumer in the area of conveyancing services. It is not motivated by any concern about the interests of financial institutions. If those institutions do not offer a sufficiently attractive conveyancing service to the public they will not gain business. If they do then the public will gain.

I believe that changes in the solicitors' monopoly position in regard to such an important matter as conveyancing should be limited for the present to allowing financial institutions to do this work. I believe that it would be premature to go further, as the chairman of the Fair Trade Commission recommended, and permit the introduction of a completely new profession of licensed conveyancer. I think we should wait and see what benefits result for the public from the changes proposed in the Bill, including fee advertising, to which I will shortly refer, before considering if there is a need for more radical measures.

As regards probate, the position at present is that the drawing up of wills for reward is reserved to solicitors under section 58 of the Solicitors Act, 1954, although anybody can make a valid will either for himself or for another person without any professional legal advice if no fee or reward is involved.

Furthermore, anybody may extract grants of probate or administration, both in the Probate Office and in many of the district probate registries, without the intervention of a solicitor if this is not done in return for reward. However, the taking of instructions to apply for a grant of probate or administration when done for reward is reserved to solicitors under section 58 of the Solicitors Act, 1954.

The proposal in section 73 of the Bill would permit banking companies and trust corporations to prepare wills and to take instructions for a grant of probate or administration, or to oppose such a grant, for reward.

Such companies are already entitled to act as executors or administrators of an estate, either solely or jointly with other persons. That is the position under section 30 of the Succession Act, 1965, and I am not aware of any problems that have arisen for the public in connection with the services provided by banking companies and trust corporations in this area since 1965. In effect, the changes proposed in section 73 of the Bill will extend the services which these companies can already provide in this area to the preparation of wills and applications for grants of probate and administration.

For the public, this will introduce an element of consumer choice and the possibility of an alternative one-stop service being provided in regard to wills and probate. Such competition should be to the benefit of clients.

By confining the degree of deregulation in this area to banking companies and trust corporations, which was the minimum measure recommended by the Fair Trade Commission, the interests of the public should receive maximum protection both in regard to redress for complaints about any service provided and the availability of resources to provide compensation where necessary.

Of course, the solicitors' profession may not welcome the prospect that very remunerative areas of legal work such as conveyancing and probate in which they have enjoyed a monopoly for so long are being opened up to others, even to the limited extent proposed in sections 73 and 74 of the Bill. However, the Law Society has been preparing the profession for some time for the need for change and I am sure that the profession will adapt quickly enough to the climate of increased competition in the provision of legal services that is envisaged as part of the policy of this Bill.

I am aware that since the publication of the Bill the proposals in sections 73 and 74 to empower banks to provide conveyancing and probate services have received a lot of public comment. I shall listen with particular interest to the views of Deputies in relation to these proposals. I consider that it would be appropriate and particularly useful to subject the detailed proposals in relation to these matters to careful examination and teasing out on Committee Stage. But I would emphasise that these proposals have been drawn up with the consumer in mind, and in light of the fact that statutory provisions have been enacted already to empower building societies to provide conveyancing services.

Following regulations made by the Law Society in December 1988, solicitors are permitted to advertise their services, subject to certain general limitations contained in those regulations. These limitations include a prohibition on specifying a fee for any service which a solicitor is willing to provide. Advertising of fees is likely to encourage competition in fees, leading to lower costs for the consumer. There is no restriction on solicitors advertising fees and charges in England and Wales. That is believed to have resulted in substantial reductions in costs for the clients of solicitors there, particularly in the area of conveyancing.

I agree with the Fair Trade Commission's conclusion that price advertising by solicitors could lead to increased efficiency, a reduction in costs and the provision of routine legal services at a reasonable cost. Accordingly, section 63 of the Bill contains a provision that would prevent the Law Society from prohibiting fee advertising by solicitors for any specified legal service. I am aware that the Law Society are opposed to this provision, but I have to say that their reaction seemed to me to be somewhat "over-the-top", and their reservations not very convincing.

While I would accept that it might not be possible or practicable to quote a fee for all legal services provided by solicitors, particularly where the service is not standardised, surely it is possible for a solicitor to quote a fee for the routine and standardised work that comprises much of the work for which a solicitor is instructed, for example in the areas of conveyancing and for drafting of wills and probate work. In most of these areas standard scales of fees have applied traditionally, and many solicitors should be able to estimate the economic cost of providing such services to the public and to quote a fee.

The Law Society have suggested that fee advertising is likely to cause confusion and lead to the public being exposed to the risk of "shoddy" or careless work and unsatisfactory legal services. I am rather surprised that the Law Society should take such a negative view of the general level of competence and expertise among qualified practising solicitors. To the extent that individual cases could arise where work done by a solicitor falls short of acceptable professional standards — for whatever reason — I would expect that the Law Society will be able to deal adequately with such cases under the extensive new powers that will be conferred on the society in this Bill. It will remain the responsibility of the Law Society to maintain acceptable general standards of professional conduct in the profession as part of the policy of self-regulation.

Before leaving the question of advertising, I would like to refer to one other aspect of solicitors advertising that is of concern to the Government, this is, the recourse by some solicitors to high profile advertising to make unsolicited approaches to the public inviting instructions in personal injury matters. It is not in the public interest that solicitors freedom to advertise should be used to generate or encourage litigation that would not otherwise arise.

The Government are very concerned about the explosion of litigation in the personal injuries area in recent years, and its impact on the cost of liability insurance. There is evidence from remarks made by judges about the extent of spurious personal injury claims coming before the courts, that a compensation culture is becoming endemic whereby people are encouraged to initiate proceedings in the belief that the most trivial accidents are deserving of compensation as a matter of course. This social development may have received added impetus with the introduction of advertising by solicitors. Specific provisions are included in section 63 of the Bill to enable the Law Society to deal with this problem by prohibiting the type of "ambulance chasing" advertising indulged in by some solicitors and, generally, any advertising that is contrary to the public interest. The type of advertising to which I have referred comes within that description. If the Law Society require any further guidance in this area, I shall be happy to provide it.

A further group of proposals in Part III of the Bill is concerned with disciplinary matters in relation to solicitors. They extend and amend the provisions in Part II of the Solicitors (Amendment) Act, 1960. I have referred already to the fact that, for the first time, the society are being empowered to impose sanctions on solicitors in response to complaints about the provision of inadequate services and excessive charges; that is under sections 8 and 9 of the Bill.

Provisions for appeals by solicitors to the High Court against the society's decisions are included in section 11. In addition, the society may require a disciplined solicitor, under section 13, to pay a contribution not exceeding £1,000 towards the cost of investigating complaints made against him.

Formal inquiries into allegations of misconduct against solicitors will continue to be the responsibility of the disciplinary committee, appointed by the President of the High Court. Under section 17 of the Bill, the disciplinary committee will be empowered to impose limited penalties where it finds that a solicitor has been guilty of misconduct. The disciplinary committee have no powers to impose penalties under the 1960 Solicitors Act. They report findings of misconduct to the High Court, and the court deals with the issue of penalties. That position arose from the Supreme Court judgment in 1958 to which I referred at the outset.

The giving of powers to the disciplinary committee to impose limited penalties, which was also recommended by the Fair Trade Commission, will enable the committee to dispose of some less serious cases of misconduct, without involving High Court proceedings. Provisions are included in the section to enable appeals to be taken to the High Court against decisions of the disciplinary committee, including a right of appeal to clients on the ground that a penalty imposed by the committee is inadequate.

I am advised that the limited powers to impose penalties proposed for the committee will not breach the constitutional requirements laid down by the Supreme Court in the "Solicitors Act" case in 1958. For more serious cases of misconduct the range of penalties which the High Court may impose is being extended to allow for greater choice. That is being done in section 18 of the Bill, which substitutes a new section 8 in the Solicitors (Amendment) Act, 1960.

The restrictions on the employment of persons who have been struck off the roll of solicitors are being tightened by the provisions in sections 19 and 20 of the Bill. The control of the Law Society over the issue of practising certificates to solicitors will be strengthened by many of the provisions in Part IV of the Bill. Section 55 extends the grounds upon which a practising certificate may be refused, or issued, subject to conditions. There are important provisions in section 53 to enable the Law Society to impose conditions on a solicitor's current practising certificate.

Under section 52 the Law Society will be entitled to apply to the High Court to have the practising certificate of a solicitor suspended where there has been a serious failure by the solicitor to comply with any regulations made under the Solicitors Acts. Another new provision, in section 51, will clarify the position about solicitors in employment.

Henceforth any qualified solicitor who is full-time employed in connection with the provision of any legal services will be deemed to be acting as a solicitor for the purposes of the Solicitors Acts. This will mean that all such solicitors will require practising certificates. They will come under the jurisdiction of the Law Society. All measures in the Solicitors Acts designed for the protection of clients will apply to them.

While the changes made by the Law Society in 1989 in the admission requirements for solicitors has eased the position for law graduates wishing to qualify as solicitors, the Bill contains further proposals to ease entry into the profession. Section 45 proposes more liberal arrangements for barristers who wish to qualify as solicitors.

The period of practice required by a former barrister will be reduced to a maximum of three years, compared with five years practice at present. The barrister will be exempted from any Law Society examinations in law which he passed as part of the examinations for the degree of barrister-at-law, and will not have to pass the compulsory Irish language examination for solicitors if he has already passed, or was exempted from the Irish language examination required for barristers.

These changes should greatly assist the general policy of freer interchange between the branches of the legal profession recommended by the Fair Trade Commission. I would hope that generous reciprocal arrangements will be offered by the professional bodies responsible for barristers, to enable practising solicitors to opt to become barristers. There are no statutory provisions regulating that aspect of inter-professional transfer.

Will there ever be?

