Vol. 421 No. 2
7 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Minister for Justice whether he will amend the Registration of Clubs Acts to provide that membership discrimination against women will be a factor to be taken into account by the courts in the annual renewal of club licences.
I consider that the problem of discrimination against women by certain clubs in the matter of membership involves issues of such a nature and scope that it is not suitable for resolution in the narrow context of a change in the law governing annual renewal of licences of clubs which are registered for the supply of intoxicating liquor to members.
Would the Minister agree that the time has come to resolve this problem of discrimination against women by clubs — this outdated anachronism — and, if he is not prepared to accept the proposal that I have made, has he any alternative suggestion?
I do; indeed it has long since passed. This question relates to the licensing Act. The fact that a club discriminates against women in its rules is not listed as one of the grounds on which one may object under section 5 of the Registration of Clubs (Ireland) Act, 1904. It comes down, therefore, to a question of human behaviour and attitudes which are beginning to change. I would like to see this problem resolved.
In making an application for a club licence under the 1904 Act, as amended, it is necessary to produce a list of members and the constitution of the club. If the Minister is not prepared to accept my proposal, would he agree that by implication this amounts to an acceptance on the part of the State — I accept that the licence is granted by the courts — that clubs continue to discriminate against women? I urge him to look on the proposal I have made as a neat solution which may lead to the elimination of this ridiculous anomaly.
As the Deputy is well aware, certificates of registration are renewable each year by the District Court and the renewal of the licence may be objected to by the local Garda superintendent or any resident in the parish. However, one may not object on the grounds suggested by the Deputy. Consequently, I do not think that is the vehicle that should be used.
I am suggesting that the law should be changed.
I agree with the Deputy that the problem should be resolved and that it should no longer be the subject of questions in the House. This view is shared by people outside the House. I think this is happening.
No thanks to the Minister.
Thanks are due to many people who regard this attitude as outdated.
Would my proposal not lead to a resolution of the problem once and for all?
It is not catered for legally and it is not the vehicle that I would like to see used.
Did the Minister not see the report in the Sunday newspaper in which it was said that his colleague, the Minister for Women's Affairs, Deputy Kitt, gave a commitment that something would be done in this area, having been caught offside in a golf club which discriminates against women? Perhaps the Minister would consult his colleague. Would he not accept that some measures would have to be taken if what we were discussing amounted to racial or ethnic discrimination? The measure proposed by Deputy O'Keeffe would lead to one short sharp blow being given to golf clubs and in my opinion would work.
We are not talking only about golf clubs.
I do not think the way to go about it is to change the licensing laws but I will take the Deputy's suggestion and will have a word with my colleague, the Minister of State Deputy Kitt. When inexorable pressure is applied by the public change is brought about. That is the way I would like to see it happen. I agree it is time we were rid of this matter.
May I suggest to the Minister that the problem should not be left in the hands of the public to exert inexorable pressure? Would he not accept that we are making slow progress in this area in the last decade of the century?
Would the Minister agree that, as we approach the end of this century, it is ridiculous that there are clubs here that exclude women, not just golf clubs but many others? Would the Minister accept that the primary difficulty is that many, if not all of these, are private clubs, not subject to public law; that they can be confronted only when they enter the public arena and seek a licence from the courts to do certain things? Would he agree that the issuing of a pub licence, or a licence to sell intoxicating liquor, is the one way in which they can be brought to their senses immediately because the inevitable loss of revenue would hurt them? If we cannot appeal to their reason would the Minister not agree that there is a duty on Government to have them come to their senses by hurting their pockets?
That is a point of view. We are all at one here in that we would like to see any element of discrimination finally removed. The Deputy is talking to somebody who believes in that principle. I am very happy to support the unanimous view here. It is happening but, of course, not sufficiently fast. There are still some elements in some areas where something must be done. I will be happy to exert any pressure I can with that in mind.
Would the Minister agree that it was not until legislation was passed that discrimination against women in the areas of pay, job opportunities and so on were tackled? Would he agree that it was not until other legislation emanated from his Department that we dealt with religious and racial discrimination? Would the Minister agree that discrimination against someone because of their gender is long since out of date and should have ended? Is the Minister aware and does he accept that some golf and tennis clubs, and others, will never change without the Government bringing forward legislation and having it enacted by this House? Would he give further consideration to the somewhat complacent views he has on this issue?
They are not complacent because discrimination on any grounds has no place with me. I will be happy to give consideration to its elimination.
