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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 22 Jun 1994

Vol. 444 No. 2

Order of Business (Resumed).

I am sure the Chair will join with me in saying that this is a sad day for many workers and families in the Dublin area because while we speak layoff notices are being issued to hundreds of workers in TEAM Aer Lingus. Is the Government washing its hands completely of this matter or will the Taoiseach, even at this late stage, get both the Ministers for Enterprise and Employment and Transport, Energy and Communications, Deputies Quinn and Cowen, to meet with the workforce to see how discussions can be reopened to save 850 jobs, possibly 1,900——

The Chair finds it difficult to rule against such matters.

I appreciate that.

The Chair has feelings in this matter also but he has an obligation to uphold the business and procedures of the House. I ruled on the matter earlier. I advised Deputies so concerned to seek some other way of raising it. It cannot be raised now and any tendency towards debate now is completely out of order.

I do not wish to debate the matter. All I am doing is asking the Taoiseach if he would please get the Ministers——

The Deputy may not do so. It is not in order.

——to meet with the workforce to try to reopen negotiations.

If I do not hear something relevant on the Order of Business I will proceed to deal with the business proper.

The most important question we could ask today is about this matter.

The Deputy should find another way of raising the matter.

We have tried every avenue. We had a Special Notice Question——

There are still procedures open to Members to pursue this matter.

At this stage——

I cannot permit this to continue.

I am trying to explain that further debate and questioning of the Minister is irrelevant because it will not achieve anything.

The matter was discussed in extenso in the House in recent days.

I am asking the Taoiseach if he will respond to a request from the Opposition that both Ministers Quinn and Cowen meet the workforce.

The Deputy has made his point.

Will the Taoiseach respond?

The Taoiseach wants to answer.

Everyone in this House should ask the management and workers to come together and work out a viability plan for this company which is the only sensible and pragmatic way forward in which to save the jobs.

The Government is washing its hands of the matter.

The Government represents the shareholders.

I have made my position clear.

There is £65 million of taxpayers money already invested in this company.

It could be a viable business.

The Deputy must resume his seat and may not ignore the Chair.

Not only will we lose jobs but a considerable amount of money.

I am sure the Taoiseach is aware that the Deputy who sits on his left was a strong advocate of the interventionist theory in matters of this kind. He should put the theory into practice. Does the Government propose to bring forward legislation to establish a third banking force before the recess?

There will be nothing brought forward in this session.

(Interruptions.)

What the Taoiseach said regarding TEAM Aer Lingus may or may not be of importance depending on what he means.

I have ruled on the matter.

I am seeking clarification of what the Taoiseach meant when he said that unions and management should work out a viability plan. The Minister, Deputy Cowen, repeatedly told the House yesterday that the LRC proposals were final settlement proposals. Is the Taoiseach saying there is a different position today?

I am calling Deputy Deasy.

I am asking the Taoiseach to clarify his reply.

This is not Question Time. The Deputy should pursue it in another way.

Is the Government changing its mind?

(Interruptions.)

The House set up the beef tribunal and I asked last week when we could expect its report. The date seems to be put back even further. It is stated in today's newspapers that the report will not be available until September. Will the Government communicate with the president of the beef tribunal and ascertain when the report will be available?

That matter was adverted to on the Order of Business quite often in recent times.

It is not too much to ask. It is making a farce of the whole procedure, which cost £30 million.

I am calling item No. 7.

Could I have an answer from the Taoiseach or some member of the Government?

This is not Question Time.

Could the Taoiseach get consultants to answer for him?

The Taoiseach wants to answer.

He is hoping his associates might be able to answer it.

When will the report be made available? Surely the Government can ascertain that?

Please desist, Deputy.

The Deputy should address his question elsewhere. I have repeatedly stated in the House that I have no information as to when it will be made available. I have no doubt that when the President of the High Court completes his job he will do what he is supposed to do.

Why not facilitate the House? Why not ask him?

(Interruptions.)

Why not do so yourself? There would be another question asked if I did.

Ask him.

I would be accused of interfering if I did that.

