Michael Finucane
Ceist:17 Mr. Finucane asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry when he will bring forward proposals for a new agri-environment scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Proposed Agri-Environment Scheme.
Eamon Gilmore
Ceist:33 Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry if his attention has been drawn to the very serious damage being caused to upland regions from soil erosion arising from overgrazing by sheep, especially in the west; in view of the potential damage to grazing areas as well as the environmental damage, the steps, if any, he is taking to deal with the problem; the plans, if any, he has to control sheep numbers in the areas where the problem is greatest; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Mary Flaherty
Ceist:35 Miss Flaherty asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry when he will bring forward proposals for a new agri-environmental scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Frances Fitzgerald
Ceist:49 Ms F. Fitzgerald asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry when he will bring forward proposals for a new agri-environmental scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Robert Molloy
Ceist:63 Mr. Molloy asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry the amount of compensation per acre which was offered to farmers in Connemara under the environmentally sensitive areas scheme; the organisations which have been consulted in the preparation of Ireland's submission under the scheme; and if he will give an outline of the scheme as proposed to date.
John Browne
Ceist:87 Mr. Browne (Carlow-Kilkenny) asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry when he intends to introduce the EC agri-environmental programme so that Irish farmers will be in a position to gain up to £25 million annually for the next five years.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 17, 33, 35, 49, 63 and 87 together.
I will be in a position shortly to outline our proposals to give effect to the agri-environment measure of Common Agricultural Policy reform.
It is likely that our agri-environment scheme will contain a general ESA type programme available to farmers throughout the country. Farmers would be paid a basic premium per hectare for work carried out under this scheme such as maintaining hedgerows, repairing traditional stone walls, fencing water courses and protecting wildlife habitats.
In addition, I envisage that farmers who undertake further environmentally friendly farming activities such as engaging in organic farming, managing lands designated as natural heritage areas by the Office of Public Works and tackling overgrazing by sheep on hills or water quality problems in certain areas of the country will also receive an extra premium.
Overgrazing by sheep is a problem in some hill areas and I believe that the new agri-environment scheme will be very helpful in addressing it. Also under Common Agricultural Policy reform, a national quota for sheep will be established at 1991 levels and this will remove the incentive to increase sheep numbers soley to obtain the EC premia. The general question of stocking levels is largely a management issue for farmers and they should avail of the advisory services of Teagasc in this regard.
Officials of my Department have had consultations with, or received submissions from organisations in connection with the preparation of our scheme to give effect to the agri-environment element of Common Agricultural Policy reform. There are 13 of these and I will not bore the House by reading out the names of these organisations.
If time allows, it is hoped to have further consultations with the various interests before our proposed scheme is submitted to the EC Commissions for approval. Subject to EC approval, I aim to have the new scheme, which will absorb the two pilot ESA schemes, on offer to farmers later this year.
The amount of compensation on offer to farmers in the Slyne Head area of Connemara under the pilot environmentally sensitive areas scheme (ESA) is £50 per hectare, subject to an overall maximum of £1,000 per farm.
Would the Minister not agree that in terms of the agri-environment, pollution grants are of extreme importance? Funding is available to complete the present schedule, but are there any projections on future pollution grants? That grant has had an extremely beneficial effect on the environment in preventing rivers and fish kills. Will the Minister give an assurance that this aspect will be catered for in future funding? He said the money would go towards work such as maintaining hedgerows. In view of the fact that it is not feasible for local authorities to cut hedges due to lack of finance, does the Minister envisage that maintenance of hedging will be covered under this aspect of the agri-environment?
I agree fully with the Deputy on the importance and effectiveness of the Department's scheme for the control of farmyard pollution. The allocation under that scheme was taken up very early after its introduction. Later in the year we carried out a survey of farmers who had received approval but had not yet commenced work and as a result we were in a position to grant further approvals to farmers to embark on schemes for the control of farmyard pollution. That was done to ensure the maximum possible benefit from the schéme and that the money would be fully utilised. I assure the Deputy that we attach much importance to this scheme and we will be seeking additional funding for its continuation in the next round of Structural Funds.
