Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 27 Nov 1996

Vol. 472 No. 2

Order of Business

The Tánaiste

It is proposed to take No. 5a, Motion re Leave to introduce Supplementary Estimate [Votes 19, 20 and 21]; No. 11, Statements on the situation in the Great Lakes Area of Africa; No. 12, Adoption (No. 2) Bill, 1996, Report and Final Stages; and No. 10, Universities Bill, 1996, Second Stage (Resumed).

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) the sitting shall not be suspended at 1.30 p.m. today; (2) business shall be interrupted today following the announcement of matters on the Adjournment under Standing Order 21; (3) No. 5a [Votes 19, 20 and 21] shall be decided without debate and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith; (4) No. 11, if not previously concluded shall adjourn at 12 noon today and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the opening statement of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for the Fianna Fáil Party and the Progressive Democrats Party shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case; the statement of each other Member called upon shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; (iii) Members may share time; and (iv) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 15 minutes; (5) the proceedings on the Report and Final Stages of No. 12, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 2.15 p.m. today by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister of State at the Department of Health; and (6) Private Members' Business which shall be No. 35, Motion No. 16 re Heritage (resumed) shall be taken today between 12 p.m. and 1.30 p.m. and the proceedings thereon shall be brought to a conclusion at 1.30 p.m.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are six items to put before the House. Is the proposal that the sitting shall not be suspended at 1.30 p.m. satisfactory and agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal that business shall be interrupted today following the announcement of matters on the Adjournment in accordance with Standing Order 21 satisfactory and agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 11 satisfactory and agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 12 satisfactory and agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' Business satisfactory and agreed? Agreed.

Mr. B. Ahern

Will the Government provide time early next week for a debate on developments in Northern Ireland? This urgent matter should be debated in the House following what appears to be the effective rejection of John Hume's initiative. Will the Tánaiste confirm that, as in 1993 when the Hume-Adams initiative that led to the Dowing Street Declaration was rejected by the British Government, the Government will not accept "no" in this instance from the British Government?

The Tánaiste

In relation to providing time in the House, I am sure that can be discussed between the Whips. As Deputy Ahern is aware negotiations have been ongoing for many months and as with any negotiations when it comes to making the ultimate decisions there will be difficulties. As I said last night, there are difficulties now but work is ongoing. We were in contact with the British Government at many levels yesterday evening and will continue to be. The gaps that divide the parties can be bridged and every effort will be made today and in the coming days to ensure that we bridge those gaps to avail of the opportunity to bring about the ultimate prize we are all seeking, peace, a reinstatement of the cessation of violence and inclusive all party negotiations as quickly as possible.

An Ceann Comhairle

I permitted that matter to be raised, but I dissuade Members from the notion that they can discuss this matter now or that we should engage in a question and answer session.

Mr. B. Ahern

Will the Tánaiste agree that the real stumbling block all along has been and is that even if there was an unequivocal IRA ceasefire, which everyone in this House continually urges, the British Government would not be willing or able to challenge the Unionist veto to allow Sinn Féin participation in all party talks?

An Ceann Comhairle

I cannot allow this issue to become a question and answer affair.

Miss Harney

It would be useful if the two Governments met at this time with a view to moving forward with a common strategy. Will the Tánaiste confirm if a meeting is planned between the Taoiseach and the British Prime Minister in the next fortnight?

The Tánaiste

I am not aware of a date having been fixed for a meeting between the Taoiseach and the British Prime Minister, but normally one would be held between now and the conclusion of business this year.

Miss Harney

Will the Tánaiste confirm if the Government will introduce legislation to deal with the below cost selling in the newspaper industry and, if so, when?

An Ceann Comhairle

Is legislation promised in that area?

The Tánaiste

I understand no legislation is promised in that area.

Miss Harney

I wish to clarify a point. There was a newspaper report this morning to the effect that yesterday the Cabinet decided to introduce legislation in this area. Can I take it that is not the case?

Mr. D. Ahern

The Tánaiste has not been attending Cabinet meetings.

The Tánaiste

As Deputy Harney is aware, there is a report from the Commission on the Newspaper Industry. The Government is studying the implications of it, but to the best of my knowledge what I told her is factual, legislation was not promised in the House to that effect.

Mr. S. Brennan

For more than a year, ten Bills have been promised from the Department of Transport, Energy and Communications. On each occasion I raised the matters individually I was told the Bills would be introduced some time next year. Apart from the Minister, what is the problem in the Department of Transport, Energy and Communications?

