Deputy McManus was in possession but I understand that Deputy Fox is utilising that time with the agreement of the Deputy concerned. The Deputy has five minutes at his disposal.
Private Members' Business. - Wildlife Bill, 1993: Second Stage (Resumed).
Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
For many centuries the Irish nation has been regarded by the rest of the world as a brave, generous, humane and sporting people. However, during the past two weeks in particular this reputation has been somewhat tarnished. Last week this House passed a Bill which will have serious consequences for our social behaviour. This week we may reject a Bill which will cause serious doubts about our humanity as a nation.
The activity of hare coursing — I refuse to call it a sport — is a vile and degrading one from which society at large needs to be protected. There is a school of thought within the Government parties that measures are necessary to modify this barbarity. It is extraordinary that these measures have not been in place and it has taken a Bill introduced by an Independent Member to jolt the Government into taking some action on this issue.
Neither the Government nor the Fine Gael Party will allow a free vote on this issue and this does nothing to enhance the reputation of the political parties in this House. I do not know at what stage the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry intends to come back to the House with the measures he has in mind but does this not amount to an admission that this Bill is necessary and long overdue? I call on the Minister to let the House know as soon as possible, in the event of this Bill not being passed tonight what exactly he has in mind. Needless to say, the measures contained within it should not be watered down.
The Bill calls on the Government to ban blood sports, particularly hare coursing. However, I would not like to see those people who catch fish or take part in other genuine and necessary activities held up to ridicule in this regard. I wish to make it abundantly clear that hare coursing is by far and away the lowest form of human depravity which affects the animal world. It is time it was banned.
The contributions I have listened to in this debate have been interesting and even amusing. I think it was Deputy Fitzgerald who regarded hare coursing as a noble sport, while Deputy Foley said that hare coursing is part of the natural heritage of man. If it is part of the natural heritage of man it is extraordinary that last week the same Deputies voted in favour of the Bill which decriminalised homosexuality, which is a contradiction in terms. Deputy Fitzgerald also pointed a finger at Deputy Gregory saying that he knew nothing about hares and that one would find few hares parading through the streets of the inner city of Dublin. That is true, but let me say, as someone who comes from farming stock, on behalf of all the decent farming and rural people that there is a feeling of revulsion about this activity. I take exception to some of the remarks made by journalists during the past few weeks that this activity is part of the rural scene and is supported by the farming community. This is not the case.
I would like to conclude by calling on all parties to allow a free vote on this issue and on all Deputies to remember the screams of God's creatures which face a certain death in this revolting and inhumane fashion. If this Bill is not enacted and hare coursing is not banned immediately we will not be able to hold our heads high or call ourselves a brave, humane or sporting nation.
I understand fully the circumstances that gave rise to Deputy Gregory's wish to have this Bill brought before this House. I have been concerned by some of the material on this subject which has been circulating in recent years. The graphic portrayal of certain incidents at coursing matches has raised concern on cruelty issues. I am not here today to defend or even to play down the unacceptable incidents that were witnessed at some recent coursing meetings. I have already condemned outright what happened at Clounanna last February and at Clonmel last year. However, we should not judge any long-established or traditional sport or industry on the basis of recent events or selective statistics. We must take the full picture into consideration.
I am fully aware of the sensitivity of this issue with which we are dealing today. Agriculture is important to Ireland economically but many of its facets are steeped in tradition. The farmer invariably enjoys his or her work and this contributes substantially to his or her performance and job satisfaction. In Ireland, more so than in most countries, agriculture means the caring and tending of animals. Over the years this occupation and, indeed, preoccupation has led to an innate love of animals. This love of animals manifests itself not only among the farming community but also among town and city dwellers who, in many cases are just one or two generations removed from the land. This is one area in which Ireland's urban and rural ethos combine. As a nation, we would class ourselves as animal lovers and regard intentional cruelty to animals as unacceptable behaviour. The Protection of Animals Act, 1911, as amended in 1965, gives testament to this. This legislation outlaws the beating, kicking, ill-treating, over-riding over-driving, over-loading, torturing, infuriating or terrifying any animal. I could go on but the point I want to make is that we are a nation of animal lovers and we will not permit any unnecessary cruelty to animals to continue.
It is right that all reasonable shades of opinion to be found in our society find expression in this House. I was very impressed by the reasonable opinions expressed on this sensitive subject during the past week.
However, the responsibility rests with Government to examine problems in a wider context and to bring forward proposals which would best meet the need of society as a whole. We cannot look at coursing in isolation. It is, as my colleague the Minister of State, Deputy O'Shea, has already told the House last week, inextricably linked with the greyhound industry and its development.
Deputies will be aware in this regard, that the greyhound industry has been going through serious difficulties. Last July I established a task force of representatives of Bord na gCon and officials from my Department to examine the structures, financing and legislation governing the whole greyhound industry. Naturally I included in the remit of this group the issue of coursing. They looked into the history of the subject and the current issues surrounding the sport. The task force concluded its deliberations recently and a position paper on the industry was submitted to me.
Deputies will also be aware of a separate and special investigation which was carried out recently by the Irish Coursing Club following the killing of 48 hares at a coursing meeting in Clounanna in February last. At my direction, officials of my Department kept in touch with that investigation and reported on it. I have now received the ICC report on the incident. The House is already aware that the Minister of State, Deputy O'Shea, who has functional responsibility for this area in the Department, has, since taking office, engaged in wide consultations with the various representatives in the industry. Recently the Minister of State and I met jointly with the ICC. He has also met with the Irish Council against Blood Sports as recently as this morning.
I have examined the task force report, the Department's position paper and the ICC report on Clounanna. I have considered the various views put forward by the greyhound industry as well as those groups opposed to coursing. I have also had regard to the June 1992 report of the Oireachtas Joint Committee which reviewed the industry and made recommendations relating to the role and statutory position of the ICC. Bearing in mind all these reports, I submitted my proposals on the future of the greyhound industry and its development, including the coursing issue, to Government last week.
I should like to outline to the House some of the main factors I considered on this issue. First, I considered the overall greyhound industry and its future. It is an important sector and gives valuable employment in rural areas in particular. Greyhound rearing and breeding are a genuine alternative enterprise in the agricultural sector. In times of over-production in many agricultural products, with Common Agricultural Policy reform and GATT agreements limiting our options to an ever-increasing extent, we are constantly in search of alternative enterprises in which we are skillful, have natural advantages and which have a market potential. Greyhound breeding satisfies these criteria. Approximately 10,000 people currently derive their livelihoods either directly or indirectly from the greyhound industry and approximately 8,000 of these are breeders, owners and trainers. Approximately 20,000 greyhounds are produced each year, about half of which are exported, mostly to the UK. It is estimated that the industry is worth about £40 million per annum to the economy.
It is felt that there is considerable potential for development of the entertainment side of greyhound racing in Ireland and in foreign markets for the sale of quality Irish greyhounds. I am reliably informed that our European and US markets in particular can be expanded considerably. The exploitation of the full potential of this industry, both in regard to racing here at home and to exports, would benefit many local communities and would increase employment, particularly in rural areas where many people are deprived of other opportunities and have suffered badly in recent times.
A major factor in helping us to develop the greyhound breeding and racing industry is that we already have an excellent reputation worldwide for producing good quality greyhounds. The coursing fraternity make a strong case that it is, in fact, the coursing lines in the pedigrees of our track racing dogs that gives them their speed and contributes significantly to the quality of their performance on the racing circuit. They point to historical information on the pedigrees of Derby winners down the years, including the English Derby which was run last week. Their concern in this area is for the quality of the Irish greyhound in the future. They claim that if hare coursing is banned the quality of the Irish track dog will suffer irreparable damage and if Ireland loses its reputation for quality in its greyhound breeding then the industry could go into terminal decline.