The Fair Trade Commission concluded that some form of apprenticeship in-training was necessary as part of the training of solicitors. However, unduly long periods of apprenticeship, or other restrictive provisions relating to apprenticeship requirements, can restrict or delay entry to the profession of solicitor. The terms of apprenticeship should be consistent with the duration of the professional in-training provided by the Law Society in the Law School.

Terms of apprenticeship of up to five years, which can apply under the present statutory provisions, are clearly too long, having regard to the fact that the professional training provided by the Law Society can be completed within three years of admission to the Law School. Accordingly, section 38 of the Bill empowers the Law Society to prescribe terms of indentures of apprenticeship not exceeding three years. These regulations may be applied to indentures of apprenticeship in existence on the date when the regulations take effect, so that apprentices serving longer periods of apprenticeships at present will benefit from the new arrangements.

A number of other provisions will assist the profession in providing apprenticeships for the increased numbers entering the professional law school.

At present, a practising solicitor may not have more than one apprentice at the same time by statutory requirement, although a second apprentice may be taken on with the consent of the society in special circumstances. Section 42 of the Bill will allow a solicitor who is a sole practitioner, or is in partnership, to take on an apprentice for every two assistant solicitors employed in the practice. Section 47 empowers the Law Society to make regulations providing for arrangements where apprenticeships may be served with qualified solicitors in Northern Ireland, England and Wales.

The Fair Trade Commission recommended the introduction of common vocational training for solicitors and barristers leading, possibly, to the formation of an institute for legal education.

For many years there has been concern about legal education. A number of my predecessors have referred to this matter publicly. Put simply, it is very unsatisfactory that the resources of so many law schools and colleges are involved in what seems to be an unco-ordinated way in the education and training of our lawyers. There is a considerable amount of duplication between the various bodies involved.

There is a need to co-ordinate all this activity in a meaningful and planned way and streamline the process of legal training with a view to making economic use of the limited teaching resources that are available. It is time to devise a better and more equitable way of channelling our highly qualified law graduates into the professional streams, than the present uneven arrangements.

I am aware that the professional bodies and the universities are currently engaged in discussions about the reform of the present arrangements for providing legal education and training. It would be preferable if new arrangements that will meet the concerns that have been expressed for some time about legal education, were introduced voluntarily by the various educational agencies involved. If this does not happen within a reasonable time, I shall propose suitable measures to deal with the situation. In the meantime, in anticipation that arrangements will be introduced for joint vocational training, I have included a provision in section 43 of the Bill to enable the Law Society to join with other bodies in providing joint or common examinations and courses leading, in appropriate cases, to a joint or common qualification.

The final group of proposals in the Bill to which I would like to refer at this stage is concerned with the removal of restrictions on the form of working arrangements within which solicitors may practice, and the admission of foreign qualified solicitors to practise here.

There is a statutory prohibition in section 64 of the Solicitors Act, 1954 on a corporate body acting as a solicitor. Accordingly a solicitor may practise only as a sole practitioner, or in partnership with another solicitor.

The absolute prohibition of incorporation by solicitors may be unnecessarily restrictive in modern circumstances. Similar prohibitions have been removed in the case of solicitors practising in England, Wales and Scotland. Section 64 of the Bill contains an enabling provision that will allow the Law Society to make regulations providing for the incorporation of solicitors' practices.

These regulations will require my concurrence and prior consultation with the Minister for Industry and Commerce in that regard. I can assure the House that I shall be vigilant to ensure that adequate safeguards will be included in any such regulations to protect the clients of incorporated practices. In particular, the inclusion of this enabling provision does not reflect any settled view as to whether and in what circumstances, solicitors will be able to practise in corporate form with limited liability.

Further enabling provisions in section 65 of the Bill relate to the possible establishment, first, of multi-disciplinary practices involving solicitors and persons from other professions, and second, of multi-national practices involving Irish solicitors and lawyers in other jurisdictions. Such partnerships are prohibited at present by section 59 of the Solicitors Act, 1954.

I am aware that there is considerable debate in the profession about the pros and cons of establishing multi-disciplinary practices, and that vital considerations arise which affect the public interest in regard to such issues as solicitors' independence, standards of conduct, and conflicts of interest, in relation to any potential working association between solicitors and non-solicitors.

These issues are being debated at present, and it may be some time before a consensus emerges in the profession about the question of multidisciplinary practices. If proposals are eventually made by the Law Society to enable such practices to be established, my concurrence will be needed for the necessary regulations, and I shall have to consult with the Minister for Industry and Commerce before giving my consent.

The increasingly international dimension in legal practice, and the implications for the provision of legal services of the European Community provisions on freedom of establishment and freedom to provide services, are widely recognised. These developments have led to debate here and elsewhere on the justification for restrictions on multinational practices of lawyers.

The statutory restriction has been removed in England and Wales for both multidisciplinary and multinational practices. Similar proposals have been published in the case of Northern Ireland. The enabling provisions in section 65 of the Bill will require my concurrence before regulations can be made by the Law Society to permit multinational practices. The establishment of such practices raises important issues of principle regarding safeguards for clients and disciplinary and regulatory arrangements.

Another aspect arising from the international mobility of lawyers is the need for flexible arrangements to allow for the reciprocal recognition of lawyers qualifications and their right of establishment in foreign jurisdictions. This is now possible for lawyers qualified in any EC country under the EC Directive on the mutual recognition of higher education diplomas which, as I have already mentioned, came into force in Ireland last January. Under it, Irish solicitors and barristers, among others, are entitled to establish a practice in any other EC state, subject to any aptitude test that the designated authorities in the foreign state are entitled to apply. The Law Societies here and in Britain and Northern Ireland have agreed not to apply any aptitude test to solicitors from one of those jurisdictions wishing to establish in another.

Section 46 of the Bill provides a framework to enable reciprocal provisions to be negotiated to allow lawyers who are qualified to practise in non-EC states, to be admitted to practise as solicitors in this State, and for Irish solicitors to be admitted to practise in the foreign jurisdiction. While any such arrangements would be negotiated by the Law Society, the section provides that they cannot be introduced in respect of any jurisdiction without an order being made by me, and I shall have to be satisfied that reciprocal provisions will be in operation in respect of Irish solicitors before I can make an order that would allow lawyers from any such foreign jurisdiction to practise as solicitors here, under these provisions.

I have referred already to most of the miscellaneous provisions in Part VII of the Bill. The proposal in section 66 provides that every solicitor holding a practising certificate will be entitled to act as a commissioner for oaths. That has been the position in neighbouring jurisdictions for some time. There are many other proposals in the Bill of a minor or technical nature to which I do not propose to refer at this stage. We will have an opportunity to study all of the proposals in the Bill in detail later.

In preparing this Bill I have been conscious of the need to strike a balance between the demand for legislation that will give adequate protection to members of the public who need to consult and instruct solicitors, and which will at the same time provide a framework that will give members of the solicitors profession the maximum latitude to provide the range of services required by the public, in an increasingly international context.

The many proposals in the Bill in relation to complaints, sanctions, discipline and regulatory controls against solicitors must be seen in the context of the overall policy of self-regulation by the profession, which is maintained in this Bill.

I have been concerned, in the light of the recommendations made by the Fair Trade Commission, to do away with unnecessary statutory monopolies enjoyed by solicitors, which can no longer be justified in the public interest. The changes that are proposed in this Bill to allow increased competition with solicitors in the areas of conveyancing and probate are not radical ones, and I am very conscious of the paramount need to safeguard the public interest in putting forward these proposals.

There has been long and comprehensive consultation with the Law Society in regard to the proposals in the Bill. I would like to express my thanks for the ready co-operation of successive presidents of the Law Society, and of the ad hoc working group of the council of the society who were involved in the discussions with my Department. I think it is fair to say that there is a large measure of agreement with the Law Society on the proposals in the Bill, even if some sharp differences of opinion remain on some issues. Indeed it would be surprising if it were otherwise given the range and size of the Bill.

I believe that this Bill will benefit the public and profession alike. It will help to revitalise a profession which is already educating itself to changes arising from domestic and external developments.

The public can look forward to legal services being provided in a competitive and more user-friendly environment where cost, efficiency and quality of service will increasingly determine consumer choice. And the Law Society and the High Court will be given adequate powers to deal promptly and effectively with the activities of the few solicitors who fail to maintain the high standards of service and honesty which we have come to expect from members of the profession, and which many people, including Members of the House, will, I am sure, readily acknowledge from personal experience.

During the debate I shall be keen to hear the views of Deputies on the many proposals contained in the Bill and I shall be open to ideas from all sides of the House that would improve the Bill. I believe this measure is ideally suited to be dealt with on Committee Stage by a Special Committee of the House and I will so propose at the end of Second Stage.

I commend the Bill to the House.

I am very aware that calls have been made for some time to introduce changes in the law relating to the solicitors' profession. While the Bill before us contains many important changes it is difficult to understand why the Government should confine reform to only one aspect of the legal environment and totally disregard the rest. The entire legal arena is badly in need of radical reform. It is fair to say that the public perceive the legal environment in which we operate to be antiquated, clumsy, inefficient and not adequately serving the public. It is only when something goes wrong that the public see the reality of the system and its failures.

The absence of a civil legal aid scheme on a statutory basis in the area of civil law excludes many individuals from pursuing a just grievance through our courts simply because of a lack of finance. In the interests of democracy, it is important that every citizen should have the right of access to our courts in order to achieve justice. Until this happens there will continue to be a lack of confidence on the part of the public in our system. I was appalled to read in a recent Sunday newspaper that the results of a survey showed that only 9 per cent of the public have absolute confidence in our courts. This should not be allowed to continue. It is the responsibility of the Government to make the necessary changes to restore public confidence in our courts.

