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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 17 Oct 1995

Vol. 457 No. 1

Ceisteanna—Questions Oral Answers - Strategic Management Initiative.

Bertie Ahern

Ceist:

3 Mr. B. Ahern asked the Taoiseach the action, if any, he now proposes to take on foot of the strategic management initiative. [14916/95]

I understand that the co-ordinating group of secretaries established by Government under the SMI is to present its second report to Government by end October.

In its decision on the first report of the co-ordinating group of 2 March. 1995, the Government mandated the co-ordinating group to: (a) review existing systems for making decisions, allocating responsibility and ensuring accountability in the Civil Service; and (b) bringing forward for Government consideration proposals for an integrated programme to modernise the systems and practices in question and for the consequent modernisation of existing personnel and financial management in the Civil Service.

I am satisfied that the will exists on the part of the Government to decide to implement a coherent and comprehensive reform programme on foot of the co-ordinating group's report. I would expect that decision to be taken this year.

How does the Taoiseach see the strategic management initiative developing as one coherent plan? I was involved in putting the plans together, and we had to co-ordinate conflicting views from many Departments to formulate a management initiative which would allow Departments certain flexibility and certain new powers. I would like to hear the Taoiseach's views on that. Does he see merit in hiving off the executive agencies of those parts of the Civil Service which simply administer Government policy? This was a live debate among those civil servants who studied the New Zealand policy. What are the Taoiseach's views on that matter?

I have just had the opportunity of reading the second report of the co-ordinating group of secretaries which is a very interesting document. It covers a range of issues, none of which has yet been decided by the Government. I am not, therefore, in a position to go into great detail on them. To sum it up briefly, it would include individuals within the public service having responsibility personally for the delivery of certain services and accountability for same. It would clarify the respective roles of Ministers vis-à-vis Department Secretaries with clear responsibilities for each. This would obviously require extensive consultation with the unions before being implemented because we want this process to proceed by way of agreement. It will cover matters such as regulatory reform, the elimination of red tape and the vexed problem of how to deal with issues which are the responsibility of two or more Departments which frequently creates difficulties of administration. It deals quite extensively with the whole question of staff morale, training, promotion, dealing with matters of under-performance where such occurs etc. and how that can be related to the performance indicators set for individual sections in Departments. It also includes proposals regarding public expenditure control and how commitments can be projected forward so that one understands what is happening when such decisions are taken.

The essence of the whole thing is to make strategic management part of the daily work of every decision-making official. Strategic management will not be imposed from outside with consultants coming in and telling people that they should think strategically. The culture of the service will change so that, as part of their daily work, people are thinking not just about how to make a decision today to serve today's needs but looking at its strategic implications for the service, how this impacts on the objectives that have been set by the office and whether or not consumers of public services are satisfied with the services they are getting.

Can the Taoiseach indicate when the Government's discussion on this issue will conclude?

In the next month or so. We will get the report at Cabinet in the next two weeks.

The Taoiseach would not disagree that we have a long way to go in implementing the strategic management initiative in Departments. Does he intend involving an implementation group as soon as there is a central position paper for all Departments? If so, who is it intended to include in that group?

The House may or may not be aware that there is a co-ordinating group of secretaries which has drawn up the report which contains the matter I have just summarised. They are probably the best people to act as the implementing group, because they are senior decision-makers within the service, and they understand the nature of the recommendations. I entirely agree with the Deputy's suggestion that getting this agreed at Cabinet is only the beginning. To devise performance indicators for Departments will be extremely difficult because individual Departments have quite diverse purposes and it is not possible to have a uniform quality of service indicators across the service; there must be specific quality of service indicators for each individual service. That will require much thinking by people to define what is their own purpose, and the creation of a structure whereby their achievement of their own stated purpose can be measured. That will be quite a lengthy process which will require a fair amount of hands on management from the top. It is a matter in which I am taking a particular interest and in respect of which the Minister of State, Deputy Avril Doyle, is working on an almost full time basis.

Would the Taoiseach agree that there is no incentive at the moment for the management in the Civil Service to effect savings and that the contrary is the case? Does he believe we need to examine a form of remuneration of the management in the Civil Service based on performance targets, the achievement of certain targets and on effecting savings in different budgets?

It would be premature to talk in those terms until one has at least satisfied oneself that the performance indicators are robust enough to be able to bear such a system. We are only at the stage of talking about the concept of performance indicators. We have yet to specify how they might work. There are some Departments, for example, where it might be quite easy to measure performance, and others where it would be virtually impossible because of the general nature of the work that is being done. Obviously one does not want to create a situation where a public servant who happens to work in a particular Department where performance can be easily measured would get pay increases, while somebody in another area of work which is just as important but not so easily measurable would not. There are many problems with this. It is not something that has developed rapidly in any jurisdiction to my knowledge. It is not excluded at this stage — we have not reached the point of decision.

I would remind the House that on today, Tuesday, 30 minutes only are available to us for dealing with questions to the Taoiseach. I shall be proceeding to other questions shortly after 3 o'clock.

The experience in other countries suggests that taking on management consultants from outside the Civil Service ensures it will never happen and is an excuse to bury it so I suggest that Civil Servant management is used.

That is what we are doing.

The Taoiseach mentioned that delegated function orders apply to Ministers of State but does he envisage a change in the system whereby the Cabinet delegates functions to parliamentary secretaries and Ministers of State, and what change has he in mind?

I am sure the Deputy is aware there are many instances where delegation of functions to Ministers of State does not go to Cabinet, is informal and that, depending on their abilities and interests the Ministers of State are given responsibilities wider than those specified in the Government decision. That works reasonably well. What will happen as a result of changes on foot of the strategic management initiative is that responsibilities will be much more formally and clearly defined for Ministers, Ministers of State, Secretaries and individual line officials running particular sections. It will all go down on paper so that there will be a much clearer sense of accountability for individual matters. This is the direction we are taking but at this stage we are looking for agreement in principle to implement a fairly detailed scheme which will have to be worked out Department by Department because Departments are not all the same.

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