Enda Kenny
Ceist:2 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the estimated number of people who emigrated from County Mayo in each of the past three years; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Mayo Emigration Statistics.
There was an estimated net outward migration of approximately 6,100 persons from County Mayo in the five-year period 1986 to 1991. This figure is derived as a residual by subtracting the natural increase in the population of Mayo — that is the number of births less the number of deaths — from the change in population as measured by the 1986 and 1991 censuses of population. It is not possible to disaggregate this figure by the year.
I wish to emphasise that the figure quoted represents the net effect of all movements into and out of Mayo, not only to or from abroad, but also to or from other parts of the State. Therefore, it corresponds to the net of two gross flows — outward and inward.
The Minister, in reply to the last question, said that if these questions were phrased differently we would get different answers. I am confused by the statistics produced by the Minister. Surely it is evident from the recent census that the population of County Mayo has declined radically to the extent that the county no longer warrants six Dáil Deputies. Do these statistics not show a clear policy of disinvestment by the Government——
The Deputy is entering the area of policy and that does not arise now. If the Deputy wants to raise policy matters he should put down separate questions.
May I ask the Minister whether the level of emigration from County Mayo as outlined in the reply is in line with the level for every other county? Would he comment on the haemorrhage of young blood from Ireland?
This is incorrect procedure on a statistical question and I will hear no more of it.
I rarely cause trouble.
If the Deputy puts down a question on that matter I will get the statistics for him. If he has difficulty with regard to the figure of 6,100 which I have mentioned, I would be delighted to tell him how that figure is derived. The population in Mayo in 1986 was 115, 184 and in 1991 it was 110,696, a reduction in population of 4,488. The number of births in the county during that period was 8,507 and the number of deaths was 6,881, the natural increase being 1,626. Therefore, net emigration was 6,114.
Would the Minister agree that the figures he has quoted indicate that the rate of emigration from Mayo alone is approximately 60 persons per day? During the period of Question Time in this House, three to four people will emigrate from County Mayo. Would the Minister not agree that that rate of emigration from any part of Ireland, particularly from an area which has suffered so much in the past, is extremely serious?
I trust the Deputy will not seek to circumvent the ruling of the Chair in this matter.
It is a statistical question.
I am not sure whether Deputy Bruton was here when I answered the original question.
I was.
I said that the figures quoted represent the net effect of all movement into and out of Mayo, not only to and from places abroad but also to and from other parts of the State. Therefore, it is not true to say that the figure is an emigration figure. Indeed, my own wife came from Mayo to Meath about 20 years ago.
People moved to places other than County Meath.
Would the Minister not agree that in computing statistics rather than in the manner used up to now the Government might usefully employ the services of the employment exchanges? One example of this could be the figures for people signing off.
Deputy Higgins, please.
I am dealing with the technicality of the CSO statistics, the manner in which they are drawn up and the possibility of making improvements in that regard. More use could be made of services of the FÁS offices, because there does not seem to be any liaison between the well-staffed, and sometimes overly-staffed, employment exchanges. All that the better way programme means is that people are now leaving from Knock rather than Dublin Airport.
We are dealing with essentially statistical questions. Members are now raising the whole matter of unemployment and emigration, which is not good enough.
(Limerick East): May I ask a statistical supplementary question, a Cheann Comhairle?
That is fine.
(Limerick East): May I put it to the Minister of State that if the present trend continues there will be no one at all living in Mayo after 21 years?
I have one final statistical supplementary question. Could the Minister give me a breakdown of the age groupings of the 6,100 who emigrate annually?
I doubt whether it would be possible to supply the Deputy with the information on a year to year basis. The figures I have given already in relation to the 6,100 had to be calculated on the inter-censal period. However, if the Deputy tables a question to that effect I shall try to get whatever information is available.
Thank you Minister. I should appreciate your doing so.
Is the Minister of State satisfied that the best statistics on emigration that his Department can come up with do not distinguish between emigration out of the State and migration to another part of the State? In view of the importance of emigration, emigration policy and support for emigrant welfare, does the Minister of State not consider that there should be emigration statistics on a county basis? Could the Minister of State inquire whether such information is available on a geographic basis in other European countries that have substantial outward migration?
That is an extension of the question.
Once again, if the Deputy puts down a question on that basis, I shall try to get him the information he requires.