It is not my intention to knock the legal profession as I am well aware that the vast majority of those operating our legal system are honourable, decent and upright people who do an important job on behalf of society. Solicitors are not merely members of a profession acting for private clients or private interests; they are officers of the court, they handle trust money and the property of their clients and are the repositories of the secrets of their clients. The general public interest requires from the members of that profession, both individually and as a profession, high standards of efficiency, integrity and, above all, honesty. For these reasons this Bill must not alone seek to regulate the general affairs of the solicitors' profession but must also safeguard the public interest.

Before dealing with the various sections of the Bill I should like to refer to some areas which are badly in need of urgent reform. I should like first to deal with the inefficiency of the courts system. As a layman I am often appalled to see court rooms at 10 a.m. full of solicitors, barristers, gardaí, witnesses, and so on waiting for cases to be called. It appears that there is no proper listing system and, consequently, everyone arrives at 10 a.m. resulting in an enormous waste of man hours by the legal profession and others. This must add to the overall costs which are funded by the taxpayer. Surely in this age of highly trained public servants and computer technology we could have a more simplified and efficient system.

My second point relates to the changing of barristers at the last moment. It is not unusual for a barrister to return a brief to a solicitor on very short notice. This can occur after a case has been in existence in a solicitor's office for as long as three years or more. To the clients it is the most important matter in their lives and very often they have built up a relationship with the barristers, but a different barrister may be asked to take the brief at the last moment. He or she will not know the client and the client will be grossly disillusioned by the change. Very often the client may feel insecure as a result of this change. Whatever the reasons, changes must be made to prevent this continuing. It does nothing for the image of either profession to allow it to continue.

I should like to refer to the training and appointment of judges. It is difficult for the public to understand the considerable variations in thinking between judges up to and including the High Court. Those wishing to serve as judges in our courts should undergo some training prior to appointment and guidelines should be set to determine the suitability of individuals to serve in that capacity. Judges should also have the benefit of in-service training. Many areas of law require great sensitivity in dealing with particular problems. One of these areas is family law. I do not see why a member of the solicitors' profession should not be considered for appointment to any of our courts provided, of course, that the person in question is a suitable candidate. I am told that frequently a barrister in assessing the chances of success of a case with solicitors and clients will make specific assessments depending on which judge will hear the case. If this is so ways and means should be found to prevent it continuing. I sincerely hope the Minister will take these points on board and deal with them quickly.

I should like to refer to the manner in which we deal with small claims. There is an urgent need to set up a small claims tribunal to deal with consumer problems and a small claims court to deal with petty claims and very minor offences. These courts should be informal and there should be no need to engage either a solicitor or barrister to appear on behalf of clients. Fees charged in these type of cases by the legal profession very often eliminate the amount of the award to the client. It often takes a considerable period of time for these petty claims to be settled. They also clog up the business of the District Court where they should not be heard in the first instance.

I should like to refer to the work of the Law Reform Commission. The Law Reform Commission have produced excellent reports over the past number of years but, unfortunately, many of these are gathering dust on shelves in the Department of Justice. What is the advantage of having an excellent body such as the Law Reform Commission when many of their recommendations are not followed? The Law Reform Commission are capable of producing legislation to progress their recommendations and the Government should encourage this body to publish a Bill embodying many aspects of the reports they prepare. Any changes the Government may wish to make subsequently could be introduced on Committee Stage of such a Bill. This would mean that changes in our laws would come about far quicker than through use of the present system. Many of our criminal laws are out of date and, as I suggested previously, the Government set up a criminal law reform commission to deal specifically with this area of law.

I should like to refer to conveyancing law which is dealt with in the Bill. There is a need for the introduction of a modern conveyancing Act to update the law relating to house and property transactions in order to simplify procedures and reduce costs. The truth is that the legal profession is burdened with antiquated laws created for a different generation conveying title in totally different circumstances from the type of conveyancing that is in operation at present. An example of this is the Statute of Uses which provides that if certain words are not used in a conveyance, then the purchaser will acquire a life interest when it was intended that he should receive the freehold. Surely it is time these types of changes in our ancient laws were dealt with.

Another area that causes a great deal of concern to every Member of this House, and has been raised on many occasions here, is the Land Registry. I regard the delays in the Land Registry as nothing short of appalling. It has been shown over and over again that changes in this area would not alone lead to greater efficiency but would also be self-financing. Delays in having land registered can have serious effects on our economy and can also cause a great deal of extra expense and annoyance for the individuals concerned. It is time the Minister announced changes and introduced legislation to bring them about.

I congratulate the Minister for introducing this very comprehensive Bill. It has seven parts, 75 sections and covers a wide range of issues. However, it is not my intention at this stage to deal with every part. The Minister has dealt with the Bill in detail but I should like to concentrate on some of the proposals which I feel need to be commented on. I would also mention that it is my intention on Committee Stage to table amendments to bring about improvements in this legislation. I sincerely hope the Minister will live up to his offer at the end of his Second Stage contribution and accept positive suggestions and worthwhile amendments from the Opposition benches.

Part III of this Bill is concerned with disciplinary matters and provides for the investigation of complaints about inadequate services provided and excessive fees charged by solicitors. I welcome the fact that new powers are being given to the Law Society to impose sanctions for inadequate or poor quality work. As a public representative I very often receive complaints from members of the public about the standard of work and the long delays in dealing with particular cases by some solicitors. I welcome also the fact that steps can be taken where excessive fees are being charged which are clearly unjustified. It is most important that those carrying out investigations are seen to be doing so in an independent fashion. The fact that provisions are being made in this Bill for lay representation on the disciplinary committee is welcome. Under this Part of the Bill I note there is provision for the appointment of an ombudsman. This too is a welcome development.

There is not.

An adjudicator.

I do not think we should be giving the Minister more——

The Deputy will get his chance in a minute.

Deputy Barrett, proceed with your contribution.

As I read it, there is provision under this Bill for the appointment of an ombudsman — you can call it something else if you wish. This is a very welcome development and should apply in many professions, including the insurance industry. The banks and the financial institutions have an ombudsman; the legal profession and the solicitors will have one and I think this development should be extended to many other areas. It is difficult to understand why the Minister is not extending the role of the ombudsman to deal with complaints involving barristers and officers in the courts and registries. I do not see why it should be confined solely to solicitors and I intend raising this matter on Committee Stage.

As far as the general public are concerned, Part IV of this Bill is very important as it contains proposals for the protection of clients. As I stated earlier, the general public interest requires that the solicitors profession, individually and collectively, have high standards of integrity and honesty. Strong measures must be available to deal with solicitors who attempt to behave in a dishonest fashion or who fail to provide a proper and efficient service to the client. Unfortunately, the solicitors profession, as in many other professions, has some members who abuse the trust placed in them. That is why the provisions in this Part of the Bill are necessary.

A compensation fund is essential and I am pleased that this Bill requires the society to maintain a fund of £1 million after deducting outstanding liabilities. I note from comments made by the Law Society that they are seeking to have a cap placed on claims made under the compensation fund so that the maximum paid in any one claim would be £250,000. I ask the Minister when replying to comment on this proposal, particularly in view of the fact that other professions, such as stockbrokers and auctioneers, do not have an open-ended liability.

I welcome the provision for the introduction of professional indemnity insurance in respect of claims of negligence on the part of solicitors or those in their employment, and I sincerely hope it will be compulsory for solicitors to carry this indemnity insurance. This can only be to the benefit of the public because it is essential that they be protected in this way.

Part V of the Bill deals with educational requirements for apprenticeship and for qualifying for admission as a solicitor. There is a feeling abroad that entry to the legal profession is controlled, thus leading to a closed shop mentality. It is difficult to understand why an individual who has attained legal qualifications and a certain level of competence cannot be allowed to practice as either a solicitor or a barrister. The required standards of the Law Society and the Bar Counsel should allow those who are qualified in law to practice in either area of the law. If this were done, market forces would dictate who would do what and we could avoid the necessity for controlling fees, etc. Similarly those qualified in law should be entitled to be considered for appointment to the Bench, whether they come from the solicitor profession or the barrister profession. I would welcome the Minister's comments on these important points when he is replying to Second Stage.

Part VII of the Bill contains miscellaneous provisions. This Part deals with a number of very important matters, for example, solicitors' fees. Regular comments are made regarding the level of fees charged by solicitors for various services provided. From the consumers' point of view, it is important that competition should result in the consumer getting the best service at the cheapest cost, but it is important that the consumer is also protected from false advertising because what appears to be cheap at the outset can very often turn out to be very expensive in the long term. Maintaining a scale of fees to be charged for different services is a thing of the past and should be discontinued. Market forces should dictate fees charged by individual solicitors for different types of services.

I am not happy that fee advertising would benefit the consumer in the long term. I have come across cases where a solicitor offered a bargain fee for conveyancing but the client ended up on bridging finance for a long period simply because the level of service provided was very poor. I am not convinced that the cheapest is always the best. The Minister must ensure, in the public interest, that this proposal to allow fee advertising does not result in a lowering of professional standards to the detriment of the public.

We have seen in other countries the spectacle of what is known as "ambulance chasing", where members of the legal profession encourage individuals to pursue what are very often very dubious legal actions based on a "no foal, no fee" basis. I welcome the provision which prohibits the charging of fees by reference to a percentage of the damages awarded to a client. I intend pursuing that whole issue of fee advertising on Committee Stage and I look forward to a positive and constructive debate at that stage.

On a minor matter in relation to Part VII of the Bill, I respectfully suggest that it is time to abolish compulsory Irish and that the Law Society should be required to retain a panel of solicitors competent to conduct legal business in Irish. If this was done the requirement of those seeking to conduct their business in Irish would be satisfied. The element of compulsion disappeared some time ago and we should remove it in this instance also.