I do not accept that this would necessarily be the case, but I do not think that we should take this risk lightly. Exports are the lifeblood of our greyhound industry and if the overseas demand for our dogs diminishes then the future of the industry in this country will be anything but bright. If coursing dogs are used in the breeding cycle then their pedigree must have some influence on our track dogs. These considerations suggest that every effort must be made to remove any unacceptable elements of coursing rather than going for an outright ban.
I am informed that most people in the industry are not opposed to coursing and many participate in both racing and coursing activities. There is a strong body of opinion, in rural areas in particular, in favour of coursing. The competitive pursuit of hares by greyhounds has been engaged in in this country for centuries. It was introduced on an organised basis in 1819 when the first coursing meeting was held in the Curragh. Interest in the sport has traditionally cut across the various sections of our society. In the 19th century the sport was very popular with landowners, small farmers and farm workers alike. It currently enjoys the support of the professional classes, skilled and unskilled workers and the farming community.
The impression is often given that all the people who support this activity are blood thirsty and have a naturally cruel or sadistic nature. Of course, this is not true. I personally know many good and caring families who are stalwarts of their communities and enjoy participation in this sport. Another impression which is often put about is that the participants in coursing are animal haters who enjoy seeing a hare being killed and that this in some sordid way whets their appetites for more of the same. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth.
The sport is essentially about the testing of one greyhound against another for speed and agility. Most supporters of coursing take enjoyment from seeing the hare outwit the dogs and escape to safety. It is also a fact that the Irish Coursing Club and its members are committed to the protection and conservation of hare stocks and have on their own initiative taken measures to protect the hare in the Irish countryside. The ICC has held seminars for its members and those interested in such aspects as hare welfare, husbandry, habitat, population and medication.
Deputies might at this juncture query the events at Clounanna last February. The ICC report on its investigation into this matter suggests that, having considered the evidence from those interviewed, in particular the veterinary evidence and the results of laboratory examinations of some of the hares killed, no clear veterinary conclusions could be drawn to explain the high number of hares killed at the meeting. All the hares were dosed for worms and coccidiosis on intake to the hare paddock. On veterinary advice the hares were twice medicted by dosing with amprol in the weeks before the meeting. The hare stock was examined in its entirety on a number of occasions and pregnant and otherwise unfit hares were removed and released. The remaining hares appeared fit before coursing and generally ran very well for a certain distance. There was no evidence of coccidiosis found in any hares on which a post mortem was carried out following the coursing.
The general purposes sub-committee of the ICC suggested a number of factors which it considered would have contributed to the high number of kills at Clounanna. These include the following: the coursing stretch involved was extensively drained prior to the meeting and this, combined with the very dry weather in February, resulted in the running surface being very "fast"; because of the mild, unseasonable weather there has been unprecedented grass growth leading up to the fixture and the presence of a drain at the end of the coursing field caused some of the hares to be drowned.
The sub-committee in its report sets out a number of very specific measures which it has decided upon for future Irish cup meetings to eliminate the possibility of such a high mortality rate. These include reducing the length of the field by 200 yards, thereby eliminating the drain; curtailing the programme, thereby reducing the number of courses from 162 to 109; reducing the size of the hare paddock to a more manageable size of one and a half to two acres and stricter and more regular veterinary inspection of the hares and formal reporting.
An action programme for all future coursing meetings was also recommended. This would involve: the maximum number of courses per day to be reduced from 88 to 72; formal veterinary involvement with all clubs prior to and during meetings; mandatory post mortems and persons of proven knowledge and experience of hares to be employed to inspect hare stocks of all clubs prior to coursing.
These measures in themselves are not enough and I am of the view that a suitable muzzle must be developed which will have due regard to the welfare of the hares and the dogs and will serve to eliminate entirely any cruelty, especially the "kill", from this sport. I believe effective control and stringent supervisory measures which will have statutory backing and the introduction, at the earliest possible date, of mandatory muzzling of all greyhounds participating in coursing will be widely accepted. Research work on the development of a suitable muzzle is already well advanced and I am satisfied that progress on that front is sufficient to allow for the use of muzzles during the next coursing season.
I referred earlier to the June 1992 report of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Commercial State-sponsored Bodies. I would remind the House again that the activities of Bord na gCon, the greyhound industry and the legislation governing it were the subject of a fairly lengthy review by that committee last year. It also examined the coursing question and heard evidence from Bord na gCon, greyhound owners and breeders, the Irish Coursing Club and the Irish Council against Blood Sports. The organisation named the Campaign for the Abolition of Cruel Sports also submitted its views. The committee did not, however, recommend a ban on hare coursing. It recommended that there should be no statutory link between Bord na gCon and the ICC. It also suggested that ICC revenue from greyhound registrations should not exceed what is necessary to fund the cost of maintaining the greyhound stud book. The maintenance of the stud book is, of course, currently the function of the ICC. The committee went on to say that in effect the thrust of its proposals was that the ICC should become an independent self-regulating body.
It also recommended that the requirement that greyhound owners should be members of coursing clubs in order to become eligible to register a greyhound should cease. I can accept this latter recommendation and I am aware that the ICC is considering how to accommodate it. However, I do not agree that the ICC should be self-regulating.
The activity of coursing must be controlled and I believe the State must provide for that control. I agree that coursing must be self-financing and the State should not provide any assistance or, indeed, allow any organisation operating a stud book for the wider industry to use profits from greyhound registrations to fund coursing activities. I can assure the House that the draft Bill which I plan to introduce next term will deal with these matters.
I do not wish to be seen to be overcritical of the ICC. One area which was not covered sufficiently in the Oireachtas committee's report, and which may not be fully appreciated by the public at large, is the history of the role of the ICC and the major contribution it has made down the years to the greyhound industry. While its title is the Irish Coursing Club this does not, in any fair way, reflect its full role in the industry. The ICC regulated greyhound racing in the Thirty-two Counties of Ireland from the foundation of the club in 1916 up until Bord na gCon was established in 1958. It has compiled and published annually the stud book for pedigree greyhounds since 1923 and the integrity of the stud book is recognised worldwide. The club has perfected the system of greyhound identification and was the first to introduce DNA bloodtyping on a fully computerised register. Greyhound owners and breeders will appreciate the essential nature of this service to the greyhound breeding and racing industry.
The ICC has also been publishing the industry's weekly greyhound newspaper the Sporting Press since 1928. This paper is recognised as the official organ of the greyhound industry. It gives valuable news and information to greyhound owners and breeders on racing events, results, sales, stud dog services and reviews on developments in the industry generally. It has been through the ICC, its provincial committees, local clubs, and so on that many policy ideas for the breeding and racing sectors were first mooted. Since 1958 the ICC is still the controlling authority for greyhound racing in Northern Ireland. Coursing is still run on a 32-county basis and it is one activity where there are very strong links with Northern Ireland. There is always, I understand, great support for coursing events in the South from supporters in the North and this support extends across the political divide in the North.
I would like to refer again to the immediate matter under consideration, that is Deputy Gregory's Bill. The Minister of State, Deputy O'Shea, last week referred to a number of technical defects in this Bill. I can appreciate the circumstances that gave rise to Deputy Gregory's wish to enact a law that would ban hare coursing. However, I would be anything but confident that that would, in fact, be the effect of the Bill before us if it were to be adopted. I do not propose to outline in detail the defects in the Bill as I consider that Deputy O'Shea did so sufficiently well last week. However, I am anxious to point out and to clarify for the information of Deputies that there are in fact three Acts dealing with this subject: the Protection of Animals Acts, 1911 and 1965, the Wildlife Act, 1976, and the Greyhound Industry Act, 1958.
