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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 9 Oct 1997

Vol. 481 No. 3

Report on National Lottery: Statements.

I welcome this opportunity to address the House on the comprehensive report produced earlier this year by the Review Group on the National Lottery. This is an opportunity for Deputies to express views on the recommendations of the report and on any other matter relative to the national lottery before final decisions are taken.

I will set out the background to the setting up of the group and outline its main findings. I will give further information about the fund set up to aid private charitable lotteries in direct competition with the national lottery for which a sum of £5 million was voted by means of Supplementary Estimate for the Department of Finance last July. I will deal with future developments in the market in which the national lottery is operating and which is changing fast. I will also refer to the sales of UK lottery tickets here about which there has been recent media publicity.

The national lottery recently celebrated ten years of successful operation. The lottery has already contributed more than £700 million for activities such as youth and sport and arts and culture and has supported initiatives in favour of the health and welfare of the community. But for the success with which the national lottery has been operated, much of this funding would not have been possible.

Ironically, the great success of the lottery in providing funding for the qualifying categories has been a cause of controversy from time to time. Not surprisingly, demands for lottery funding consistently exceed the available resources and there are inevitably disappointed applicants, notwithstanding that the disbursement of lottery grants is subject to similar controls as apply to public funding generally. Nonetheless, it is vital that the lottery's players and the public generally should have confidence in the methods by which allocations are decided and that there should be maximum transparency. Public trust and confidence are of paramount importance to the operation of a national lottery. Concerns such as these were central to the deliberations of the review group.

The review group was appointed by the Minister's predecessor, Deputy Quinn, in December 1996. There were three independent members: the chairman, Mr Niall Greene; Mr Richard Burrows, Irish Distillers; and Dr. Kathleen Lynch, UCD. The group also contained representatives of the Departments of Finance, Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht, Education, the Environment, Health and Social Welfare.

I take this opportunity on behalf of the Minister for Finance and myself to thank the chairman and the other members of the group for all the work they did to produce a thorough and wide-ranging report which dealt fully with all the issues submitted to them. It is clear that the group worked painstakingly and considered all the possible options in relation to the terms of reference. All future reviews of the lottery will, I believe, refer to this report as a repository of very useful information on the development of the lottery.

The terms of reference of the group primarily required it to look closely at the impact of spending financed from the surplus of the national lottery with particular attention to the allocation of funds administered by Departments under discretionary schemes involving financial support for voluntary agencies such as sporting and community bodies. The group was also asked to review the arrangements and procedures for processing applications for national lottery funding and make recommendations for maximum transparency in the allocation of lottery resources. Submissions were invited from individuals and interested parties by way of public advertisement. Approximately 130 submissions were made to the group from a wide range of interests throughout the community. All submissions were considered by the group. In carrying out its task, the group reviewed the development of the national lottery since its establishment in 1987 and took account of previous reports and research into the lottery. This was with a view to enhancing public understanding of the contribution of the lottery to the community and, if possible, improving the responsiveness of lottery funding to the needs of the community.

Under the National Lottery Act, 1986, lottery funding may be provided for the following purposes: sport and other recreation; national culture — including the Irish language; the arts and the health of the community. Further categories were later approved by Government when sales greatly exceeded initial expectations. These categories are: youth; welfare; national heritage and amenities. Lottery funding was also provided on a once-off basis for the Dublin Millennium in 1988 and EXPO '92. As Deputies will appreciate, the benefits of lottery funding have been apparent in every area of the country and have been made available to a large number of voluntary and community groups.

Before I discuss the group's findings in greater detail, it is worth noting that, while it made suggestions for improved administration of lottery funding, the group considered that decisions on lottery allocations should remain the responsibility of the Government rather than, for example, being given to an independent body.

The main recommendation of the group is that, in future, the allocation of lottery resources should be directed entirely to the support of voluntary and community activity. This would be intended to bring about a much closer association, than has been the case heretofore, of lottery support with a wide range of services and activities at the heart of the community. In this way, the benefits of spending on the lottery — approximately 33p of every one pound spent on a lottery ticket goes to good causes — could be more clearly demonstrated than under the present arrangements. The recommendation entails a realignment of lottery funded expenditure involving, on one hand, the transfer to lottery funding of some support for voluntary and community bodies currently provided by the Exchequer and, on the other, the transfer to the Exchequer of support for statutory bodies now funded from the lottery. The group was satisfied that the initial impact of these changes would not involve any extra cost to the Exchequer.

This greater emphasis on voluntary and community groups is one that I welcome. Many of those involved in voluntary and community projects aided by the lottery in the past have found that the assistance provided was the catalyst to enable some very important progress to be made in the provision of facilities or otherwise. While not wishing to prejudge the outcome of the consideration of the report, the greater direction of lottery funds towards the voluntary and community sector can only help to enhance the image of the national lottery. For many years, while in Opposition, I argued strongly for this and I welcome the recommendations in the review.

Taken with other recommendations of the group for improved administration of lottery grants which I shall outline later, the group considered that such changes would contribute to a clearer picture of the uses to which lottery funding is put. In publishing the report in June 1997, the previous Minister also envisaged that publication would provide an opportunity for consultation between the relevant Departments and the voluntary and community agencies concerned.

I heartily encourage the Departments and public bodies concerned as well as the beneficiaries of lottery funding to look closely at the review group report. As I indicated earlier, the Government has not taken any final decisions in relation to the group's recommendations. One issue which the review group decided to investigate was the controversial one of how much lottery spending could be considered as substituting for Government spending and how much was additional.

While the earlier intention had been that all spending should be additional, it was decided in the late 1980s, at a time of retrenchment in public spending and particularly as the lottery had generated far more resources for the Exchequer than originally anticipated, that lottery funding should be made available to mainline expenditure programmes, especially in the health sector, which would otherwise have been curtailed or even terminated.

The review group commissioned independent research from Mr. Terry Baker of the ESRI which found that it would be reasonable to regard 50 per cent of lottery funded expenditure as additional spending. This is very much higher than figures that have sometimes been put forward. It also means, when account is taken of how lottery sales exceeded original expectations, that notwithstanding the substitution, the total amount of additional spending generated by the lottery was much greater than expected when it was set up.

The national lottery has become a part of everyday life in Ireland. It contributes approximately £100 million per annum to good causes.

The National Lottery Act, 1986, specifies that the Government decides the amounts to be spent from the beneficiary fund in each of the designated categories. The proposed expenditure is shown by Vote and subhead each year in the Estimates for public services for the various Departments concerned. If an activity is financed under the same Vote both from the lottery and from general Exchequer revenue, there are two separate subheads in the relevant Vote to make this clear.

Lottery funded expenditure is subject to the same public financial discipline and procedures as Government spending generally. In practice, the Government considers provisions for lottery funded spending during the annual Estimates process in exactly the same way as it considers the Exchequer funded expenditure. It is a matter for the Government to adjudicate on the spending proposals of those Departments which have operational responsibility for lottery funded grants and schemes.

This process helps to ensure that allocations of lottery resources reflect actual needs and priorities. It is then largely a matter for the spending Departments themselves to allocate the funds, within the approved subhead provision, among individual projects or schemes. There is full accountability to the Dáil and, especially, to the Public Accounts Committee for this spending.

It might be helpful if I briefly set out spending under the main national lottery categories which shows how much the lottery has contributed since its establishment. The figures relate to the period up to the end of 1996: health of the community and welfare £241 million; youth, sports, recreation and amenities £233 million; arts, culture and national heritage £171 million and the Irish language £52 million. These large sums have benefited every region.

In its consideration of the arrangements for the disbursement of lottery funds, the review group was mindful in particular of the recommendations made by the Committee of Public Accounts in

1994. These were aimed at ensuring as far as possible that there were standard application forms, clear criteria for making grants and adequate procedures for follow-up to ensure that the funds were spent as intended.

The detailed recommendations included the following. There should be a standard application form for lottery grants which, apart from the normal details, would, as a minimum, set out the purpose for which the grant is being sought, the number of people who benefit from the work of the organisation seeking the grant and the sources of the organisation's funding, separately identifying sources of State funding to prevent possible overlap or duplication. There should be a structured process to ensure objectivity in the evaluation of competing applications for funding by reference to agreed predetermined criteria. The recommendations of the line section in the Department should clearly show the justification for the grant and its amount. In the light of the report of the Committee of Public Accounts, the Department of Finance issued in October 1994 comprehensive revised guidelines to Departments covering all aspects of administration of national lottery grants.

There has been a sustained effort by the Government to ensure there is full public confidence in the arrangements for disbursing lottery funds. As the Department which co-ordinates financial policy and under the aegis of which the National Lottery Act, 1986, operates, the Department of Finance has set out procedures for Departments which should be followed in approving funding for lottery assisted projects to ensure best practice. These aim to ensure that clear criteria apply for each discretionary scheme, that all interested persons will have due opportunity to apply for the funding available and that all applications are treated on an equal footing.

I wish to return briefly to the review group's consideration of the question of having an independent body set up to decide lottery allocations. It has been suggested by a number of commentators that decision making for lottery surplus distribution should be devolved to an independent board or boards. Such a framework is operated, for example, in the case of the UK lottery. The view has been put that such an arrangement would facilitate the achievement of openness and transparency in lottery funding to which the review group was asked to address itself. The possibility of establishing an independent board was also mentioned in a number of the submissions made to the review group in response to its public advertisement.

The main case made in favour of an independent board is that it would remove the scope for political influence in the making of grant allocations. It has also been suggested that such a body would have a stand-alone identity which would facilitate public access to lottery funding and that it would generally be more open, more representative and fairer than the existing system. It is also argued that an independent body would display a more imaginative approach to lottery allocation. The review group acknowledged that the claimed advantages of an independent board have merit. However, the group was mindful of other considerations. In the sectors towards which lottery funding is directed, the State has a considerable involvement and infrastructure already in place. The Arts Council, Bord na Gaeilge and other such bodies or agencies, with the Departments which sponsor them, are channels through which lottery funding can be efficiently routed.

Moreover, many projects in the voluntary and community sector are both Exchequer and lottery funded. It did not appear to the group that the addition of a lottery surplus distribution board into this mix would achieve more than would reforming the procedures in line with the other recommendations in the report. It could lead to considerable incoherence in both policy making and implementation in the community and voluntary sector.

The group also felt there was no reason to believe an independent board would be better placed to adjudicate on competing demands, given that the demands generally exceed available resources. Any new board would inevitably represent a range of interests of one type or another. The one certainty is that it would raise the costs of distribution given that the current distribution system is without any charge on the lottery proceeds. The group also concluded that the current arrangements whereby Ministers are accountable to Dáil Éireann for lottery spending should be maintained. A new independent board would not be accountable to the electorate in the same direct way.

The sheer size of the annual surplus available for distribution from the lottery — approximately £100 million — means that issues of priority and of consistency with public expenditure generally must be reflected in decisions on lottery allocations.

I will summarise for Deputies the principal recommendations of the Review Group. The allocation of national lottery funds should continue to be made by the Government rather than by an independent body. The subsequent disbursement of lottery funds should be made in partnership with the voluntary and community sector.

The surplus revenues of the national lottery, other than those in the reserve fund, should, in future, be devoted entirely to the support of community and voluntary activity in the areas of youth services, sports, the arts, the Irish language, welfare, health, social services and community development. The transition would initially be carried out on the basis of no net extra cost being borne by the Exchequer.

The needs of the most disadvantaged groups within the voluntary and community sector should be prioritised in the allocation of lottery funds within individual programmes and due regard should be had to gender and regional balance.

Application procedures for support from programmes funded by the beneficiary fund should be standardised and means of access to them made more publicly visible. The Government should, from time to time, publish more details of how the funding is distributed over various sectors. Decision making on applications should reflect a commitment to the principle of partnership with the client base.

The National Lottery Act 1986 should be amended to provide for the procedures which must be followed when national lottery funds are being allocated. A process should be put in place to enable the Government to identify, from time to time, suitable major projects with an enduring impact which could be provided for from lottery resources.

A national lottery beneficiary and monitoring committee should be established to oversee the implementation of the recommendations made in the report and to maintain a continuous oversight of the disbursement of the beneficiary fund.

On the charitable lotteries fund to which I referred earlier, although it did not arise directly from the work of the review group, I am particularly pleased to be able to announce the arrangements for the operation of the £5 million charitable lotteries fund. In July 1997, the Minister for Finance moved a supplementary estimate of £5 million on the vote for finance which was approved by the Dáil. This is to provide an annual amount for a three year period from national lottery resources to supplement the income of the promoters of private charitable lotteries whose lottery products are competing directly with similar national lottery products.