I do not understand why banks and trust corporations should be allowed to do probate work under this legislation. About 70 per cent of wills not made by solicitors end up in court. That is not in the best interests of the consumer. There is a recent trend in legislation to allow outside groups engage in business in which they do not normally engage. I refer here to the banks, and I disclose a personal interest in that I am involved as an insurance broker. People will have to accept that while my comments are being made in all sincerity they could be coloured by my involvement in insurance. The banks were given power to engage in the insurance business in the hope that they would provide a better service to the public, a wider choice and so on.

I have come across abuses by the banks in conducting their insurance business. Counter staff are being set targets to sell insurance and when the bank doors close at 3 p.m. staff are being asked to contact clients of the banks in order to sell insurance. Bank managers have been reported to the Insurance Brokers Association for interfering with direct debits. When they see a direct debit for insurance from a different company they have often contacted the client and asked for a chance to quote for insurance. This is an abuse of information.

There has not been a reduction in costs to the public as a result of the banks engaging in insurance business. Bank charges have not been reduced nor have interest rates been reduced. Why then would those charges be reduced when the bank is running an insurance business from banking costs, from a branch office and the unfortunate individual has to carry all those costs? It is bad enough that they are engaging in insurance business but they now will engage in probate work where again vital confidential information on clients will be now made available to the banks. I am not at all happy that this is a correct move forward.

It is important that a person's private secrets can be communicated to a professional and that standards will be followed. In this Bill we are giving additional powers to the Law Society to ensure that people maintain certain standards and, if they do not, penalties can be imposed. Who will impose penalties on a bank manager or on whoever will conduct the probate work? I am not happy with this trendy concept of opening up things, weakening the professions and letting more people work in areas where heretofore only professionals worked. I am not happy that that is in the interests of the consumer. There are horses for courses. People are trained to think in a certain way, to do something well and they are expected to do it well. If there are abuses or monopolies in certain professions I would not support that but it is not wise to encourage someone to get a carpenter when he really needs a plumber.

As legislators we should ensure that the consumer gets the best service at the cheapest price. The consumer's interest and the public interest must be protected. Banks seem to be empowered to engage in many activities but before we ask them to take on more work, they should concentrate on doing better what they are supposed to do. Then we can think about allowing them to do other work.

I am not convinced that in the area of probate work it is appropriate that clients of a bank could be persuaded to make their wills with the bank. If the Minister intends allowing banks and trust corporations to engage in probate work he should provide legislative safeguards to ensure that the work will be done by legally qualified persons and that there will be arrangements for compensation to cover dishonesty, professional indemnity insurance to cover negligence and rules which would prevent conflict of interest. I do not understand why the banks and trust corporations are being singled out in this way. I hope the Minister on Committee Stage will explain why this is being done.

With regard to conveyancing I do not make any apology for saying that I do not understand why the Minister feels that banks should now be empowered to provide conveyancing services. If we intend maintaining a solicitors' profession, which I support, the more services we allow to be carried out by others the greater the chance that the remaining services provided by solicitors will be carried out at a much higher cost to the consumer. Maybe this is the direction we should be taking, but it deserves a lot more debate before a final decision is taken. Conveyancing is an area of work that should be reserved for properly trained persons. Can the Minister guarantee that such a professional service will be provided by banks or any other person he wishes to allow do this type of work? It is not my intention to support a closed shop approach, but before agreeing to radical changes of this nature, I wish to be satisfied that the consumer will get a better service at a cheaper cost by such changes.

The Minister can argue that building societies were empowered to do conveyancing under the Building Societies Act. That may be so, but I am not saying that was wise. I have seen some practices on the part of building societies that I certainly would not think were in the public interest. When they were relieved of their power to force people to take out their insurance with them we saw what happened. They suddenly introduced a reading fee. The unfortunate borrower who wished to take out insurance in the normal way with their own insurance broker who presented the policy to the building society and who was not going to be blackmailed into taking out insurance with a company the building society had their arrangements with — getting higher commission than most brokers because of the volume of business — found himself having to pay a reading fee for the building society to read the policy to satisfy themselves that it came up to their standards and their requirements. What nonsense. It is only another way of extracting money from people.

I do not want to see every Tom, Dick and Harry being able to do conveyancing and probate work. They might be seen to be doing it at a cheaper cost but if, at the end of the day, I am left on bridging finance for six months and end up paying interest that I should never have had to pay simply because of gross inefficiency on the part of whoever is doing the work, I might have no come back. At least in this Bill we are giving the Law Society the power to deal with people who do not do their business in a proper and honest fashion. If this work is spread out to other people, will the same standards apply? It is our job as legislators, before making radical changes like this, to be sure that it is in the public interest, that it will be in the interests of the consumer.

Let me repeat what I said at the outset. This legislation is very important. I have posed some questions which I hope the Minister will address. I admit that some of the points I made did not relate directly to the Solicitors Bill as it is before us. However it is quite legitimate for an Opposition, when presented with legislation, to query why an opportunity like this is not used to deal in a comprehensive way with more matters than are in the Bill.

There is not much in this Bill that most Members of the House could honestly disagree with but there are some changes I would like to see in the whole area of probate and conveyancing work. Those are fundamental issues that have to be dealt with. I would expect that there will be differences of opinion in this regard. However before we make changes we need to be convinced that they are in the interests of the public. It is a shame that when we get an opportunity, which we get so seldom, to deal with legislation in this area, we are not getting the opportunity to make many other changes that are necessary to provide the type of service the public we represent require.

We are regulating the solicitors profession, but there are many other areas to be dealt with. Even if we got the solicitors acting in a totally honest manner with total efficiency etc., as long as we have a courts system that is perceived by the public to be inefficient we are not providing a good service. When laymen go down to the courts the place is full; nobody seems to know when a case will come up; they are wandering around, waiting for hours and the whole system seems to be geared towards keeping a judge busy. Not being a member of the legal profession, I think that is a load of nonsense. Whatever about a judge not being busy for half the day if there are hundreds of others wasting man hours at a cost to the public, that is a total waste. Surely it should be the other way around. Surely the system should operate in an efficient manner. If the judge has an hour or two off in the course of the day because cases were settled out of court that he thought he was going to hear, so be it. If a person does not settle within a fortnight of a hearing and subsequently settles ten minutes before the case is due in court there should be a fine imposed. That would build up a practice of making certain that cases are dealt with out of court without affecting the list system. As long as we tolerate the sort of chaos witnessed every day in the courts, with people hanging around, including professional witnesses, at enormous cost to the insurance companies, which ultimately falls back on the insured persons, the public will not have confidence in our courts.

Tied into this whole question is the solicitors' profession, the barristers, the relationship between barristers and solicitors, the question of whether people should be able to move from one profession to the other without having to go through a whole rigmarole to do so. There is also the question of who sits on the bench, the type of persons they are, the type of training they have had, their consistency in sentencing, in awarding damages and so on. The public want to see all these matters dealt with but as things are at the moment they are confused. They cannot understand what is going on. That is why only 9 per cent showed absolute confidence in our courts according to the recent survey carried out. That is a very dangerous trend and should not be allowed continue.

There is a need for radical reform and just reforming the solicitors profession or introducing changes in it will not solve the problem because that area is only part of a very big problem. I would like to see the solicitors profession continue but as an efficient profession that everybody can be proud of, a profession in which those engaged would be proud of what they were doing so that they would not have to keep looking over their shoulders knowing that there was a watchdog in the form of a Bill that has the teeth and the power to deal with them if they step out of line. At the end of the day it is important to the whole system that we get this legislation right.

Maybe in reply to the Second Stage the Minister will have proposals to deal with the other aspects I spoke about. If he has I would be delighted to hear them and I would certainly support changes in the areas I have mentioned.

Acting Chairman

In the absence of Deputy Michael Bell who was to have been the next speaker, I call on Deputy Pat McCartan.

I am pleased and honoured to have an opportunity to make a comment on this most important piece of legislation. I say that primarily as a Member of this House as spokesperson for The Workers' Party but also as someone who has been an active member of the legal profession as a solicitor for some time.

The Bill has been described by the Minister in his opening speech as a product of many years work in his Department. He also admits that new legislation relating to solicitors occurs relatively rarely; in fact he might have gone on to point out also that in regard to the other arm of the legal profession, the barristers, it never occurs. For both these reasons the legislation is a great disappointment. Apart from the one area of discipline, the Bill provides little by way of substantial reform. Huge issues and opportunities have been missed at a time of rising and unmet legal needs. This is due to poor legal services being provided by the Minister on behalf of the Government, to an antiquated Court structure imposed and imported from the era when we were a dominion colony of the British Empire and which has changed little since then, and from our having a two-arm profession which is both costly and unnecessary. The Minister, therefore, has missed huge opportunities to address major gaps in the service generally. Even in areas where he has attempted to take action, apart from the area of discipline and policing, he has made mistakes he will regret for some time to come. For example, he has copped out entirely on the question of appointing an ombudsman in this area.

I was surprised to hear the previous speaker in his contribution welcome the appointment of an ombudsman because such an appointment is not contemplated under the legislation. What is contemplated is that the Minister will have a permissive power to introduce regulations under which he will be allowed to appoint a creature to be known as an adjudicator to comment on, make findings and observations on an investigation carried out by the Law Society into their own procedures. That is far removed from the concept of an ombudsman who, according to the meaning of the Swedish word, is someone who represents someone. What we will be getting is a statutory commentator or observer, certainly not someone who will have any serious powers of investigation. I will deal with that matter in more detail later.