A Deputy

His predecessor.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should refer to a matter appertaining to specific legislation.

Mr. S. Brennan

Regarding the electricity Bill, I am told the absence of policy decisions means the introduction of that Bill might be deferred until next year also. Will the Tánaiste confirm when that Bill will be taken?

The Tánaiste

Despite the best efforts of the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications, Deputy Lowry——

Mr. D. Ahern

He is no live wire.

The Tánaiste

——to improve the quality of service in the Department after the former Minister's term in office the heads of the Bill will not be available until the middle of next year.

Mr. S. Brennan

As I suspected.

Ms Keogh

On legislation before the House, is the Tánaiste aware that his colleagues in Democratic Left have issued a veto on two sections of the Employment Equality Bill? Is it his intention to allow the Minister for Equality and Law Reform to amend that Bill so that the concerns of Democratic Left can be allayed?

An Ceann Comhairle

I would prefer if the Deputy raised that matter in another way.

Dr. Woods

The position regarding this Bill is unusual. Yesterday Democratic Left exercised a veto and the Minister was forced to withdraw an amendment and bypass the normal Committee Stage. He gave an undertaking that when he has had discussions with the Government and the Attorney General he will bring an amendment on Report Stage and arrange for a recommittal at that Stage. It would seem the Bill before the House does not have the full support of the Government. What arose yesterday in committee creates a difficulty for the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is embarking on a statement rather than referring to particular legislation.

Dr. Woods

This is a matter of legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

I know that, but the Deputy is not entitled to make a speech.

Dr. Woods

I am not. I am merely asking when the Government will give its view on the Bill——

Mr. D. Ahern

Its definitive view.

Dr. Woods

——and when will the authentic Bill be brought before the House?

The Tánaiste

I am sure when Report Stage is taken up and ordered by the Whips, the Minister for Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Taylor, will be able to present the amendment to committee to which Deputy Woods referred, and that there should not be any difficulties.

Mr. M. Smith

In view of the uncertainty in the agricultural sector, the fact that the operational programme is now in shreds and there are about 800 unopened letters of application for licences in the Department of the Marine, will the Tánaiste indicate when the Fisheries (Amendment) Bill will be introduced?

The Tánaiste

The text of that Bill was agreed by the Government yesterday and it will be before the Seanad very shortly.

Mr. O'Dea

I draw the Tánaiste's attention to paragraph 56 of the programme for Government which states, "We will examine the possibility of legislationg to enable journalists to protect the confidentiality of their sources in certain circumstances." The Tánaiste will be aware that matter has acquired a certain urgency for reasons I cannot go into. Will he agree that Ireland's present laws in that regard are draconian and out of line with similar systems in other jurisdictions?

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the Deputy referring to particular legislation?

Mr. O'Dea

Will the Tánaiste confirm if the examination has been completed? Does the Government intend to do anything about the law in that area and, if so, when?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am not clear on that matter.

The Tánaiste

I will not comment on Deputy O'Dea's assertions about draconian laws here other than say his party was in Government for a long time and introduced a good deal of legislation. Our consideration of this matter is not yet complete.

Mr. O'Dea

Will the Tánaiste confirm if the examination promised in the programme for Government has been carried out and are there proposals to reform the law on contempt?

The Tánaiste

I have answered that question.

Miss Quill

Is the Tánaiste concerned about the sad spectacle of a ten year old boy in the Children's Court in Dublin yesterday where eight gardaí were lined up to give evidence.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thought Deputy Quill had something relevant to raise. She will have to raise that matter at another time.

Miss Quill

It is relevant.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is a very important matter and should be treated as such.

Miss Quill

This is the matter of a ten year old hardened criminal.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Quill may not proceed on that subject matter. It is not in order.

Miss Quill

Will the Tánaiste ensure that the introduction of the Juvenile Justice Bill is speeded up? Has he any conscience about ten year old children who are hardened criminals?

(Interruptions.)

The Tánaiste

The Juvenile Justice Bill was approved by the Government yesterday.

Mr. M. Kitt

Speaking on a Private Members' Bill on 8 May, the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs promised to introduce an amendment to the Control of Exports legislation with regard to landmines and other explosives. What is the position on this?

The Tánaiste

The legislation is at an advanced stage.

Mr. M. Kitt

Will he confirm that the necessary statutory instruments will be introduced?

Mr. M. Ahern

Fianna Fáil introduced a Prompt Payments Bill last week which was voted down by the Government. Over the past year the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry promised farmers that area aid would be paid by the end of October. It has not been paid to the vast majority.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should put down a parliamentary question on that matter. If there is nothing else appropriate to the Order of Business I will proceed.

