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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 8 Jul 1993

Vol. 433 No. 7

Irish Aviation Authority Bill, 1993: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time".

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I do not know if any Member has referred to Ronald Reagan but, as I remember it, he made his reputation of being a tough cookie when, as President he not only sacked but replaced the US air traffic controllers. Thereafter all other sectors of the American public service were in awe of the said Mr. Reagan.

This Bill does not seek to do anything so draconian, but nevertheless leaves many questions unanswered. I should like the Minister to be more specific in his reply than he was in his introduction. It is unprecedented for people who are being transferred from the Civil Service to a semi-State body not to be guaranteed continuity of employment or pension rights. It seems extraordinary that a Government, a large segment of which is made up of the Labour Party, would agree to a proposal which does not guarantee continuity of employment or pension rights. This matter needs to be clarified. As I understand from the Minister's statement, the 580 staff of ANSO will continue to be civil servants until 1 January next and their employment will not be guaranteed after that. I would greatly appreciate if the Minister could clarify that aspect of the Bill.

It is not normal for safety and air traffic control to be made the responsibility of one body. They are generally regarded as two separate items and have two separate controlling bodies. That is the norm in western Europe and throughout the world. There has to be a good reason for keeping these functions separate. For example, it may not be desirable to have these two entirely different concepts amalgamated under the one body. Will the Minister explain why these functions are being amalgamated rather than separated?

There is a great need for a civil aviation authority which will plan and co-ordinate air services throughout the State. The Shannon stop-over episode illustrated the need for this this type of co-ordination. I note that in the past few days the Cork airport authority sent out distress signals stating that the elimination of the Shannon stop-over will mean Shannon will get preferential treatment and subsidisation and Cork Airport will suffer as a result. I would like to think that all airports, like all citizens, would be treated equally. I am not here to plough a furrow for Shannon, in particular, but to raise the question of airports in general.

Can the Minister, as the representative of the Government, explain the distribution of the present tranche, that is the 1989-93 tranche of EC Structural Funds and why one regional airport is getting £12 million — I am referring specifically to Kerry Regional Airport — while the other regional airports are getting virtually nothing? Is it true that this airport is getting a subvention of £12 million from Europe and that regional airports, such as Waterford which is every bit as deserving and important in the aviation infrastructure of the country, is not getting any of this money? If this is true, how does the Minister explain it? Indeed, how can we explain it to our constituents? Is there gross favouritism to certain Ministers' constituencies and gross discrimination against certain constituencies, such as mine which does not have a senior Government Minister?

It would be alarming to think that this country was being run on the basis of favouritism, bias or cronyism — as a former Fianna Fáil Taoiseach described certain appointments in this House. I would hate to think that favouritism of that kind was taking place. It would be alarming if this could not be explained logically. I do not believe there is a logical explanation, instead there is blatant favouritism.

It does not make sense that £12 million would go to Kerry Regional Airport and nothing to Waterford Regional Airport, Galway Regional Airport, the Castlefin Airport in Donegal, Sligo Airport or Castlebar Airport. I am aware that a Supplementary Estimate was passed in the House last week for £1.5 million to be used for promotional purposes for airports here. How will that money be distributed? I suspect that certain airports will get much more than others and, perhaps, Waterford will get the least of all although it is probably one of the most important, if not the most important, regional airport. Will the Minister give a breakdown of the figure setting out the exact amounts to be allocated to the different airports?

We could do a great deal for tourism in the south-east if the runway at Waterford Regional Airport was extended to accommodate passenger carrying jet aircraft. This would help generate employment as well as boost the tourist industry. Even if we were given only half the £12 million which was allocated to Kerry Regional Airport, we could generate a great deal of tourist activity. In addition to the extension of the runway we need to provide additional services such as proper access roads. There is a strong feeling that all airports, except one, are discriminated against. I make no apologies for making the case for Waterford Regional Airport. I hope that my constituency colleagues will support me in making that case. If the Government has to be embarrassed into admitting that it supports one airport at the expense of the others, because of political pressure that that should happen, we should be given an answer in this House.

Many questions remain to be answered. We were not given an explanation in the Minister's speech. The 580 staff must be uneasy about their future. They are entitled to know what will become of them: if they are to be retained or if there will be a rationalisation programme with considerable job shedding. Perhaps the Minister will satisfy us when replying to the debate.