The Wildlife Bill, 1993, does not amend the various sections of the Protection of Animals Acts which exempt coursing from its general provisions dealing with animal cruelty some of which I outlined earlier to the House. Neither does the Bill deal with all of the sections of the Wildlife Act which refer to coursing and in particular it leaves sections 34 and 45 intact. It also leaves unaltered certain parts of the Greyhound Industry Act, 1958, which makes reference to the rules of the ICC and its duties — provisions which should be reviewed if coursing is to be outlawed. Also I am not sure that the Minister could have the right to amend unilaterally the constitution of a private organisation. I consider that these matters are legal points and in order not to create any confusion in our legislation or to include provisions that would be anomalous all of these matters would need very close legal scrutiny.
I hope, despite the reservations I have outlined about the technical aspects of this Bill, that Deputy Gregory will appreciate that I concentrated today on the major issues involved in the coursing debate and that I have persuaded him of the correctness of my proposals regarding this somewhat sensitive issue.
There will be no delay in introducing changes as I now have Government agreement for the drafting of a Bill to amend the Greyhound Industry Act, 1958, in fact, the drafting has commenced.
The new Bill will include provision to empower Bord na gCon to license the holding of all coursing meetings, subject to strict conditions which will have to be agreed by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry. These conditions will include limits on the length of each course, veterinary supervision of hares prior to all meetings, veterinary presence at all meetings, supervision of the release of hares into the wild after meetings and, following a trial period, the muzzling of all greyhounds in enclosed coursing. The object of these controls will be to prevent cruelty and eliminate the kill. The Minister will be required to monitor the operation of coursing and report to the Oireachtas on the results of the monitoring.
In the new legislation Bord na gCon will also be assigned responsibility for the breeding and registration of greyhounds but will be empowered to contract this task, or part thereof, subject to conditions to be attached to the relevant licence, to an outside agency. I believe that my proposals are reasonable; that they are in the best interests of the industry; and that at the same time they will be successful in removing the unacceptable elements to which all speakers referred. I wish to refer to the reasonable and responsible contributions made by Members who emphasised that cruelty and killing of hares is an unacceptable element of coursing. I propose to remove those unacceptable elements of this ancient sport. I wish to share the remainder of my time with my colleagues, Deputies Flood and Tom Foxe.
I am sure that is satisfactory but the time is rather limited. Is that agreed? Agreed.
I warmly congratulate my colleague, Deputy Gregory, for bringing forward this Bill because he has given all of us the opportunity to debate the issue of live hare coursing in an open and frank manner, perhaps in a way they has never happened previously either inside or outside this House.
I listened very carefully to the many contributions but I have not yet been convinced by the various arguments that live hare coursing should be allowed to continue. I accept that those who call for the continuation of live hare coursing believe fully in their point of view and are genuinely convinced that their position is correct. They are entitled to their viewpoint but I do not share it.
My opposition to live hare coursing has not arisen recently and I have long been opposed to a practice that I believe should have no place in modern Ireland. We have heard very strong arguments in the course of the debate as to why the "so-called sport" should be allowed to continue in its present format. The economic argument, in particular, was highlighted as was the argument that coursing, both park and open, is an ancient Irish sport that has been enjoyed since pre-Christian times. I cannot accept that it is right that the practice of live hare coursing should continue with its inevitable cruelty to hares on the basis that it has been around for a long time or because we derive an economic benefit from it.
Those who oppose live hare coursing offer an alternative form of coursing, which is pursued in other countries which previously had an established tradition of live hare coursing. Other countries have ended the practice of live hare coursing and substituted a mechanical device for the live hare and surely it is not beyond the ability of the Irish Coursing Club to follow what has already been done in countries such as Australia and Germany. My information is that coursing with a mechanical lure continues to flourish. A coursing meeting in those countries is presented as an occasion for a family outing, drawing support from all sections of society and of course, there is never any element of cruelty at them. I fully understand that the object of live hare coursing is not to kill the hare but to pit dog against dog. However, according to the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry, Deputy Brian O'Shea, approximately one hare in every ten courses is killed. I understand that a fraction less than six hares on average per meeting are killed. This is totally unacceptable.
Many of those who support live hare coursing make the point that hares are very carefully screened and looked after in preparation for a course. The hares are captured in the wild and are kept in an enclosure for some weeks before a coursing meeting. This is a contradiction in itself, because if you take the hare out of its natural environment and put it into an enclosure then obviously it is already at a major disadvantage and it cannot be correctly argued that in these circumstances the hare is better off than it would be were it to remain in the wild. The very fact that it is kept in an enclosure, which is unnatural for the hare and its survival instinct, means that its ability to survive the chase by the greyhounds is seriously impaired and obviously that gives rise to the fact that slightly less than six per meeting are killed by the greyhounds.
To anyone with any knowledge of what goes on, the destruction of the hare when caught at the coursing meeting by the greyhound is cruel and extremely painful. I disagree very strongly with Deputy Alan Dukes, who talked about not looking at the world through the eyes of an animal. All you have to do is to listen to the manner in which the hare dies.
Those who organise hare coursing know full well that to the vast majority of Irish people live hare coursing is unacceptable and basically, that is the reason television cameras and photographers are not allowed in. There is very little pictorial coverage of live hare coursing. If those images were presented they would undoubtedly encourage people in far greater numbers to be more vociferous in their opposition to live hare coursing. Therefore the challenge to those involved in hare coursing, if they want it to survive, must be to implement new ways of ensuring that coursing will survive without the element of cruelty, which undoubtedly arises despite the best efforts of the best run coursing meets in this country.
I am convinced that coursing, where the live hare is used, will gradually diminish and die and, perhaps, even the entire so-called "sport" will disappear from this country if those who organise coursing meetings do not take advantage of the technology available which no longer requires the use of live hares in coursing. This technology has been proved in other countries. If they meet that challenge then all of us will support them in developing the industry, but they must remove the element of live hare coursing.
I thank the Minister for his generosity in sharing his time with us and I compliment Deputy Gregory on introducing this Bill. I am completely opposed to cruelty of any form to animals. Unlike bull fighting, where the aim is to kill the bull, the aim in hare coursing is not to kill the hare. The objective is to course two dogs against each other and from that to choose a winner.
There are 92 coursing clubs in the country embracing the 32 counties. Approximately two-thirds of those clubs run two day coursing meetings, one-third run one day meetings and one or two clubs hold three day meetings. There are 25,000 pups born in the country, 20,000 of which are registered and named and about 10,000 are exported, mainly to England but also to Australia and the United States. The export of those greyhounds is worth in the order of £6 million to the coursing industry. The total greyhounds industry is worth approximately £60 million to the national economy. When we bear in mind that 300,000 people are unemployed we should not lightly scoff at an industry which is responsible for floating £60 million in the economy.
We were informed the other evening that because of hare coursing in here Irish dogs are not allowed on certain American tracks. That is not true. There is no state in the US where Irish dogs are barred because they are Irish. Incidentally, those people involved in breeding state clearly that it is the coursing bloodline in the greyhounds that makes the Irish dogs so attractive. The Australians and the Americans have discovered it, because they have come to realise that without the coursing strain their dogs tend to lose interest in coursing. For that reason we have more American and Australian breeders coming to Ireland to purchase our dogs for breeding purposes.
Every living thing in this world falls into one of two kingdoms: namely, the animal kingdom or the plant kingdom. With the exception of mankind, it is a case of the survival of the fittest. In the plant world broad leaves prevent the sunlight reaching the ground thereby killing any plants which may be growing underneath the shade and thus preventing other plants from growing. There are other cases——
I am sorry to interrupt the Deputy but I would now be grateful if he would bring his speech to a close.