In addition, the Minister has neglected the central issue of fusing the two arms of the profession into one singular, efficient and cost effective service. In relation to legal education he has fallen again for the long established ploy of the profession who have suggested to him that they are engaged in discussions and negotiations which will lead to an advancement, if not unifiction, in this area.

In regard to the compulsory requirement on the Irish language, which is both anachronistic and ineffective and to which the Law Society only pay lip service, as the Minister well knows, he has allowed this anachronism to remain in place.

Before I deal with the substance of the Bill, I should like to correct the record on one issue. At Question Time in the House on 26 November the Minister made a gratuitous remark which was both unnecessary and inaccurate. He said that I had in some way sought to delay or avoid a debate on this Bill. In response to a question I had put to him in an effort to get some detail in regard to legislation relating to extradition the Minister said, as reported at column 821 of the Official Report:

With regard to my attendance in the House, I find it extraordinary that the Deputy should take this attitude, having spent six months, practically every morning, asking for a solicitor's Bill to be taken, and now that it has been published for about a month, finds it inconvenient to take it every week.

In the crossfire I attempted to correct that when I said "I have no difficulty in taking it" to which the Minister responded, "that is not what is happening, and the Deputy knows it". I then pointed out that the matter rested with the Government Whip.

It is true that when the Minister for Justice approached me in the corridor outside the Chamber to inquire as to what my views on the legislation were we had an informal discussion on it. In the course of that discussion I pointed out to him that the Law Society were anxious to be given the opportunity to meet representatives of the parties in the House to make their views on the legislation known. In his contribution the Minister acknowledged the co-operation he received from that society in preparing the legislation. Indeed, they established a committee of the council to deal with it. It was not, therefore, unreasonable for them to ask that they be given an opportunity to meet with representatives of the parties to make their views known to them on legislation which will directly affect their operations and organisation.

As the Minister said in his speech, it took a long time to prepare the legislation which was published on 23 October this year. I indicated to the Minister in the course of our casual conversation that the society were due to come to the House the following week and that it was hoped the debate on the Bill would not begin until we had an opportunity to meet with them. That was as much as I said to the Minister for Justice. I conveyed this view, as I understand did the Whip of another party, to the Government Chief Whip on the scheduling of the Bill. On the one occasion the Government Chief Whip proposed that the debate on the Bill be scheduled for today I immediately agreed. I do not know the reason the Minister made that remark in the House; he may want to correct it. That is a matter, ultimately, for the Minister. All I want to do is put the record straight and not leave on the record a suggestion that I was shilly-shallying or shying away from a discussion on legislation which is virtually second nature to me.

The Minister has announced that a Special Committee will be established to deal with Committee Stage of the Bill. That is a good decision and it should be welcomed. I hope all groups in the House will have an opportunity to sit on the special committee and contribute. I also hope that the proposed reforms contained in the new joint Programme for Government, agreed between the two parties in Government, will be in place before the Special Committee begin their deliberations. It is important that this Special Committee, once established, will be workable and efficient.

It is also important that the officials of the Department should be allowed to make contributions, answer queries and make suggestions on the legislation at the Special Committee. I am aware that the Acting Chairman contributed long and hard at the Special Committee on the Child Care Bill. Within the confines of the room when a committee are working hard on legislation if a question is raised the Minister must consult with the officials sitting directly behind him and convey the answer to the committee. I see no reason why the officials who constructed the legislation and who will be responsible for implementing its provisions subsequently cannot be allowed to contribute directly without voting or in any way influencing the decisions of the Special Committee.

It is important that interested groups should be permitted to attend and make submissions to the Special Committee, when sitting. This is a very pertinent point given that we are aware that the Law Society have had an intimate working relationship with the Department in drafting the legislation. There is no reason why they should not be present to make a submission to the Special Committee and answer questions raised by Deputies who are concerned and worried about the way sections are constructed or the impact they will have when they are eventually put into operation.

I hope the Minister will bear those points in mind. They are provided for in the general outline of the proposals contained in the new joint Programme for Government. It would be of assistance if those proposals were brought forward without delay and the Special Committee established under the new regime of a democratic and more efficient Dáil operation.

The Workers' Party will not approach this legislation from the narrow standpoint of the profession to see how it will be served by it but from the broader viewpoint of the public and consumer. That is evident from the Minister's contribution. I do not accept however that the Minister has gone as far as he could have in protecting the interests of the consumer but at least we agree on a similar approach. In discussing the terms of the Bill we should consider how the service will be delivered and how the legislation will serve the customer, consumer and the citizen.

I should like to quote from the report of the Fair Trade Commission which was published a short time ago, in March 1990, in deference to the monumental work carried out by them when they studied restrictive practices in the legal profession, although it should be said that the Minister had little regard to this report in drafting the legislation. In their report the commission said:

The Commission considers that there is a fundamental requirement that the public should have available an adequate supply of legal services, of sufficient quality, with a wide degree of choice among practitioners, and delivered efficiently at a reasonable price. It accepts also that it is in the public interest that the suppliers of legal services should maintain a high standard of competence, conduct, integrity and independence, for the protection of consumers.

That is a very good, useful and succinct fundamental statement of our concerns in dealing with legislation in the area of legal services and the legal profession generally. It reflects the working principle on which The Workers' Party will approach this legislation. However, we must ask how the Bill addresses this fundamental proposition.

It is also important to put on the record that The Workers' Party have a very high regard for the solicitors' profession. It is long established and has worked very well; the majority of its members are well intentioned and provide a very competent professional service for the public. It must also be acknowledged that it is singularly the most policed profession in the country; the Minister made a reference to this being grounded in tradition but did not give a serious analysis of the reason, apart from referring to the fact that solicitors have within their authority the power to look after or control resources, moneys and property of their clients. However, that can be said of every other profession in the financial area; banks, banking institutions, accountants and so on can be on a par with solicitors in that regard and indeed the physical well-being of an individaul is reposited in the medical profession.

Is there inconsistency on the part of the Government with regard to the concept of policing professionals in the course of their duty? It is a good principle to have democratic controls and accountability but I must advise the Minister and the Government that there is a very grave sense of injustice felt by solicitors not so much on the basis that they are policed and controlled, but because they are singled out for having this very onerous regime imposed on them and which will be extended under this legislation. The Government should look at other professions who have as much control over the rights and interests of individuals and who are not subjected to the accountability, responsibilities and controls included in this legislation, for example, the very substantial compensation fund and the overall powers of the High Court to impose draconian sanctions in justifiable cases. Why does that not apply to other professions?

The attitude of the legal profession generally — and of solicitors in particular — is that it is a private profession which has never seen its function as providing a social need of equal access and ease of hearing for all citizens. Legal aid and the legal aid services have arisen from the inability of people to provide or find an adequate service in the private profession. The Airey judgment of the European Court clearly identified that the delivery of legal aid services and support to the poor in a community is the responsibility of the State.

The Irish Government, in resonse to the Airey judgment, established the Pringle Commission on Legal Services which reported nearly 12 years ago on the need for setting up a comprehensive system of legal aid, providing not just for the delivery of a service but for education and supporting people in having access to the courts. The commission at the time recommended that an interim service should be provided before the comprehensive system was established providing for legal services throughout the country, including all major provincial towns. The Minister of the day acted on the interim service and we have been living with the fruits of the interim service ever since.

In the area of the legal profession generally — in particular solicitors — and the delivery of the service to the consumer in that context, the Government have not yet fully complied with the findings of the European Court in the context of the Josie Airey case. The Government — and previous Governments — have relied on a stop-gap interim system which is totally inadequate. The inadequate service has been subjected to previous criticisms and it led to the resignation of the chairman of the Legal Aid Board last year in protest at the way successive Governments have failed to seriously address this aspect of legal services generally, the provision of a service for those who cannot afford it or find it in the private profession of solicitors and barristers. In the wake of the resignation of the then chairman, Mr. Fennelly, the Minister had the opportunity to nominate a chairman, Mr. Landy. If one looks at the reports of the Legal Aid Board signed by Mr. Landy, published recently, for the years 1987, 1988 and 1989, the Minister must be dismayed to note — but cannot be surprised — that the criticisms continued unabated.

The chairman said, by way of foreword on page 3:

The Minister for Justice has recently informed the board that he is making the necessary funding available to the board to enable it to establish three additional one centre law centres in 1991. While this is a welcome step, much still remains to be done and I will continue to press for the resources required to provide a comprehensive legal aid service. The Minister has recently assured me that work on a draft statute is nearing completion in his Department for the establishment of legal services on a statutory basis. We have, however, been told that many times before. The present spread of law centres is inadequate with large areas of the country not having a full-time law centre. I am disappointed that in many instances the availability of legal services under the scheme has become a test of perseverance rather than a test of eligibility with applicants, often in very distressing circumstances, having to wait long periods for even an initial appointment with a solicitor.

We cannot lose sight of the fact that legal aid and legal services arise directly from the legal needs of people in the community not being met by solicitors, barristers and the legal profession generally. Therefore, when one drafts legislation to improve the delivery of the service to the consumer, to which the Minister referred, he cannot but be reminded — and it is the duty of every spokesperson on legal affairs in the House to remind him — that there is a vast area of the consumer public who cannot and will never have the opportunity of getting any kind of legal service because the Government have failed to honour their commitments under the Airey judgment and the provisions of the European Court on Human Rights.

The situation was highlighted yet again by the Law Society in their review of the performance of the legal aid services. The report was sent to the Minister in November and it is worth noting some of its basic recommendations for which the Minister has failed to provide in any meaningful way in the legislation before the House.