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this Bill which comes at a time of crisis for the Irish aviation industry. The Minister could not have introduced the Bill at a more opportune time since, with the current crisis in Aer Lingus and the ongoing debate on the Shannon stop-over, air transport is on everybody's mind. To say that Irish aviation is going through turbulence at present is an understatement.

We must put the matter in context. Ireland is not unique as the aviation industry throughout the world is experiencing very trying and testing times. All airlines are facing difficulties. I hope the debate on this Bill will enlighten us about the Irish aviation industry. I welcome the establishment of an Irish Aviation Authority. The Authority will provide Irish air traffic control services as well as regulate Irish aviation standards. It will take over the Air Navigation Service Office, ANSO, which provides air traffic control at State airports and is also responsible for the licensing of pilots and the issuing of air worthiness certificates for Irish aircraft. ANSO employs almost 600 staff about half of whom are attached to stations in the Shannon area. These are mainly air traffic controllers, electronics engineers, radio officers, flight operators and air worthiness experts together with a small number of administrative staff. Irish safety standards apply to 500 aircraft on our national register; 2,000 licensed pilots; 3,000 certified aircraft maintenance personnel; 12 aircraft operating companies and 75 maintenance organisations. Of the 500 aircraft on the register more than 110 are large public transport aircraft. Approximately half of the fleet are comprised of GPA aircraft, most of which operate in countries spread across the globe from South America to Asia. Presently, there are more than 300 aircraft using Irish air space annually that must pay for the use of Irish facilities.

The proposed authority will operate as a commercial semi-State body. The former Air Navigation Service Office had a turnover of £40 million in 1992 with an operating surplus of £1.7 million. Taking these figures into account, we must improve our business prospects in the aviation field. The Authority must have a vigorous commercial profile to win overseas business in aviation training and consultancy services. In taking over ANSO the Irish Aviation Authority will be taking over a business with more than 80 per cent of its revenue, in excess of £36 million, coming from foreign airlines. Aer Lingus and Ryanair account for less than 10 per cent of the Authority's business, which is very small when compared with the contribution of other airlines. The Irish Aviation Authority will operate as a going concern from its inception. ANSO's charges for the use of Irish air space were among the lowest in Europe and one-third only of the charge in other north European countries.

I will deviate for a moment to refer to the current Aer Lingus crisis. I welcome the injection of £175 million capital to Aer Lingus. Recognition must be given to the Government contribution in trying to rescue Aer Lingus. We can compare that to the loss a number of years ago of Irish Shipping which was liquidated. Both were on a par because Aer Lingus is practically on its knees with a borrowing excess of £0.5 billion and a substantial interest bill. I understand that some banks are saying there is no further capital available to offer business on a day to day service. That is a frightening thought because I understand that a large conglomeration of banks, native and foreign, is financing the business. While banking personnel by and large are panicky and nervous they realise, at recessionary times in the aircraft industry as in every other industry, that it is important to stay with it. I understand that those involved in the present banking scene in relation to Aer Lingus realise they will be in very serious difficulty if the proposed plan is not put in place. I welcome the Government's endeavours in taking the matter in hand, proving that the problem can be ameliorated and that we can have an airline.

In the modern aviation scene while airlines have become very competitive and more and more space is available for passengers and cargo, Aer Lingus need a partner. I said this yesterday and I do not care who quotes me. At least ten years ago it was thought we should have a link up with Lufthansa, a German airline. More recently we have seen the very successful privatisation of British Airways, which proves that privatisation is the way forward. I fully support that concept. If we are to be successful in the semi-State sector, which has now developed fully, there will have to be more privatisation. A link with British Airways is the opportune way for Aer Lingus to proceed. We have only to look at our small number of airlines in comparison with it, it practically controls the skies. When we look at its service we can see there is no future for us unless we move in that direction. Many people may abhor what I have said but, in the commercial environment if we are not prepared to go down that road, in a few short years I foresee more difficulties in Aer Lingus.

I have never believed that the Shannon stop-over should have been compulsory. I believe it has caused much economic damage to the south east and to the south west of the country where I live. Millions of pounds have been spent on updating Cork Airport to category III status in the last number of years and we now have centre line lighting. Fog had been a problem, landings had to be made at other airports and sometimes flights had to return to London. That has all been overcome. If the south east and south west regions are to be developed we must have a transatlantic flight to Cork twice a week. We have to look at the economic value of this to the area. We can look to the mid west or SFADCo region where the transatlantic service is compulsory, where there has been a fair development of American industry and an increase in American visitors. I do not know any businessman who would fly Dublin-Shannon, Shannon-New York or Shannon-Chicago or Los Angeles because of the delays involved. It is ridiculous to take off at Dublin, land at Shannon and take off again a few hours later.

