Godfrey Timmins
Ceist:13 Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for Finance if the embargo on filling vacancies in the Civil Service still applies; and, if so, if he will outline the way the system now operates.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Civil Service Recruitment Embargo.
In 1991 an administrative budget arrangement which had operated on an experimental basis in a few Departments was extended to virtually all Departments and offices. Under this arrangement, the allocation of resources, provided in the administrative budget, between payroll costs and other administrative expenditure is a matter for departmental decision and Departments have delegated authority to fill posts up to middle management level without seeking the specific authority of the Department of Finance.
Filling posts above these levels — or in the limited areas of the Civil Service where the administrative budget arrangement does not operate — still requires the sanction of my Department. That sanction will be forthcoming in any particular instance only where my Department are convinced that the filling of a post is essential to the effective operation of a Department or service and where its filling can be accommodated within the constraints of a difficult budgetary situation. I would expect Departments, in utilising the authority delegated to them under their administrative budgets, to adopt the same criteria.
(Limerick East): Will the Minister agree that the question of public service pay is a major fiscal concern for the Government? Will he further agree that in attempting to control public sector pay he will have to look at the numbers in the public service as well as the amount each public servant is paid? Arising from that can he state what is the Government's policy on numbers in the Civil Service and in the wider public service?
The administrative budget arrangement, as the Deputy is aware, was changed in the period 1981-85. In the areas where an administrative budget is operated decisions are left to the manager concerned, normally the Secretary of the Department. The Houses of the Oireachtas, and some other Departments, do not operate that arrangement. The embargo still applies in the other areas where it is based on the administrative budget arrangement.
(Limerick East): May I pursue the matter a little further? Is the Minister informing the House there is no control over public service numbers up to middle management level and that that is a matter for individual Departments subject to the amount of money available? Is that the position?
It is left to Departments who operate the administrative budget arrangement and do not require Department of Finance sanction up to middle management, to control public service numbers. That means that departmental managers, the supervisor, the Secretary of the Department or whoever is concerned, can decide whether to increase or to reduce the number of staff. It is a far better and tighter system. Having operated this system in the Department for the past few years, I can see that it is a far better arrangement. It does not extend to all Departments. The system gives flexibility and management control to a Department. When they are implementing legislation, a new scheme, or a new idea they will have to decide then how to manage it. This system gives the Department far more control than the arbitrary three in one system under which one post was filled when the third post had gone.
(Limerick East): Will the Minister agree that the benefits which derive from a rather expensive redundancy package, which cost about £120 million, are now being dissipated by this new system of control in the public service? Would the Minister not further agree that it is usually in the interests of middle managers and departmental secretaries to take on more staff rather than to let staff go? Would the Minister tell the House whether there is any procedure in place operated by his Department and by him whereby a fixed staff complement which cannot be exceeded is established for Departments?
A fixed complement is there for the areas excluded from the administrative budget system. The staff complement is also kept under control by the Department of Finance, who are involved in all discussions on Estimates. Examination of staffing complements is part of the yearly review, but there is flexibility on it now. The Deputy wanted to know where the administrative budget system is not operated and whether the embargo is still effectively employed. I would mention the Houses of the Oireachtas, the Courts, the President's Establishment, the Attorney General and related offices, charitable donations and bequests and the Garda Complaints Board. Fixed complements of staff are there, but where the Department are allowed to operate the administrative budget system the complements can be increased provided the Department can show the savings on the other side.
I take issue with the Deputy in that the view of most departmental heads is to try to control the staff numbers. At times legislation has been passed in this House setting up a new Department or regulatory mechanism without providing any staffing costs. Under the present system, if money can be saved within the Department, the Department can transfer that money at no cost to the State in order to get far more efficiency. In my experience in the industrial relations area I know that departmental managers have operated this system very effectively. I have to give credit for this to some of Deputy Noonan's colleagues because it was his party in government who started this concept, which works extremely well.
With regard to the money borrowed from the Central Bank, a directive was issued to all Departments directing that where posts were frozen on the basis of retirement those posts could not be filled. The Department of Finance have a list clearly stating the complements and the posts that were frozen in each Department.
(Limerick East): Will the Minister indicate whether or not numbers have changed in the Departments operating the administrative budget system?
The numbers have reduced. The numbers are given in questions the Deputy put down.
(Limerick East): I will get them on circulation.