If I may be permitted, I will give one example. At the last coursing meeting held in Roscommon on 26 and 27 December 1992 on the first day there were 72 courses and three hares were killed, on the second day there were 51 courses and five hares were killed. Out of a total of 123 courses, unfortunately, eight hares were killed, but that is not an excessive number. When the coursing was over, the surviving hares were taken and released approximately 100 miles from where they were captured.
I want to call another speaker.
This is something we tend to forget since it leads to hybrid figures.
With your permission, Sir, I wish to share my time with Deputies Teresa Ahearn, Flaherty, Shatter and Lowry.
I am sure that is satisfactory and agreed.
It is like the loaves and fishes.
So far in this debate we have heard both sides of the argument regarding hare coursing. The pro-coursing TDs laid emphasis on the traditional cultural and economic aspects of coursing. The TDs against coursing referred to the cruelty, suffering, blood lust and the clandestine nature of the sport. They want an outright ban. I believe it is not feasible to impose an outright ban on hare coursing for the reasons already outlined in his debate by several Deputies on all sides of the House. The arguments in favour of a ban were that the sport of hare coursing is long established as an integral part of Irish rural life and pastimes. Apart from the part it plays in the everyday pastimes of rural Ireland, coursing plays an important part in the economic life of rural communities. A study carried out in 1990 by a group of economists of the Department of Agricultural Economics of University College Dublin concluded that the value of coursing to the Irish economy is in excess of £14 million per year.
It is important to point out also that greyhound exports, a multi-million pound industry, benefits from coursing breeding. This is the principal reason Irish bred greyhounds are in such demand in England and more recently in the US and Australia. Coursing bloodlines were present in the pedigrees of 77 per cent of winners of major track events in England and Ireland in the last ten years.
On the other hand, the coursing fraternity will have to get their own house in order if the sport is to survive. There is major need for the imposition of strict statutory regulations to ensure that there will never be a repeat of this year's Irish Cup at Clounanna and other disasters of recent years. The Fine Gael Bill published this week would, in my opinion, ensure that all coursing meetings are properly run and that the number of "kills" would be reduced considerably. The Bill would provide a clear statutory basis for the regulation of the sport. It provides power for the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry by regulation, to lay down standards and procedures which must be observed. I will refer to aspects of the Bill later during the course of my contribution to this debate.
For the purpose of this debate I would like to refer to extracts from the report on the Hare Coursing Bill, 1975, by the Select Committee of the House of Commons published in 1976. This was one of the most extensive reports ever carried out into greyhound coursing. Regarding the supporters of coursing the report stated:
The Committee are fully convinced that those coursing people whom they met are not sadists but people who believe that they are engaged in a legitimate and controlled country sport.
During the course of this debate statements were made by some Deputies which implied that people were less human because they supported hare coursing. This is a very insensitive and unfair allegation and totally misinformed. The report states also that public opinion is increasingly opposed to coursing meetings. The Special Committee pointed out, however, that "if those canvassed by the antis are as ignorant of the facts as members of the Committee were before the inquiry the value of this statement must be considered debatable".
Whereas I do not doubt the sincerity of those TDs who are against coursing, nevertheless many of them are not familiar with the sport and are expressing opinions based on newspaper reports rather than personal experiences of the sport.
The Special Committee also stated:
It was generally agreed by all those giving evidence that hare shoots caused much more suffering than hare coursing. Nobody disagreed that the number of hares which die a lingering death after being wounded in a hare shoot is much larger than the number of those which are not killed instantly when caught by greyhounds, nor was it disputed that they suffered for a longer period.
There was no mention in this debate about shooting hares or indeed the snaring of hares, which is extremely cruel. If suffering and cruelty are the criteria for the abolition of hare coursing, surely it is unbalanced to concentrate the attack on coursing rather than on snaring and other methods of killing, which account for far more hares being killed and can be the cause of often prolonged acute distress and suffering.
It appears that in the case of opponents of hare coursing the highly publicised concern for the treatment of the hare is not matched by any apparent interest in the protection or conservation of the species. Thus, the report of the Scott Henderson Committee on Cruelty to Wild Animals stated:
Many of the opponents of field sports have gone so far as to tell us that they would welcome the extermination of a species if that were the only means of avoiding cruelty.
Hopefully this is not the position of those who are anti-coursing in the country. If it is, it is a very dangerous position. On the other hand, it is in the interest of the coursing fraternity to ensure the survival and conservation of our hare population. The Select Committee pointed out that "coursing is therefore to be welcomed from the point of view of the naturalist and conservationalist who can be assured of seeing hares where coursing is practised".
The Scott Henderson Committee on Cruelty to Wild Animals, referring to natural death, stated:
We are satisfied that hares that are not killed by man seldom reach old age and frequently meet a death as painful as that involved in a field sport and, while we do not accept this as a defence of field sports and other activities, we think it is an important consideration which should always be borne in mind.
All Deputies in this House are concerned about reducing the suffering of hares. The question is whether the suffering of the hare can be effectively diminished by this Bill or whether there are better ways of tackling the problem. The passing of this Bill would make an insignificant impact on the numbers of hares killed annually — only a quarter of 1 per cent of all hares killed are killed at coursing meetings. If this Bill was passed, coursing would still remain in unregulated forms — in these forms its purpose would be solely the taking and killing of the hare. I am convinced that the Fine Gael proposal and the proposals put forward by the Minister are the best solution. This would ensure that the hare mortality rate would be considerably reduced or eliminated at hare coursing meetings.
I would be the first to acknowledge that certain coursing meetings have been poorly run with scant respect being shown for the hare. The message from this debate is clear — the sporting fraternity must get their house in order if the sport is to survive. If killing the hare is irrelevant in competitive coursing then every effort must be made to ensure the hare will always have the advantage. I will go further and say that I believe no pair of dogs are a match for a good hare. Nature has equipped the hare with a number of very vital attributes but because of the short time available to me I am unable to state them here. Suffice to say that whereas a dog is well fed at all times and trained to be an effective running machine, the same is not true of the hare. That is why it is important that hares in captivity should be fed properly and receive proper supervision from veterinary surgeons, which is provided for in this Bill. There should also be a regulated slip of at least 150 yards which would eliminate much of the cruelty and carnage. The hare should be coached properly.
The provision of special muzzles must be considered immediately for coursing. These should be designed in such a way to protect the greyhound from injury and to prevent the killing of the hare.
Finally, I welcome this debate on hare coursing. An outright ban on the sport would be both inopportune and unworkable at this time. However, I hope the Irish Coursing Club will note this debate and take every measure possible to eliminate the killing of hares at coursing meetings.
In the short time at my disposal I wish to make three points. I want to dispel a myth which may emerge following this debate, that only those who support this Bill tonight are concerned about the well-being of animals. Many Members who will vote against this Bill were born and reared in the country and spent most of their lives surrounded by animals and in such communities cruelty to animals is not acceptable. Like many Members, I believe that there are many deficiencies in the way coursing meetings have been run. Nevertheless, to ban the sport at this stage would be a premature step. Strict standards and procedures must be laid down and they will be honoured by those involved in coursing. Having spoken to people involved in hare coursing in my constituency, I am aware that they are as anxious as we are to have stricter rules enforced to ensure that coursing as a sport has a better reputation.
I have witnessed enormous depths of emotion in this House while debating this issue. I look forward to the day when I will witness similar depths of emotion and passion when debating the violence and cruelty to women and children which is taking place not just occasionally but on a daily basis. Furthermore, we should not forget that more than 400 people are killed on our roads every year by drunk drivers. I will welcome the day when a Bill is introduced banning people who kill others because of drunken driving from driving for life. I hope this debate will improve the manner in which coursing meetings are run and give protection and security to the hare.
I welcome the opportunity of contributing to this debate. In regard to the comments of my colleague, Deputy Theresa Ahearn, I hope that when we have a debate in this House on any of the measures about which she spoke that a large number of Deputies will not oppose them.
