Tony Killeen
Ceist:6 Mr. Killeen asked the Minister for Justice the progress, if any, which has been made in bringing forward regulations for the security industry; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [5439/97]
Other Questions. - Security Industry Review.
My Department is carrying out a review of this complex issue and will report to me shortly. The review has involved an extensive range of meetings with representative and trade bodies in the industry, Government Departments and agencies and the Garda Síochána. The security industry comprises a large number of companies providing a wide range of services, including security on business premises, storage and transit of cash, supply and installation of intruder and fire alarms, providing 24 hour monitoring for alarm calls, providing security for private individuals and carrying out private investigations. The departmental review includes analysis of the issues involved in regulations and of ways in which such a broad spectrum of activity could be regulated in practice. It also involves analysis of regulatory practice for the security industry in other jurisdictions. When I have examined and assessed the contents of the review I will make a further statement on the matter.
Accurate information is available on the number of companies involved and the number of employees in those companies, but is there monitoring of the activities of the companies and the way in which they undertake their activities?
The security industry is not regularised by law. There is no regulatory authority to monitor each company or to which people may apply when they wish to set up such a company. The latest figure of people working in the security industry, given at the recent Irish Security Industry Association — ISIA — annual dinner which I attended, is approximately 3,000. The ISIA carries out a great deal of monitoring and regulation and presents certificates to people who undertake special training courses. Companies are self-regulated. The concern arises when people who are not members of the association give a bad name to certain sections of the industry. After years of begging by bona fide members of the security industry of successive Ministers for Justice to consider the industry in its entirety, I took up the cudgels for them. An intensive review of the industry has been carried out and a report is in the final stages of preparation. When I have that report I will contact the president of the federation and the ISIA, both of which represent the industry, to progress the matter.
It is a long time — January 1995 — since the Brink's-Allied raid brought this matter to a head, and more than two years later there is still no sign of the regulations which the Minister promised for the security industry. The way matters are progressing, Rip Van Winkle will have woken up before the regulations are in place. Will the Minister accept there has been considerable lethargy in regard to this matter and that people could be forgiven for believing the Minister is waiting for another serious robbery from a security industry depot before introducing regulations? Why has it taken so long for regulations, which appear to be simple enough to draft, to see the light of day?
I did not need to introduce regulations to examine the way in which cash in transit is handled. Shortly after the Brink's-Allied robbery a number of changes were made to the way cash in transit is handled, but I do not intend to spell them out to the House because, while Members are law abiding citizens, people who are not could hear of the changes and plan robberies accordingly. A great deal of effort has been made to ensure a cash in transit robbery will not recur. However, as I am not a miracle worker I cannot ensure a robbery of cash in transit will not take place again. It would be foolish for a Minister to do so.
I do not accept I have put the matter on the long finger. A large number of meetings have taken place. I have attended almost every security function, launch and presentation since I became Minister and views differ greatly on the type of legislation that should be enacted. A number of companies do not want regulation because they believe small companies will not be able to pay for the structures they will have to put in place to meet requirements and so on. My officials have met representatives of the Irish Small and Medium Enterprises, SIPTU, the International Professional Security Association, the Irish Security Industry Association, the Security Institute of Ireland and, more recently, there were communications with the newly formed umbrella body. The security industry is not cohesive in that it does not have one organisation to speak for it. It is only in the past week or two that the new organisation has brought all the associations under its umbrella. Now that they may all sing from the one hymn sheet, progress should be much easier. The matter is not dead and as soon as the report is complete I will progress the matter further.
Does the Minister realise a group of convicted criminals released from prison could set up a security industry? Does she realise she did the industry no favours by failing abysmally to regulate the industry over a period of two years in office, particularly when deficiencies were highlighted by the Brink's-Allied raid? Will she assure us the regulations will be brought before the House by a certain date? Is it possible to even get that information from the Minister today?
I acknowledge there are valid concerns about people with criminal records setting up security companies, but once criminals have completed their sentences and paid their debts to society they are free to set up any business. People with criminal convictions do not have to forfeit their constitutional rights to start up a business. However, I am aware of the concerns and have raised them with the industry, but it does not believe the matter is as serious as the anecdotes and dramatic headlines portray. Those type of headlines damage the reputation of bona fide people working in the security industry. There will probably be another headline after today and bona fide people in the industry will feel they are being labelled as criminals who have completed their jail sentences.
I cannot and will not give the Deputy an exact date as to when or if regulations will be brought before the House. I have not completed my examination of how best to proceed. The matter will require primary legislation, it is not a question of sticking a few regulations on a piece of paper. This is a complex and diverse matter. I attended a luncheon last week with a large number of representatives from the security industry and two members of the Garda Síochána who could not agree among themselves on how the industry should be regulated. Those who provide products for the industry do not believe they should be regulated in the same way as others in the industry. Many different views were expressed at the lunch. It is not an easy industry to regulate. I will continue my examination of the industry and before long I hope to be able to give a clearer indication of the path we are taking.
It is factually incorrect to suggest convicted criminals can set up any business they wish. The Minister should give leadership, make regulations and introduce legislation. She should make decisions in the best interest of the industry and those who put their faith in it.
I agree it is a matter for the Government to decide how an industry should be regulated and I am consulting with the industry in that regard. I am confused at the Deputy's views. In his remarks on the last question he beat me over the head for not consulting with somebody and when I am holding extensive consultations on a matter he wants me to proceed with an iron fist and make the regulations. I will not do that. If it were as easy as the Deputy believes, why was nothing done about security industry regulations since 1981 when I first met representatives of the industry? The Fine Gael, Labour, Progressive Democrats and Fianna Fáil parties have been in Government since then, but did nothing to regulate the industry.
We have analysed the variety and complexity of the industry and are beginning to get a better picture of the legislation that will be required. I cannot give the Deputy a date as to when legislation will be introduced because I have not completed my examination of the industry, but it will be introduced in a proper and effective manner, if and when it is introduced.