On the overall impact of the environmentally sensitive areas scheme on the countryside, Deputies will agree that in areas where the pilot scheme has been in operation — the Slieve Bloom and Slyne Head areas — there are obvious benefits in terms of improvements to the overall natural environment. We are subsuming these two pilot areas into a broader package which will be applied nationally and every farmer who wishes to farm in an environmentally friendly way will be enabled to avail of that package. It is a worthwhile package and we will be pursuing it further.
What consultations will take place with farmers before areas are designated by the Office of Public Works in the context of the environmentally sensitive areas scheme? Arising from the Minister's reference to the fact that the new sheep quotas will help to remove what he called the incentive for over-grazing in certain areas, would it be fair to conclude that it is with that fact in mind the Minister's Department has dragged its heels in a most appalling fashion in the final allocation of sheep quotas for this year? That is only a spurious excuse for not telling people what their full entitlements are under sheep quotas for this year. Will the Minister stop using that excuse for the bureaucratic delay and get on with the proper job of fully allocating quotas?
I am not using that as an excuse and there are no bureaucratic delays in the allocation of sheep quotas.
What kind of delays are there? Why do people not know——
The Minister should be allowed to reply.
The allocation of quotas will inevitably restrict the increase in sheep numbers, particularly in the areas where Deputies are concerned about damage to the natural environment.
The numbers are being cut without telling people. Is the Minister aware that in some areas people who have applied for quotas based on their 1990 and 1991 flock numbers are being told their quotas for this year are way below their present numbers? For the Minister to suggest there is a connection——
Please, Deputy Dukes.
——between the delay in the allocation of quotas and his concern for over-grazing the mountains is nonsensical.
The Minister was endeavouring to respond to the Deputy's question.
Let us have honest answers.
I reject totally that there is any delay in the allocation of sheep quotas.
Why have the quotas not been allocated?
I hope the Deputy understands the point I make, that the application of quotas will contain and restrict the excessive over-stocking of lands in areas about which Deputies are correctly concerned.
That is flannel; it does not mean a thing.
If the Deputy does not wish to hear the facts, perhaps he will allow me the courtesy of replying to other Deputies' questions. On Deputy Dukes's query on consultation, I will read out the long list of farming and environmental organisations if the Deputy so wishes. Extensive discussions have taken place with farming and environmental organisations in preparation of the framework of the package we are putting together which will be submitted to Brussels by the end of July. We hope to have further consultation with these organisations for the purpose of letting them see the final package so that they may give their views and recommendations on it before it is submitted to Brussels.
What about the farmers themselves?
Did I hear the Minister right in informing the House that the amount of compensation payable to farmers whose lands are designated as environmentally sensitive is £20 an acre?
It is £50 per hectare.
That is £20 an acre. Will the Minister give the names of the organisations with whom he consulted? The only organisation I know of to whom the Minister has spoken in Connemara is outraged at the suggestion that this scheme, which has been heralded so much and about which so much has been written, will offer the paltry sum of £20 an acre compensation for farmers who are so designated. This will have disastrous effects in Connemara and throughout the west, from Cork to Donegal. Perhaps the Minister will comment on that matter.
It is important to inform the House of the organisations with which consultation took place. They are: An Taisce, the Irish Farmers Association, the Federation of Irish Chemical Industries, Teagasc, the Wildlife Service of the Office of Public Works, the Department of the Environment, the Irish Organic Farmers and Growers Association, the Biodynamic Agricultural Association in Ireland, Organic Farmers of Ireland, Forum — a rural development partnership in Connemara of which the Deputy will be aware — the Central Fisheries Board and Ground Limestone Producers Association of Ireland. Department of Agriculture officials met these organisations in the formulation of the proposed new measures.
As regards the two pilot areas to which the Deputy referred, Slyne Head in the Deputy's constituency and the Slieve Bloom area in my constituency, the level of grant payable is £50 per hectare, subject to a maximum grant per farm of £1,000. I agree that is a very small level of grant. Nonethless, from my observation of the scheme, certainly in the Slieve Bloom area, there has been a very positive response to the scheme and the overall environment in that area has improved considerably. I visited Slyne Head in the Deputy's constituency and met farmers who are enthusiastic about the scheme. Obviously all farmers believe the level of grant should be increased, and that is our aim in the new scheme. I cannot give a categoric assurance on the matter at this stage.