As Deputies will be aware, the provision of this funding is in response to the difficulties expressed for some time by private charitable lotteries in operating within the constraints of gaming and lotteries legislation. It has long been contended by the charitable lotteries that, because of the prize restrictions which apply under the Gaming and Lotteries Act 1956, they are not in a position to market lottery products alongside the national lottery. This fund will enable a measure of support from lottery resources to be targeted at the charitable lotteries. I am happy to announce that applications for the fund are now being invited by my Department by way of advertisement in national newspapers. These advertisements appeared in the newspapers yesterday, Wednesday, 8 October.

I would like to make clear, however, that this is a very focused initiative which is intended to address the circumstances of those private lotteries which have products in the marketplace in direct competition with the national lottery. It was never intended that this fund would be a vehicle for supporting charitable fundraising generally. Such a measure would require funding greatly in excess of what is being provided.

I will outline some of the main aspects of the scheme, full details of which are now being made available to interested parties. Applications are invited from the promoters of private charitable lotteries conducted under the provisions of existing gaming and lotteries legislation which were in operation on 1 July 1997. The applications should reach my Department no later than 31 October 1997. It is intended that support from the fund will be allocated by reference to the audited gross sales of the eligible charitable lotteries.

Applications for assistance under the scheme will be evaluated by an independent committee to be set up by the Minister for Finance expressly for the purposes of advising him as to whether applications meet the eligibility criteria laid down for the scheme. Subject to the availability of funds and to the other conditions of the scheme being met, it is intended that eligible charities would be assisted in proportion to the volume of their average annual gross lottery turnover in the three most recent years of account as certified by the organisation's auditors.

The lottery promoter must be an organisation independently established for charitable purposes. Documentary evidence, such as registration with the Revenue Commissioners, will be required. The lottery tickets must be generally available to members of the public, within the area of their circulation, on a comparable basis to national lottery products.

It is the Government's intention to review the operation of the fund before the expiry of the third year's funding. Although necessarily limited in its compass, the fund should support the work of the charitable lotteries.

The general thrust of the fund is entirely in line with the central recommendation of the review group of enhanced support from the national lottery for community and voluntary agencies.

The national lottery has up to now been a great success as is evidenced by the amounts that have been made available through the beneficiary fund. As with any business, however, the national lottery has to keep abreast with developments in the market place. The lotteries market is one in which great changes are taking place, aided by the new technologies of today which create a whole new range of business opportunities.

The total gaming market is becoming more competitive in terms of the number, professionalism and image of gaming operators. It is likely that the next few years will see the introduction of many gaming opportunities that are new to Ireland. Technological developments and the falling cost of computer hardware will tend to remove some of the traditional barriers to entry into the gaming market.

With the continued interest of the European Commission in ensuring fair competition across the EU, the traditional monopoly enjoyed by state lotteries may come more into question in the years ahead. All these developments will pose a major challenge and anything which would have the effect of diminishing national lottery sales and, consequently, the surplus available for the beneficiary fund would obviously be of major concern. It will be a concern of Government, in consultation with the national lottery company, to face all of these challenges.

There has been some recent publicity on the position regarding the sale of UK lottery tickets in this jurisdiction. It is true the Department of Justice is examining concerns raised by the European Commission about the compatibility of certain sections of the Gaming and Lotteries Act, 1956, with the requirement of non-discrimination in the regulation of the operation of lotteries. The Commission's concerns, however, were stated not in relation to our position on the sale of the UK lottery tickets but on a purported prohibition by the Irish authorities on the purchase of UK premium bonds by Irish citizens.

The operation of lotteries other than the national lottery, which is provided for under the National Lottery Act, 1986, is covered by the Gaming and Lotteries Act, 1956. The Government has received legal advice regarding the sale of UK lottery tickets here. It is our view that such sales are illegal here and the Garda authorities have taken steps to advise retailers accordingly.

I thank the review group again for their excellent work and assure them that their recommendations will be fully considered by me and the Government. I look forward to a very interesting discussion during the course of this debate. I am anxious to take on board any ideas, suggestions or new approaches that Members of the House may have.

I thank the Minister of State for a full discourse on the report and for outlining the Government's intentions, in so far as it has made policy decisions on the recommendations.

As Minister for Justice in the 1980s with responsibility for the Gaming and Lotteries Act, 1956, I was involved in the initial stages of setting up the lottery. After the relevant subcommittee of the Government decided there was merit in proceeding with the national lottery, the task was assigned to former Deputy Donal Creed, the father of Deputy Michael Creed. He brought the legislation forward quickly in his capacity as Minister of State at the Department of Education.

Those of us who took the initiative thought the lottery would generate significant amounts of money. We were surprised, however, at the level of first year returns which were of an order of magnitude we had not foreseen. We quickly realised we had tapped into a source of funding in Irish life which was less painful than taxation and which gave a great return.

Initially the legislation setting up the lottery decided that all proceeds would go to sport, recreation, health and education. Its genesis was peculiar because when we set it up initially the concept was that it would be a fund for sport and sporting facilities. It was only when the money began to flow and it was clear that far more money than we had intended being dedicated to sport and community projects was coming in, that part of the proceeds were dedicated to projects run by the Departments of Health and Education.

Even though, at times of financial retrenchment in the late 1980s, lottery funds were, in effect, used to substitute for Exchequer spending, it is interesting to note that the independent group has discovered that 50 per cent of the lottery's proceeds still go to the targets for which they were intended in the first instance. That is a greater proportion than many people who debate these issues believe, and it is very significant.

I compliment Deputy Quinn who, as Minister for Finance, saw fit to set up the independent review group which was timely. Any source of funding which, over a reasonably short period, has generated £700 million must be subject to the same level of accountability, scrutiny and prudence as the expenditure of any other money that comes into the Exchequer. While by and large lottery funds have been disbursed in an accountable and transparent manner, it is time to review the matter. We are committed to transparency and greater accountability in everything we do. Therefore, it is appropriate that a review take place to ensure the rules that apply to expenditure of taxation receipts by Government Departments also apply to the receipts from the national lottery.

The lottery has been an excellent source of social funding and much good work has been done as a result of it. I am sure many members of the public will be surprised to hear that £241 million of lottery funding has been spent on health and community welfare. Youth, sport and recreational amenities, the original intention of the lottery, received £233 million, arts, culture and national heritage received £171 million and £52 million has been spent on Irish language projects.

Most Members are interested in this topic. If the Minister proceeds to amend the lottery legislation he should do so by debating the matter openly in an appropriate committee of the House with a view to reaching consensus on the heads of a Bill before taking them to Government. While this may be an unusual way to proceed, an attempt was made on a previous occasion to reach consensus on the heads of a Bill in a committee before proceeding with legislation. I am sure all Ministers with responsibility for disbursing lottery funds are inundated with representations from colleagues on all sides for funding for local GAA clubs, soccer clubs, amenity groups, cultural projects or for voluntary agencies who carry out great work in the area of health. These requests are part of the constant traffic through constituency offices of all Deputies and Senators. Therefore, in seeking to amend the legislation, as well as calling on the expert advice of the independent group, the Minister should call on the expert advice of those who have brokered lottery grants for many groups. He should rely on their advice in the first instance to formulate the heads of a Bill. If he proceeds in that manner he will probably get consensus from all sides of the House.

There were great expectations that the lottery would change the emphasis on sport and that sporting facilities would visibly improve. I am sure Deputies familiar with the disbursement of lottery funding will agree it has had little impact on sport. While an allocation of £5,000 or £7,000 to improve a local GAA pitch or to install shower rooms and toilets is the stuff of local politics, when the lottery was introduced in the 1980s people expected that a swimming pool would be built in which our international athletes could at least train. People also thought we would have a national stadium so that the Football Association of Ireland would not have to go cap in hand to the IRFU at Lansdowne Road or get involved in periodic guerrilla warfare sniping with the authorities at Croke Park to play international games here.

That is for the new millennium.

There has been great disappointment the national lottery has not provided the nation with the level of facilities we have all seen in Europe. Thanks to General de Gaulle, every French town has a stadium with a running track, in which soccer and other games are played, and a range of other amenities such as parking facilities and a fine swimming pool. That is fairly standard, even in small towns. Since the 1960s, French youth have been increasingly involved in sport and have done well on the international stage.

The welfare of a nation is not necessarily in direct proportion to the excellence of its competitive athletes — sport has a wider benefit in the areas of health and recreation, which is probably of more benefit than many of the competitive sports. However, there is disappointment in the community at large at our lack of the kind of national facilities enjoyed by other countries, and which people expected to result from the national lottery.

I am not discounting the small amounts of money given to various sporting organisations. I too have made representations to the appropriate Ministers over the years. It is always very pleasing to ring one's local rugby or GAA club to say the money is on the way. However, there is a feeling that the money has been scattered too widely. Now that facilities in local sporting clubs have been improved to the degree that one no longer has to throw one's clothes in a puddle behind the goal but can hang them up and have a shower after the match, I ask the Minister of State to focus on one, two or three national projects of which we could all be proud and from which we can all benefit.

In that respect, will the Minister of State comment on the reserve fund in the Department of Finance? My memory of that fund is that it is a very significant amount which, by any definition, is more than any group of auditors would require for reserve purposes. The Minister of State should examine that fund to see whether it could be used for millennium projects.

The Deputy must be reading my mind.

I am sure the Minister of State, assisted by his Government colleagues and the Opposition, would like to have a lash for the millennium. Is the reserve fund now £65 million or £75 million? The amount of money in that reserve fund is far in excess of what any group of auditors would require in terms of financial prudence. Will the Minister of State seriously consider using that money for a series of projects? He does not have to use it to build a big swimming pool or a national stadium but he should use it for something in the sporting area.

The Minister of State should also spend some of that money in the health area, particularly for children. If I were marking his cards, I would tell him to give some of the money to the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Cowen, to replace Temple Street Children's Hospital on the site of the Mater Hospital, so that we would have a national children's hospital on the north side of Dublin. Such a hospital will probably not be funded otherwise, from what I hear about the Estimates. If we are to do something for the millennium, we should build on what our forefathers said in the 1916 Proclamation about cherishing the children of the nation, by building a children's hospital on the north side of Dublin so that those who currently use Temple Street would have a very good modern facility for the next century.

It is very easy for the Opposition to tell Ministers how to spend money. However, the net point is valid — there is a very large reserve fund in the Department of Finance arising from the surpluses of the national lottery. Rather than spending that money on an instalment basis on little items around the country, a number of imaginative projects should be selected, such as those which I have just suggested.

The key recommendation in the report is that the expenditure of lottery money will be reorganised so that all the surpluses will be dedicated to their original intention. However, the Minister of State has said that this will result in no net increase in Exchequer spending. This is difficult to understand. Will he elaborate, because he has not fully explained what he means?

If the money which is being used at present to replace Exchequer spending in the Department of Education and the Department of Health is restored to the original intention of the lottery there is then a lot of extra expenditure. Unless the Exchequer intends to cut back on health and education services, which I do not believe is the intention, that money must be replaced. There would appear to be a hidden quid pro quo here, where projects, for example those in the health and social welfare areas, which are partly funded by the Exchequer and the lottery would have their full funding assigned to the lottery in future. That is the only method of arranging the financial swings and roundabouts to result in the position, as outlined by the Minister of State, whereby there would be no extra charge on the Exchequer.

However, this only amounts to bookkeeping. It does not fulfil public demand, which notes that approximately £700 million was accrued over the last ten years or so. In the late 1980s approximately half that money was not spent in the manner for which it was originally intended because of severe financial constraints. The proceeds of the lottery in times of difficult financial circumstances were used to replace Exchequer funding, principally in the Department of Health and the Department of Education. However, the public is now saying that when there is a good flow of money to the Exchequer and while we are not experiencing the fiscal shortages of the 1980s all the surpluses of the lottery should be used for the purposes for which they were originally intended.

The Minister's proposals appear to fall well short of that. Although he has not spelt them out he appears to be proposing that all lottery funds will be used for the purposes for which they were intended in the first instance and that shortfalls in health and education will be replaced with Exchequer funding. However, he goes on to say that this will result in no net increase in Exchequer spending. That is only possible if spending on voluntary or involuntary organisations or by statutory boards, which at present are funded by the Exchequer, will be replaced by funding from the lottery. Will he clarify the position?

When this report was published there was an expectation that all lottery funds would go to the targets for which they were intended.

That is what I intend.

That is not what the Minister of State is saying because it is not compatible with saying that there will be no net increase. Replacement funding matched by replacement funding elsewhere appears to be the intention of the Department of Finance. Will he clarify the position in his reply?