From as early as 1982, shortly after my election to the Dáil, I have indicated my support for the banning of live hare coursing in correspondence with interested local individuals and national groups, because it is an indefensible and inhumane sport. I want to state my position at party level. I argued in support of a free vote in this case because there are varying views within my party on this issue, as is the case with most parties in the House. I do not wish to force my views on anyone and I freely understand that people from different cultural and geographical backgrounds can hold differing views in this regard. However, I hope to be given an opportunity to express my views freely on this occasion. That should be the case in respect of all parties on issues such as this.
This Bill was introduced by an Independent Deputy and, therefore, is suited to a free vote. I regret that my choices are limited to voting against the Bill, which I will not do, taking a back way out, which I do not propose to do either or voting against my party Whip. After 12 years in this House that is a significant step to take but, perhaps, after 12 years of compromising one gets tougher. I regret I will be voting against the majority of the Fine Gael Parliamentary Party, but it is in the best interests of Fine Gael, especially in Dublin, that some Members support the proposal to ban live hare coursing, a measure which would be supported by the majority of my constituents.
Although I am a Dubliner, my parents are from the west and south of the country and I spent many long months in rural spots. The suggestion that the loss of hare coursing will harm the quality of life in rural Ireland does a serious injustice to the many and varied entertainments and activities that go on there. In my long summers there I participated in a variety of activities that go to make up what I consider to be a much more essential part of rural life. I wish to put on record that I feel obliged to honour a commitment I have made to groups over a very long period indeed, although I regret that it involves, on this occasion, going against my own party's directive.
Over the years I have been among a small number of Deputies who have regularly raised wildlife issues in this House, even before environmentalism took off and it became fashionable to do so. Seal culling, badger baiting, other hunting, whaling, as well as hare coursing, have all been raised by me in this House since my election in June 1981. I have addressed many non-party political meetings on wildlife issues and corresponded with adults and children throughout the country on those issues.
I am not an extremist in these things. I just dislike senseless cruelty being inflicted on animals. I believe it is demeaning and dehumanising. Contrary to what has been said by some speakers in this House, I have no wish to stop people fishing or engaging in some other sports.
Live hare coursing is an issue on which my own personal views have been known for many years. For approximately five years I have been Honourary President of the Irish Council Against Blood Sports, and Deputy Gregory, who has sponsored this Bill in this House, is Honourary Vice-President of that organisation. I think it is largely through the work each of us has done in opposing hare coursing that we were given these honourary positions.
Consequently, it comes as no surprise to any Member of this House, either within or outside the Fine Gael Party, that I would like to see live coursing banned. There is no reason why those who promote live hare coursing could not end the cruelty involved in coursing by promoting drag coursing as an alternative. Drag coursing is practised currently in Australia and is growing in popularity there.
Hare coursing has always been a divisive issue within Fine Gael, as it has within the other major parties, Fianna Fáil, Labour and the Progressive Democrats. If the Democratic Left had not lost some of their members in the last election, it would also be divisive for them. Due to the divisions within the major parties on this issue, it has always been my belief that a Private Member's Bill to ban hare coursing would not succeed unless Deputies in all parties were allowed a free vote. I am sorry that is not happening tonight.
Over the past ten days I have watched a number of Deputies on all sides of the House sincerely expressing support for this Bill and then, in total subjugation to their party's Whip, explaining they cannot support it, and I ask myself why? Why should grown men and women be forced to behave in such an undignified and demeaning way? Why should they be forced on an issue such as this to let people down and add to the public's cynicism of politicians and of the workings of this House?
There is a need in this Parliament for us to grow up. There are fundamental issues of economic and social policy which require political parties to impose a party Whip to ensure a degree of political discipline and coherence. There are other issues to which the tyranny of the Whip or, indeed the protection of the Whip, should not apply.
These are issues which are never given priority by Government but in respect of which Deputies in each of the parties may hold strong, sincere and conflicting views. The fate of the nation does not depend on these issues. Live hare coursing is one such issue. Although I strongly believe hare coursing should be banned, I recognise that there are many more important issues with which the country is confronted and which need to be addressed.
If all the major parties allowed a free vote on issues such as this Governments would not fall, nor would political parties disintegrate. There would be no political cataclysm. The institutions of the State would not collapse. The removal of the Whip might also restore some of the general public's faith in politicians. Most people outside this House cannot understand Deputies who say one thing and vote for the opposite. We have heard much about muzzling dogs during this debate. It is time for us to remove the self-imposed political muzzles. It is time for us to allow Deputies of all parties to behave and act on occasion like legislators and not just as lobby-fodder. Unfortunately, I have been unsuccessful in persuading my party to allow a free vote on this issue as have other Deputies in the other major parties.
The vote tonight is not only about hare coursing. It is also about allowing the spirit of a new, modern Ireland permeate the politically cobwebbed walls of this House. An overwhelming majority of people outside this House support a ban on live hare coursing, yet their views are to be ignored.
Ireland is divided, but not by where one lives or on grounds of class. The old Ireland is the politics of the smoke-filled room at the back of a half-deserted public house. The new Ireland is the politics of free choice and personal responsibility.
It yearns for a compassionate responsible civilised view of itself. The old Ireland is the dark men in long coats; the new Ireland is kids buying compact discs recorded by their fellow Irish men and women. Some of these kids are now well into their forties — they are the Woodstock generation of the booming sixties.
It is these generations of the new Ireland who least understand the workings of this House and who have scant regard for the politicians who inhabit it. Have none of the Deputies considered why it is that so few urban people in their twenties, thirties and early forties have any interest in politics? Can they not see that Members of this House have turned their backs on whole generations, except at election time when through media hype and political soft sells they temporarily try to manipulate their support in the ballot box.
The new Ireland is predominantly peopled by those in urban and suburban life, people who are mobile, people who want better answers, people who have turned away from the politics of the knowing handshake, the pre-arranged holiday, the politics of nudge and wink.
Any party in this House who either fails to embrace or who abandons and deserts these new generations does so at its peril. Any party in this House who fails to reflect their aspirations not only by what it says but by what it does, is on the road to political extinction. Any party that so behaves may still remain on the political landscape for some time. However, the younger generations of Irish men and women will regard Stephen Speilberg's "Jurassic Park" as a more relevant location for such party's activities than this House or Government Buildings.
It is with great sadness that I find myself, this evening, at odds with a majority of my friends and colleagues in the Fine Gael Parliamentary Party. I am, however, grateful to the Leader of Fine Gael, Deputy John Bruton, and to the members of the parliamentary party for the understanding and consideration they have given to my position and to the position of others who have difficulty with the party's stance on this Bill.
I have been in this position on one previous occasion — in 1983 when together with a colleague, Monica Barnes, I voted against the proposed so-called Pro-Life Amendment to the Constitution. I believe that the events that followed after the passage of that legislation and its inclusion by referendum into our Constitution, have proved that we were right on that occasion.
While I regard hare coursing as an unacceptable and cruel activity, I recognise that the legislation involved here tonight addresses an issue that is not as serious nor viewed by the general public as being as serious as the issue which gave rise to difficulties for me in 1983.
My vote tonight is not simply a vote to express my support for Deputy Gregory's Bill. It is to some extent irrelevant whether I vote tonight in favour of the Bill or not. A Government majority has been whipped into this House to oppose the Bill and sadly the Bill will fall.
My vote tonight is a simple thing. It is about something unfashionable. It is about something that is not supposed to be a part of the armoury of today's mature politicians. It is about something not seen as politically cute. It is something long since abandoned by Government in this Dáil and not seen as relevant to its day to day workings. Put simply, it is about keeping faith with people with whom I have been in contact over the years and it is about fulfilling a promise.