Does the Minister not think he will be at a disadvantage in arguing for increased funding to support farming when his Department cut the allocation in the Estimate and should the Department not have a much clearer view of the problems attached to over-grazing since there is considerable permanent damage to the landscape as a result? Since agri-environment is now part of the brief of the Department of Agriculture, surely it is not sufficient simply to leave it to the mechanisms of which the Minister talked to protect the landscape from the impact of over-grazing? This problem has been evident for a while and we were warned about it.
A question please, Deputy. We cannot have a speech at this stage.
I appreciate the point, particularly in relation to the mountain regions in the west and in Wicklow. We are not leaving it just to the mechanisms outlined. In the broader agricultural package there is grant-aid for the housing of livestock. We hope to be able to take sheep off the mountains during the autumn and the winter when most damage is caused to the soil structure. There is a package of measures along with restrictive controls of the grants in terms of these sensitive areas which I am anxious to preserve and protect.
I asked two questions one of which the Minister has not answered.
I am calling Deputy Crawford and this is to be the last question.
As much European money has been allocated, it is imperative that the schemes be set up as soon as possible. Can the Minister give us any indication as to when? I am glad that some sort of cattle or sheep housing will be catered for in the scheme. The Minister said that Teagasc will encourage producers to carry fewer stock. It is strange that the Government should go along with the EC regime. Teagasc was the promoter of——
Brevity, please.
——increased production and it is now being used to curtail production and thus curtail jobs.
We hope to have new proposals ready by the end of July. They will be forwarded to Brussels immediately. I hope to have the new national scheme up and running before the end of this year, at least to the stage where farmers will be in a position to apply. Although the scheme is a national one and individuals can apply, I hope farmers will come together in groups to make application because that is the only way to make a worthwhile environmental impact. I realise that I did not reply to a question put by Deputy McManus on organic farming. While it is now the responsibility of my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy O'Shea, I know from my discussions with him that he will be promoting organic farming and will be seeking a level of funding in line with the scale of industry here, which is not great.
With regard to the environmentally sensitive areas, the Minister gave a list of organisations with whom he had consulted. Will the Minister agree that the only organisations among those the Minister has listed which could in any way claim to represent the small farmers in Connemara is the IFA? I am aware that the Minister attended a meeting in Clifden. Is the Minister telling the House that he got an enthusiastic reception at the IFA meeting in Clifden for a compensatory amount of £20 per acre? That is not what the farmers informed me. They told me that they considered the figure the Minister mentioned at that meeting——
The Deputy is making a speech.
——as absolutely ludicrous.
In Connemara I met a very large group of farmer representatives at an IFA meeting. At that meeting I outlined all of the agricultural schemes in which they were interested. I indicated that I would bring in a broader package under the environmentally sensitive areas schemes. I agree with the Deputy in that one would not find a farmer anywhere in Ireland who would jump with enthusiasm about a grant of £50 per hectare. We have two pilot schemes, one in the Slieve Bloom area operating very effectively and one in Slyne Head which is now taking off. I visited Slyne Head recently and met farmers there. We will do what we can to make the scheme more attractive to farmers. In future the scheme will apply not only to Connemara and Slieve Bloom but to the entire country. The Deputy will appreciate the need to have widespread consultation with farming interests.
The Minister should tell the truth. He was lucky to get out of Clifden alive that night. He was nearly brought out on a rail.
The Minister referred to maintenance of hedging. Perhaps he would expand on that. In relation to wildlife habitats, the largescale burning of gorse or furze at certain times of the year can have a considerable impact on wildlife, particularly birds. Will provisions ensure that burning is controlled at certain times of the year?
There are regulations in force, apart from the controls in the environmentally sensitive areas schemes, which forbid the burning of gorse at certain times of the year. That legislation is effective but perhaps not always implemented. One of the purposes of the scheme is to encourage farmers to maintain their hedgerows and keep them as presentable as possible and to protect wildlife who inhibit the hedges. We are also anxious to retain stone walls which are part of the traditional environment in certain areas. This is the package which will contribute to the protection of our traditional environment.