Turning to the recommendations, I agree with the recommendation that the funds should continue to be made by the Government and not by an independent body. We have been bedevilled in politics by suggesting in the House that, somehow or another, the elected representatives of the people are not to be trusted while some kind of independent body, a quango, will do the job fairly. It is as if the members of independent bodies are aliens who would not be subject to influence and who would not listen to representations. I know many independent bodies where there is more pulling and dragging and representations made than if the moneys were allocated by a Minister. The advantage of having moneys dibursed by Ministers through Departments is that they are fully accountable to the House, the Committee of Public Accounts and, ultimately, the electorate.

As parliamentarians we are foolish to be constantly casting doubts on ourselves and on our trustworthiness and transferring obligations and tasks, which are properly the tasks of Ministers and Parliaments, to so called independent bodies. I do not know anybody in this country who does not have an angle or agenda. However, that is not much different from any other country.

The notion is that a superhuman group can be established which will decide that one GAA club is a more worthy cause than another. They will decide to give the first club £6,000 but refuse to give £5,000 to the other by looking into their hearts independently and not on the basis of representations from dirty Deputies who might think one club has a better team and caters for a bigger population than the other. The result will be sterile, pure and above suspicion.

Nobody will be able to ask questions in the Dáil about it because the Minister will say such matters are handled by an independent body that has nothing to do with him. However, the Minister will appoint the chairman and all the members of the independent body and will ring the chairman every night of the week to ask if his projects will be included. I agree we should be transparent and accountable but we should forget about an independent body. Responsible Ministers should allocate the funds in accordance with the law. They will then be answerable to the House and can defend their decisions at Question Time.

The report states that surplus revenues of the national lottery other than those in the reserve fund should in future be devoted entirely to the support of community and voluntary activity in the areas of youth services, sport, arts, the Irish language, welfare, health and social services and community development. That is fine. Everybody will applaud that because it means the full £700 million will be spent rather than the £350 million spent on such causes over the past 11 years. However, the report also states that the transition will be initially carried out on the basis of no net extra cost being borne by the Exchequer. That is not possible unless traffic moves in both directions and projects funded by the Exchequer at present are funded by the national lottery in the future. Ultimately, that proposal will not result in any net new moneys being available for the causes outlined, which was the intention of the original lottery. I ask the Minister to revisit this matter and explain in greater detail what he has in mind.

The third recommendation is that the needs of the most disadvantaged groups in the voluntary and community sectors should be prioritised in the allocation of lottery funds within individual programmes and due regard should be had for gender and regional balance. I agree with this proposal. The charge has been made regarding the disbursement of lottery funds by different Ministers, including myself, that there is a regional bias. The suggestion is that if one puts drawing pins into a map of the country, one will see that the distribution closely follows the constituencies represented by members of the Cabinet. There is a lack of regional balance, particularly regarding sport, and this should be examined.

A commission reported on the disadvantages suffered by disabled people. The most disadvantaged people, who are best catered for by voluntary and community groups, are the disabled. However, the amount of money required to implement the commission's report is very large. A sum of £100 million would not go very far in implementing the commission's recommendations. The Minister should say to the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, that the notion of no extra cost being borne by the Exchequer is not a runner. He should tell the Minister for Finance that we need to free up the lottery money and replace it with Exchequer funding in the Departments of Health and Children and Education and Science.

A large tranche of the extra money freed up could be used to implement the recommendations of the commission on disability. The Minister would receive universal support in the House if the matter was approached in that manner. His action would be of great benefit to future generations. It would be a worthy project for any Minister to have his name associated with. I do not believe the recommendations of the commission on disability will be implemented in any real way in the foreseeable future because of lack of funds. The Government is committed to capping the increase in expenditure at a nominal 4 per cent. Those of us who have been in Government know how difficult the Estimates campaign will be with a 4 per cent cap. A 4 per cent cap applied to the Department of Health at present will ensure cutbacks in services. The 4 per cent cap is universal and does not have to apply to individual departments. Some will increase expenditure by more than 4 per cent and hopefully others will increase it by less than 4 per cent so that the balance can be maintained.

The recommendations of the Commission on the Status of People with Disabilities will not be implemented when the Government attempts to adhere to its fiscal targets, especially its expenditure targets. The only hope is that the Minister can free up sufficient lottery funds — not on a net sum basis — to enable that to be done. If so it will refine and give edge to the recommendation of the independent group's report that disadvantaged groups within the voluntary and community sector should be prioritised in the allocation of lottery funds. The only way there can be prioritisation is if the Minister has more money. He may be able to get more funds if an extra tranche of money is being generated by the lottery when he puts the recommendations into effect.

Application procedures for support for programmes funded by the beneficiary fund should be standardised. The means of access to them should be made more publicly visible. There are groups around the country who do not know how to apply for lottery funds and approach their local TD or councillor. Some groups are better at it than others, some are disadvantaged because they do not know how to set about it while some miss the date and have to wait another 12 months. There must be far more visibility. Some of the visibility should be by contacting the local authorities. Councillors are great brokers of any benefits which may be available. I am not saying they should have a say in the allocation but elected members of local authorities should be informed of the procedures, the cut-off dates and should be given application forms so that they can explain what is happening. That would be better than any advertisements in the newspapers. Whatever we say about our colleagues in the local authorities, we cannot accuse them of not being in touch. They are in touch with their electorate, the voluntary and sporting groups and move around in small areas. From the point of view of accountability it is absolutely necessary that the procedures are standardised and transparent and visible methods applied.

Deputies will recall a great furore was generated in one of the elections in the late 1980s by my predecessor in the Department of Health, Dr. John O'Connell, who assigned lottery funds to projects in his constituency in circumstances where no applications had been made. In terms of the spending of money he did not do anything wrong. The organisations to which he assigned the lottery funds were worthy. That they were in his own constituency makes no difference, I assigned lottery money to my constituency as well to worthy causes there. That is not the issue. The issue was that the procedure was so slipshod at that stage that money could be allocated on the signature of a Minister to groups, no matter how worthy, who had not applied. We cannot have that type of hit and miss carry on any longer in the expenditure of public money. Surpluses on the lottery are as much public money as the proceeds of taxation. It is important to have standardised procedures which would be equitable.

There should not be different sets of criteria for the disbursement of grants under section 65 of the Health Acts and discretionary money being disbursed by the Minister for Health. There has to be equity between the standards applied by the Department of Education in terms of sporting grants and those applied by the Department of Health in terms of grants to community groups. Neither can we have different standards in different sections. The best way to achieve equity is by law. If the Minister is amending the Acts, he should take on the further task of standardising procedures by way of statutory regulation. It should be laid down in law how applications should be made and processed, how voluntary groups will be made accountable and how it is proposed to ensure that subsequent to the allocation of grants they are spent for the purposes intended.

In my rather disjointed remarks I have covered most of the points I wanted to make and have commented on most of the recommendations. The National Lottery Act, 1986 should be amended to provide the procedures which must be followed when national lottery funds are being allocated. What is needed is an enabling section to allow the Minister to bring in the necessary statutory regulations to allow that to be done. A process should be put in place to enable the Government to identify from time to time suitable major projects with an enduring impact which could be provided for from lottery resources. The Minister should target the reserve fund. He is new in office, and he should know that his colleagues in Government are his rivals when it comes to spending money.

It does not take long to learn that.

There are very few friends in politics, and the interrelationship of Government Departments when it comes to getting and spending money is one of the best examples of a free market one is likely to come across. In the free market conditions let the Minister grab the reserve funds and dedicate them to two or three major projects to commemorate the millennium which are of sufficiently high profile that we will all be able to share in them and be proud of them.

I welcome the report of the Review Group on the National Lottery which was published earlier this year. This review group was established in November 1996 under the chairmanship of Mr. Niall Greene. The National Lottery commenced in 1987 and is operated by the An Post National Lottery Company. The beneficiary fund has over the years been extended to many areas of Irish life, including sport and other recreation, national culture, the arts, health, youth, welfare, national heritage and amenities. Funds were allocated by a number of different Government Departments, including the old Department of Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht, the Departments of Education, Environment, Health, and Social Welfare.

I welcome the publication of the report in the interest of openness, transparency and accountability. Openness, transparency and accountability is now an established political value in the Ireland of the 1990s. This is a good thing and is essential for modern Government in a mature democracy. I am happy we have cleaned up our act on the distribution of national lottery funds. Strict application procedures and criteria for evaluating competing applications are now in place. The National Lottery Beneficiary Fund can no longer be considered as a slush fund, which was the political charge made over the years against Ministers and Governments.

It is extremely difficult to obtain details of grant schemes funded by the national lottery. More information should be made available to groups, organisations and individuals. Some years ago I had to table 15 parliamentary questions to discover where the funds were held. Various Departments and agencies are involved. They include the Departments of Education and Science — the sports and youth affairs sections — Social, Community and Family Affairs; Health and Children, and Foreign Affairs as well as the Eastern Health Board and the Arts Council. Deputy Noonan said county councillors should be informed as a matter of course but that is the least that should be done. It appears the only people with full information at their fingertips are public representatives. It is time some of this confidential information was released to the public who should be informed how to apply for funding.

I agree with the recommendation of the review group that funds should continue to be allocated by Departments. This procedure allows for full scrutiny in the normal way by the Dáil, the Committee of Public Accounts and the media in general. The political process has a bad name but if it means anything it is the promotion of values and the allocation of funds in a democratic way. It is not necessary to establish an independent body to distribute them. Ministers and public representatives can be held accountable; Estimates are published each year while parliamentary questions can be tabled, representations made and issues raised in the Dáil. That is the most effective and transparent way of allocating funding.

National lottery funds should be seen as additional. I deplore their use in substitution for Exchequer funding. This issue is dealt with at length in the report. The public demand that national lottery funds be used for additional spending measures. In 1987 there were cutbacks in public expenditure to bring about our present economic miracle. My constituents now ask why national lottery funds are not put into hospitals. There are problems with waiting lists, accident and emergency departments and other issues in the hospitals and people are concerned about health issues and using national lottery funds in hospitals is a suggestion with some merit. However, that is not why the national lottery was set up. Normal Government financing should cater for community needs such as the health services. The report is reasonable on this point, citing a figure of 50 per cent. We must nevertheless firmly adhere to the principle that lottery funds should be used for additional spending and that substitution be kept to an absolute minimum.

The report suggests that poorer sectors spend a higher proportion of their incomes on the national lottery, a fact established in other countries also. In the interests of fair play, national lottery funds should be targeted at those in need. Funds should be given to voluntary organisations which work with disadvantaged young people, the elderly, the disabled, the homeless and the poor. Public opinion would certainly agree with this view. Although I do not want to specify golf clubs, public representatives are often asked why these and similar groups are funded when they are in a position to raise funds from their own resources.

We should adhere to the principle that those most in need should be given priority in the distribution of national lottery funds.

We are very fortunate to have such a huge voluntary sector to work in sports, health and other areas. It is particularly Irish. There is a vast army of volunteers working without pay for the good of their communities or sport which we must never take for granted. However, this is under threat in various Dublin city areas, where community life is breaking down in some cases. It is very difficult nowadays to get volunteers for committees, for example, to look after a senior citizens' complex run by the local authority and it is difficult to get volunteers to run a summer project. That is a new problem about which we must be concerned. Dublin Corporation is concerned that volunteers are not coming forward to run its senior citizen complexes. It is now looking at the possibility of introducing FÁS schemes, which would be regrettable. We must be conscious of this issue. Key funding from the national lottery for voluntary organisations is essential as only a small amount of money would result in huge dividends.

The people in voluntary work are the salt of the earth. Managers of local football teams bring teams away by coach to play matches and mothers wash the football jerseys. We must not take for granted the network of volunteers involved with young people and should support them in every way possible.

A point has been raised about when lotto jackpots reach several million pounds. Recently, the jackpot reached £7 or £8 million. Most people believe such large jackpots are immoral and there should be a cap, although those involved in the lottery say that would not comply with the spirit and ethos of the lotto game. Surely, £5 million is the same as £8 million to somebody who wins the lotto. We should decide that when the jackpot goes over £2 million, £3 million or £5 million the surplus should automatically be given to a charitable organisation. Even if somebody won £8 million, they would probably give £3 million to charity. We should look carefully at this issue which arises from time to time when there is a huge jackpot, although when it is won, the discussion dies down. We should seriously consider capping the lotto jackpot at a certain level.

It is regrettable that in late 1997 definite plans are not in place to commemorate the new millennium. We have more or less missed the boat and it is probably too late to plan anything significant at this stage. Last week the Taoiseach, in a reply to a question tabled by Deputy Durkan, informed the Dáil that he is consulting the relevant Ministers on how to commemorate the millennium and that when these consultations are complete, an announcement will be made. I am not blaming the Taoiseach but successive Governments.