They made the point that the number of legal aid centres must be increased and that there should be at least one centre in every principal county town in the country. They go on to say that private practitioners should also be involved in the scheme in dealing with adjournments and providing replacements for the Legal Aid Board solicitors who are absent. That is a very simple proposition which has been advocated by the Legal Aid Board and by people directly concerned with the service over the years. Where there are major gaps geographically and logistically in the service provided, solicitors should be brought in from the private sector on contract to fill these vacancies. However, there is nothing in the Bill before us today to deal with that small item. There is an urgent need to involve the private practitioner in the extension of the service so that a comprehensive service is provided to the public without delay.

The Minister, in his introductory speech, referred time and again to the report of the Fair Trade Commission on the legal profession. It is fair to suggest that publication of the Bill in October of this year was delayed for 12 to 18 months while this report was being finalised, presented to the Government and considered. It is therefore regrettable that major parts of the report have been totally ignored by the Minister in drafting the final legislation. These include issues such as fusion of the profession, statutory regulation of barristers, judicial appointments and support services to be given to judges once appointed, and the general area of legal education, access to it, the need for a single service, the need to modify and improve the conditions of apprenticeship and the extension of third level education grants to students attending legal education courses.

This report is a unique and comprehensive document. It represents the first analysis of the legal services in Ireland from the point of view of fair trade and of eliminating from the legal profession many of the anachronisms, rules and devices drafted by the profession to suit their purposes as opposed to improving on the service delivered to the consumer. Therefore, it is a particularly valuable document. The report was presented to the Minister for Industry and Commerce, who is a lawyer, even though it deals with an area that is fully within the remit of the Department of Justice, namely, the legal profession. There appears to have been a disagreement by two Ministers as to who should have responsibility for the report and who should act on its recommendations. There was an unnecessary delay in publication of the Bill while it was being considered. It appears that my predictions were correct, that the Minister for Industry and Commerce had more influence with regard to the recommendations of the report than has been admitted. As I have said before in the House, while that Minister is a vocal advocate for reform and is often critical of the structures of the legal profession he has yet to introduce legislation or promote an idea to further his views in this area.

When I was a student in 1972 I remember Deputy O'Malley, as Minister for Justice, making what was then considered a remarkable speech outside the House, stating that the fusion of the legal profession was an inevitable consequence in the streamlining and development of an efficient and modern service in this country. That was almost 20 years ago and nothing has happened since in that respect. What is particularly sad is that this Bill avoids the issue entirely.

The issue of fusion of the profession is the single most important and urgent matter in the development of a modern, efficient and cost effective profession. The existence of a two-arm profession — the suggestion has been made of the enhancement of the position of the legal executive, which could be regarded as a third arm — is entirely confusing to the consumer. The diversity of responsibilities between solicitors and barristers is a haven for incompetence. It provides ease of buck passing, and is the most often used device to pass responsibility for one arm of the profession to the other when queries are raised by the consumer with regard to the service delivered. Because there are two arms of the profession the service proves to be more costly and certainly more confusing. The profession is too small for such a division to be maintained. There should be one profession with a pool of resources available to it to enable it to provide an efficient and cost effective service. Ours is much too small a country to maintain two professions.

The Minister talked about protecting the taxpayer, but all costs with regard to maintenance of the profession fall to the consumer. It is the taxpayer or consumer who is currently maintaining a divided, profession that is cumbersome and unnecessary. Fusion of the two professions would lead to a more open and accountable profession particularly because, as I have illustrated, solicitors are the most heavily policed and disciplined profession in the community, and fusion would inevitably bring barristers under a similar regime. It is a scandal that barristers have never been made accountable to any independent structure as solicitors have been since the foundation of the State. Such fusion would also lead to the establishment of the barristers' profession on a statutory basis as is recommended so strongly by the Fair Trade Commission. That commission fail to understand why what is inevitable and necessary for one arm of the profession — namely, the solicitors — has never been contemplated for the other arm. The reason I advocate fusion so strongly and have done so in this House so often is not because I am a member of the solicitors' profession but because I believe that the Bar is one of, if not the most, conservative collection of workers in the country. They are organised on a club basis, lodged in one location at the Bar Library. Voices of independence and radicalism are quickly stifled and drawn into line.

It is no accident that the main conservative parties in the country are heavily supported by barristers and they are to be seen to the fore in each of those parties. This conservatism which is prevalent throughout the barristers' profession leads to conservative law and absence of challenge and independence. That is the central problem with maintaining the barristers' profession independent of and without fusion with solicitors. Their innate, conservative existence leads to the development and advancement of a very conservative attitude to law, a law which lacks challenge or independence.

It is this independence that is used as the one real asset of the Bar and as the reason it should be allowed continue under its existing structures. It is, we are told, representative of a bulwark against administrative oppression. There is no real security from the libertarian to be found anywhere in the Bar. Ironically, it is those with some modicum of independence who argue this point the strongest. The club structure is inward looking in every respect. What other factor gives rise to the Bar adhering to ancient traditions of meal eating as a means of admission to their practice or of the wearing of wig and gowns to everyday work? The Bar has proclaimed itself as an institution that never intends and is never willing to change. It is remarkable that no Government and no Minister has ever challenged its existence. It is clear that that profession is intertwined with the political structures of the day and is in no way independent.

It is for these reasons I believe the continued existence of the Bar is not in the interests of the overall delivery of a comprehensive legal service to the consumer. The two arms of the profession should be fused into one efficient outward looking modern body, thus providing a cost effective service for the public at large. I have to acknowledge that the Fair Trade Commission do not emphatically call for the fusion of the professions as I do, but they note in their report that there is a great deal of merit in a gradual move towards such a fusion. They do not see merit in the argument against fusing the professions from the viewpoint of delivery of a service. The Fair Trade Commission conclude at page 313 of their report:

At the same time, the Commission does not consider that it would be unfair or contrary to the common good if there were to be a single, fused profession. Indeed, it believes that a fused profession might, without being a cause of concern, evolve gradually over time. In its view, nothing should be done to frustrate such a development.

By totally ignoring and failing to address this issue, the Bill has put a major obstacle in the way of a gradual move towards fusion. As the Minister has rightly pointed out, it is the rare occasion on which we come to deliberate on legislation in this area. It will be a long time before we return to it again.

In the wake of the Fair Trade Commission report, the Bar have issued an ultimatum that should Government dare address any of the issues affecting their independent existence and cosy relationship in the Bar Library, they will revolt against Government. It is quite clear that Government have run scared of the Bar yet again.

The Deputy has a vivid imagination but I will have an opportunity later to reply to him in detail.

Acting Chairman

The Minister will have an opportunity to reply.

Deputy Andrews, you have fierce powers.

I have no doubt that the Minister will be able to point out anything in the Bill that supports or suggests he is addressing any of the issues raised in the Fair Trade Commission report.

I am dismayed by the Minister's failure to appoint an ombudsman to deal with the affairs of this important institution. Members of the public have campaigned long and hard for an ombudsman to deal with legal matters. Section 15 provides for a system of independent adjudication. Section 15 (1) states the Minister "may" appoint an adjudicator and on Committee Stage I will be seeking to make this obligatory so that the Minister "shall" appoint such a person. The section provides for an independent adjudicator to examine and investigate written allegations or complaints made by or on behalf of a member of the public. The Minister has talked time and again about the practice in England, Scotland and Wales, but before they appointed a legal ombudsman, complaints were dealt with by a lay assessor. I do not know where the Minister got the concept of an independent adjudicator but as he has borrowed so much else from English practice, I am surprised he did not draw on the concept of a lay assessor.

Section 15 (1) provides that:

The Minister may, by regulations, require the Society to establish, maintain and fund a scheme for the examination and investigation by an independent adjudicator of any written allegations or complaint made by or on behalf of a member of the public against the Society, concerning the handling by the Society of a complaint made to it by any person about a solicitor.

The function of the adjudicator is simply to look at the way the Law Society have handled a complaint from a member of the public. The adjudicator has no power or authority to investigate complaints or pursue an issue as far as the solicitor's office or elsewhere or to make representations to the Law Society directly on behalf of a client. The functions of the adjudicator are to watch, sit in on and make representations about the overall conduct of matters generally. That is far removed from the functions of the Ombudsman, as I understand it.

If the Minister is not prepared to change the terms of reference of this minuscule office of adjudicator, I urge him at least to change the name from adjudicator to ombudsman. Everybody believes this appointee should carry out the functions of an ombudsman. We have been living with the office of Ombudsman and everybody knows what an ombudsman is and the public respect and admire the office of Ombudsman. Anything less will do a disservice to the job expected of the person appointed under section 15.

The Minister should have extended the existing remit of the Ombudsman to include legal affairs and the legal profession but consequent on that it would have been necessary to increase the powers and the resources available to the Ombudsman. The Ombudsman has been working under difficult conditions, nonetheless he has provided a very valuable and highly respected service and clearly his office is the most suitable vehicle to investigate the area. There is no reason the services of the Ombudsman should not have been extended to cover the legal profession. This would have provided a simple, convenient administrative way of addressing this as the body of expertise is already in place. Many of them who are lawyers——

That is the problem, they are lawyers.

Some are but not all. The Ombudsman is not a lawyer.

——at present.

The adjudicator is supposed to be an independent person but is it possible that independence rests in an office designed to adjudicate on matters of the Law Society which at the same time they have to fund? The Minister says the reason for this is that the Law Society have failed to adequately police themselves and to maintain adequate standards. I accept that as a reason for introducing an office of Ombudsman, but I am concerned that the Law Society should pay the piper. I do not believe this will lead to the exercise of independence. In any event, the cost of providing the services of an adjudicator, while carried initially by the profession will be simply passed on as a cost to the consumer, the taxpayer, in increased fees. That is inevitable and it happens in every area of service.

Overheads and charges go up, costs increase and the cost to the consumer increases. The charge of the ombudsman, although it may be carried by the society, will be passed on to the solicitors in an increased contribution to the registration fee and that will in time be passed down the line to the consumer who goes through the solicitor's door as a client. Therefore, the argument that the taxpayer is being protected does not stand up.