Last year business people — second generation Irish — from Oregon who used to fly from New York to Shannon flew from Washington to Manchester and came down to London. They took two weeks holidays in this country and four days in Britain which were lost to this country in terms of buying goods and touring the area. This would never have happened if there had been a direct service to Dublin where they wanted to go. Their travel agent abroad advised them of the consequences, delays and so on. There is a definite major loss to this country because of our parochial approach. Last January I made a statement to that effect and all hell broke loose. I am never afraid to make a statement or a challenge like my colleague, Deputy Deasy, who never fails to bite the bullet on any issue. I will never forget the number of letters and phone calls I received but the chickens have come home to roost and I have been proved right. I have criticised all Governments over the years who supported the Shannon stop-over, at a substantial cost to Aer Lingus, which has never been quantified. We never asked any business organisation to investigate the cost apart from the loss to industry, the loss of travel and so on.

I ask the Deputy to get back to the Bill.

I urge the Minister to commit the Government to upgrading the south east and south west regions at Farranfore and Waterford airports. I see Cork offering a feeder service to Waterford and Farranfore airports. We need a new aviation policy because of the present climate. A further Bill will have to be enacted to put the transatlantic routes in place following the completion of negotiations with American and other airlines. Cork Airport must get recognition as the gateway to the south east and to the US. That means further upgrading will be needed and perhaps a small capital requirement.

Cork Airport has shown it can operate in an effective and efficient manner. Cork has suffered the loss of potential industrial development because of the lack of transatlantic services. This airport would serve not only Cork but the Limerick and Kerry regions. The number of business people travelling has almost doubled in the past five years yet Cork gets only a small portion of this business. There has been much political posturing about Aer Lingus in the past few days. We watched some Deputies from other parties seeking media attention. Rather than vying for media coverage these Deputies should act in a responsible manner. Everyone realises that tough decisions must be taken to save Aer Lingus, without them we will not have an airline. We all welcome constructive criticism but crying wolf must stop.

I welcome the opportunity to say a few words on this Bill. It is a Bill on which I have some knowledge as I was involved in it during my brief term as Minister of State at the then Department of Tourism, Transport and Communications. It is good legislation. As other speakers said, there has been much discussion during the past few days on aviation matters. The crisis in Aer Lingus is very real and demands serious action if the future of our national airline is to be viable and long term. These decisions are not easy. It is inevitable that there will be disappointment and dismay, but at the end of the day we must be concerned with the overall future of Aer Lingus. That is of paramount importance.

In terms of my contribution I would like to move beyond the issue of Aer Lingus. There has already been much debate on its future and this debate will no doubt continue for the forseeable future. Instead I would like to focus on the broader issue of aviation policy itself.

The nature of aviation around the world is changing rapidly. The old order no longer pertains — we have already seen the collapse of Pan Am in America, once one of the most powerful airlines in the world. Liberalisation is shaking major aviation companies to their very foundations. This problem has been noticeable for a number of years. This has also been exacerbated in recent times and for the first six months of this year airlines around the world were digging into their cost base as never before.

Another important factor must be taken into account. Increasingly there is a movement towards the EC taking over competence in the area of air agreements rather than individual member states. It is also the stated intention of the United States to negotiate with the EC on air agreements rather than deal with individual member states. However, if that is to happen then we would be foregoing the flexibility that is necessary to deal with amendments to existing bilateral agreements with the US.

I am glad the Minister has stated that we are not prepared to do this and proposed that we take a hands-on approach to manage the necessary change rather than have a unilateral and abrupt change thrust on us. It is better that we have control of our negotiating destiny than accept what comes out of EC negotiations over which we have significantly less control. I hope there will be a response from the airlines here to do that because at one time it was proposed that Aer Lingus might fly to the west coast of America, but that did not take place. Translift Airways stepped in and are now serving that route successfully. Time is of the essence here and I am glad to note the Department will be starting this process of negotiations with the US authorities as a matter of urgency.

In such a volatile position anything can happen and the old law of business, adapt or die, comes into play. In order to survive and, ultimately, prosper, it is important to examine national aviation policy overall. It is evident from the Minister's statement that the Government has every intention of doing so. The last thing we can do in these circumstances is turn the clock back. Times have changed and we must change with them.