Surely we should have planned in 1990 how to commemorate the new millennium. Several suggestions have been made during the discussions which have taken place. A new children's hospital for the north side of Dublin following the demolition of Temple Street Hospital and the implementation of the report of the review group on people with physical and sensory disabilities have been proposed by Deputy Noonan.

We should seriously consider how to commemorate the millennium. This country has a rich and varied history and heritage and we have much to celebrate, even in the last 100 years. The Great Famine was commemorated in a significant way and obvious planning went into that. Even at this late stage we should put our thinking caps on and decide how to commemorate the millennium. Although it is probably too late, we must salvage what we can.

The Minister said funding was made available to the Dublin millennium celebrations as I am sure it was to the European City of Culture Celebrations in Dublin in 1991.

What about the rest of the country?

The statistics show the rest of the country has probably done far better than Dublin. As Deputy Noonan pointed out, its funds are distributed in accordance with the location of Government Ministers, also illustrated by the statistics. Over the years Dublin has lost out from the point of view of Cabinet representation, on which I am sure the Dublin lobby will work in the future.

Our President, in consultation with the Government, should be allowed initiate a personal project funded by the national lottery. I have in mind a work of art, a piece of sculpture or some form of architectural project. This is the case in France where, on leaving office, the President always leaves a lasting work of art behind, which is a good thing. Indeed some of the major public works of art in Paris have been commissioned by various Presidents for which funding was provided and there are no begrudgers there in that respect. The French appreciate the many imaginative projects commissioned by former Presidents which remain for the enjoyment of future generations. The time has come when we should allow our President to do likewise. I do not suggest that this facility be afforded a Taoiseach when no doubt all sorts of political begrudgery would come to the fore.

I hope the Minister will seriously examine that suggestion in the case of the President within the context of the forthcoming presidential election. A very civilised gesture for the future would be welcomed.

Dr. Upton

With the agreement of the House I should like to share some of my time with Deputy Deenihan.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Dr. Upton

This well thought out, valuable report is welcome. It illustrates how the national lottery functions and advances a number of recommendations on how its administration and distribution could be improved. Some of the difficulties encountered in its operations arise from its outstanding success, way beyond the expectations held at the time of its establishment. In his study of the national lottery Brian Harvey resorted to extracts from debates on the subject in both Houses of the Oireachtas, some of whose Members were quite farseeing in the manner in which they envisaged it developing, anticipating some difficulties, while others were not. Certainly, with the benefit of hindsight, those debates make interesting reading.

Some of the difficulties arose from the amounts of money collected from national lottery funding being way in excess of what had been anticipated. If my memory serves me correctly, there were forecasts of its annual yield being of the order of £1 million, with a ceiling of the order of perhaps £10 million expected to be the maximum. I do not have to remind Members that the yield has been much greater. Those small expectations for the lottery gave rise to some of the difficulties as did the behaviour of certain politicians and others.

An aspect of the lottery which has been a source of considerable irritation to me over the years is the inadequacy of information on the spending of lottery funds. It is almost impossible to carry out a per capita population analysis of lottery expenditure with the exception of moneys spent by the Department of the Environment. Brian Harvey's study refers to some agencies who used the Official Secrets Act as grounds for not giving information on the spending of lottery funds. I accept it may be difficult to make such information available but resorting to the Official Secrets Act is unacceptable. It is difficult to identify lottery funds when they are part of a general pool of funds, including funds from other agencies.

The funding channelled through the Department of the Environment is easily traced. I have spent some time doing that and I was pleased to hear Deputy Ring refer to this matter, particularly in relation to Dublin. I have no doubt Deputy Haughey, Deputy Hayes and myself, along with our other colleagues from Dublin, will be anxious to peruse that data with Deputy Ring and other Deputies representing the west.

I would be delighted. It will be like the EU funds.

Deputy Upton, without interruption.

Dr. Upton

I am particularly looking forward to the response of Deputy Ring and others who represent the west to the fact that Dublin, which accounts for 29 per cent of the population, received 21 per cent of lottery funds in the period 1978-94. I do not have the figures for Connacht but I hope I am correct in saying that Connacht represents approximately 15 per cent of the population yet it has received 19 per cent of lottery funds. That is the type of data that pleases Deputy Ring and I know it will discourage him from putting on the poor mouth about the west.

To hell with Connacht is the attitude in Dublin.

Dr. Upton

I am sure he will go back to his constituency and read out those figures at various meetings and in the local media. They are a tribute to his success. I can tell Deputy Ring, however, that I and my colleagues from Dublin intend to address this problem as a group because it is important that any differential is corrected.

It is difficult to determine the position in relation to the disbursement of other lottery funds. I would like to see data produced on where lottery funds are collected. I assume the purchase of lottery products is uniform per head of population, but I do not know. Such data is available to the lottery officials and I would like to see it published. It may not deviate much from the national pattern but it would be interesting to know the reason some areas buy more lottery products than others. It would be interesting also to examine the data in relation to the social structure of certain areas in respect of lottery funding. I understand some research has been carried out but I would like to see this area more closely examined. I support the recommendation that a monitoring committee to oversee all aspects of spending be established. Such a committee could assess the effects of the lottery on society. I am not suggesting that it has a profound or enduring effect on society but it would be beneficial to assess its effects.

The lotto seems to be operated on the principle of magic. It is a triumph of magic over reason. However, if people analysed the lotto they would not invest in it as the chances of winning are considerably less than the chances of a roof falling on them.

It did not fall on us this week.

Dr. Upton

I am glad Deputy Power intervened as he is a bookie and people who invest in games of chance would do well to remember that they will get a better return from him than from the lotto.

The culture of the lotto enhances the notion of magic. While an exceptional interest is shown in lottery winners, no attention is paid to the losers. Why have no in-depth interviews been held with people who lose on the lotto every week?

I think we are listening to one of them.

Dr. Upton

I have only ever bought one lotto ticket and the reason I did so was to examine the fine print.

Then the Deputy does not deserve to win money.

If one does not buy tickets one cannot win.

Dr. Upton

I do not play the lotto. Maybe the reason for this is that I have never recovered from a course I did in statistics some years ago. The lotto stimulates and enhances the culture of illusion and some people seem to believe there is a reasonable chance of it coming good for them. However, the chances of this happening are negligible.

It is time someone put the other side of the argument. It may be possible to run an advertising campaign to counter the advertising campaign run by the lotto. This campaign could ask people, "Will you waste more money on the lotto this week?" There is nothing wrong with people putting forward the other side of the argument. The lotto places much emphasis on advertising. The Millennium clock in the Liffey was a mishap and I will not heap abuse on people who engage in that kind of promotion. However, I would like to see the scales tilted in the other direction and more emphasis placed on people who have been losing money every week since 1987. A group photograph of these people could be taken in an appropriate location, for example, Croke Park.

Mr. Hayes

They could be given champagne.

Dr. Upton

Every one of them could be given a bottle of champagne.

It has been stated that the lottery has been used as a political slush fund. I will not go down the road of shallow criticism of the political process which is under enough pressure without Deputies joining the attack. It is time we got together and defended our profession instead of trying to exploit each other's weaknesses. The effect of such attack damages the body politic and undermines people's confidence in it. That may fine in the short term, but it is another matter when it reaches the stage that the public might lose complete confidence in it. I am not saying we are next or near that, but more attention should be given to it.

The carry on of some people in regard to the lottery is bizarre or eccentric. People have come to me with lottery grant cheques made out to non-existent organisations. That type of behaviour is over the top and gives the process a bad name. I do not want to draw conclusions from that type of behaviour, but care should be taken to avoid it.

It is important to clarify the application process for lottery funding. Many people seem to be ignorant of how to apply for lottery funds. It would be appropriate to establish a central agency which could advertise for lottery applications from time to time and inform people about the application process. The applications could be processed centrally and, if need be, forwarded to the appropriate Department. It is undesirable that there is a deficit of information about that process.

It would also be desirable to have a list of who has applied and who has been given lottery funding. The Department of Finance produced a tome which contains all the information available on lottery funding up to l994 or l995. It is useful and I compliment the Department on compiling it, but it should be updated on an annual basis or, if that would require an inordinate amount of time, every three or four years.

The lottery lacks any great strategy. No real thought has been given to the objectives of lottery funding, whether it is desirable, how funding is allocated and used or the alternatives. I am not aware of any debate on a long-term plan for the lottery or of any studies on how lottery funding was spent. I do not know if the public get value for money. Lottery funds have amounted to approximately £600 or £700 million. That is a good deal of money and it would be appropriate to analyse how it was spent to ascertain if value for money was obtained. I am not advocating a witch hunt but some analysis should be carried out now that the lottery has been operating for ten years. I am sure some of the money was spent wisely, but some of it might not have been. What control mechanism exists to ensure the money is well spent? What review process exists? Are lottery projects analysed when the project money has been expended to ascertain if they were good, bad or indifferent?

I agree with Deputy Haughey on the large jackpot. That is more of the philosophy of magic. The bigger the jackpot the more money people spend, but statistics show they have less chance of winning. It is paradoxical that the more one pays into the lottery, the less chance one has of winning. There is a case to be made for limiting the size of the jackpot.

It would be worthwhile analysing what has become of those who won the lottery. There is a pool of lottery winners who could provide a broad picture of how their lives have changed as a result of their win. I am sure many of them have used the money wisely, but some of them may have been overwhelmed as a result of their win. It may seem paradoxical that an individual could be overwhelmed by winning a great deal of money but there is anecdotal evidence that winning the lottery can have a deleterious effect even in the medium term — after the excitement wears off many problems are created. We should analyse this to see what effect it has had on people's lives. Hardly anyone would refuse the huge sums of money earned but it would be worthwhile to discover what became of the winners.

I thank Deputy Upton for sharing his time. The lottery has been an outstanding success and despite criticism over the last ten years it has been beneficial to many communities and organisations and the country as a whole. When we had a major balance of payments difficulty, the lottery kept many services going. In your time as Minister for Health, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, you would have seen this at first hand. Most of the money has been used wisely.

When the lottery was introduced in the 1980s I was among those who highlighted the major need for it. I was interested in the lottery because of my sporting background and position as a physical education teacher. I saw at first hand that the level of provision for sport and recreation was totally inadequate. I hoped there would be a bonanza for that sector following the introduction of the lottery but in the Seanad I expressed grave concern that the categories at which spending would be directed were too broad, too vague, not tight enough and open to interpretation. Other categories were added later. The way the lottery was used initially and the abuse by certain politicians of the allocations gave it a bad image, which was unfortunate. Some Government Ministers led pipe bands into villages to present a cheque at a community hall.

Is Deputy Deenihan talking about Tír na nÓg?

That did happen and one of those Ministers later lost his seat. This proves the point that even if one goes around distributing cheques, the electorate will see the cynicism involved. At this stage all politicians realise there are no votes in abusing lottery funds.

I am glad the Deputy included all politicians in that.

Local clubs realise this money is coming from lottery contributions and feel that, as long as they submit a proper application, they are entitled to funding. That is as it should be. A certain maturity has now emerged. All of us in the House now agree with the procedures and the recommendations of the review group. Deputy Noonan made a strong case for allowing the Departments to keep control and asked why it should be given to an independent body. At the end of the 1980s I argued for an independent body because of the abuses of the lottery, but my view has now changed.

It is important the various Departments distribute the funds and be held accountable so that we do not have to use an independent body. This would be just setting up another bureaucracy, leading to greater expense and probably depriving more small voluntary groups of much needed funding. When I was a Minister of State in the then Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry, we enlisted the help of consultants in allocating Leader funds. They examined the various applications and advised the Department officials on the level of allocation for each group. That was very successful because it made it easy for me and my officials to say that funds were allocated on the objective advice of consultants. It would be very welcome if there were some such procedure to take such matters out of the hands of the Minister and leave it to officials, in consultation with an expert, to make the decisions.

One of the points I made in the 1980s was that if money was distributed like confetti, the national lottery would not be identified with any flagship projects. I mentioned the need, for example, for a 50 metre swimming pool. It may seem grandiose but we should also have a national stadium. Despite all the hysteria created by Jack Charlton and the Irish soccer team and the successes we have had in various sports since, we still do not have a national stadium and that is very unfortunate. The national lottery has provided us with £700 million for discretionary funding. Surely at this stage, even in partnership, we should at least have two flagship projects, a 50 metre pool and a national stadium accommodating soccer and other sports. We have lost out on this. In England, the great contribution the lottery has made to the arts can be seen in two national concert halls and a national theatre. It is important in this country that we examine such major projects and I hope that, with the reserve fund, we will be able to identify projects for the millennium so that the national lottery can be identified not only with small community projects but major flagship ones as well.

