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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 29 Apr 1998

Vol. 490 No. 3

Other Questions. - Free Travel Scheme.

Jim O'Keeffe

Ceist:

4 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs if he will extend the free travel scheme to all widows and widowers over the age of 60 given that some widowed persons in that age group are now in receipt of this concession. [10197/98]

The free travel scheme is available to all persons in the State aged 66 years or over and also to certain people with disabilities under that age who are in receipt of certain welfare type payments. In addition, widows and widowers between the age of 60 and 65 whose late spouses had entitlement to free travel retain that entitlement. The scheme provides free travel, primarily at off-peak periods, to eligible people on the main public and private transport services. At the end of last January, about 505,000 people qualified for free travel at an annual cost of £33 million.

There are more than 95,000 persons in receipt of a social welfare widow's or widower's pensions. Free travel passes have been issued to almost 75,000 widows and widowers at a cost of £5 million per annum. This includes an estimated 2,100 people in receipt of free travel based on their late spouse's entitlement. However, it is not known how many of these passes are in use. The cost of extending free travel to all widows and widowers over the age of 60, regardless of the source of their income, is estimated at more than £5.5 million.

Will the Minister accept that widows and widowers, as a group, are not treated well under the system and that we should try to ensure, unless the cost is unreasonable, that schemes such as the free travel scheme are extended to them? Is it not unfair that some widows and widowers over the age of 60 qualify for free travel while others, solely related to the date of death of their husbands, do not? Will the Minister accept that this is an anomaly which should be rectified?

In any system there are difficulties and if one changes the goalposts once, one may create further difficulties. In the recent budget widows and widowers over the age of 66 received an increase of £5. This was a welcome development. Widows and widowers under the age of 66 received an increase of £3. In the Finance Act the Minister for Finance made substantial changes to the taxation code to assist widows and widowers. In the context of the forthcoming budget in December, I will be looking at the difficulties of widows and widowers with a view to ameliorating their situation within budgetary constraints.

If we regard widows and widowers as the forgotten people, we should reach out and try to help. This is a reasonable proposal. I challenge the figures given by the Minister. I understood him to say that the cost of extending the free travel scheme to all widows and widowers over the age of 60 would be £5.5 million.

That is poppycock.

Regardless of their source of income.

In other words, it is not means tested.

There is a slight problem. Last Wednesday, 22 April 1998, the Minister said the cost would be £1.4 million.

That figures relates to the cost of extending the scheme to all those in receipt of a social welfare payment.

The question was related to the extension of the free travel scheme to all widows and widowers over the age of 60. The Minister said in reply that the full year cost would be £1.4 million.

The officials who drafted the reply did so on the basis that the Deputy was referring to those in receipt of a social welfare payment.

The figure I was given was £1.4 million.

We cannot debate the matter now.

This raises the issue of the accuracy of the figures being thrown around by the Minister like snuff at a wake or confetti at a wedding. This happened in the case of contributory old age pension for the self-employed also. Will the Minister double check the figures because, clearly, the figures he has given do not stand up? The figure of £1.4 million could not, under any circumstances, have increased to £5.5 million in one week.

The cost of extending the free travel scheme to all widows and widowers over the age of 60, regardless of their source of income, is estimated at £5.5 million. I queried this figure before I came into the House——

The Minister is responsible for the figures.

——as I was aware that the figure of £1.4 million had been given previously. The Deputy did not indicate——

The question was related to the extension of the free travel scheme to all widows and widowers over the age of 60.

The figure of £1.4 million relates to the cost of extending the free travel scheme to all widows and widowers in receipt of a social welfare payment. The figure of £5.5 million relates to the cost of extending the scheme to all widows and widowers, irrespective of their source of income.

Bluster. Both answers cannot be correct.

The number of persons over the age of 60 in receipt of a contributory social welfare widow's or widower's pension who do not qualify for free travel is 18,108. The number of persons over the age of 60 in receipt of a non-contributory social welfare widow's or widower's pension is 2,300. The number in receipt of the one parent family payment is 151, giving a total of 20,560. The cost of free travel per person per annum is £66. Therefore, the annual cost of extending the free travel scheme to all widows and widowers over the age of 60 in receipt of a social welfare payment who do not qualify for free travel at present would be £1,356,960. The estimated full year cost of extending the free travel scheme to all widows and widowers over the age of 60, regardless of their source of income, is of the order of £5.4 million or £5.5 million. Based on the 1996 census figures, the number of widows and widowers over the age of 60 is 157,350. The number of widows and widowers who qualify for free travel is 74,766. The number who do not qualify is 82,584. The cost of free travel per person per annum is £66. Therefore, the annual cost of extending the free travel scheme to all widows and widowers would be £5.5 million.

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