Vol. 478 No. 4
14 Miss Harney asked the Minister for the Marine the steps, if any, he is taking at EU level to stop other member states operating flag of convenience procedures to fish for other member countries' quotas; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9020/97]
23 Miss Harney asked the Minister for the Marine the number of flag of convenience boats operating in the Irish sea fishery zone. [9019/97]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 14 and 23 together.
As I have indicated to the House on many occasions, I am extremely concerned about flagships from a number of perspectives — notably, the serious difficulties of control and enforcement arising from their activities in our waters and the fact that flagships benefit from national quotas without providing real economic benefits for the fishing communities of the flag state.
There are approximately 150 flagships operating in these waters. The majority are registered in the UK, while 12 are on the Irish register and some are registered in France and Germany. They are owned, crewed and operated by companies or individuals in other EU member states, mostly Spain, and their catch is mainly landed in other member states, which imposes particular enforcement problems.
Flagships fish against the quota allocations of the member state of registry. The management, control and access to national quotas by such vessels is therefore a matter for the flag state concerned rather than the coastal state where the fishing activity is carried out. The fishing activity of flagships, and all vessels irrespective of nationality, in these waters is closely monitored by the Irish fishery protection services with considerable resources being applied to targeting potentially illegal activity on land and at sea.
Ireland has consistently pressed the UK authorities to co-operate more closely with us in monitoring and controlling fishing activities of UK registered flagships in these waters. We are also putting pressure on the Spanish authorities to improve the policing of landings by flagships in their ports which is also a matter of direct and considerable concern for us.
I used the opportunity of the Irish Presidency to take an initiative geared towards improving practical co-operation between member states on fisheries control and enforcement. This was designed, among other objectives, to bring about substantially improved scrutiny by other member states of flagship activity and to encourage better information exchange. As a result of this initiative, the Fisheries Council agreed a number of practical initiatives to improve communication and co-operation on fisheries control, including better co-operation on land-based inspections in member states other than the flag state. We are working to ensure these commitments are delivered on through bilateral discussions with Spain and the UK and at technical working groups on control involving the Commission and other member states.
The operation of flagships is legitimate business under the general Treaty provisions relating to right of establishment and freedom of movement.I am, however, concerned to ensure there is the necessary link between the economic benefits of national fish quotas and the national coastal areas dependent on fishing. We share the concerns of the UK in this regard and have said so at the Intergovernmental Conference when the issue was aired, while taking the view that there may be ways other than a Treaty change to secure the same objective.
I will continue to explore actively with the Commission, the UK and other member states ways of securing that objective, in addition to pushing all relevant member states to ensure that the activities of flagships are adequately controlled both at sea and in port. I am not prepared to tolerate flouting of fisheries law by flagships or any fishing vessels, irrespective of nationality, operating in these waters. European fish stocks are under severe pressure and the activities of flagships must be recognised as one of the dimensions of the overall conservation and enforcement problem. Enhanced control of flagships by their states of registry and by the member states in which they land their catches is essential to our efforts as a coastal state to protect stocks and enforce the rules.
I am grateful to the Minister for the long reply but I must remind him that Deputy Harney asked the steps, if any, he is taking at EU level to stop other member states operating flag of convenience procedures to fish for other member countries' quotas. This device, which is being used mainly by Spanish interests to circumvent EU Common Fisheries Policy quota laws, should be stopped. The purpose of the question was to ask the Minister if he is taking a stand at EU level to change the Common Fisheries Policy in such a way that it will not be possible for these vessels carrying a flag of convenience to fish out Irish quotas. The Minister mentioned the number of vessels which are fishing in Irish waters. Was it 115 or 150?
One hundred and fifty.
That is extraordinary. The capacity of those vessels to take fish from the Irish quota and Irish fishery waters——
They are not taking them from the Irish quota. It is important to understand this problem. They are taking them from quotas which belong to the UK. Whether it is a flagship or a UK vessel, it is still from the same quota. The reality is that we must have this enforced properly.
I did not cede to the Minister. I understood the Minister to say that there were flag of convenience ships operating out of Ireland and the UK, from which the number is obviously greater, but this practice should be stopped. It should not be tolerated. Seeking to introduce regulations to control it or provide for greater surveillance is not the way to approach the matter and it is not the way the sea fishing industry wants. It wants the practice brought to an end. The question is directed at the measures, if any, the Minister is taking at EU level to bring the practice to an end.
I reiterate that, as a result of the Maastricht Treaty and other treaties, there is freedom of movement for people, goods and business. There is nothing to stop me from going to Britain, Germany, France or any other member state and buying a business. The treaties allow me to do that. There is nothing to stop anybody coming to Ireland or the UK and buying a business. That is the basis of this and that is the difficulty.