I agree with Deputy Upton that there should be a requirement for development programmes. For example, the GAA in Kerry has benefited considerably over the years from lottery funding. Several clubs have benefited, including mine. The GAA should present a five year development programme incorporating submissions from the various clubs stating exactly what they want to do and what is needed in their locality, for example such as a need for a centralised floodlit pitch rather than each club in a small area having such pitches. There should be more demand for the provision of such programmes than at present. I suggested in the 1980s that there should be national programmes that the national lottery could co-operate with so the position as regards facilities would be made clear.

I know there was a proposal at one stage to provide a national indoor stadium and regional facilities but that came to nought. The national sports stadium on the docks was abandoned, possibly because the philosophy was that there would be more money for providing community facilities and that distributing the money over a broader area might have greater political advantage than a flagship project. Consideration should be given at this stage to the provision of flagship projects. I appeal to the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation to stress the need for a 50 metre swimming pool and a national stadium.

In order to protect the credibility of the national lottery, there should be more public information on the availability of funding. Clubs with good officers seem to obtain one, two or three tranches of national lottery funding whereas neighbouring clubs might not have a good committee and, despite needing funding, may not get it. I suggest leaving the adjudication to the various Ministers and Departments, but having some system whereby expert consultants would make decisions with the officials and forward their recommendations to the Minister. He or she would then be accountable but the political pressure would be reduced.

Deputy Upton mentioned evaluation. It is important that the effects and benefits of the lottery be assessed at this stage. Clubs and communities that received funding for projects ten years ago should be revisited to see if they are maintaining these facilities or if they have been allowed to deteriorate. A national review of the lottery should be carried out at this stage to see if we are getting value for money and if communities respect the facilities provided. That is very important.

As regards the provision of sporting facilities, there should be greater co-operation between the Department of Education and Science and local communities towards the provision of sporting facilities on school grounds or as close to them as possible. Community facilities are provided in isolation about a mile away from schools whereas there is scope to provide them on school grounds or adjacent to them. Because of the weather and for other reasons, teachers cannot walk a mile to a community facility. Officials should take on board the important consideration that there should be greater co-operation between the Department of Education and Science and local communities in providing community facilities as close to schools as possible, so that schools can use them during the day and the community in the evening.

It is very important we encourage the continued and future success of the lottery. Much of the criticism of the institution and the damage done to it originated in this House and was caused by politicians criticising it and abusing its funds. It is very important and behoves us at this stage to ensure we support the lottery and encourage its future success because it is so important, especially for voluntary and community groups. I agree with Deputy Haughey that voluntary work is under a lot of pressure. It is very difficult to find people who will work in sporting organisations for young people. Such people are at risk for various reasons; they feel vulnerable if asked to mind young people in sporting clubs, etc. The lottery should support these volunteers as much as possible. The core recommendation in the report, that more money should be directed at community and voluntary activity, is very important. The positive nature of this debate and its positive nature has been very welcome.

I wish to refer to the lottery in the context of gambling. The Irish gambling market has changed dramatically in the past decade due in some respects to a reduction in duty on off-course betting but particularly to the establishment of the national lottery. Further change is inevitable as the State-owned national lottery vies with the private sector gambling market for market share and the spread of new communication technology generates competition at European and global level.

The national lottery is ten years in existence. At the time of its establishment there were great expectations. A number of people expressed serious concern about its effect on our citizens, but ten years down the road everybody will accept it has been a greater success than could have been imagined. In view of that success it is unfortunate it has not had the impact it should have had in terms of distributing funds. Major changes should be made in that regard. An overall strategy should be implemented rather than the haphazard approach adopted up to now in handing out funds to clubs and organisations. I am not making a political point. All parties with the exception of the Green Party have been in Government in recent years and we have all seen the way lottery funds have been distributed.

I welcome the recommendation of the review group that the Government should continue to allocate the lottery surplus rather than transfer the function to an independent body. The word "surplus" should be omitted because, when prizes are paid out and expenses met, all lottery money should be allocated as promised when the national lottery was set up. The Department of Finance should not use lottery money for its own purposes or for other projects. When the lottery was established we were promised it would be used mainly for the benefit of sport, youth recreation, arts and culture and the Irish language. Health was included at a later stage and I have no difficulty with that. Anyone who visits hospitals will realise they are badly in need of money and they will never have enough. It is an area much in need and funds should continue to be made available for health.

A major threat hangs over the lottery. The Minister dealt with this matter in the context of the UK lottery. With the opening up of Europe it will become increasingly difficult for us to keep out foreign lotteries. I am not sure how much thought has gone into this matter, but one sure way of protecting the national lottery would be to introduce a ceiling on winnings. Every time the lottery exceeds £2 million people involved in various organisations that compete with the lottery object to the fact that the prize money is so large and say that £1 million should be the maximum prize winnings. Deputy Haughey said that for most people there is no difference between £8 million and £5 million, and that is true. The Government should seriously consider introducing a ceiling of perhaps £2 million or £3 million on lottery winnings. In that context foreign lotteries would not be as attractive here.

When the national lottery was established I applied for a franchise to sell lottery tickets but my application was not successful. I know many other bookmakers who were in the same boat. Bookmakers' offices are not allowed sell lottery tickets. If we compare the way the Government deals with the lottery with the way it deals with bookmaking, it leaves a lot to be desired. Gambling must be considered by the Government not only as a source of tax revenue but, more importantly, from the perspective of the provision of a consumer commodity for which there is widespread public demand.

Studies carried out up to a few years ago considered gambling as almost evil. For example, under the Betting Act, 1931, there are restrictions on the setting up of a betting office — the building must be a certain distance from schools and places of worship, alcohol cannot be consumed on the premises and so on. With the operation of the lottery, there are more than 3,500 scratch card agents throughout the country, many of them public houses, whereas the Betting Act, 1931, discourages the sale of alcohol in gambling halls. There are many anomalies in legislation and regulation in the operation of betting offices and gaming and lotteries. One must be 18 years or more to enter a betting office whereas one can enter a gaming hall at 16 years. There is also a difference in terms of business hours.

I raised previously the updating of the Betting Act, 1931. The Garda realise how ridiculous it is and does not enforce it as it should be enforced. If it was properly enforced many betting offices would have to close down. That matter needs to be addressed urgently. In terms of gambling and lotteries where the State versus the private sector, it is important that there be a level playing pitch.

There has been much talk in recent years about opening a casino in the Phoenix Park. I was always led to believe that casinos are more or less illegal here. I read an article in Ireland on Sunday last Sunday written by Rachel Borrill about the hidden Ireland. The article read:

It sounds like a seedy den in downtown Bangkok — fortunes are thrown away on the spin of a wheel. Rachel Borrill took her chances in one of Dublin's few side street gambling clubs.

I am not sure how many more seedy dens there are in Dublin but perhaps the matter should be investigated as we cannot continue to turn a blind eye in this regard. The article claimed that there were over 5,000 members and £1,000s being won and lost each night at this casino. The club is extremely security conscious and everything is captured on film. If there are over 5,000 members it must not have escaped the attention of those in authority and perhaps the matter will be addressed.

Earlier speakers resisted the opportunity to point the finger at Members opposite and be too critical of the manner in which lottery money has been disbursed. From my experience, many organisations are not sure how to apply for grants, whether they meet the relevant criteria or what funding is available. It is important to clarify these matters. Soccer, football and rugby organisations are well organised but perhaps we should deal with them at higher levels and pass on information to clubs outlining exactly what is available.

There are voluntary organisations in every village in which people give of their time to provide a service which is not fully appreciated. These services give great benefit to their areas and were it not for them and the voluntary contributions made by their members the drug problem would be far worse. The funds at our disposal from the national lottery give us an opportunity to assist these people in the tremendous work they are doing and encourage young people to become involved in more active pastimes. We should encourage participation in sport. One often sees pupils who do not excel academically but who are able to express themselves through sport. This is important for personal development and it is money well spent. It would be difficult and expensive to treat these people for drug addiction at a later stage.

I question the manner in which lottery funds have been disbursed to the extent that they should have had a greater impact and been more beneficial. I would like to see an overall strategy developed. We need some major developments in our sporting infrastructure. A 50 metre swimming pool and a national indoor arena have been spoken of. Unfortunately, we allow a situation to develop in which we ignore the necessity for these facilities. It is only when an athlete returns from the Olympics with a medal and complains about training facilities in Ireland that we accept the need to do something. Promises are made to improve facilities which will lead to more medals but after a week or two the idea is put on the back burner.

The National Stadium and many of the facilities in which our sports stars have to train leave much to be desired. These athletes are at a disadvantage before they even begin to compete internationally. There have been many cases in which our sports stars have had to go abroad to train. We are a small country and we cannot be expected to provide the same facilities which are available in the US. However, as a Parliament and Government we must encourage more young people to participate in sport and the arts. We have an opportunity to provide some of these badly needed facilities.

When one speaks to Ministers in charge of disbursing lottery funds it is unfortunate to discover that they do not know what moneys are available from one year to the next. There is a need for a long-term strategy. We must prioritise some facilities so that people know the amount of money which will be provided for, for example, an indoor sporting arena or swimming pool. We also need to put moneys aside to deal with smaller projects which could not be funded in a single year. The practice has been to award a major lottery grant of, for example, £50,000, to one organisation in each county. If there was a system which included more long-term planning more clubs would benefit. It is often the case that when £5,000 or £10,000 is awarded to a club it does little more than recognise their application. There are very ambitious projects being undertaken by some sporting organisations. The national lottery has benefited the country and given recognition and assistance to many clubs. However, if it was examined more seriously and a more long-term approach adopted to distribution it would be more beneficial.

I agree with the recommendation that the Government should continue to allocate lottery funds. Deputy Noonan spoke about an independent body. Over the past few years this House has passed legislation in which we have given responsibility to other people rather than accepting it ourselves. This may have contributed to the way in which the public view politicians. If we do not feel capable of disbursing funds in an even-handed manner it is difficult for those outside to have any other view of us.

Mr. Hayes

I wish to share my time with Deputy Ring.

I welcome this debate and congratulate the review group on the national lottery for their timely and excellent report. It is specific, to the point and proposes a number of recommendations which I encourage the Government on a cross-party basis to take on board and implement either by way of amending the 1986 legislation or by ministerial order.

A trait of the debate this morning has been the cross-party support for the lottery which is reflected in the attitude of people outside the House. Successive opinion polls endorse the view that there is widespread public support for the lottery, both for the game and for the good causes it supports. This is important. The ingredient behind the success of the national lottery has been the support given to it by the people. When first introduced in 1986 by the Government led by Mr. Garret FitzGerald few politician or commentators predicted that it would yield the level of finances for good causes, including sporting and voluntary organisations, which it has over the past 12 years. This success is to be welcomed and reinforced.

A key aspect of the national lottery is the manner in which it allows people to participate in supporting good causes. There is a chance to strike it lucky and to participate in that awful RTÉ show on Saturday night, most of whose participants seem to be from Deputy Ring's constituency, but there is also an opportunity to contribute to good causes. We need to encourage and endorse this because, as Deputy Haughey pointed out, people are giving less and less of their time to voluntary organisations, a trend evident over the past ten years. The number involved in voluntary organisations such as sporting and drama groups is declining. We are sometimes afraid to admit that people, mostly of my generation, are not becoming involved. This is leading to serious difficulties for voluntary organisations. The national lottery is a way in which we can directly support those organisations.

The original legislation clearly stated that at least 40 per cent of the total pool of money collected by the national lottery should be given out in prize funds. However, the report reveals a worrying trend over the past six or seven years of up to 50 per cent being given out in prize funds. In 1986 it was approximately 43 per cent. Is there a legislative means of dealing with this problem? More and more money is being given out in huge prize funds. I accept that one of the motivations people have for playing the lottery is to win on a grand scale. However, I agree with colleagues who say it is ridiculous for one person to win sums such as £2.2 million. Deputy Upton referred to the negative effects such prize funds can have on people. I know of one man who spent his winnings within two years and is still asking how he managed to do so. He is now back on social welfare. The negative impact of winning such a huge amount of money has to be calculated. We should draw back from the 50 per cent level to the 40 per cent envisaged in the legislation. I would support a legislative means of doing this.

