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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 23 Apr 1998

Vol. 490 No. 1

Adjournment Debate. - School Caretakers' Pay.

Thank you, a Cheann Comhairle, for giving me the opportunity to raise the important matter of school caretakers' pay. It is particularly important in my constituency which embraces two satellite towns in west Dublin where there are large primary and post-primary schools. The caretaking of them is a matter of great importance. It is an anomaly that a primary school with an enrolment of 500 pupils should be treated differently from a post-primary school with a similar enrolment in terms of caretaking. I hope the Minister of State clarifies and gives a positive response to the request that the caretaking of large primary schools be treated similarly to post-primary schools.

In primary schools, caretakers are not recognised by the Department and community minded people working in them do not benefit like their equivalents in post-primary schools. They do not have pension rights or receive incremental adjustments under pay agreements. It is unfair that those who take on the responsibility of caretaking in primary schools should be treated differently. The issue has been raised by a number of boards of management and is a source of continual problems.

The availability of finance for caretakers in primary schools takes a different form from post-primary schools. The Department should provide the same financial support to both types of school and, for example, a minimum enrolment number of 500 could be set which would not cost the Exchequer a substantial sum as it is not desirable that it would. The Department indirectly pays a higher price because of vandalism which could be prevented if caretaking was put on a proper footing for primary schools. Is it the Department's intention to do so, including a minimum enrolment figure? The primary sector continually complains it is the Cinderella of the education system and this anomaly in regard to ancillary staff reinforces that view.

My Department provides funding towards the cost of caretaking services in primary and second level schools under a number of different schemes, which I will outline in detail. At primary level, the Department funds caretaking services under two separate schemes. One scheme was initiated in 1979 under which the Department meets the full cost of the caretaker's salary and employer's PRSI. However, it has been phased out since September 1992 as posts become vacant.

The second scheme involves the provision by our Department of additional capitation grants for primary schools as agreed under the Programme for Economic and Social Progress, PESP. It was introduced on a phased basis, commencing in September 1992. Initially the scheme catered for schools with an enrolment of 500 or more pupils, but the qualifying figure has been reduced in stages and stands at 195 pupils. Ultimately, all schools with enrolments of 100 or more pupils will benefit from this scheme. All schools in the scheme receive grants of £15 per pupil, subject to a maximum grant of £7,500 per annum. The arrangement is that the caretaker is employed by the individual school and the Department does not have any role in determining the pay or conditions under which they are engaged.

We are committed to seeking improvements in the rate of the grant, and securing an increase in the maximum grant payable to schools under this scheme as resources allow. At second level, the position is that separate schemes operate in the three different sectors. Caretakers in secondary schools are employed by individual schools and the Department has no role in their appointment. Their conditions of service and pay rates are agreed between the caretaker and the employing school. Issues relating to the payment of national pay increases etc., are for negotiation and agreement, between the employing school, which is a private institution and the employee.

Since 1992, under the Programme for Economic and Social Progress, the Department has given financial assistance towards the provision of caretaking services in secondary schools. All such schools with enrolments of 200 or more recognised pupils receive an additional capitation grant of £25 per pupil per annum, subject to a maximum of £8,750 per annum. As with primary schools, we are looking at ways of improving the situation of secondary schools, which receive assistance under this scheme.

Caretakers in schools controlled by vocational education committees are employed by the various committees concerned. Caretakers are employed directly by community and comprehensive schools. In both cases, however, pay and conditions of employment are negotiated centrally, between the Department and the unions, and the Department provides funding for caretaker pay costs, through direct grants paid to the vocational education committees and the schools, as appropriate.

I appreciate that, where there are a number of different schemes in operation, it is almost inevitable that anomalies will arise. However, the differing schemes are not directly comparable in that some of them provide for the direct employment of caretakers whereas the 1992 PESP scheme provides additional capitation grants to schools. As indicated earlier, however, we will continue to seek improvements in the level of assistance available under the 1992 PESP scheme.

The Dáil adjourned at 4 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 28 April 1998.

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