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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 29 Jun 1993

Vol. 433 No. 1

Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Structural Funding.

John Bruton

Ceist:

3 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he requested the Copenhagen Summit of EC Heads of Government to ask the European Commission to undertake a comprehensive and in depth analysis of the unemployment problem in Europe including the impact on levels of unemployment of interest rate and monetary policy, the level of investment in research and development, the impact of regulation of the labour market at European and national level, and the impact of personal income and social security taxation and of the form, nature and level of income maintenance for those unemployed or underemployed.

John Bruton

Ceist:

4 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the nature and content of his discussions with the UK Prime Minister recently.

Desmond J. O'Malley

Ceist:

5 Mr. O'Malley asked the Taoiseach the indications, if any, he received at the Copenhagen Summit of the amount of Structural Funding that Ireland will receive.

Desmond J. O'Malley

Ceist:

6 Mr. O'Malley asked the Taoiseach the proposals, if any, he has for Ireland to contribute to the formulation of the EC Commission White Paper on employment following the eight point plan initiative of Commission President Delors.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 to 6, inclusive, together.

I refer the Deputies to my statement in the House on Thursday, 24 June on the meeting of the European Council in Copenhagen on 21-22 June and my meeting in London on 16 June with the British Prime Minister, Mr. John Major.

In respect of Questions Nos. 3 and 5, is it true that the Government is now proposing to block the entire Structural Funds, for all the countries in Europe if it does not get the £8 billion which the Taoiseach said he was promised in Edinburgh? If so, what effect will that have on the flow of existing funds?

Many countries have expressed serious reservations about the regulations which have not yet been published. The Deputy can be assured that the Government will take the appropriate action when it examines the regulations.

Deputy J. Bruton rose.

I am calling Deputy O'Malley. I will call Deputy Bruton later.

It is impossible to pursue any line of questioning——

Sorry, Deputy, there is a number of Deputies involved in these questions; I propose to call them seriatim.

Questions Nos. 3 and 4 are in my name.

Deputy O'Malley is giving way to Deputy Bruton.

Is the Taoiseach not confirming the statement in the Evening Herald today that he told EC chiefs he would block the whole Structural Fund programme if they did not “cough up”?

I have not seen the Evening Hearld to which Deputy Bruton refers but I am making it quite clear in this House that the Government will take whatever action is necessary.

Did the Taoiseach make that statement?

Listen to what I have to say, please.

Please, Deputy Dukes, you may not interrogate a Member in this fashion from a seated position.

The Deputy and the House can rest assured that whatever action is necessary, including the blocking of the regulations if it should come to that — let us hope it does not — will be taken. Other countries have already signalled that they will block the regulations for different reasons. This matter should be dealt with when the appropiate meetings take place.

Why did the Taoiseach not say that the first time instead of hiding behind——

Is the Taoiseach aware — as I am sure he must be — of the issuing of a document yesterday by Commissioner Millan in relation to the share out of funds between the four countries involved where the criteria laid down by Commissioner Millan will result in Ireland obtaining a sum less than £6 billion as against the £8 billion originally stated by the Taoiseach which became £8.8 billion with the devaluation of the Irish pound? In view of this very serious development, what steps does the Taoiseach or the Government propose to take between now and Friday when I understand this matter will be finally decided at a meeting of Community Foreign Ministers.

First, I do not expect the matter to be finally resolved on Friday as another meeting is scheduled for July. Second, I have not seen the document referred to by Deputy O'Malley but if I am to judge by the reports I read in the newspapers about the criteria applied — or which some officials say is being applied in Brussels — that per capita income is the criteria by which our allocation will be decided and if that is the true position then I can tell the House, and the Commission indirectly, that it is totally unacceptable and is not the only criteria on which allocations will be judged at the end of the day. In May Ireland submitted a detailed objective criteria to the EC Commission justifying an allocation of £8 billion. We are not seeking a percentage of all Structural Funds, only those applying to Objective I regions. The detailed criteria which we submitted followed directly from the Edinburgh Conclusions and include not only income per capita but peripherality, unemployment, long term unemployment, migration, dependency, population density and other indicators of rural disadvantage. That is the basic criteria which we have put forward and since then we have heard nothing to suggest our case is not being accepted. I am sure it is quite clear to Deputies that two countries or regions could have the exact same income per capita but if one is peripheral or more structurally disadvantaged than the other then clearly both should not receive the same amount. We have taken the capacity and structural disadvantages into account and have produced a transparent basis which shows that Ireland should maintain its existing share of Structural Funds.

I hope the Taoiseach will sound more convincing at the meeting.

Will the Taoiseach agree, in the light of what he said at Edinburgh and on many occasions subsequently, that his credibility is at stake on this issue?

No, I do not accept that. In fact, this campaign of information has been going on for some time; it started in Brussels in December 1992, some days following the Summit. At that time a spokesman for the European Commission issued an official statement disassociating the executive from the views expressed by a number of senior officials who, on Wednesday, queried Ireland's chance of getting £8 billion of EC aid from new Structural Funds. That statement was published in the Irish media on 18 December.