The last thing an aviation policy can afford to do is not evolve with and adapt to changing circumstances. We now live in a post-liberalisation era in Europe and elsewhere. The post war era which assured route exclusivity to national airlines is over. Predictable stability no longer exists. We are now faced with the challenge of ongoing change, an unavoidable fact of life. To pretend otherwise or to hanker back to some cosy past is an act of political folly. Opposition parties cannot pretend that this is not the new reality.

Liberalisation is inevitable. It is also a double edged sword. The negative aspect is that liberalisation means greater competition in our domestic market. There is, however, a positive aspect. It also offers us the opportunity to explore and exploit new international markets. The ultimate aim of any national aviation policy should be to gain access for Irish operators to as many international markets as possible and ensure that they can compete on a level pitch with competitors in other markets.

This applies not alone to air services but covers the whole spectrum of aviation activities in which Irish operators are involved. Regarding this latter point, the Bill under discussion is particularly relevant. I will refer to that in great detail later.

It is clear the Government has already made strenuous efforts in this regard. Its plans and policies for Irish aviation have already been unreservedly endorsed by both the Culliton and Moriarty committees. I have no doubt that these endorsements are due to the fact that such policies will bring significant benefits for Ireland, in terms of wealth and employment creation.

The Bill has an important role to play in the development of a national aviation policy. It sets out to establish the Irish Aviation Authority to provide Irish air traffic control services and regulate Irish aviation safety standards, which will take over from the Air Navigation Service Office, ANSO. This involves the transfer of 600 civil servants from the Department of Transport, Energy and Communications. At present ANSO provides air traffic control at the State airports and is responsible for licensing pilots and certifying the airworthiness of Irish aircraft. There are at present more than 300,000 aircraft movements in Irish airspace annually all of which must pay for the use of Irish facilities. It is clear that there will be a considerable weight of responsibility on the new authority.

However, the Irish Aviation Authority differs from its predecessor in significant respects. One of its prime objectives is to greatly improve the business prospects of the Irish aviation business. The new authority will have a vigorous commercial profile in order to win valuable overseas business in aviation training and consultancy services. This new body will have a £40 million turnover with highly trained staff and will be of significant benefit to the Exchequer in future years. The commercial benefit of the new authority is evident. Some Opposition Deputies may not realise that tremendous commercial benefits exists downstream.

The authority will operate to the highest safety standards. This confirms the Government's commitment to a strong, competitive and commercially vibrant aviation industry. In taking over the business of ANSO, the new Irish Aviation Authority will be taking over a business with more than 80 per cent of its revenues — approximately £36 million — coming from foreign airlines. For example, Aer Lingus and Ryanair account for less than 10 per cent of the authority's business.

A number of speakers yesterday were concerned about civil servants moving from a Civil Service status to the new authority. I welcome that move because it is important that there is continuity of staff in this field. This is a specialised area and the staff running the authority should have the expertise to do so. At present a civil servant can be transferred from one Department to another, but we do not want that in this case because modern technological advances and growth in air traffic need a staff trained in that area. From the air traffic controller down to the person filing up-to-date regulations and technical data, there must be continuity of staff and I am delighted that is to be the case.

In introducing this Bill, we are preparing the ground not only for a better air navigation service but also for one that is more efficient and responsive to the ever-changing demands of user airlines. All of this will be achieved without any undermining of the high standard of safety currently implemented by the Air Navigation Services Office.

Today Irish aviation is a large, diverse industrial sector, making a major contribution to the Irish economy, in terms of GNP activity and employment. Indeed, the industry is one which stretches from world class companies to small niche aircraft and airfield operators.

Fundamental to the success and continued development of Irish aviation are high safety and operating standards. Confidence in our safety and operating systems is the cornerstone on which the success of the aviation industry depends. As the industry expands, so too must our capacity to safely and efficiently manage and exploit our airspace. The purpose of this Bill is to set up an organisational structure which will continue to provide for safe management of our airspace and exploit opportunities to improve efficiency.

I know that the Air Navigation Services Office is well prepared to assume the responsibilities of a semi-State body, providing essential services for the Irish aviation sector. In recent years it has been developing its managerial and technical skills to a point at which its operation is as good as any of our European neighbours. In fact, on the technical side, following a five year national £30 million re-equipment programme, ANSO has state-of-the-art equipment and systems.