This whole question of hare coursing has led to some very heated arguments. While this is to be welcomed, it is important that argument is conducted in a calm, tolerant and understanding manner. Regrettably, this has not always been the case with regard to the Bill before this House tonight. The heat has become so great that many Government Deputies who, in the past have vehemently expressed views against hare coursing, have chosen, or in many instances, have been directed to absent themselves from the debate tonight.
Both sides to this debate have argued the correctness of their cause with passion. When one looks objectively at the two lobbies, one finds some of the best and most respected citizens arguing the case on both sides of the House. This leads to the inevitable conclusion that the issue must be complicated when it can attract some of our best people to argue the case either way.
Looking at each group individually, the anti-coursing group has to be applauded for the professional manner in which it has arranged its campaign for its concern for animals and the elimination of cruelty in all its forms. Any human being who would not aspire to eliminate cruelty is lacking in basic humanity and kindness. However, one must also consider the coursing fraternity and to be fair to them, it is clear that they do not wish to see cruelty or condone killing. It is not the objective of their sport to kill hares but to race dogs. Unfortunately, it is true, however, that a small percentage of hares are killed in the conduct of their coursing activities. This clearly begs the question as to why a reasonable person with a humanitarian outlook should participate in this sport.
In his analysis of this question, my colleague, Deputy Dukes, last week referred to the origins of the human race and the critical part played therein by hunting. His argument merits considerable attention. All carnivores, including man himself, are hunters and killers. Man alone has evolved from his primitive origins as a hunter and killer to his present sophistication where he has only to go to the nearest supermarkets to get his supply of beef, mutton, pork and fowl without having to kill or watch the kill of these animals. We kill approximately two million cattle, three and a half million sheep, three million pigs, 50 million chickens and five million turkeys annually without a major clamour for alteration to our national diet. Unfortunately, the vast range of carnivorous animals has not evolved into a handout society like man, so each has to carry out its own hunting and killing to secure its daily balanced diet of flesh.
I do not need to elaborate that as part of our Creator's plan for the survival of thousands of species, some must be killed, often cruelly, and with much pain, to enable others to survive.
I applaud the advocates of the abolition of cruelty. However, in this imperfect world, it will be impossible to eliminate cruelty to animals. Nature has so ordained that cruelty is part of life and if we start to interfere with nature, where do we stop? Do we eliminate all foxes so that rabbits and hares can survive? Do we eliminate tigers and lions so that gazelles can survive? Hare coursing should not be looked at in isolation but against the backdrop of nature. In this context all sports involving animals and fish embrace some degree of cruelty yet they also give a great degree of pleasure to man. Some 300,000 people are actively engaged in field sports most of whom are family people who are not cruel or lacking in mercy or kindness. In addition, our natural habitat and environs assisted in the development of a tourist industry built on outdoor and country pursuits which has resulted in the creation of a large number of jobs. Bearing these points in mind, I am of the opinion that the vast body of reasonable people are entitled to their sport, but with the proviso that where possible cruelty should be minimised and all humane methods exercised to eliminate suffering and pain.
Throughout the course of this debate Fine Gael has tried to adopt a position of tolerance and understanding. We have listened to all sides of the argument and have not sought to influence the debate by outrageous stunts such as that introduced to the House last night by Deputy Sargent or concerted and pressurised campaigns. We attempted to introduce a reasoned amendment to the Bill introduced by Deputy Gregory, but it was ruled out of order. We published a Bill which to my mind takes a more moderate view of the whole subject and endeavours to ensure that by listening to both sides of the argument a more reasonable solution can be found. It is very much in the interest of all parties to look at ways and means of eliminating, where possible, the physical suffering caused by hare coursing. I have no doubt that a certain unanimity of views can be found among the pro and anti-coursing people with regard to the abolition of cruelty. Their opinions, together with the advice of conservationists and representatives of animal welfare societies, could go a long way to ensuring that cruelty in all its forms is minimised.
There is no doubt that the abolition of coursing would be a drastic and major step. To outlaw it could have even more harmful effects as by driving it underground there would be no supervision or control over the cruelty and killing aspects. It would be extremely unreasonable of this House to suddenly transform overnight a pastime into a criminal offence.
Bearing in mind my arguments regarding the laws of nature, the possibilities of eliminating cruelty and the merits of the economy of the coursing industry, the question this House must ask is whether the degree of suffering caused by the sport is such as would justify legislation to ban it. This House must come to the conclusion that banning is an incorrect approach.
Fine Gael examined the question of coursing and published a Bill to regulate the sport. As Deputies Deenihan and Dukes pointed out, the Bill attempted to deal with the problems through greater regulation, the creation of a task force to study various aspects of the industry and an imposed review period of regulations within two years. It is our belief that this approach represents a more reasonable way of treating and dealing with the problem. I am confident that provisions such as these would eliminate the suspicion which surrounds meetings, provide an independent and transparent form of regulation to coursing and rebuild confidence on all sides that a sporting pursuit enjoyed by thousands can be conducted without scandal or slur on the participants.
This topic has generated considerable debate both on the floor of this House and within political parties. It is unacceptable for a sporting pastime and pursuit of so many thousands of our people to become criminalised overnight. These are not simple and straightforward questions and the proposals of Fine Gael constitute a reasonable constructive approach to this issue and ones which we will be seeking to incorporate into any future legislation. We do not believe that an outright ban on coursing and the criminalising of participants is the correct course of action to take. With the majority of my party colleagues I will be opposing this Bill.
I wish to share my time with the Minister of State, Deputy Tom Kitt.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
I do not recall when there were such sustained attacks on any issue as has been mounted on coursing. It is little wonder that those actively involved in the promotion and running of coursing — their numbers run to thousands throughout the 32 counties — feel aggrieved and somewhat under siege. The Irish Coursing Club, and its affiliated clubs, have been subjected to a barrage of criticism and charges which must surely appall those not conversant with field sports and, in particular, those not versed in coursing.
Those vociferous, highly organised groups who oppose coursing — I do not for one moment deny their right to do so — have, in the view of many Members, gone too far. The content of some of the pamphlets distributed by anti-coursing activists, particularly those from outside this country, are outrageously inaccurate in the view of fair-minded people with no vested interest in the subject of hare coursing. The degree of professionalism displayed in the orchestration of letter-writing, nationally and internationally, to Members and the Irish media has been another characteristic of this campaign.
Members will certainly have welcomed the assurances given by a spokesperson for the Irish Council Against Blood Sports on a Marion Finucane radio show on 23 June, 1993 to the effect that his organisation disassociated itself from the campaign of violence against people and farm animals, bomb threats and such reprehensible tactics practised by what are obviously dangerous and irresponsible fringe groups. This House, and this State, gives no support to such actions or behaviour.
There would appear to be consensus in the House that a review of the operation of coursing is overdue. The initiatives taken by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry, Deputy Walsh, and his colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy O'Shea, must be heartily commended. Indeed, their approach in investigating the Clounanna meeting cannot have escaped the attention of all. The Irish Coursing Club, as the coursing controlling authority, from the outset supported and co-operated in this investigation which was intensive and wide-ranging. The unfortunate mortality rate at this meeting was a cause of deep concern to all sections of the greyhound industry as much as to all animal lovers. It certainly caused the members of the County Limerick club deep concern and anxiety in regard to what went wrong. The members of the County Limerick club, like all who participate in the sport, are people of status in the community.
I am sorry to interrupt the Deputy but I would ask him to bear with me for a moment. It has been reported to me that Deputy Sargent has something in his possession which may be of a disorderly nature such as occurred here last night.
Paper.
I wish to give a timely warning to the Deputy that I would consider anything by way of a repetition of last night's performance to be grossly disorderly.
They are only documents.
