Vol. 414 No. 6
12 Mrs. T. Ahearn asked the Minister for Finance if, in view of the Government's policy to continue decentralisation, he intends to locate a Government Department in Clonmel, County Tipperary; if his attention has been drawn to the offer of Tipperary South Riding County Council of their premises at Irishtown, Clonmel, for this purpose; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
As the House will know, details of a further major extension to the decentralisation programmes to six provincial centres — Cork, Longford, Wexford, Portlaoise, Tullamore and Kilkenny — were announced on 12 June last.
I can sympathise fully with the Deputy's concern that Clonmel was not included in the extended programme but I would like to point out that selection of centres for decentralisation is a most difficult task given the large number of locations that merit consideration. It is unfortunate that many communities and towns have had to be disappointed to date.
The offer of Tipperary South Riding County Council of their premises at Irishtown, Clonmel, was brought to my attention in November last. However the present position is that pending a review, following the successful completion of the existing programme, it would be premature to expand the present programme further at this point.
While I welcome the Minister's words of sympathy, the people of south Tipperary would be happier if a commitment was given to make Clonmel a priority in the future. May I ask the Minister why south Tipperary has been ignored to date in the context of decentralisation? Second, I should point out that South Tipperary County Council offered a premises to his Department for the purpose of decentralisation and that decision was arrived at unanimously at the council meeting. The recent preliminary report of the census of population showed a disturbing decline in the population in south Tipperary. More important the Minister should recognise that Clonmel has experienced the closure of Digital with the loss of over 200 jobs, the closure of Burkes and the rationalisation in Barlows. In view of those facts is the Minister prepared to commit himself to having Clonmel, or some centre in south Tipperary, nominated as a priority area for decentralisation in future plans?
I accept that my sympathy will not help Clonmel and I did not express it in any frivolous way. I accept the difficulties experienced by the Deputy. I was honoured to be in attendance at a council meeting some months ago to discuss the question of redundancies. I would be less than credible to Deputy T. Ahearn were I to say I could do much about the situation in the short term. Phase I of the decentralisation programme is more or less finished; part one of phase II, has been successfully completed and some work is taking place on part two. The extended programme announced in June has many aspects. Discussions are taking place with a number of Departments concerning a move to different centres. Some are having great difficulty as I have learned from reading the files. If I were to make further commitments, pending commitments being honoured at these eight locations, it would lack credibility. I am sure the Deputy would not wish me to do that. I assure the Deputy that Clonmel will join a list in the Department but I am not sure how long the list is——
The south-east is getting nothing.
Not since the secession.
Waterford is on the list.
We have been told that for the last five years.
My file states that both the Department of Social Welfare and Telecom are in discussion regarding the matter. The brief on social welfare accommodation and staffing has just been completed.
Good, the Minister will be defeated in Waterford.
In view of the fact that discussions are taking place regarding decentralisation in Waterford may I ask the Minister if any discussions have taken place on decentralisation in south Tipperary? South Tipperary has not benefited from decentralisation and no Government office has transferred to it. Will he outline the factors that determine the decision to decentralise to a particular location and the ground on which Clonmel and south Tipperary do not qualify?
This question relates to Clonmel only and I cannot permit an extension of that question.
Without wishing to dwell at length on this matter, the best I can offer the Deputy is that the present programme will be activated fairly smartly during 1992 and if there are some areas which are experiencing difficulty in getting sections of Government departments to move a reassessment will be carried out. On the issue of decentralisation I am always surprised — and even more so when I read the files — that, as soon as the Government make decisions and the Department of Finance try to organise discussions there is not the same interest in moving. I had better stay with the Government decisions at this stage.
Reference was made to the programme for Portlaoise. Will the Minister inform the House to which phase Portlaoise belongs, the present programme or the extended programme, whether a specific timeframe can be put on the commitment or if it was merely a June promise before the local elections?
I have indicated that the question is confined to Clonmel. If Deputies wish to ascertain the position in other towns or cities they may put down a question.
My question arises directly from the Minister's reply.
That may be so but the Chair is only concerned with the question before him on the Order Paper. I have no responsibility for the Minister's reply.
The Minister is offering information.
In view of the Minister's statement that sometimes it is difficult to get Departments to agree to decentralisation, will he say if Clonmel has been put forward as an option because there is hardly a more attractive or suitable location in which any civil servant would want to live.
I will not disagree with the Deputy on any of those points.
Cluain na Meala — the sweetness of honey.
The extended programme to which I referred, which includes Cork, Longford, Dundalk, Wexford, Waterford, Portlaoise, Tullamore and Kilkenny, is receiving priority. I understand that people from Clonmel have been in touch with the Department and are putting forward a proposal from Tipperary South Riding. That proposal will receive attention in due course but it would be unreasonable to say it will be included in the extended programme.
In relation to the question posed by Deputy T. Ahearn on the decentralisation programme has the Minister or the Government looked at the effect this may have on the spending power in Dublin? Will the Minister give us an indication of how many jobs have been moved from Dublin under this programme?
The Deputy is widening the scope of the question out of all proportion.
The Deputy will have to ask a senior member of the Cabinet about that.
May I have a reply to my first question?
I cannot permit it. I am now proceeding to another question, No. 13.
The reply to Deputy Callely's question will be circulated today, it is further down the list.