However, this does not mean that investment can cease. Most of the deficiencies in the air traffic system in the mid-eighties were direct consequences of low investment policies over previous years. This must not be let happen again. Removing ANSO from the restrictions of Exchequer funding will ensure that investment, to maintain and expand the capacity of our air traffic control system, can and will be made at the most appropriate time.

On this point I would like to mention the fact that, despite the congestion problems being experienced in Europe, delay resulting from deficiencies in Irish airspace is now a thing of the past. Ireland has set a high standard for other states to follow.

I would like to stress again the emphasis which we are placing on safety. It is extremely important that, with improved efficiency in air navigation services, the safety aspect is not undermined in any way.

Section 32 obliges the new company to report to the Minister on the technical and safety standards that it applies, and also provides for a technical and safety audit of the company every three years. This will ensure the safety priority in the new organisation.

Deputy Deasy referred to regional airports. I agree with him that Waterford is forgotten when funding for regional airports is being handed out. Deputy Deasy also mentioned jet aircraft. Due to improvements at Waterford Regional Airport a jet aircraft landed at the airport bringing in a party of golfers. That was the first movement of any jet in any regional airport in the country. However, there is a need for further funding.

The Bill has implications for regional airports. If my reading of it is correct section 43 proposes to charge regional airports for terminal services which were free or at a reduced charge up to now. Most of these airports are barely surviving and I wonder if these charges will be prohibitive in the future. These costs will ultimately be passed on to the consumer and damage the regional airports. Perhaps the Minister could use the power under section 45 to exempt regional airports from this charge.

I wonder also where air training schools fit in. An air training school in Cork closed down last year. At the moment there is an air training school operating in Waterford and I wonder if that will be affected in some way.

One key commercial objective that should be to the forefront of the new authority's activities is exploring and exploiting new markets for training and markets for specialised aviation consultancy projects. There is a depth of expertise and dedication in the Irish aviation sector that is second to none. This expertise can be put to effective use in seeking out these new markets and establishing the Irish Aviation Authority as a world leader in this important commercial area. Already important new markets have opened up in Asia and in Eastern Europe. The new authority should mount a marketing campaign in these areas as soon as possible with a view to promoting its skills and securing these valuable contracts.

There has been much pessimism in recent times concerning the future of Irish aviation. That is understandable given the nature of the crisis facing Aer Lingus and the job losses that this entails. However, I am concerned that amidst all this doom and gloom the good news regarding the establishment of this new authority will slip through the net. I hope that this will not be the case. The setting up of this authority marks an important strand of the Government's aviation policy. It offers the prospect of generating economic growth and, most importantly, of creating employment. It is one more step towards establishing a vibrant and commercial aviation policy and should be welcomed as such.

I wish to raise a concern about section 43 (3) (b), in regard to the Irish Meteorological Service. That service, the sole provider of meteorological services to the aviation industry, runs a network of 15 collecting and three distribution centres throughout the country. A very considerable portion of the cost of maintaining this network is derived from charges levied by the Civil Aviation Authority, currently ANSO and, under this Bill, to be the new IAA company.

The apportionment of the meteorological services' share of these funds is currently decided by the Minister and decisions relating to the amount, in the past, have been contentious. This revenue is obviously a vital part of the overall budget for the meteorological service and any negative changes in it would have a very profound effect on the capacity of this very small service. It has an annual cost of £9 million and a total staff of 350.

Concerns about this were raised with the Minister by members of staff in the Meteorological Service recently and it was their understanding that there was no intention at present to change the traditional relationship between the Meteorological Service and the aviation industry. However, to do that it will be necessary to amend section 43 (3) (b) to provide that it is the Minister and not the company who determines the charges in question. In this way we should remove the certain likelihood of endless wrangling between the IAA and the Minister over the cost of meteorological services. I would be obliged if the Minister would take that point on board.

I too am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this debate on a very important Bill. Aviation policy is not something that should be taken as an optional extra in this House or something to be sidelined. It should be a central policy of any Government. As a nation with a small population on the periphery of Europe, communications and transport are vitally important, a lifeline for us and as a gateway to the world. It is only right that we should plan our national aviation policy in a practical, intelligent way and look after our interests. That is the fundamental purpose of this Bill. If we do not look after our interests nobody else will. We have learned that the hard way. This is not a time for whimsical observations or for sentimentality or nostalgia. It is a time for cool, practical, clear-headed policy making by all parties in this House.