In the late 1980s a policy decision was taken by Government to divert a substantial amount of national lottery moneys to the health and community welfare sector. Moneys were hived off to provide direct funding for programmes within various Departments, letting the Government of the hook. I understand why this was done given the difficult economic situation in the late 1980s. However, the reverse is now true, the good times are here. Why are we continuing to adhere to that policy? Given that the economy has improved in recent years it is time to change the policy. This is one of the clear recommendations of the review committee. It is time for the lottery to return to its original objective, namely, the provision of moneys to sport, youth, community and arts groups. I ask the Government to take this recommendation on board.

An excellent idea from an all-party committee of the House in 1989 was that local authorities should have a degree of discretion in terms of funding various organisations and that a block grant should be provided by the Government from the national lottery for this purpose. I am in favour of this proposal. The Government and Opposition routinely say they are in favour of giving more power to local authorities. This is an opportunity to give local authorities the responsibility for disbursing national lottery moneys. If we are serious about decentralisation and giving more power to local authority members, we should give them the responsibility they deserve. There is a massive pool of money available through the national lottery. Local authority members constantly allude to the fact that they do not have the financial resources at their disposal for their local community. I encourage the Government to take on board this all-party recommendation of 1989 which is included in the review committee's report. If the Government does not decide to do so, prioritised lists should be submitted by local authorities regarding projects that should be supported in each area. If we are serious about giving more autonomy to local authorities we should consider that proposal.

I agree with comments about giving autonomy to politicians to spend this money. The national lottery was set up by the Houses of the Oireachtas in 1986. Politicians are responsible for who gets what in our society and we should say that in public. I agree with Deputy Upton that politicians feel they must apologise for making such decisions because of the malicious views currently circulating about politics and politicians. We were elected to do this job and will continue to do it. I congratulate the review group for having the courage to say that, because review committees often do not have the courage to support Members of this House when determining who gets what in our society.

Dublin projects have not received sufficient national lottery funding. Deputy Upton correctly pointed out that 29 per cent of the population live in the capital city but it only received 21 per cent of funding. People in the Dublin region would benefit substantially if a Dublin lottery was established on the same basis as in parts of the United States. One part of my constituency, for example, which serves 75,000 people has an athletics club but no athletics track. I know of two all-weather tracks in the country which serve 20,000 and 30,000 people respectively. There must be better planning of sports facilities because Dublin is not getting its fair share.

I thank Deputy Hayes for sharing his time with me. I hope he spends more money on lottery tickets than Deputy Upton. If people are not prepared to buy a ticket, they should not get a proportion of the money being allocated. The Deputy cannot argue his point when he has only bought one ticket in ten years. People in the west do not have much money but they are not afraid to gamble and speculate. People have won large sums of money in the past and they are not afraid to spend it.

I welcome this report. I am glad the review group made a recommendation about local authorities. I agree with Deputy Hayes that politicians should make no apology for deciding who gets what in our society. Members may have to table ten or 12 parliamentary questions to get a reply because civil servants do not know how to answer a question directly, although they know how to do so indirectly. When a question is submitted to the Department, officials wonder about an ulterior motive. There is no ulterior motive; we are only looking for information. I wish Departments would give straightforward replies so that Deputies do not have to table numerous questions.

There was much debate about the national lottery when it was set up. People in my constituency thought sport would be its main beneficiary, however, it was not. People are concerned that funding is going everywhere except into sport. The Minister said that health services received £241 million. I welcome that because the sick are the weakest in our community. I do not care where the money comes from as long as services are improved. Youth, sports, recreation and amenities received £233 million, while arts, culture and national heritage received £171 million. There is only a small minority of people involved in organising arts festivals, yet they received a substantial amount of money. I also welcome the allocation of £52 million under the category "the Irish language". Perhaps the Minister could tell me if that money is for Teilifís na Gaeilge or to promote the Irish language.

Other speakers mentioned sporting organisations and those who do voluntary work, such as bringing young people to football and swimming. They find it difficult to get £5,000 or £10,000 from the national lottery. Sporting organisations, schools and voluntary groups are not trying to defraud the State. They want money to build football pitches, playgrounds, etc. and they put a lot of time and effort into filling out forms and producing tax clearance certificates. However, it often takes two years from the time they apply for grants until they get their money. The Minister should use his power to make it easier for people to draw down money.

There are no lottery machines in big towns, such as Kilmaine and Ballintubber. This reminds me of the time when people in the Westport area could only get the Irish Independent in two or three shops because it was operated by a monopoly. I am glad that is no longer the case. People must travel many miles to play the national lottery. The national lottery should install more machines, particularly in scattered areas in rural Ireland. I would like to see the UK lottery being played as that would result in machines being installed in every shop. We would have no difficulty with people from Northern Ireland putting machines in the South in the same way that we have no difficulty watching English television channels, although we do not like paying for them.

I wish to share my time with Deputy Hanafin.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

I received a fax this morning from St. Kevin's Boys Club asking how it could access lottery funds. I have to meet a delegation this afternoon which wants to discuss a similar issue. I also received a letter from a nun in Ballymun asking how she could get money for courses she is running for mothers.

I welcome the open-mindedness of the Minister's contribution. There seems to be cross-party agreement to revise some of the mechanisms used to disburse lottery funding. The national lottery is generally viewed as an unqualified success. From the perspective of a lottery being primarily established to generate a new source of funding to support certain specified schemes, I can only concur with that assertion. One could argue that the lottery has diverted funds from other deserving charities — many Members adverted to that fact — or that it is disproportionately supported by the less well off sectors of society. However, these arguments have been well aired in the past and I do not propose to dwell on them.

The fund-raising ability of the national lottery has surpassed all expectations. First year sales were five times greater than projected. In 1996, approximately £100 million was remitted to the Exchequer for allocation through the national lottery beneficiary fund. By any stretch of the imagination this is a substantial amount of money. It is incumbent on us to ensure that the funds are allocated to the correct project areas, allocated to the right groups in these areas and disbursed on the basis of necessity of need.

I welcome the report of the review group on the national lottery which raises many salient points. It makes a number of clearly justifiable recommendations but there are a number of areas I wish to explore in depth. These include the question of additionality and substitution, namely, is the funding raised by the lottery being used for its original purpose or is it merely replacing normal Exchequer? Should the allocation of grants from the national lottery beneficiary fund be assessed by a new and completely independent body or remain the preserve or various Departments and should allocation criteria be changed in ways that favour disadvantaged groups and areas?

The review group pointed out that the initial legislation provided that certain categories — sport and recreation, national culture, the arts and community health — should be supported from the beneficiary fund. Further categories such as youth, welfare, national heritage and amenities were later included. It must be stated that groups involved in the areas of youth, community and sport found it difficult to get their toes in the door.

The Government and its Departments decide the amount to be spent from the fund on each designated category. The original and expressed intention of the lottery was to provide for additional expenditure in specific areas, not merely to substitute for existing Exchequer expenditure. This policy was changed in the late 1980s and early 1990s coinciding with the major retrenchment in public spending. Such a policy shift was arguably justifiable at that time because, as another Member stated, few people would argue that the need to reduce hospital lists was a worthwhile redirection of funds. However, the substitution of lottery funding for normal Exchequer expenditure has become the accepted norm. In effect, the national lottery beneficiary fund has become a Government expenditure slush fund.

A report by Brian Harvey in 1995 was very critical of the level of substitution involved in lottery funding. His report concluded that additionality amounted to only 7 to 11 per cent and that the voluntary and community sector received only 37 per cent of the funding. The Department of Finance argued the basis of the findings arrived at in the Harvey report and a second report by Terry Baker of the ESRI estimated that additionality was more in the order of 50 per cent. Even if the findings of the Baker report, estimating additionality at 50 per cent, are accepted, it could be argued that at a time of buoyant Exchequer receipts we should be striving for a greater percentage than this. Government Exchequer returns are running in the order of £700 million above the projection for 1997. Surely we should not allow lottery funding to be used as a substitute for what is termed "normal Government expenditure". The original intention of the lottery was to provide a source of funding for areas that would not qualify for normal Government expenditure. We should be adamant that this intention is adhered to in the current economic climate.

A key recommendation of the review group is that the Government should continue to allocate the lottery surplus rather than transfer this function to an independent body. I probably disagree with a number of previous speakers in this regard. A decision was made to preserve the status quo, the Government continued to allocate the funds and reasons were devised to justify this position. There are a number of valid reasons for awarding the allocation of funding to an independent body. Not only would this remove the scope for political influence in issuing grant allocations, it would also remove temptation on the part of Departments to use the lottery as a slush fund for normal Government expenditure. During his contribution, the Minister of State adverted to this matter in an oblique way. I will deal with his remarks later.

Another valid reason for transferring allocation powers to an independent body is that the public should perceive the distribution process as being transparent, open and fair. In the present climate, the body politic must be also seen in this light. One of the reasons advanced by the review group for not recommending the establishment of an independent body is that the State has sufficient bodies and agencies in place through which it can effectively channel lottery funding. It also argued that an independent body would duplicate the functions currently carried out by Departments. This argument is fundamentally weak. At times a separate body can bring focus and dedication to carrying out a function which may not be accomplished as effectively when performed by a number of Departments. I cite the National Treasury Management Agency and Temple Bar Properties as examples of this. The functions of both these bodies could have been performed by the relevant Departments but I question whether they would have been carried out as effectively or efficiently.

I wish to make a number of proposals on how the national lottery beneficiary fund should be disbursed. Several research projects have discovered that less well off sections of society spend disproportionately more on the lottery than others. A case can, therefore, be made that areas of disadvantage should also benefit more. I also propose that, in the same way the European Union classified areas of disadvantage for economic aid, we should classify certain areas for greater amounts of lottery funding. The review group points out that surveys and attitudes to lottery expenditure indicate a widespread view that those in need should benefit more.

Areas classified as disadvantaged should receive a greater proportion of lottery funds and there should be a greater flexibility in the percentage of the project cost funded. I further propose that an allocation be made to each local authority. Deputies who are members of local authorities will, in recent years, have had the experience of drawing up a list of projects which deserve funding and passing it on to the Department of the Environment or elsewhere. These lists have disappeared and a mish-mash list of projects have issued in their place. We only discover the amount of funding allocated to our areas after grants have been allocated to local groups. That is not good practice and it should be discontinued.

I suggest that each local authority be given a budget for allocation in its area of jurisdiction according to clearly defined criteria. I do not suggest that money be simply thrown at projects. Local authorities and elected councillors understand and appreciate the workings and needs of the local and voluntary sector. Not only would local groups benefit under this proposal, there is a wider principle at stake, namely, local democracy through devolving of real power to local authorities.

I welcome the review group's main recommendation which, as the Minister of State indicated is that "the allocation of lottery resources should be directed entirely to the support of voluntary and community activity. This would be intended to bring about a much closer association, than has been the case heretofore, of lottery support with a wide range of services and activities at the heart of the community". I applaud that change of direction. The need for objectivity and transparency in the evaluation and granting of lottery funds must be restored.

At the turn of the century when people spoke of a dream, it was that referred to by Padraig Pearse when he asked "O wise men, riddle me this what if the dream come true?" Today that dream is centred not on a national aspiration but on a personal aspiration focused on the movement of 42 coloured balls each Wednesday and Saturday evening. Like Pearse the majority have "Squandered the splendid years that the Lord God gave to my youth in attempting impossible things". Even if they succeed, they may discover that they cannot realise their dream.

The winner of last night's £1.5 million "Lotto" draw could not have purchased the house in my constituency which yesterday sold for £2.3 million. Yet it is a live dream — a dream which generated £307.8 million in lottery spending in 1996 alone. We need to focus not on the prize money but on whether people who are spending money on the lotto can afford it, and whether the proceeds are spent in a manner which benefits those who need it most.

The profile of lottery participants indicates that all sections of society participate in the lotto. The average weekly spending by a lottery participant is £3.11p. However, £3 from a TD's salary compares proportionately badly to £3 from the income of a person on a pension or social welfare allowance. Almost 70 per cent of skilled, semiskilled and unskilled workers are reported as regular players, compared with 54 per cent of the upper middle class, professionals, related groups and farmers. This is backed by international data.

The lottery is a form of voluntary taxation offered by people whose aim is to achieve a style and status denied them. It is our responsibility, and it should remain, as recommended, the responsibility of the Government, to ensure that the disbursement of lottery funds should benefit those who are the greatest contributors and those most deserving in the context of the terms of reference of the National Lottery Act, 1986.

I agree with the recommendations that surplus revenues should be devoted entirely to the support of community and voluntary activity in the area of youth services, sports, the arts, the Irish language, welfare, health, social services and community development. I also agree with the recommendation that the needs of the most disadvantaged groups should be prioritised in the allocation of lottery funds.

