Vol. 486 No. 6
24 Mr. Higgins (Mayo) asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the details of his recent meeting with the relatives of the late Mme. Sophie Toscan du Plantier; the assurances, if any, which he gave to them; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3320/98]
I was asked by Marguerite and Georges Bouniol, the parents of Madam Sophie Toscan du Plantier, during their visit to West Cork in December last to meet them and I was happy to do so. The meeting took place in Bantry on 22 December.
As the meeting was a private one it would not be proper for me to go into the details of the discussions, as the Deputy has asked, without consulting M. and Mme. Bouniol in the first instance. However, I expect that they would not have any objection to me relating in general terms what transpired.
While the meeting was cordial, it was, of course, a sombre occasion. I was glad to have the opportunity to convey directly to the family my own deepest sympathies and those of the Government on the death of Madam Toscan du Plantier and express my abhorrence at the circumstances of her death. I informed the family of the very great efforts which the Garda was making to solve the crime; that a substantial file had been forwarded to the Director of Public Prosecutions; and that while the file was being actively considered by the Director, Garda inquiries were continuing.
I mentioned that the Director had issued in early January 1997, and subsequently, a number of Letters of Request to the French authorities on behalf of the Garda seeking a number of inquiries to be made in France and that it would appear that one had been responded to. I explained why there was a problem in executing the Letter of Request which had been received from the French authorities; that what was being sought was essentially the Garda investigation file and that in any criminal case it was important not to prejudice the Garda investigation or any subsequent prosecution by premature disclosure of information to third parties. I also stated that legal advice had been sought by my Department on the Letter of Request.
Finally, I assured the family that the Garda investigation was being pursued vigorously with a view to bringing the perpetrator or perpetrators to justice.
A formal response to the letter of request was conveyed through diplomatic channels to the French authorities on 23 December. This was to the effect that my Department had been informed by the Office of the Attorney General that consideration of the request had to take account of the existence of the Irish investigation and possible charges arising therefrom, that the Director of Public Prosecutions had indicated to that Office that it would not be proper to agree to assist the French authorities in the manner requested while a decision was pending on a prosecution in this jurisdiction and that the Attorney General's Office agreed with that view. Regret was expressed accordingly that it was not possible to accede to the request.
As regards the present state of the Garda investigation, Deputies will be aware that it is not the practice of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to make statements to the House about the progress of individual Garda investigations except in singular instances where the circumstances of an investigation are so exceptional that such a course is deemed appropriate. All I propose to say in this case is that I have been informed by the Garda authorities that the investigation is ongoing and that no effort is being spared in bringing the matter to a conclusion.
(Mayo): Did the Minister apologise to the du Plantier family as reported in the press? Did he apologise for the fact that Mme. du Plantier's husband learnt of her death from French television, which reported on a French woman's death at her cottage in west Cork? Did he apologise for the fact that the body was left lying in a laneway for 36 hours before removal? Did he apologise for the failure to co-operate fully with the French authorities, allowing for the difference in prosecution procedures? All they wanted was to be kept up to date. Is he aware that tremendous damage is being done to our international reputation? Details of this have been splashed across the international press, particularly in Le Figaro. M. du Plantier told that newspaper:
The Irish told us nothing. Not a word . We still don't know exactly what time Sophie died. Her body lay on the path for 36 hours. Finally the French Foreign Minister, M. Hervé de Charette, told me officially that Sophie had been murdered. The first sign of humanity came from France.
First, I did not apologise to the family regarding the investigation. As I explained, the Garda is doing everything it can to bring this matter to a conclusion. I expressed regret to the family regarding the situation with relation to notification and the fact that the pathologist did not arrive for some 24 hours. Regarding notification, I understand that the Garda authorities stated that the usual procedures concerning notification of the death of a visitor to Ireland which relate to the appropriate authorities representing that person were followed in the case. Unfortunately, the French media broadcast reports of the matter very soon after it occurred and before the victim's husband could be notified by the authorities.
I remind the Deputy that there is a difference between French and Irish law on this matter. There is no possibility whereby the Irish authorities could hand over the file or sensitive information in it in accordance with the French authorities' request without prejudicing the investigation. The Garda has done everything it could in this case. Statements have been made by various people on the case, and I cannot be responsible for those comments. I am accountable to the House for the Garda, and it has informed me that it is doing everything it possibly can to bring this matter to a conclusion.
The family members I met in Bantry on 22 December understood that the Garda was doing everything possible to resolve the matter. Since this Government came to office, an Assistant State Pathologist has been appointed with a view to ensuring that expeditious examinations will be carried out in tragic cases such as this.
(Mayo): I will ask the Minister a blunt question. Will somebody be charged for the murder? A recent article in the Sunday Independent stated that the National Bureau for Criminal Investigation was recently brought in and the Garda are quoted as stating “they won't get anybody.” Has the file been sent to the French authorities? Does the Minister acknowledge there has been tardiness in dealing with this case, particularly from the point of view of arrests? Is there a tendency in certain criminal investigations to build up the case rather than move for an early arrest, with the result that vital forensic evidence is destroyed or tampered with by the time an arrest is made? Is that what happened in this case?
A file has not been sent to the French authorities. As I already explained, that cannot be done without prejudicing the investigation and the possibility of a subsequent successful conviction. I cannot comment on whether somebody will be charged, other than to say the Director of Public Prosecutions is independent in the exercise of his functions and no doubt will make that decision in due course.
The investigation into this brutal murder must proceed under Irish law. A basic element of Irish criminal law is that sufficient evidence must be available before a person can be charged with an offence and nothing must be allowed interfere with that process. What we are talking about is an investigation being carried out by the Garda Síochána and every effort being made to bring to justice the perpetrator or perpetrators of this horrific murder. I do not have control over comments in the media or elsewhere. All I can do to assist the Deputy is reply to his questions and put the matter into context. It is often discussed out of context, with disregard for our criminal law which has served society extremely well over generations and continues to do so.
Every effort that can be made is being made to bring the perpetrator or perpetrators of this horrific crime to justice and that will continue.