This issue should not be left just to the politicians because we have very few experts. There are many experts who can afterwards tell us what went wrong but in the past three years when Aer Lingus was going down the tubes there were very few people to say how to correct matters. Everybody could do that afterwards, including the economists who are very good at that. However, they are not so good at finding remedies when things are going wrong.

It is important for Deputies to reach a consensus and look after our interests throughout the world. We are a small country and Aer Lingus is a small player in a large, volatile, competitive aviation world. We should not forget about our achievements because it is also important to see where we have come from and what we have done when we are facing difficulties. It is important to stress the good times of Aer Lingus as well as the bad, to point to what the company achieved as a small carrier. We are all very proud of its record and achievements. However, we are living in a changing world and aviation is one of the fastest changing industries in that world. It is important, therefore, that Aer Lingus should catch up quickly and not be left behind.

Deputy Ned O'Keeffe is not noted as an aviation expert; his contributions in this House largely concern the agricultural sector. However, there is nothing wrong in him contributing to a debate on aviation because "Jack is certainly as good as his master". The Deputy is entitled to make his opinions known here. However, I was surprised at some of his observations. I was also surprised by his intervention in the debate on the Shannon status some time ago. I had a feeling that he was put up to it, that he did not prepare what he said, but was reading a script drafted by somebody else.

I do not think he understood the implications of what he was saying then, nor did he understand the implications of what he said today. He was put up to reading that script also today by somebody with a vested interest in the business. First, he promoted the concept of privatisation, irrespective of its merits or demerits. He has no factual information to support how privatisation would assist the aviation industry or bring success to Aer Lingus; the Deputy made that statement without any information to back it. He also proposed a link between Aer Lingus and British Airways. It is not good policy to make such statements without having undertaken the necessary groundwork and arguments to buttress such a case.

It is too early to make such a proposal. There are many players in the aviation world but none will consider investing in Aer Lingus until it is a viable company and has the appetite and desire to make its way in a hostile environment. Delta Airlines, which has a good record in aviation, had an interest in a joint venture with Aer Lingus some years ago, but did not pursue it because of Aer Lingus's financial plight. I do not favour Aer Lingus merging with British Airways, as proposed by Deputy O'Keeffe. Many airlines have gone to the wall, competing in the industry is like jungle warfare, the fittest survive. Some airlines have come on stream through such competition and have been successful. It may not be fashionable to mention Virgin Airlines but Mr. Branson's airine has had remarkable success in competing with British Airways in spite of the latter's dirty tricks policies. I would not favour a proposed merger or joint venture with any company. The future of Aer Lingus must be considered carefully. The aviation industry is a specialised one involving high costs. It is an industry on which we must have detailed discussions at national level. We have to deal with scarce resources and this must be taken into account by workers, trade unions, taxpayers and politicians. Our resources must be used carefully and efficiently in the national interest.

I could be pessimistic about the future of Shannon and the Shannon region but I am not because as a politician I must be optimistic, otherwise I would not remain in politics. We have encountered and overcome great difficulties in the past. We must have courage, be practical and have a vision for the future. Whingeing will get us nowhere. The Shannon region has much to offer to any investor. I am not referring just to Shannon Airport but to Plassey technological park, the University of Limerick and many local, national and multi-national industries located in Limerick and the mid-west region in the past three decades. I am hopeful that a world aviation park will be developed at Shannon Airport. Shannon aerospace developed successfully in times of recession. It is a good example of development at an airport and there is room for expansion in regard to Shannon aerospace.

It may not be fashionable to speak highly of GPA but I do not take any pleasure in seeing a company in difficulty. Its problems did not augur well for the Labour Party or the mid-west region. I was disappointed GPA made the mistake of delaying its public flotation on the stock market. With the benefit of hindsight, if it had floated its shares a year earlier it would have been successful and its standing in the past two years would have been different. Instead it took a wrong option, delayed its flotation and the story of its decline is well known. However, despite its mistake, there is hope for its future success. I am not a doleful prophet knocking GPA. I recognise its good work and intelligent work-force who have a great deal of practical experience in aircraft leasing, something about which many of us know nothing. It is a difficult and competitive field but many good people have been employed in that company and their expertise should be used in the interest of national aviation policy. I am pleased the company has survived and wish it well in the future. There is no reason it cannot continue to serve the Shannon and mid-west region.