Lottery revenue has greatly exceeded the original expectations but that should not give us an excuse to renege on our Exchequer responsibilities or to continue a situation where substitution rather than additional funding is granted to qualifying bodies. Has the quality of Irish life improved as a result of the lottery? Is it a drain on the resources of people with little disposable income? Are there better community facilities?

Are there more recreation centres? Do more teenagers benefit from sporting activities? Do the Irish charities gain from increased grants? Is the Irish language a real beneficiary of lottery grants?

Publication of details of how funding is distributed should, as is recommended, be more precise and specific. While I praise the grants given to various bodies and projects, there is a need to commit sufficient funds to ensure that the project is completed and that local communities are not wondering from one year to the next if the parish hall will be fitted with a roof. The recommendation of the review group that a commitment should be given to the principle of partnership with the client would establish proper procedures which would lead to greater accountability, openness and consensus.

There is also a need to ensure that those who would otherwise gain from people's disposable income — charities — do not suffer. The work of Irish charities is largely voluntary and includes groups working with the elderly, the disabled, travellers and the homeless. In the period 1987-96, only £26.7 million in total was given in grants from the national lottery beneficiary fund to voluntary bodies working in the social services area — about 1 per cent of the total for the period. However, it could be suggested that expenditure on the lottery by the public could lead to a consequent drop in the moneys raised by charity.

The most recent research available on charitable fundraising, Charitable Giving and Volunteering in the Republic of Ireland, was published by the National College of Industrial Relations in September 1995. It reported that the amount donated by the public to charity fell from £246 million in 1992 to £217 million in 1994, a drop of £29 million. Over the same period, sales of the national lottery increased by £39 million. The NCIR research also reported that sales of charity lottery tickets in Ireland decreased from £16 million in 1992 to £10 million in 1994.

In this context, I welcome the setting up of the Charitable Lotteries Fund, which has been established for the purposes of supplementing the income of the promoters of private charitable lotteries whose products are in direct competition with similar products available from the national lottery. The basis for distributing the fund, which was advertised for the first time yesterday, appears to be complete, fair and transparent. In order to ensure further fairness, perhaps it is time to review the Gaming and Lotteries Act, 1956, which in placing a limit on prizes in charity lotteries at £10,000 per week, places them at a major disadvantage.

Maidir leis an nGaeilge, tá sé soiléir gur ionadaíocht airgid atá i gceist dona heagrais Gaeilge seachas breisíocht. Anuas go dtí 1988, tháinig ciste na Gaeilge ó na gnáth-meastúcháin. Athraíodh é sin le teacht an lotto ach níor tháinig méadú ar an gciste faoi mar a tharla dona deontaisí dona hógeagrais. Dublaíodh iad sin agus moladh tuilte acu.

Le cúig bliain ó 1991-96, méadaíodh ciste na Gaeilge ó £1.8 milliúin go dtí £2.1 milliúin — méadú £300,000. An leor é sin? Taispeánann an Daonáirimh go bhfuil méadú suntasach le feiceáil le uimhir na Gaeilgeorí sa tír seo ó bhunú an Stáit. Dar ndóigh, is eol do chách go bhfuil muintir na hÉireann níos báúla ná riamh don teanga.

Táimid níos láidre san Eoraip, sáite níos mó i gcultúir idirnáisiúnta agus ba chóir dúinn tacaíocht a thabhairt do na heagrais Gaeilge. Ní cheart dearmad a dhéanamh ar an téarma tagartha don chrannchur náisiúnta a deir gur cóir airgead a thabhairt ar son na Gaeilge. I guarantee that money spent on the Irish language has a more lasting effect than the money spent on such major projects as the millennium clock in the Liffey.

Every Irish citizen has a different dream. Winning the lottery will apply to only a few, but benefiting from the lottery should apply to everyone. The recommendations of the review body, which recognise the accountability of the Government, the importance of prioritising allocations, developing partnerships, standardising applications and publicising funding will ensure fairness and equity. I commend them.

I wish to share my time with Deputy Gerry Reynolds.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

I am delighted to have the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I welcome the report of the Review Group on the National Lottery. Ten years on from the establishment of the lottery, it is time that its workings be reviewed, in the light of justified and unjustified criticism. It would be wrong for the Oireachtas to ignore justified criticism of national lottery allocations and hand over the running of the lottery to an independent body. This would indicate to the public that we had something to hide and there may have been some irregularities in the allocation of funds or in the manner in which applications were handled.

It is important that this report is examined not only by the Department of Finance but by other Departments who have made up the shortfall in Estimates by using lottery allocations in the daily running of their Departments. The National Lottery Act, 1986, did not envisage such a means of disbursing the funds. For that reason the Minister should consider allocating national lottery funding from a single Department rather than disbursing it through the Departments of Health and Children, Education and Science and Environment and Local Government. Therein lies part of the reason for public disquiet about the national lottery.

The national lottery has been a great success in its ten years of operation. Every community and group that applied received valuable funds from it. It is likely that these groups would not have been recognised by any other Government agency and would have not have received funds from another source. There are positive feelings from communities around the country about the national lottery because it has been good to them. Facilities in rural and urban areas would not have been provided were it not for national lottery funds.

The issue of competition as it applies to the national lottery needs examination. There has been a justified reaction from the charities which have a long tradition in sourcing their own funding for their works. They have felt the effects of the national lottery's effective monopoly which must cease if we are to face the challenge of the UK lottery which, it would appear, will be allowed to compete in Ireland under EU rules, despite our efforts to protect the national lottery. Nationally, the limitations placed on organisations such as Rehab are unjust. The success of any organisation can only be judged if there is fair competition. The national lottery has a privileged monopoly position which is unfair to the other voluntary bodies which have a tradition going back before the national lottery was set up. In fairness to those other organisations we must allow the national lottery to face the challenge of competition. We must level the playing pitch so that these organisations may continue their good work. Providing a fund of £5 million from national lottery funds for the charities is just a sop to satisfy some of the criticisms from that quarter.

I am glad the report has established priorities, in particular the disadvantaged. It is a reflection on successive Governments and on Departments that this section of society has had to rely on allocations from the national lottery to fund its legitimate claims for essential services. A family with a physically or mentally handicapped child must struggle with the Department of Health and Children for basic hospitalisation services. Services as basic as speech therapy are not provided to many young people suffering from autism. As a Deputy from the west I can give many examples of such lack of access to essential services when an early diagnosis has been made and when such services would be of most benefit. It is wrong that such disadvantage should continue to exist given that we hear so often of the tiger economy and the vast amounts of extra tax revenue available to the Exchequer.

I suggest that the physically and mentally handicapped would be prioritised at national level, not just in a Minister's constituency, so that facilities as basic as day care centres or residential care in certain circumstances could be provided. Organisations such as the mentally handicapped associations raised funds and highlighted the need for these services in the 1970s and 1980s. At that time the parents involved were young and their children were young. However, there is now great concern among these now older parents for the future of their children who are now young adults with a mental or physical disability and who may have to be institutionalised. There are many people in mental institutions who are not more than physically or mentally handicapped but who have nowhere else to go. It is wrong and we must put and end to it while the funds are available to provide a decent service to those people.

The sporting organisations who were the original intended beneficiaries of the lottery have had a fair share of funds. After the Olympic success of our national hero and triple gold medallist Michelle Smith some years ago it would have been appropriate to provide a 50 metre swimming pool as a national monument in her honour. Has the relevance of the Olympics and Michelle Smith's success evaporated with the passage of time? There was some unfavourable reaction to politicians welcoming home various teams or individuals who were successful in international sport over the years; some people felt that politicians did not have the right to be present on such occasions. We should examine that to try to find out where all that goodwill went.

Has the 50 metre swimming pool been put on the back burner and forgotten about in the same way as many other prominent instances throughout the year? Sentiments, which may have been well intentioned at the time, have been forgotten recently and that is responsible for much of the criticism of politicians from the media and other sources. It may be justified in the case of the 50 metre pool as politicians have failed to deliver on the promises made.

I hope the Government will retain responsibility for the allocation of lottery funds. To give that responsibility to an independent body would speak volumes about our inadequacy and inability. It is a credit to successive Ministers, Departments and officials that they have applied the allocation of funds fairly throughout the country. We may have seen an imbalance in the allocation of funds prior to an election but that is to be expected. There are very few instances in which the benefit of money allocated has not been seen at ground level. That is the important issue on which the success of the national lottery rests.

I welcome the report of the review group on the national lottery which gives us the opportunity to make a number of points. As my colleague Deputy Burke said, it is important that every national institution, such as the national lottery, should be reviewed on a ten year basis. I also agree with Deputy Burke's view that the Government, when examining the review, should consider giving responsibility for national lottery funding to a specific Department. As things stand, a number of Departments deal with this issue; that can cause difficulties and has done over the past ten years.

I welcome the review group's recommendation that responsibility for funding allocation should stay within the ambit of Government; that is very important. Regardless of what parties are in Government, the majority of funding distributed over the past ten years has been carried out in an even handed manner. In spite of the fact that some counties complain from time to time, overall funding allocations have been carried out as fairly as possible.

The National Lottery Act, 1996, was established to fund a number of areas — arts, culture, heritage, sport, youth and the Irish language. In the late 1980s when fiscal rectitude was one of the political war cries, Governments used a large amount of national lottery funding in mainline departmental areas. National lottery funding was used by the Department of Health to keep everyday health services up and running. Now that we are in the era of the Celtic tiger we should be more prudent in the manner in which we spend taxpayers' money. Newspapers are reporting that more than £500 million will be given away in the December budget. If that is the case, tax buoyancy and revenue are raising sufficient money to provide mainline services in all Departments. The money taken in by the national lottery should be spent in the areas for which it was specifically intended. The Minister said that over the past ten years £241 million was spent in the areas of health, community and welfare. That was probably very necessary but, given the current levels of tax revenue, national lottery funds should now be put back into the areas of youth, sports, recreation, amenities, arts, culture, national heritage and the Irish language.

Much work remains to be done in the areas of youth and recreational facilities throughout the country. Most sports complexes and other recreational facilities have been provided by the private sector rather than the State. Some of my colleagues referred to a 50 metre swimming pool; that may be an old red herring but if we cannot afford to built it now, we will never build it. That would be an admission of failure especially in the light of Michelle Smith having represented Ireland so excellently at the Olympics.

I disagree with my colleague, Deputy Hayes, who said he would like to see a cap placed on the amount of money individuals could win in the national lottery. That is not a good idea; if a person wins £2 million or £5 million good luck to them. There is an incentive for people to go out and buy national lottery tickets; the more people who do this, the more funding will be available. To place a cap on the amounts which could be won would be a negative rather than a positive step.

When the Government reviews the report I would like it to consider allowing more retail outlets to sell national lottery tickets. Many retailers are willing to sell them and that would help to increase sales.

I am delighted to have an opportunity to discuss the report of the review group on the national lottery. Many reports have been prepared over the past ten years on the national lottery; one such was compiled by the Irish gambling industry and was reported on 21 November 1996. That report stated that the principal motivation for the establishment of a national lottery was the perceived revenue generating potential of such an operation as based on evidence from other western countries. The lottery's success was seriously underestimated as it has exceeded all expectations. Unlike other forms of betting in this country, the national lottery is obliged to distribute proceeds, net of winnings and operating costs, to nominated beneficiaries as outlined in section 5 of the National Lottery Act, 1986. Therefore, while there is no direct tax yield from the lottery to the Government, the funds raised have allowed the Government to finance expenditure in areas where it would previously have been unavailable or severely restricted.

It can, therefore, be argued that the national lottery fund expenditure has displaced Exchequer funding requirements allowing State revenue to be freed for expenditure elsewhere. The report of the Irish gambling industry shows that displacement of Exchequer funding in the various categories where the beneficiary fund can be spent has been in the region of 50 per cent in the areas of youth, sport, recreation, arts, culture, health and welfare and the Irish language. The national lottery has experienced ten consecutive years of continuous growth with a total of £700 million being raised for the Government to allocate to projects since 1987.

It is extremely important for the national lottery to remain competitive and to respond to market changes, particularly in the light of the European Commission's demand that foreign lotteries must be allowed the option of operating in Ireland. The Department of Justice is currently looking at the implications of that demand.

In an article in The Irish Times of 22 August 1997 a Department of Justice spokesperson said that the EU view on lottery operations was a highly complex one and that the Department was examining a report from the Commission on this matter. Such a change to allow foreign lotteries to operate here would have huge implications for the national lottery, even though it was set up under separate legislation in 1986. A spokesperson for the national lottery company said the Commission's demand was a matter for the Departments of Justice and Finance.