In view of the fact that the Taoiseach has changed the Government position regarding TEAM Aer Lingus would the Chair entertain a Special Notice Question today on the issue raised by the Taoiseach which clearly indicates a different position from that——

I indicated earlier that there are still ways and means open to Members to raise this matter.

In case there is any misunderstanding — I do not believe there is as I think the Opposition is being politicially mischievous — it is quite clear that the LRC worked out what they regarded, having listened to both sides, as a viability plan. Everyone in the House should be concerned that management and unions come together to work that viability plan. That is the real issue.

We have the third division now.

I cannot hear any more of this matter.

This side of the House has attempted to behave in a positive and constructive manner to save the jobs and yet we are accused——

(Interruptions.)

I thought heads were going to roll.

Order, please. I will hear the Deputies who offered, provided the matters are relevant.

Item No. 21 on the order Paper is the Fisheries (Amendment) Bill, 1994. When will this be taken? Will the Taoiseach guarantee that he will not attempt to overthrow my amendment which was accepted last week when the Bill was discussed in the Select Committee on Enterprise and Economic Strategy? When will Report Stage of the Bill be taken?

Next week.

(Interruptions.)

When he counts the number of Deputies present. I seek the Chair's assistance concerning a most inadequate reply I received yesterday to a question I put down to the Minister for the Environment. It is unworthy of a Minister to treat a Deputy the way he treated me by giving this reply.

If Deputies feel aggrieved about a Minister's reply there is a remedy open to them. There are ways and means of pursuing the matter but not on the Order of Business.

Can I do any more than put down a question——

And go home for the summer.

——and expect a proper answer?

I will advise the Deputy on how to proceed. My office is at his disposal.

The answer is a disgrace. I am not going to lie down quietly under this. I am entitled to a response. Can I take it that the Chair will look after this matter?

(Interruptions.)

Deputy Connaughton, please resume your seat.

Can I take it that you will look after this matter, a Cheann Comhairle?

I have advised the Deputy to communicate with my office.

I will raise the matter again if I have to.

Given that yesterday a 15 year old boy was remanded to Mountjoy Prison, due apparently to a lack of suitable child care facilities, and that we are operating under 1908 legislation, may I ask the Taoiseach the progress being made on the juvenile justice legislation and when it is likely to be brought before the House?

Work is continuing on this very extensive Bill but it will not be ready for some time yet.

On promised legislation, having regard to the indications that a Refugee Bill may be taken next week, will the Taoiseach indicate when the Bill will be published and whether we will have adequate time to examine it before it is taken in the House?

He has run out of passports.

This Bill is not on the list for next week.

When will it be published?

On the Order of Business——

On promised legislation——

I have facilitated the Deputy in every way.

——will the Taoiseach indicate whether this Bill will be published before the Dáil goes into recess? May I further ask him when it is proposed, if at all, to publish legislation on abortion information which I understand is necessary arising from a referendum which was held two years ago?

That Bill is nearing completion.

Is there any ability at all on that side of the House?

On the Order of Business——

I will hear the Deputy but this will be the final matter on the Order of Business.

Given that contrary to promises made the Government will not be in a position to bring its Refugee Bill before the House next week, will it agree to take the Refugee Protection Bill I have circulated——

Before the beef tribunal report.

——during Government time next week and allow us to take all Stages in the Dáil? It is over a year since the Government defeated such legislation and there is now an urgent need for it.

If the Opposition Parties agree, Committee Stage of the Refugee Bill can be taken during the summer recess.

Is the Taoiseach talking about the Bill I have circulated or the Government Bill?

I call on the Minister of State, Deputy Dempsey, to move item No. 7.

Will the Taoiseach clarify——

Please, Deputy.

——if he is willing to provide time next week for the Refugee Protection Bill which I have circulated and put it into Committee?

No, the Government Bill.

The Deputy knows well.

He said that——

Was the Deputy listening?

A Bill which has not been published cannot be taken in Committee.

(Interruptions.)

The Bill cannot be taken in Committee until the First and Second Stages have been taken in the House.

If the Deputy attended more often he would know what the business is.

The Taoiseach is deliberately trying to mislead this House and the public.

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