I urge the Minister to think again. If the desire is to have a seriously independent office operating in that regard then the office should be assured of independence in the full sense and its funding should come from a source outside of the organisation that it is to police. That is not simply an attempt to save costs to the society or the profession. The Minister has pointed out that overall cost of maintenance of the office will not be onerous or excessive. Therefore, the funding of the office should not come from the society.

It is a great pity that the opportunity to appoint an ombudsman is being missed and that in place of an ombudsman there will be a lesser creature, known as an adjudicator. The function I envisaged for an ombudsman would not have been confined to the solicitors' profession but would have included responsibility to deal with legal services generally. The ombudsman would have had the power, authority and responsibility to examine all aspects of legal services, not just services dealt with by solicitors but also those dealt with by barristers. The ombudsman would deal with issues that would arise in the course of the administration of justice and the way the listing system, which has been refered to, and other systems operated by the courts in the administration of justice were dealt with. The ombudsman would have the authority to make recommendations and present them to the societies, the Bar, the Chief Justice, the President of the High Court and the Minister to be acted upon. Those authorities and bodies would have responsibility to take on board what was suggested.

I always understood the office of ombudsman to be an office that would take on individual causes and complaints and pursue them to a satisfactory end. That is not what is proposed in section 15. I had thought that the office to be set up would have the authority to make recommendations and insist that actions be taken and systems be changed to improve the system. Again, that is not envisaged in the Bill. For those reasons, the Minister has copped out and has, in fact, misled the House and the public when he said he was bowing to the pressures and demands for the establishment of an ombudsman when he is doing something entirely different.

The Workers' Party are by and large, happy with the provisions in relation to the discipline and policing of the profession. The measures providing for different systems, and in particular the extension of what amounts to misconduct, are to be welcomed. How often in the past did those of us who tried to pursue with the Law Society the interests of an aggrieved client get in response a standard letter stating that while what has been complained of amounted to shoddy or non-professional practice and while it might have been negligent — which was a matter for another tribunal or court — it did not amount to misconduct in the concept of the Society and, therefore, the Society had no responsibility and nothing could be done? The frequency with which such standard letters was issued, in some of the most remarkable circumstances, has inevitably led to the law being amended in the way suggested by the Minister in the Bill. That change is to be welcomed.

The inclusion in the concept of misconduct of the overcharging of fees to clients is particularly welcome. I am sure other Deputies will give specific illustrations of the many times we hear of the highway robbery — that is the only way I could describe the practice — carried out by some solicitors on their clients. Solicitors have used devices such as the percentage fee charged on top of the collection of fees from the losing party in an action. They introduced a demand for the payment of a top-up percentage fee on the day that a client went to the office to collect his or her compensation cheque, resulting in clients facing the proapect of a compensation cheque not being handed over unless agreement was reached. Another device used has been that of solicitors' retaining a client's cheque and handing out their own cheque for a lower amount, allowing for the virtual robbery out of clients' pockets of their hard-earned and awarded moneys. A provision should have been included in the Bill stating that the cheque sent by a losing party — whether that party be an insurance company, an individual or some other organisation — should be physically handed over and delivered up to the client.

Hear, hear.

The practice of lodging such cheques into a solicitors' account and keeping them on deposit within the solicitors' firm for a period, which may run into some weeks if not months, to be later delivered over without reference to the amount of interest earned is grossly unfair and represents dishonesty. That matter should be addressed.

I welcome the Minister's decision to outlaw — a word I use advisedly — the use of the percentage fee system. The concept used is 10 per cent but, unfortunately, 20 per cent, 25 per cent and higher percentages, we do not hear about, because people simply do not know how to complain, were used. Indeed, if such complaints were made, the answer of the Law Society to date has been that the matter was regrettable but did not amount to misconduct in their concept and that there was, therefore, nothing they could do. The Law Society would refer an aggrieved party to the Taxing Master and, again, substantial fees would be required to pursue the matter. What has happened time and again is that clients, often under pressure because they had borrowed on the strength of an upcoming settlement, took the cheque, slammed the solicitor's door but did nothing else in their anger over what had occurred.

Many such practices are being addressed and will be stamped out by the absolute ban on the percentage charge fee and the power and, more important, the responsibility of the Law Society to treat over-charging in such circumstances as amounting to misconduct.

The Bill should provide a maximum time limit that a settlement cheque may be retained in a solicitor's office before being handed over at the request of the client. Any undue delay in that regard should amount to an act of misconduct and should be inquired into.

I welcome the Minister's decision to appoint lay members to the disciplinary committee. However, I am concerned about the way it is intended to appoint those members. In effect, the Minister will nominate his own to that committee and no person should be appointed to the committee in that way. There are well-established organisations and associations within the community who should have the power to nominate their representatives to the disciplinary committee. In that regard I am thinking particularly of the Consumers Association and other consumer organisations, of bodies acting in the interests of clients of the legal profession and of institutions such as trade unions and the Federated Union of Employers, representing business and professionals. Through that mechanism I will be proposing, on Committee Stage, that people be appointed as lay members to that committee.

I welcome also the mandatory insurance provision in this Bill. Indeed, it is something that should be required of every person working in a professional area, holding themselves out as persons with professional expertise — no matter what the area — that they have this expertise but are also supported by a reasonable policy of indemnity insurance to hedge themselves against misconduct or failure to act properly on behalf of their clients.

I welcome the other provisions in this general area of the powers of the Law Society to intervene at early and advanced stages with regard to practices and their conduct, with regard to the right to investigate bank accounts and also the right to insist that moneys be laid on deposit where necessary.

The provision with regard to the three year minimum qualification period before a person can set up practice is a very good one and has been long overdue. It is coupled with the saving clause that the Law Society, in certain circumstances, can consent — and there are circumstances in which it would be prudent and proper — that a person be allowed establish practice where they have not been qualified for three years or more. It is proper that the Law Society have the power to do that.

I am happy also that the Minister is addressing the position and status of a person to be re-employed in the legal profession in any capacity having been once struck off the roll for misconduct. Heretofore the practice that a solicitor struck off the roll could delegate a junior assistant to run the office while in reality he or she operated the practice behind that facade was completely objectionable and unacceptable. The direct employment of people in a legal profession or practice, where they have been struck off the roll on issues of dishonesty, begs the question in regard to the legislation.

In the particular area in which I practise it is and has been a source of gross annoyance to me that where, in the past, the President of the High Court has struck solicitors off the roll for misconduct or professional malpractice, nonetheless he has entitled them to limited practice as solicitors in the criminal legal aid area. That has always reflected on that area of practice as suggesting that it is an area requiring lower standards and less vigilance on the part of the professional; while a solicitor is not capable and competent to deal with the money and accounts of a client, nonetheless he or she is regarded as competent to deal with the liberty and rights of the individual. I could never understand that line of thinking and reasoning. Indeed, it is offensive to those who practise in the legal aid area, in particular the criminal legal aid area, to see solicitors fired from the profession because of their lack of competence — or more particularly because of dishonesty — being given permission to come before the law courts and the other criminal courts to practise as criminal legal aid solicitors, as has happened on occasions in the past. I am glad to note that this issue is being addressed, at least in part, in the Bill. I intend to table amendments to it on Committee Stage.

In this general area it is about time that the issue of practising certificates was properly addressed. For too long, and there are still today, solicitors have presented themselves as competent to practise in the area and deliver legal services generally when they do not carry the licence or authority of the Law Society in the form of a practising certificate in order to operate. The Law Society themselves have been negligent in this area in not being able to ensure that solicitors' accounts are delivered to them within a reasonable period, properly accounted for and certified annually. Consequently, there are people in practice whose accounts for periods going back five and six years have not been settled with the Law Society. Then when major frauds and problems arise for the profession, we wonder how this can happen. If we are ever to police this area properly we must ensure that annual accounts are lodged promptly, that one does not receive a practising certificate until one's accounts have been lodged with and approved by the Law Society so that, in turn, one cannot practise without a certificate because if one does, one is guilty of gross misconduct. All that is provided for in sections 19, 20 and 55 of the Bill, which is long overdue and much to be welcomed.

I wish to deal with the extension of certain services to the banking institutions and trust management companies or corporations. I do not think any objection in principle can be taken to such an extension. The Fair Trade Commission argue that monopoly, where it is unjustifiable, unsupported, where it is not in the interests of the consumer or the common good, cannot and should not be stood over. The Minister takes that point on board and proceeds to deal with it. What concerns me is that the same regime of guarantee, security and compensation, when things go wrong, will not be in existence when a body, other than a solicitor's practice or profession is dealing with it. For example, the compensation fund, indemnity insurance, the policing and control by the Law Society, will not be available under the provisions of the Bill as at present drafted.

I note that the Minister suggests, that his regulations in this general area, when introduced, will ensure that the services to be provided by these institutions must be done under the supervision of an "inhouse" solicitor properly qualified. The Minister departed from his text at that point; he may have used the phrase — by a lawyer properly qualified. A lawyer — it could be a barrister, a legal executive or someone academically qualified — supervising the work will not necessarily bring them within the controls and safeguards to be provided by the Law Society under the provisions of this Bill. Therefore, the Minister needs to be more explicit about that. Because it is of such central importance it should be an active provision of the Bill to be introduced on Committee Stage and not left to be dealt with under the relevant regulations. The Law Society, the Members of this House and the public deserve at least that fundamental consideration — that whatever the Minister proposes in terms of ensuring the extension of the existing safeguards provided by the profession will be extended to these types of services when provided by banks or other organisations, that that be an active part of the Bill as opposed to being left to regulations to be introduced at some later date. I ask the Minister to seriously consider that important point.