The Irish Amusement Trades Association told the Sunday Times that the EU had informed the Government it could not ban foreign lotteries. It is understood the Government may have no option but to change the legislation which would have a serious impact for many groups that have received funding from the lottery.

The national lottery touches almost everybody's life. Research shows that 63 per cent of the population participates and that the average weekly spend by regular participants is in the region of £3.11. Net expenditure has remained constant at 0.7 per cent of personal consumer expenditure over the last ten years. It is evident that if foreign lotteries are allowed to operate here the spend will remain the same, but the real losers will be the national lottery and the many groups who have benefited from it.

The report mentions evidence that working class groups spend more on the lottery than others, and that should be reflected in how the money is allocated. People pay and play, and do so because they want to feel they are doing some good and that the proceeds of the beneficiary fund are going to deserving projects. This is an important point in ensuring the future success of the national lottery, particularly against foreign competition.

A national survey of attitudes to the national lottery conducted by Behaviour and Attitudes Limited in March 1997 found that 70 per cent of people feel the lottery is a good idea. Of that 70 per cent, 45 per cent said the primary reason they play the lottery is that it supports various deserving causes. Any dissatisfaction with the disbursement of the lottery fund reflects badly on the national lottery company as it advertises the projects funded in its promotional literature. It also reflects badly on the Government because Ministers decide how the beneficiary fund is to be spent.

I would like to look at the ten recommendations of the review group in some detail. The first recommendation is that the allocation of lottery funds should continue to be made by the Government rather than by an independent body. I agree with this recommendation. Public accountability rests with Dáil Éireann. We are elected as public representatives by the people to oversee public spending. The Dáil is the place where questions can be asked and where policy can be enunciated to match investment. People who play the lottery want to feel they are doing good. The people they elect are answerable to them every four or five years at a general election. That guarantees that the beneficiary fund is spent fairly and according to the needs of the community. It would be a retrograde step to hand over responsibility to an independent body that cannot be questioned in the Dáil about allocations.

The second recommendation of the review group is that the beneficiary fund be devoted entirely to the support of community and voluntary activities. When people participate in the lottery they believe they are doing something extra, over and above normal Government spending. It is not their intention to replace Exchequer funding with funding from the beneficiary fund. This is where the principle of additionality comes from. The beneficiary fund is unique and is designed to do something extra. It should be community driven, visible and transparent.

In the late 1980s and early 1990s economic conditions were not as good as those we enjoy today. At that time it was necessary to use the beneficiary fund to boost Exchequer funding. Projects that would normally have benefited from Exchequer funding had to be provided by the beneficiary under the lottery. The situation has now changed, however, as we are enjoying an economic boom and it is important to return to the original objectives of additional funding in community and voluntary activities.

Two reports were carried out on the principle of additionality. The Harvey report stated that additionality was at 7 to 11 per cent. However, the Terry Baker ERSI report of 1997 — which the review group recognised as being more accurate — stated that additionality was at 50 per cent. In a time of economic boom, however, it is important for the beneficiary fund to be more focused. It should select a number of larger projects that otherwise would not obtain funding and that could be readily identified with the national lottery.

There has been some talk in the House about a 50 metre swimming pool. Maybe such a project could enjoy funding and everyone would then recognise that the lottery's beneficiary fund had paid for that particular project. When I drive along the road to Mayo a couple of times a week, I can spot projects that are funded by the European Union because signs are placed to identify them. Projects funded by the national lottery should also use such signage. Even small projects should be identified as having received lottery funding. That would boost sales and increase the current level of spending on the lottery.

There should be a geographical spread so that everybody can see and appreciate the benefits of the lottery. I was surprised that I could not get a regional breakdown of figures when I requested one. Individual Departments can provide some breakdown but nobody can provide a complete county-by-county breakdown of the £700 million that has been spent over the last ten years. The 63 per cent of people who participate in the lottery would like to know where that money is being spent in their counties to make sure they are getting a slice of the cake.

The Department of Social Welfare allocates some of the money in direct proportion to the number of people living in a county. That is fair, although I am not suggesting the money should be allocated strictly on a per capita basis because if the lottery is to be successful a number of major projects will have to receive funding and there simply cannot be a major project in every county. Small projects are also important, however, and they have a huge positive impact on rural communities, particularly in County Mayo which I represent.

Funding should be carried out in an integrated way so that it complements State funding and policy in many areas. Now is the time to isolate the beneficiary fund from Government expenditure and restore it to its originally intended position of supporting community and voluntary activity.

The third recommendation in the report suggests that disadvantaged groups within the voluntary and community sector should be given priority. Even in good times, which we are now experiencing, there are marginalised communities. Disadvantage can be broken down into two areas. There are disadvantaged areas and disadvantaged groups. In a time of economic boom it is important that the national lottery's beneficiary fund should support the weaker sections of our community which always need our support. One factor which should be important when considering the allocation of funding is employability. Employability could be a key feature of funding for disadvantaged groups because it provides an opportunity for the development of skills where a gap exists currently.

Lottery funding gives an opportunity and a start in life to individuals and groups. In my constituency a women's group in north County Mayo, many members of which work on farms or as housewives, has sought lottery funding to start a computer course. There is a great awareness in County Mayo of the information age and Castlebar recently took part in the information age town competition. The type of course to which I refer gives opportunities to women and disadvantaged groups which enable them to return to the employment market and that is a trend which I would like to see continue.

The fourth recommendation of the report deals with standardising application procedures. Bureaucracy and administration mean less money for investment. It is important that applications are standardised to simplify the application process. Only this week a number of people contacted me who were unsure of the Department to which they should make their applications, how they should go about it and when they should apply. The attitude towards anybody who is making an application for lottery funds should be one of assistance because these applications can form a valuable source of new ideas. We all know funding cannot be provided for every project but valuable information can be provided which could benefit everyone.

I agree with the fifth recommendation of the report that the Government should publish more details on how the funding is distributed. I suggest that an annual event be held at which the best lottery funded projects can be displayed. This would offer an opportunity to local groups to show what they are doing with the money. If people see that their money is being spent prudently, it can only have a positive effect for the national lottery company and the Government. The Minister should consider such an annual event when he examines the report. This is also important for the purposes of transparency and visibility in the allocation of funds. I also believe there is a need to introduce annual reports on funding.

The report's sixth recommendation is that the decisions on applications should reflect the commitment to the principle of partnership with the client base. Partnership is important in evaluating applications. Partnership between project leaders, the local authorities, regional agencies and Departments need not be cumbersome. It is not necessary for local authorities to have a say in how the funding is allocated but they should be informed and know what is happening in other counties. If local authorities are informed and the principle of co-operation can be agreed between the various bodies, there is greater accountability and consensus about the allocation of funds.

Recommendation seven of the report states that organisations or bodies which have been recipients of national lottery funding should fill out a lottery beneficiary information form and show how the money has been spent each year. This is a good idea because the most important aspect of the allocation of funding is financial accountability. If money is being allocated, it is important that it is spent properly. We cannot know that is the case unless we get some feedback from the projects involved.

To oversee the implementation of the recommendations of the report and maintain continuous supervision of the disbursement of the beneficiary fund, the review group recommends the establishment of a national lottery beneficiary fund monitoring committee. This is the only recommendation of the report with which I must disagree because Dáil Éireann is the monitoring committee for the disbursement of the beneficiary funds. The 166 Deputies represent the people, interest groups and communities. We are elected by the people, who have an opportunity every four or five years to decide who represents them. There can be no more accountable review body than Dáil Éireann.

I thank all the Deputies for their valuable contributions to this debate. I am aware that there was a great deal of interest among Deputies and the public in the report of the review group and its recommendations when it was published. The debate was non-partisan in nature because Members of the House can see in every county, city and town the extent to which the national lottery has benefited targeted community groups and projects. Many rural communities, which have suffered because young people moved to urban areas and traditional structures of society disintegrated, have regenerated themselves with new ideas and community-led developments. It is heartening for public representatives to go into such communities and see the process of bonding in a dispersed population in which projects are begun. The amounts of money which can be raised locally in rural areas never cease to amaze me because it seems impossible to raise such sums in larger urban areas.

There is a great sense of spirit in the community. It is important that the Government recognise the individual value of each project and the role it must play in ensuring that local communities have access to funding which can create centres of interest which have a residual long-term beneficial effect. Many projects, which started with an idea and national lottery funding, have mushroomed into larger developments which bring a range of facilities into an area and rejuvenate the community.

The national lottery beneficiary fund in particular has played a vital role. After all, it is the people's money. It is right that we should have the capacity to disburse the funds as widely as possible and at the same time in as targeted a way as possible to ensure that we maximise the benefits of what is a substantial amount of money — in excess of £100 million per annum.

Various Deputies raised important points in the course of the debate. Deputy Noonan spoke at length about the reserve fund and he raised some questions about its use. The substantial fund, which stood at £43 million when the report was published in 1996 but which has grown since, was kept with the intention of funding a major project in the next few years. The Deputy's point is well made and I was very conscious of it. There is an opportunity now as the millennium approaches. I do not want to say definitively that that is where the money may end up but it is obviously a consideration in the search for a suitable major project. Because the matter is so subjective, Members could put forward 166 ideas within a half an hour if need be but the Government will be trying to build on the strengths which have already been put in place by the lottery. While I am sure all Members would like the money to be spent on one or two major projects, we must examine the residual benefits we can derive from such investment as we move into the new millennium.

I was struck by the unanimous view on the report's recommendation that the control and disbursement of lottery funding should not be handed over to an independent review group. It is important that we, as the primary focus of democracy, should be held accountable. The House is made up of honest people with enormous integrity who are concerned about their constituents and people's welfare. To diminish that role by suggesting that an independent group would be more answerable or transparent is not the best way forward. The public wants access to information and we have the capacity to meet those demands. There should be no misunderstandings or residual concerns in the public domain about how lottery projects are determined or about why some get funding and others do not. While many of these views may be subjective, the points were well made. The Government will remain in control of lottery funding and will take on board the recommendations made in that regard.

I welcome the recommendation that lottery funding for voluntary and community sectors, currently dealt with on a statutory basis, should be dealt with by the relevant Departments. While I acknowledge Deputy Noonan's comments in that regard, as a former Minister for Finance he should know that public expenditure comes into the equation. Such a change will be central to maximising to the best of our ability the moneys available from the lottery for sport and youth facilities, heritage projects and so on. All lottery funding should be maximised in the marketplace. The review body did not state that extra funding was needed. It suggested that allocation of moneys for statutory functions was not the best way to use the fund. I warmly welcome that recommendation. When that change is made, the next step will be to ensure public expenditure is properly controlled and the Minister for Finance will give that priority during his time in office. The focus will be more transparent and the public will respond accordingly.

Deputy Haughey and others referred to the compendium, the last of which was published in l994. For the benefit of the public and ourselves, we hope to update that information on a regular basis so that everyone is aware of what is happening with regard to lottery funds. Deputy Haughey and others also suggested capping the jackpot. Lottery sales are driven by the jackpot. If there were large jackpots on a regular basis it might be appropriate to do that, but that is not the case. I would be reluctant to cap the jackpot. It is part of the fun and generates the most income for the fund.

Deputies asked if lottery money is being well spent. As Deputy Noonan and others said earlier, there is plenty of evidence in constituencies of where lottery money has been well spent. Some projects have not been as successful as others, but by and large we get good value for money. Lottery funding comes under the same general criteria as Government spending. It is more controlled and open than in the past.

Deputy Ring asked if the money allocated to the Irish language was going to Teilifís na Gaeilge or used for the promotion of the Irish language. None of the money from the national lottery goes to Teilifís na Gaeilge. It is being used for the greater promotion and benefit of the Irish language. Deputy Cooper-Flynn raised an interesting point. She referred to some schemes being more successful than others and suggested that we should display these schemes and present a merit award on an annual or biannual basis. This might focus the public's mind on the innovativeness in the markeplace. I may take this proposal on board.

There was much discussion about funding for sport. I do not believe Deputy Noonan meant to suggest it was not correct to provide a range of small clubs with small amounts of funding because such funding has had enormous benefit in local areas. A case could be made for allocating large sums to build national stadia and so on. The Morton stadium in Santry is an example in this regard. The lottery has benefited major facilities for Gaelic games, soccer, badminton, boxing and athletics. An Olympic standard 50 metre swimming pool would cost approximately £30 million and in excess of £500,000 per annum to operate. The question of the provision of such a pool is under consideration in the Department.

I thank the Deputies who contributed to the debate. This report will form the basis of the way forward. As Deputies are aware, it will perhaps require some amending legislation. I am open to examining any worthwhile views or amendments which would improve the operation of the fund in the weeks and months ahead.

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