Vol. 470 No. 1
37 Ms O'Donnell asked the Minister for Justice the target dates which have been set for each project in the accelerated prison building programme established in July 1996; when the Office of Public Works will have completed its examination of the detailed brief by her Department in relation to the proposed remand prison at wheatfield; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [18673/96]
Officials of my Department, the Department of Finance and the Office of Public Works, under the chairmanship of Minister of State, Deputy Coveney, have been progressing the various projects under the accelerated prison building programme since July as follows.
Construction of the building at Castlerea special unit — 25 places — has concluded and, following fit out, my Department will take possession of the new facility in late October or early November. Construction work on the Curragh Prison — 68 places — is ongoing and is scheduled to conclude by the end of this month. My Department will take possession of the new prison in November. Regarding D-wing of Limerick Prison — 55 places — detailed design work has been completed and tenders for construction were invited earlier this month. Construction is planned to commence in January 1997 and to be completed in autumn that year. The design and layout of the new women's prison — 60 places — has been agreed and observations arising from planning consultation are being examined and considered. Completion of construction is scheduled for 1998. The design and layout of Castlerea main prison — 125 places approximately — has been agreed. Work is progressing on outline drawings and the preparation of tender documents will be concluded by the end of October. Completion of construction is scheduled for 1997.
Taking into consideration the progress to date in planning the Wheatfield remand prison project — 400 places approximately — by officials of my Department and the Office of Public Works and the evaluation of the proposals received from the private sector for the construction of the new remand prison arising from a newspaper advertisement, I am satisfied this project remains on target for commencement of construction by May 1997 and completion during 1998. In addition to the extra places already provided, and when all these projects are completed, it should be noted that there will be approximately 800 additional prison places. I am satisfied that the overall programme to provide the additional prison places is making solid progress.
Will the Minister accept that the provision by the State of 400 spaces for remand prisoners at Wheatfield Prison cannot be postponed until 1998? Even without the proposed changes to the bail laws, which will place further stress on the system and on places, is the Minister aware that Ireland is currently in breach of its international obligations by not providing a separate remand centre? Will she accept the urgency about this matter which was trumpeted following the unfortunate murder of Veronica Guerin has turned into lethargy in her Department?
Why has the Department of Justice shown such a lack of interest and lethargy in responding to serious proposals from the private sector in May 1995 in relation to building the Wheatfield centre? It could have built the facility in a much shorter timeframe and at less expense than the current proposals the Minister mentioned. What is the projected cost of the Wheatfield project?
There is no lethargy in my Department regarding the provision of prison places. The Deputy does not mean to imply it but her knowledge of what is involved in planning and building a prison is lacking if she thinks a project can be announced one day and built the next, no matter who is involved in building it.
Another of the Deputy's points is inaccurate. Nineteen contractor/developer groups submitted proposals to the Department arising from an advertisement in some national newspapers on 20 August 1996 regarding the Government decision which was taken just a month previously. Most of the groups consist of a number of elements, including building contractors, architects, engineers, quantity surveyors, and, in some cases, financial institutions, which have come together with a view for consideration for the provision of the new remand prison. An important consideration in placing the advertisement in the newspapers was to gather information from interested parties on how they proposed to provide the new remand facility.
Deputy O'Donnell referred to submissions made in May 1995. However, at that point, no decision had been made to build a remand prison. I accept such a prison should be available and this is why I secured Government approval to build such a facility, which will be the first targeted remand prison built in the State. Whatever criticism may land on my desk about the absence of such a prison in the past, we are in the process of preparing and building such a facility now so that remand and convicted prisoners may be segregated.
The concept of placing the advertisement was to gather information from people who spoke to Deputies and me at social functions saying they could build a prison and outlining how they would do it. Nineteen contractors replied and the proposals received cover a wide range of options, including traditional tender and construction; design and build; design, build and finance; design, build, finance and operate; off-shelf projects, and management contractor methods. These proposals, with other known methods and variations, are being considered and evaluated with the assistance of the Office of Public Works, the experts in this area. The main criteria used in the evaluation process are suitability for the project, good value for money and speed of delivery.
It is not appropriate at this point to outline the favoured method of procurement because the 19 submissions are being examined at present. As soon as they have been fully examined, an announcement will be made as to how the project will proceed. The Government has approved the finance for the remand facility and this should be taken into account. The money is available but the Government may decide to operate a system whereby the private sector is more involved in this project than in others in the past.
I asked the Minister about the projected cost of the project.
I omitted to mention that the projected cost at this point is approximately £40 million.
The projected cost for a prison with 400 spaces is £40 million which works out at £100,000 for each space. Is the Minister aware that experience in Britain indicates that a new medium security prison on a green field site, with accommodation for over 600 prisoners, could be built for under £50 million? This represents a cost of £80,000 for each space, which is well below the cost of the planned facility at Wheatfield.
The British experience also shows that the cost per space falls significantly when a new cell block is added to an existing prison because the same need for major expenditure on perimeter is not necessary. Where did the Minister get the projected cost of £40 million? Did the private sector project a lower cost for each prison space in discussions with Department officials as was the case in Britain?
When the changes to the bail laws are implemented, hopefully in the new year following the referendum, where does the Minister propose to place the people who are denied bail under the new legislation? Will they be placed in Mountjoy Jail, given that she stated a remand centre will not be available in the State until 1998?
With regard to experience in the UK, I arranged for officials from my Department, accompanied by Office of Public Works personnel, to travel to Britain to examine the new style prisons and consider the best aspects. This has been included in the process but, without the names of specific prisons, I am not aware of their costs. The figure of £40 million is a ballpark one which was given to me as being the cost of a prison. Until we get down to the final details of awarding a contract and having the final drawings prepared, it is not possible to say how much it will cost. I will endeavour to bring that cost down as much as possible but Deputies should be aware that although a wall has been built at Wheatfield, we need a secure prison inside the wall. I do not want prisoners who while they are confined inside a wall, being able to get out of their cells and so on.
I was asked where prisoners will go if and when the bail referendum is passed. Until this remand centre is available they will go to where those who are denied bail at present, for fear of absconding or interfering with witnesses, are sent. That is where remand prisoners have been sent since it was made clear in 1966 that bail could be refused on those two grounds. However, as soon as the remand centre is available they will be sent to it. I cannot comment on the 600 prison places per 50 million people in the UK.
Does the Minister realise that the fact that the State will not be in a position to provide a separate remand centre until 1998, as projected, will give fuel and ammunition to those who oppose the change in our Constitution on the grounds that this State has an obligation to provide separate remand facilities under our international obligations? Does she realise that the fact that the State is not in a position to provide such remand centres will give ammunition to those who will argue against the change in our Constitution in this regard?
It is not for me to assess the arguments of those who are opposed to the referendum on bail. They may use that argument or others. If they are serious enough they will find some reasons to oppose changes in the bail law. This country does not have a separate remand facility and the Government is building one. At present those who are remanded in custody are sent to our prisons so our prisons hold a mixture of people who are on remand and convicted criminals. I am now trying to rectify this situation by building a remand prison. It will be erected as fast as is humanly possible. There have been many meetings to make progress on this building programme and it is a great tribute to those involved that I am able to say that construction will start early next year. It took about five years from gestation to completion of the Wheatfield project. I assure the Deputy it will not take five years to build this remand prison.
The time allotted for Priority Questions is exhausted, but we may take the final two priority questions in the category of ordinary questions.