I welcome the Minister's report on the inquiry which he mentioned here tonight and I welcome also the proposals outlined by him, which I am sure will play a major part in ensuring that we do not have a recurrence of the most regrettable incident in Clounanna.
There is a real danger that in the midst of the charges levelled against coursing since Deputy Gregory's Bill came on stream the perception of the Irish Coursing Club and its subsidiary organisations will be badly, if not permanently, damaged. Should that occur it would be a travesty. The Irish Coursing Club, as the representative body of more than 10,000 owners and breeders in this country, is held in the highest regard in all countries where greyhound sports are operated. Its state of the art registration systems guarantee the integrity of the Irish greyhound breed and is the envy of all. The ICC's total dedication to the introduction of DNA blood typing and its efforts to foster many facets of the Irish greyhound industry have been highly successful. Its immensely successful introduction of the most stringent dope testing procedures at the major meetings gives the lie to the suggestion that coursing greyhounds are hyped up for that sport. Of its own accord and from its own finances the Irish Coursing Club has been operating and implementing over the past few years measures in the area of hare husbandry and hare preservation. This area has been dealt with by the totally voluntary Irish Coursing Club's executive committee, which is a 32-county organisation.
In addition, the Irish Coursing Club has the unique distinction of being accepted by all shades of opinion in Northern Ireland as the control authority for the sport of greyhound racing in that part of this island. I would suggest that this indicates on the part of Northern Ireland confidence in the impartiality, initiative and expertise of the club's secretariat.
I wish to point out the readiness with which the Irish Coursing Club has agreed to immediately pursue feasibility studies and muzzle experiments in relation to coursing. This indicates a readiness to meet the criticisms of this House and any shortcomings which may be perceived.
Like many distinguished Members of this House, I have had the pleasure of owning and racing greyhounds. It is a sport that is a part of the Irish way of life and I hope it continues to be such. I look forward to the Minister's proposals to help the sport develop. Indeed, with regard to the experiment of muzzling coursing greyhounds, I would like to put it on record that this is a measure which I have advocated for consideration over a period of years. I hold no brief for cruelty in coursing or any other sport, nor indeed does anybody involved in coursing. I wish to ensure that everything possible will be done to eliminate cruelty from the sport and I am sure this will have the full support of every Member of this House.
Deputy T. Kitt rose.
I regret that because of an Order of the House of this day it is too late to call the Minister of State, Deputy Tom Kitt. I must now call on Deputy Gregory.
I wish to thank all Members who have spoken in this debate on both sides and the media who gave coverage to the debate. I wish to thank also the many people who wrote to me from every part of the country and the many thousands of people who signed the harmless petitions that are in the possession of Deputy Sargent and which caused some concern earlier. They are merely petitions from citizens of the State in support of this Bill.
The Minister of State in his speech last Wednesday appealed for consensus on this issue. I would be very happy to reach a consensus agreement on how to make progress. However, in the context of a Second Stage debate, the only way to work towards consensus seems to be that the Government, while it cannot support my Bill, should be prepared to take the conciliatory step of simply not opposing the Bill on Second Stage.
I need hardly remind the Minister that what is at stake on Second Stage is the general principal of the Bill, which I see as a desire to change the law on live hare coursing. The Minister of State and I are in agreement that the law must be changed; but the Minister wants a change to muzzle the greyhounds whereas I want a change to drag coursing. If the general principle of the need for change or some kind is agreed, surely the Bill should not be opposed on Second Stage. If the Minister of State genuinely wants consensus, which he stated, then I am offering him a means to work towards that end.
I would prefer not to enter into argument on the detail of my Bill; that is, as we know, the function of Committee Stage. However, since the Minister of State chose to put such emphasis on what he sees as technical flaws in the Bill, I feel I must respond if only to set the record straight.
My Bill seeks to amend the Greyhound Industry Act, 1958 and the Wildlife Act, 1976. The Minister argued in his speech that it would be more appropriate to amend the Protection of Animals Acts of 1911 and 1965. This is the first and, as far as I can gather, the fundamental flaw, according to the Minister.
I now wish to quote the Official Report of 21 May 1992, column 156, where the then Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Noel Treacy, stated:
Coursing is regulated under the Greyhound Industry Act, 1958, which is under the aegis of the Department of Agriculture and Food.
Any decision by the Legislature to abolish hare coursing should appropriately be made in the context of the Greyhound Industry Act, 1958.
I would remind the Minister that my Bill specifically seeks to amend the Greyhound Industry Act, 1958, along with the Wildlife Act, 1976. I am following the explicit advice given in the Dáil record as to the appropriate Act to amend.
If that is not sufficient, may I quote from a letter dated 25 March, 1993 from Deputy Noel Dempsey, Government Chief Whip to the Taoiseach:
Dear Taoiseach,
The position is that the Greyhound Industry Act, 1958, which is administered by the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry, established the Irish Coursing Club, and invested it with powers to regulate and control hare coursing. Any proposals to abolish hare coursing would, therefore, be considered in the context of this Act.
I would ask the Minister: who is fooling who? Can I suggest to the Minister that this conflict of evidence is a very serious flaw in the Minister's attempt to discredit my Bill. Indeed, I would go further and suggest that to say on Second Stage that a Bill is flawed is really just the last refuge of the scoundrel and has been used over the past week by various Labour Party Members as an excuse for their own hypocrisy. Having given unequivocal commitments that they would abolish live hare coursing, they are now intent on voting against a Bill that would do just that.
I must admit to being a little puzzled by what seems to me to be two quite conflicting statements in the Minister's speech where he stated:
I believe that these flaws are such that if it were enacted it would not succeed in achieving its aim.
The Minister went on to say:
Any discretion to the authorities to allow a limited form of coursing would be removed. If the Bill were successful it would, for example, outlaw the muzzling of greyhounds for coursing purposes.
It seems to me that the Minister's problem with the Bill is that it would achieve what I want it to achieve, but does not do what the Minister wants. That is its real flaw. It seems fairly evident to me that the reason the Labour-Fianna Fáil Government is opposing this Bill is quite simply because the Government does not have the courage to bring real change into an area that has been crying out for it for a long time. The Minister said that the timing of this Bill was "unfortunate"— I assume he meant for the Government; it is certainly not unfortunate for the defenceless victims of coursing.
Deputy Shatter, I and others have been raising this issue for well over ten years now and nothing at all was done. Now we get the half-hearted panic efforts to "develop" a muzzle and run a few trials in the next coursing season. We are told that muzzling will be introduced at the earliest possible date, after a trial period. If this means anything, it is that the torture and killing of hares in the cruel sadistic ways of the Irish Coursing Club will continue unabated, apart from a few muzzle trials. Those of my colleagues in the "party of change" who gave written commitments of their unequivocal opposition to such cruelty are quite content with this. I cannot come to terms with such hypocrisy. I can accept a difference of opinion, or even hard compromises, on policy positions; but this issue of horrific cruelty to a small and gentle animal goes much deeper than a lot of what we debate and differ on in this House.
Those Members of Dáil Éireann who wrote and spoke so passionately in the past and now refuse to take a stand must be very proud. When the next coursing season starts I hope they attend and see what they made possible by their vote tonight. Even if muzzling of all greyhounds was to be introduced now, it would not be an acceptable solution, for many reasons. It would not eliminate the "kill". The terror that coursing involves for the hare will continue and many of the terrified little creatures will die of fright.
The ISPCA points out that "cruelty begins with hares being injured during netting". Apart from the fear and terror it involves for the hare, many hares break legs while struggling to free themselves from the nets and are left with festering wounds to die in the wild. Those who are captured are penned together in small enclosures where some die from stress and disease. Hares are timid, solitary creatures who suffer fear and terror in captivity. They are delicate animals and close proximity to their own kind often leads to the spread of infection. As long as live hare coursing is permitted under the law, whether dogs are muzzled or not, it will lead to and indeed facilitate horrific abuses, the worst of which is what is called "blooding".