The Minister would not get away with it in Spain. The Spanish would not tolerate it.
The Progressive Democrats are great supporters of Europe and the various established rights, such as the freedom of movement, under the general treaty provisions, and rightly so. Deputy Molloy knows the position as well as I do. The Government supported the issue when it was raised at the Intergovernmental Conference and we will continue to do so. We are endeavouring to ensure that the flag state insists on the economic link which is part and parcel of the requirements of the freedom of movement throughout Europe. The ball is at the foot of the UK authorities. It is galling for me to listen to the UK Minister talking about flagships and saying that he will not do this or that until this issue is addressed. In the meantime nothing is being done to control the people who are the responsibility of the UK Government. These people are fishing in Irish waters from UK quotas. The onus is on the British authorities to ensure that they adhere to the quotas allocated to them. In turn, it is also the obligation of Spain or any other member state where this fish is landed to ensure that the quantities landed match the quotas which they were allocated. That is the point at issue.
The problem, which the Deputy identified earlier, has been that up to now there was insufficient control, particularly in the landing state. There are insufficient checks by the flag state on its vessels.Most of them are registered in the UK and, therefore, the UK authorities have a responsibility.We have a responsibility because it is occurring in Irish waters. We are taking on board that responsibility but we are trying to find a practical solution to this problem in the short term. If the rules of the game are changed at a later date at the Intergovernmental Conference, a referendum is held and some issue is dealt with by the people, that is fine by me but in the meantime the rules state that there should be an economic link between the flagship and the flag state, on which it is the responsibility of the flag state to insist. There is also a responsibility on the flag state to ensure that those vessels do not over fish their quotas and the state in which the fish are landed reports accurately the landings of those vessels.
We have endeavoured to highlight the issue at EU level and press for greater co-operation and control. We can do all the shouting we like in relation to our dislike of flagships, but until we change the treaties and the Intergovernmental Conference deals with this issue I have the responsibility of insisting that nobody is allowed to flout the law by over fishing in Irish waters. I am endeavouring to do that.
Is it not true that the nub of the problem lies in the latter part of the reply which the Minister gave to the original two questions——
Correct.
——that is, the monitoring of the catch in the country where it is landed, namely, Spain? Despite what the Minister or Commissioner Bonino may say, the Spaniards are flouting the law to a huge extent.
Hear, hear.
We saw it on the television documentary "The Cook Report" on ITV.
They are laughing at us.
The fisheries officers in Spain are intimidated so that there are no checks. They allow undersized fish to be landed. They tolerate compartments to hide undersized fish. They are allowing the quotas to be exceeded by up to 1,000 per cent. There are no controls in Spain and until such time as the Spanish Government and Commissioner Bonino——
The Minister should get tough.
——apply the law as it should be applied, Irish fishermen and the Irish fishing industry will suffer gravely. Is that not the situation?
I like this comment from Deputy Molloy that I should get tough. I do not think anybody could have been tougher. I was criticised recently by the Spanish authorities for being over-zealous in relation to what the Naval Service was doing to Spanish vessels.
They had some cheek.
At the last Council meeting, I had discussions with the Spanish Minister. I made it quite clear — and our records prove — that we treat everybody equally.
The Minister should not mind the margins. He should hit them in the middle of the field.
I like the great co-operation in which the Deputy is involved now. We should not be playing politics with this.
We are supporting the Minister. He should take further action.
I am proud the Irish authorities are insisting that people adhere to the law. If Ireland did not raise this issue about the landing state, nothing would be done about it.
Deputy Deasy has identified the problem. I was trying to do so before he arrived in the Chamber but it did not suit some people to hear what I was saying because of the little bit of press coverage which they might get in telling the Minister what to do. Deputy Deasy is right. If there are proper controls in the landing state which accurately records catches, undersized fish, etc., and it cooperates with the flag state and the coastal state involved, this issue will be resolved. We have made it clear not only to Spain but to all member states——
Particularly Spain.
——that we will continue to insist that EU inspectors visit the landing states without any warning to carry out spot checks on landings. If it is discovered the law has been broken, the landing state should be heavily penalised. I agree with Deputy Deasy in respect of how the matter should be resolved.
I assure Deputy Molloy that we will not cease our efforts on the flagship issue. I do not believe the process of granting flags of convenience should be allowed to continue. If someone is determined to purchase a business in a member state, he should do so in accordance with the rules and regulations. There should be a clear economic connection and relationship with the flag state. We will insist this takes place. To allay the Deputy's fears, I inform him that we have no intention of going soft on those who flout the law.