Last night in my contribution on the Private Members' motion I stated that Dr. Brendan O'Regan, the founding father of Shannon Airport, is not pessimistic. He is prepared to let bygones be bygones in relation to the change in the status of Shannon Airport. He is also optimistic that Shannon Airport can survive and diversify and that its future will be as bright at its recent past. I take hope from Dr. O'Regan's view. He had great courage, like Sean Lemass, who developed the original Shannon concept. I hope there will be a new enhanced role for the Shannon development company to pull together a number of strands to work with Shannon aerospace, Shannon technological park, to develop a concept of a world aviation in Shannon and to link up with Dr. Walsh, the president of the University of Limerick. While I do not agree with Dr. Walsh's views on the status of Shannon Airport and other issues, I recognise the good values and standards he has imposed on the University of Limerick and the good practices he set in achieving standards of excellence, not only in the academic area but in the environment in Plassey. I hope links can be developed between the bodies to which I refer and that they will help in future plans for Shannon. Despite GPA having been discredited by its failure on the commercial market it could do good work in the Limerick region. All the groups to which I referred should be brought together. The task force established by the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications, Deputy Cowen, should be used efficiently. It should be augmented by inviting people who have more specialised knowledge than members of the task force to assist in projects to benefit the region. We should not retreat into a corner and be frightened, we should be optimistic and look to the future.

I am interested in Deputy Deasy's view on regional airports which are entitled to their place on the agenda. No one can foresee the change in aviation in the next decade. There must be a role for regional airports which can offer cheaper flights by providing transport in smaller aeroplanes and in that way providing more efficient carriers. The Deputy is right to question our policy on regional airports as it must be coherent in this area. One airport cannot be selected and promoted at the expense of others, that is not satisfactory. There must be some rationale in regard to policy and an objective approach in regard to developing regional airports. The Government must tell Deputies its plans for the development of regional airports. The Deputy referred to the figure of £12.5 million for Farranfore Airport. I passed that airport last Friday on the way to Castletownbere, when that figure came to mind. I have been embarrassed by reference to that figure at many meetings of Limerick City Council where people have tabled questions to discover my attitude in this regard. Deputy Deasy is entitled to raise that question and I would not favour a lobsided development in regard to regional airports. Decisions on such important issues cannot be made in a cloak and dagger way. I favour logical planning and investment in airports which will benefit the economy and, in turn, our people. I do not approve of narrow, hole in the corner measures. They are not satisfactory. The aviation industry is far too important to be handled in such a fashion. Aviation policies must be transparent and open. All Deputies should be aware of the Government's aviation policy, not alone in relation to our major airports of Dublin and Shannon but also in relation to Farranfore Airport, referred to by Deputy Deasy. I hope the Minister will respond to this point and that it can be referred to again.

I will not cry over spilt milk in regard to the status of Shannon Airport. We must be optimistic and courageous. It is time for vision and for planning our aviation policy with one objective, that is, in the interests of the people. We must utilise our scarce resources to obtain the maximum result for our people. Our aviation policy should help the return of industry to this country and attract tourists. If we could solve many of our problems, our tourist numbers would double overnight. Our image in relation to Northern Ireland is that of a troubled strife-torn country. Too many people here and throughout the world have a concept of Ireland as war torn, where people are being killed daily. If we can work towards a resolution of the Northern Ireland problem it would transform our economy.

I was amazed to hear the Minister for Defence, Deputy Andrews, say that our security costs amount to £133 million. If one adds to that the loss of industry and tourist revenue it is obvious that millions of pounds have been lost to our economy because of the image of Northern Ireland. We must double our efforts to achieve dialogue in this regard because, if there is dialogue between the parties, it may help to find a solution to the problem.

I am pleased to have this opportunity of contributing to the debate. I look forward to increased dialogue between the Government and the Opposition on this matter because we are now at a crossroads in relation to our aviation policy and must find the way forward. Only time will tell whether Aer Lingus will survive. Nobody knows that but the company is entitled to a fresh start and the best assistance we can give. I hope that all interests in the company, management, the workers and the Government can work together to ensure the survival of Aer Lingus in the hostile environment in which it must compete. Shannon also can diversify and make up for any losses that will follow from the changing of its status. There is no reason Shannon could not also survive.

We face many problems but we must sort them out ourselves. There is no panacea to helping us find the way forward. We must do this using our resources, intelligence and with the benefit of our experience. I hope that this area of aviation will help us to learn from our mistakes of the past and find a way forward in the future.

Debate adjourned.
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