How can the welfare of animals be entrusted to people who have for decades regarded as sport and obtained enjoyment from the mutilation, terrorising and killing of inoffensive and defenceless animals? It is simply incomprehensible and there is no point in ignoring the truth. People who "blood" dogs, who re-course hares again and again, who use sick and weak hares, simply do not know the meaning of animal welfare, whether they care for their greyhounds or not.
The main reason we are debating this issue here tonight is because some of these people have disgraced themselves over and over again. When I spoke last week I listed several of the most blatant and public of the scandals they allowed to happen. Virtually all of those scandals were not made public by the Irish Coursing Club. Most of them were brought to our attention by observers of the Irish Council Against Blood Sports. If those observers had not been there those obscenities would have been covered up, just as so much else is swept under a very dirty carpet.
If the Irish Coursing Club cared at all about the issues raised here, would they have waited for the public humiliation of seeing Dáil Éireann being forced to act, forced to curtail the excesses and muzzle dogs? Everyone here knows the answer to that question. Ireland's reputation as a civilised country is at stake. Animal welfare organisations around the world are waiting for the outcome of this debate. What are they to hear — that Ireland does not kill animals for fun any more? Ireland just terrifies and tortures animals for entertainment.
I appeal again to the Minister to suspend all coursing activities for the coming season and examine in detail the possibility of introducing drag-coursing. I am convinced that this would help consolidate the whole coursing and greyhound industry, enhance its image and reputation and give the industry a new lease of life.
If this Bill is voted down tonight it will not dissuade me from pursuing this issue. I intend to take this case to the Council of Europe. The Council of Europe has stated that it will "endeavour to ensure that animals are treated in a way that does not inflict on them any avoidable pain, suffering, distress or lasting harm".
As a representative of Dáil Éireann on the Council of Europe, I will, along with the ISPCA and the Irish Council Against Blood Sports, pursue this matter there. I regret having to do so because I believe our reputation as a modern state will suffer significantly.
Deputy Alan Dukes quoted from what he said was a House of Commons Select Committee — as did Deputy Deenihan tonight — which he said put my remarks in perspective; but he gave no source. He was in fact quoting from a 1976 House of Lords Select Committee set up specifically to delay the decision of the House of Commons, which by a majority of 111 had voted to outlaw hare coursing, That puts in perspective Deputy Dukes' remarks. Deputy Dukes suggested that my reasoning was excessively anthropomorphic, which he interpreted as attempting to view the world of animals through the eyes of a human person. However, my understanding of anthropomorphism is to attribute to animals the characteristics of humans, something I did not imply in any way. Peter Singer, the Australian philosopher, who in 1976 published a book on Animal Liberation, concluded that what is important is the capacity to suffer, which he argued is self-evidently present in both animals and humans.
The Minister of State in his speech listed the usual reasons why he could not ban hare coursing. I was a little taken aback because it is only a few years since the Minister, acting as one of Tramore's town commissioners, mandated fellow commissioners at the 1988 Association of Municipal Authorities to put forward Motion No. 144 —"That the Minister be asked to make enclosed hare coursing illegal". Now, however, he is the Minister of State and he says that coursing is at the heart of an important indigenous industry and, if it were banned, the quality of the track dog would suffer, our exports would suffer and money would be lost to the economy. In view of what Deputy Kemmy told us last night about Labour Party policy, how any Labour Minister could accept this poisoned chalice is beyond me.
For those who, like the Minister, are more practical than I am and worry instead about the value of coursing to the economy, I can only ask: how much is the international reputation of Ireland worth? How much will we lose in tourism revenue when the World Society for the Protection of Animals takes action? For me the essential question is: what price does the Minister and this House put on cruelty to a defenceless animal?
I thank the members of the Progressive Democrats, Fine Gael, the Democratic Left, the Green Party and my fellow Independent colleague who intend to support the Bill. An ideal opportunity to demonstrate the maturity of this House has been lost by the refusal of the main parties to allow a free vote on this issue. It would have been an excellent exercise in democracy to see what the outcome would have been. Although I am looking for change in a modern Ireland, I will quote briefly from St. Thomas More who wrote in 1534:
thou shouldest rather be moved with pity to see a silly innocent hare murdered of a dog: the weak of the stronger, the fearful of the fierce, the innocent of the cruel and unmerciful. Therefore all this exercise of hunting, as a thing unworthy to be used of free men.
I am required at this point to put the question: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
Votáil.
Will Deputies who are claiming a division please rise in their places? As more than ten Members have risen in their places, the division will proceed.
Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 16; Níl, 104.
Tá
- De Rossa, Proinsias.
- Flaherty, Mary.
- Fox, Johnny.
- Gilmore, Eamon.
- Gregory, Tony.
- Harney, Mary.
- Keogh, Helen.
- McDowell, Michael.
- McGahon, Brendan.
- McManus, Liz.
- O'Donnell, Liz.
- O'Malley, Desmond J.
- Quill, Máirín.
- Rabbitte, Pat.
- Sargent, Trevor.
- Shatter, Alan.
Níl
- Ahearn, Theresa.
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Ahern, Michael.
- Andrews, David.
- Aylward, Liam.
- Barrett, Seán.
- Bhamjee, Moosajee.
- Boylan, Andrew.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Bhreathnach, Niamh.
- Bree, Declan.
- Broughan, Tommy.
- Coughlan, Mary.
- Cox, Pat.
- Crawford, Seymour.
- Creed, Michael.
- Currie, Austin.
- Davern, Noel.
- Deasy, Austin.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- de Valera, Síle.
- Doherty, Seán.
- Doyle, Avril.
- Dukes, Alan M.
- Ellis, John.
- Ferris, Michael.
- Finucane, Michael.
- Fitzgerald, Brian.
- Fitzgerald, Eithne.
- Fitzgerald, Frances.
- Fitzgerald, Liam.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Flood, Chris.
- Foley, Denis.
- Foxe, Tom.
- Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
- Gallagher, Pat.
- Haughey, Seán.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Hughes, Séamus.
- Hyland, Liam.
- Jacob, Joe.
- Kemmy, Jim.
- Kenny, Seán.
- Killeen, Tony.
- Kitt, Tom.
- Lawlor, Liam.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Leonard, Jimmy.
- Lowry, Michael.
- Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
- Browne, John (Wexford).
- Bruton, John.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Burke, Liam.
- Byrne, Hugh.
- Callely, Ivor.
- Carey, Donal.
- Clohessy, Peadar.
- Collins, Gerard.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Costello, Joe.
- McCormack, Pádraic.
- McCreevy, Charlie.
- McDaid, James.
- McDowell, Derek.
- McGrath, Paul.
- Mitchell, Jim.
- Moffatt, Tom.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Morley, P. J.
- Mulvihill, John.
- Nealon, Ted.
- Noonan, Michael (Limerick West).
- Ó Cuív, Éamon.
- O'Dea, Willie.
- O'Donoghue, John.
- O'Keeffe, Batt.
- O'Keeffe, Ned.
- O'Leary, John.
- O'Shea, Brian.
- O'Sullivan, Gerry.
- O'Sullivan, Toddy.
- Owen, Nora.
- Penrose, William.
- Ryan, Eoin.
- Ryan, John.
- Ryan, Seán.
- Sheehan, P. J.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Spring, Dick.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Taylor, Mervyn.
- Timmins, Godfrey.
- Treacy, Noel.
- Upton, Pat.
- Wallace, Dan.
- Wallace, Mary.
- Walsh, Eamon.
- Walsh, Joe.
- Yates, Ivan.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Rabbitte and Keogh; Níl, Deputies Dempsey and Ferris.
Question declared lost.