I hope the Taoiseach did not mislead the Labour Party.

I am sure most Members agree with the Taoiseach's remarks about the criteria but the Commission will lay them down. In Brussels yesterday Commissioner Millan issued a document setting out different criteria and senior officials of the Commission are quoted this morning as insisting that Ireland, with just 1 per cent of the Community population, cannot lay claim to 13.5 per cent of the aid fund. As there appears to be a major difference in approach between the Government and the Commission on how such moneys should be allocated, will the Taoiseach take urgent steps in the next few days to ensure that the criteria which he and the Government favour will prevail? In particular, has the Taoiseach communicated with President Delors on this matter?

These are not just dreamed up criteria as far as Ireland is concerned, they reflect the Edinburgh Conclusions which have been put forward to the Commission and not rejected by it. If the income per capita criteria the officials in Commissioner Millan's department put forward are the only criteria, this Government will totally and absolutely reject them because they do not reflect the Edinburgh Conclusions. We know exactly what the criteria should be, we have put forward our case on that basis and it is up to the Commission to tell us where we are off-side.

May I ask a question in regard to No. 4?

It is in order to do that now.

What are the Taoiseach's views on the statement by Mr. Seamus Mallon in the House of Commons last week that he did not believe there would be a resumption of the interparty talks, even this autumn in Northern Ireland? Has the Taoiseach a more — or less — optimistic perspective than that?

I do not understand how that relates to Question No. 4, it relates to the nature and content of the discussions with the UK Prime Minister to which I referred last week and which I will repeat today. Sir Patrick Mayhew and the Prime Minister are reasonably optimistic that they can get the talks back on stream by the autumn.

In relation to the question of Structural Funds, what arrangements will be put in place to recast the National Development Plan, the proposals of which we debated here last week? Does the Taoiseach intend to extend the time available to organisations throughout the country, particularly subregional organisations, to resubmit plans in regard to the National Development Plan? Will he indicate also the provision he is making for an input to the submission which the Government will be making by 1 September with regard to job creation by the European Community to which he referred last week?

I referred last week to the eight point strategy put forward by President Jacques Delors. I said we would be responding to those eight points from an Irish standpoint before 1 September and I indicated the type of approach we would adopt. In regard to the first part of the Deputy's question, we have no plans to allow more time for organisations to resubmit plans. Many cases have been put forward in this regard and the Minister for Finance will be finalising his plan and the negotiations in due course.

The Taoiseach indicated in the House last week that he raised with the British Prime Minister the circumstances surrounding the continued detention of John Matthews. Will the Taoiseach outline——

I want to help Deputy Creed in respect of that matter, but it is not in order now.

I fail to understand why it is not in order when the Taoiseach was asked the nature and content of the discussions with the UK Prime Minister.

This matter has been the subject of discussion in this House recently.

Surely it is a legitimate question if the Taoiseach informed the House last week——

Question No. 4 has been allowed.

Question No. 4 relates to discussions with the Prime Minister, but that does not relate specifically to the Deputy's question.

Last week in the House the Taoiseach indicated he raised the matter with the British Prime Minister. Will he outline the contents of his negotiations with the Prime Minister and whether he specifically requested the British Attorney General to review the evidence in the case?

That matter was the subject of an Adjournment debate.

Deputy Bruton and others asked me to raise that matter with the British Prime Minister and request him to have the matter examined and I have done that.

I call Deputy Cox.

What response has there been from the British Prime Minister to the queries the Taoiseach raised with him?

Deputy Creed, please resume your seat.

I put down a question to the Taoiseach on this matter and I fail to understand why it did not appear on the Order Paper.

This matter was the subject of discussion in this House recently and the Deputy is well aware of that.

In relation to the division of Structural Funds across the various countries on a per capita basis which was raised after the Edinburgh Summit, is the Taoiseach aware that the European Court of Auditors, the equivalent in Europe of our Comptroller and Auditor General, has drawn the attention of the European Commission to the importance of that criteria in its annual report for 1991 and previous years and that, therefore, there will be a duty of care on the Commission to have regard to an opinion coming from a source such as that in any future distribution of funds regardless of the criteria chosen?

There is a duty on the Commission to ensure, and the Copenhagen Conclusions concur, that the Conclusions of the Edinburgh Summit should be respected in the implementation of decisions. Consequently, I reject that they are the only criteria on which funds can be allocated, it does not state that anywhere in the regulations.

Did the Taoiseach discuss with our partners the possibility of augmenting the Structural Funds or did he share with them his idea of a tax amnesty which might apply across the Twelve and yield about £200 billion, according to the calculations for the proposed amnesty here?

That is extraneous matter.

Did the Taoiseach inform his partners of his proposed tax gathering system here?

That matter does not arise now.

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