I take the point also raised by Deputy Seán Barrett with regard to potential conflicts of interests where, for example, a trust corporation or a bank is given the power and authority to regulate and deal with the moneys of a client already featuring in their accounts, to be disposed of and dealt with. There have been many instances of banks having been shown to withdraw moneys from accounts to be used for other purposes in the short term. They have authority to do so in certain circumstances within standard banking practices, that of moving money around, to fill a gap here or a need there and then rejuggle such moneys within their general reserve as the market fluctuates or demand requires. For example, how would the interests of a client depositor, who is also availing of their probate and trust administration facilities, stand in those circumstances?

These are issues that must be clarified by the Minister before my party will agree to the extension of these powers in this general area. As I said, there is no objection in general or in principle to the idea of the extension of these services. Indeed, I would say to the Law Society and their members that the way to approach the extension of these provisions is to be positive about them, to see them not as an attack on their institution or establishment but rather as a challenge requiring them to improve their service, to render their service more cost effective and efficient. They have a very substantial head start on their competitors and if they get into the field more actively, efficiently and effectively, they will have little difficulty in beating off competition from all comers. If, on the other hand, they whinge that their spoils are being taken away, they will be left behind. One-stop shops and other institutions will emerge which will be far more cost effective and attractive to the consumer than anything the profession has been providing to date. It is a challenge the profession can and should take up and it will lead in time to a much better service to the public.

The issue of legal education has been crying out for action by the Department for a long time. It is an area which has been so grossly neglected that it verges on the criminal. Access to the solicitors profession has been opened up to some extent in recent times simply because a particular student had the temerity, the courage and, some might say, the unbelievable neck to challenge in the Supreme Court the society to which he was seeking admission to qualify as a solicitor. I had direct dealings with the individual involved because he was for a time my apprentice before I came into this House. I advised him time and again to hold back from what he was attempting to do. It was David taking on Goliath. The amount of correspondence, the pressures and the way in which the society so vigorously challenged those proceedings, as they were entitled to do, led me to believe that he was on a hiding to nothing. Ultimately his persistence and the good work of his lawyers won the day and the society recognised that they had to come into this century, with less than a decade of it remaining.

It should always have been the case that anyone with a third level legal degree from a recognised university or institution had the right to go on to study to be a solicitor and to participate in that profession. During the seventies when the Law Society were in the process of establishing their fine law school at Blackhall Place, the universities attempted to negotiate with them. The society, however, were not interested because they did not want to lose control of the numbers who would be admitted annually into the profession. That to them was the single major issue. It had nothing to do with the delivery of the service or the adequacy of the service on a geographical or other basis; it had nothing to do with providing the lawyers who could be employed by Government in the delivery of a national civil and criminal legal aid scheme; it had nothing to do with the quality of the education to be provided or with co-operation and co-ordination with other legal education institutions. It had to do only with maintaining a closed shop, controlling admission and ensuring that the cake would be divided as generously as possible among as few as possible. That was the single guiding principle.

The universities said that the Law Society were belittling their degrees and putting them in an invidious position because they could not guarantee their graduates the ultimate right to move on into the professions by access to the Law Society and the King's Inns. My criticism of the Law Society applies equally to that anachronistic institution, the King's Inns. The Law Society would not negotiate with the universities and insisted on keeping their numbers at a particular level. When they tried to impose that in 1987-88, the student I have mentioned complained that the marking of one of the seven or eight papers he sat was unfair. The whole issue was brought before the courts and the Law Society were forced to give in. If ever a kingdom was lost for the want of a nail, here was one. Had the Law Society negotiated and been reasonable and amenable to the representations of the student or of myself as his then master, they would not be in the current position.

Every graduate of a university or third level institution with a recognised law degree now has the right of admission to Blackhall Place and the opportunity to study to be a solicitor, but there is one additional requirement, namely, that person be apprenticed. What is now happening is that the opportunity to take on apprentices is drying up. Despite the fact that the Minister provides for multiple apprentices to be taken on in large firms, the society and their members are conspiring to maintain the status quo. Students and their parents are coming to my advice centres, perhaps because they know I was at one stage a solicitor and am still a member of the Law Society, asking if I can find an apprenticeship opportunity for themselves or their children. Solicitors who are interested in maintaining a small profession will simply refuse to take on apprentices and ensure by that device that numbers will be kept in check.

The same kind of problem exists in the barristers' profession. The Fair Trade Commission were solid in their recommendation when they stated:

The Commission considers that there should be a common vocational course for solicitors and barristers, with the minimum of separate training....

The Commission recommends that there be established, as a matter of urgency, by the Minister for Justice, an Advisory Committee on Legal Education and Training, charged with reviewing the education and training of lawyers at all stages and with implementing a system of common vocational training, and comprised of a majority of non-lawyers.

They argue for the establishment of an institute of legal education and say that common vocational training should considerably facilitate the interchange of persons between the two branches at a later stage. It goes on to say that the Irish language requirement, that ridiculous anachronism which still exists, should be abolished and that the EC Directive on mutual recognition of higher diplomas should be implemented in a liberal rather than restrictive way.

What does this Bill, this majestic monument to years of work by the Minister, have to say in this regard? It contains a half-hearted and shifty provision which says that the Law Society may, if they wish, co-operate with other persons or institutions in providing common legal education and legal educational services. There is no reference to the other arm of the profession, the barristers. No recognition is given to the fact that fusion of the educational process would lead to a better understanding between the two arms of the profession about their respective jobs and functions, facilitate interchange which in time can only lead to a better delivery of service and, more important, would be a first step towards fusing the professions which is an essential prerequisite of a modern, efficient and cost-effective service.

The Irish language requirement is preposterous in this day and age. I recognise that the Minister is lifting this requirement for people outside Ireland who wish to come here to practise as solicitors. The maintenance of the Irish language requirement by both societies with a view to ensuring that every solicitor, judge and official is proficient in the use of Irish before our courts is ridiculous. I know people who arrived from Africa one day, started their legal studies the next and within one year or less sat their Irish exam and passed it because they had learned off a few basic phrases. The stories told about the fun one can have at oral Irish exams either at the Bar or Law Society are legend if not multitudinous. Lip service is paid by the professions to this requirement, and the Minister knows that well.

One Government Minister insists that this ridiculous anachronism should remain. He was referred to as a pedant by the Taoiseach the other day. The Minister for Justice should be realistic and modern in his outlook and say to that pedant, or any other obscurist within the Government, that we and the professions have to move on. The nonsensical compulsory Irish requirement which has been long abolished in schools and elsewhere should be abolished in this area also. This is not to say that people who want their proceedings conducted in Irish should not be entitled to hire a lawyer or solicitor to do this. I went through the legal system and I passed the Law Society's Irish requirements without much difficulty. However, if I was asked to conduct proceedings in Irish I would have to tell that person to find another solicitor as I would not be prepared to do so. It is not that I am not prepared to do it, I simply cannot do it. I could not do justice to a legal issue before a court or anywhere in Irish and I am not prepared to make pretences in that regard.

The EC Directive on mutual recognition requires us to have regard to the fact that we are now a member of a community of nations which has a diversity of languages, structures and educational systems. It is ridiculous to think that we still place this mandatory requirement in relation to Irish on our citizens when we will not apply it to other Community citizens who wish to study here. I say that with the greatest respect for the language. I believe we would do a greater service to the Irish language if we abolished the anachronistic structures which, if anything, do more to bring it into disrepute than develop it.

I urge the Minister to look at a problem in relation to the discipline of solicitors, the inadequacy of the existing fraud laws to deal with solicitors who misappropriate or wrongly handle their clients' funds while in their accounts. I understand that when the fraud squad visit a solicitor's office in the course of an investigation and make inquiries a solicitor has the opportunity of saying that he moved money from the account but it will be moved back to the account or he never intended to permanently deprive the owner client of the money.

It is time the Minister introduced an offence at criminal law for the handling by solicitors of clients' money in ways other than they are authorised to do in writing. This should be made a strict liability offence. A solicitor who has money on account on behalf of a client should ensure that it remains on account for that client exclusively. If the money is moved or used in any other way by the solicitor that should become an offence under criminal law. The inclusion of such a provision in the Bill would underline the point that solicitors who handle money above and beyond the instructions given to them are being dishonest and criminal in their activities and should be made answerable to the criminal law.

I should like to refer to the issue of advertising which has been dealt with by the Minister in the Bill and elsewhere. I support, as do my party, the position set out by the Commission on Fair Trade in their report. I will not quote it unnecessarily; it is there for the Minister and Deputies to read. Restrictions in this area should be lifted. The worries of the Law Society in this regard are somewhat unnecessary. I do not believe standards will be reduced. The Bill takes on board what the Fair Trade Commission said in regard to their right to regulate the overall content and style of advertising so as to ensure there will not be a lowering of standards or of the public regard for the profession generally. This is a useful way to approach the issue. However, the one area of discord relates to advertising of the fee. Advertising, by its very nature, must inform and the public are entitled to know in general terms what they can expect by way of costs. If one takes out the so-called ambulance chaser from the regime what is left in place is responsible and workable and reflects the ongoing modernisation of the profession.

I am disappointed with the Bill as proposed for the very grave and fundamental reasons I have outlined. Nonetheless the Bill represents an advancement in regard to one arm of the profession generally and legal services on the whole. I look forward to working with the Minister in the Special Committee. I hope he will not simply confine himself to dealing with drafting, typographical or constructional amendments but will be amenable to addressing some of the more fundamental issues which will be raised so that the Special Committee will be a working committee in the way I have suggested.

Debate adjourned.
Sitting suspended at 1.30 p.m. and resumed at 2.30 p.m.
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