Mr. M. Ahern

When will legislation be introduced in this area?

The Tánaiste

The drafting is under way at present and we hope to have the legislation introduced early next year.

Mr. M. Ahern

Why have payments been stopped until January 1997?

An Ceann Comhairle

This is not Question Time.

Mr. M. Ahern

The Minister promised payments by October this year.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy persists I shall have to ask him to resume his seat.

Ms Shortall

With regard to the confirmation by the Tánaiste that the Cabinet has approved long promised legislation in the juvenile justice area, when will the Children Bill be introduced?

The Tánaiste

I will get the information the Deputy requires in the course of the day.

Mr. B. Ahern

With regard to the Employment Equality legislation, it is unacceptable that the Government ordered this Bill in the House while members of a Government party condemned section 37, the central section to the Bill. It is not good enough to consider the provision of this section on Report Stage. Numerous organisations negotiated with the Minister over many months on the wording of the section. It has now been delayed until Report Stage because one party in Government is refusing to indicate its support.

An Ceann Comhairle

This matter can be deliberated when the measure comes before the House.

Mr. B. Ahern

The Opposition agreed to take Second Stage when some members of the Government rejected the legislation. They continued to reject it on Committee Stage. It is an unfair way to deal with the matter. Will the Tánaiste clarify the position? Will he also advise on when the Garda Síochána Bill, on Committee Stage at present, will come back to the House?

The Tánaiste

There will be no delays with the Report Stage of the Employment Equality Bill. It will be brought back before the House as quickly as possible. The Garda Síochána Bill is on Committee Stage and will be brought back before the House when it completes that stage.

Mr. N. Treacy

Will the Tánaiste outline the efforts he made to secure the recommencement of the export of livestock from this country over the past year? Is he aware of the grave crisis in the livestock industry? Has he had consultations with the——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must deal with this matter in the proper fashion.

Ms O'Donnell

What is the status and whereabouts of the legislation on the compellability and privilege of witnesses? The Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and all others in the House are committed to enhancing the powers of the Dáil to undertake inquiries and to have senior office holders appear before Dáil committees. This is impossible at present because the Bill has not yet passed. What is the delay in the Government introducing amendments as promised to this legislation to allow such high office holders to appear before Dáil committees?

The Tánaiste

The matter is before a committee which has sought legal advice on the complexities of the promised legislation. We will move forward as soon as these can be resolved.

Cecilia Keaveney

The announcement last week of promised legislation will take half the responsibilities of the Minister for Justice from her Department. Now the Minister for the Marine is asking commercial fishermen in County Donegal to give up substantial amounts of their land and sea rights. Will the Minister defer the deadline of 30 November in respect of submissions and talk to people rather than have them give away their rights? The Foyle Fishery Commission Bill will do this because it will decimate the white fish industry in Greencastle if people do not take account of what is taking place.

The Tánaiste

The Bill is still at drafting stage.

Cecilia Keaveney

There is a deadline of 30 November.

Mr. Martin

Will the Tánaiste indicate when legislation on the reform of the higher education grant system will be introduced? Most Deputies have experienced difficulties again this year with late payments of grants to students.

The Tánaiste

This Bill is still at a very early stage.

Mr. Martin

Four years on and Three years after the Buckley report.

Mr. Callely

Will the Tánaiste outline progress in respect of the thousands of people with disabilities, who are denied a service or are inappropriately placed, in line with the commitment set out in the Government's programme A Government of Renewal? What measures will be taken to address this matter?

An Ceann Comhairle

This is a matter more appropriate to Question Time.

Mr. Callely

It is a crisis.

Mr. Kirk

When will the Estate Management legislation be introduced?

The Tánaiste

The legislation is in preparation. I will communicate with the Deputy during the day.

Ms O'Donnell

The Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs indicated that there are legal difficulties concerning the preparation of the compellability of witnesses legislation. Will he not confirm that the Bill is unable to progress any further because the DPP indicated he has fundamental objections to being compelled to appear before a Dáil committee?

An Ceann Comhairle

We have had much on this matter. It ought to await the reintroduction of the measure in the House.

Mr. R. Burke

I appeal to my colleagues on all sides of the House not to ask further questions of the Tánaiste because his rare visit is obviously boring him to death as he flicks through the "This is Your Life" book before him about this peasant House. Let us proceed with the rest of the business.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy for his assistance in the matter. I am proceeding now to Item 4a.