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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 17 Jun 1998

Vol. 492 No. 5

Private Members' Business. - Student Nurses: Motion.

The following motion was moved by Deputy Shatter on Tuesday, 16 June 1998:
That Dáil Éireann calls upon the Government and the Minister for Health and Children to bring forward a package of improved financial support for student nurses which will allow them to undertake their courses in nursing in a proper educational context without undue strain, stress and financial hardship and, more particularly, calls on the Government to provide a weekly non-means tested grant of £75 per week to student nurses; free meals for the duration of their three year programme whether in the designated base hospital or whilst undertaking an external clinical placement or academic studies; full payment to meet the expenditure incurred in the new fourth year degree programme and full reimbursement of the cost of any second temporary accommodation required by student nurses when undertaking external clinical placements away from the base hospital; and further calls on the Government to acknowledge that student nurses are not in a position similar to other third level students as they have a 48 week year working commitment at 35 hours each week and are, as a consequence, unable to take up any part-time employment from which they can generate any meaningful income without undermining their study programme.
Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:
To delete all words after "That" and substitute the following:
"Dáil Éireann acknowledges and endorses the measures being taken by the Minister for Health and Children to ease the financial and other burdens on student nurses participating in the nursing registration/diploma programmes."
—(Minister for Health and Children).

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important issue.

This debate follows a series of actions by student nurses across the country who are determined to highlight their plight. Student nurses have been forced to engage in lunchtime work stoppages and protest marches to Dáil Éireann to ensure their voices are heard. I and my Labour Party colleagues fully support their campaign.

The conditions student nurses are expected to endure for three years are appalling and must be addressed by the Government as a matter of urgency. Recent figures show a significant fall off in the number of students enrolling in nursing courses. This is a serious development and comes at a time when hospitals and health boards are experiencing a severe shortage in trained nursing staff. My colleague, Deputy Shortall, highlighted the fact that Irish hospitals are advertising for nurses as far away as Finland and Iceland in an attempt to recruit much needed staff. Matrons in Kildare hospitals gladly welcome nurses who return from abroad. This is a very serious issue for our health service and the Minister must tackle it immediately. If he does not heed the warning signs a crisis of major proportions in our hospitals will occur in the not too distant future.

The conditions and grant assistance available to student nurses are a significant bar to young people deciding to pursue a career in nursing. Given the recent upturn in our economic performance, many school leavers have a wide variety of career options available to them when they complete secondary education. The Minister must ensure that nursing remains an attractive option for a significant number of these school leavers. If he is intent on standing over the current level of support afforded to student nurses, the numbers entering the nursing profession will continue to fall.

Student nurses currently receive a grant of £3,000 per annum, which works out at £57.69 per week. This sum is totally inadequate to support a student nurse and must be increased. The majority of these nurses have to rely on parental handouts to make ends meet during their three year courses. This places enormous pressure on parents and a strain on the family budget. It also demeans the role of student nurses and prevents them from developing independent lifestyles.

The current level of maintenance grant also prevents many people from embarking on a career in nursing. This is particularly true of people whose parents are in receipt of social welfare payments. Such families cannot be expected to subvent their child's nursing career for three years. As a result many young people do not pursue their ambition to make a real contribution to our health services because of the severe financial pressure it would place on their families. This is an extremely serious issue and the current grant levels discriminate against families on low incomes or those on social welfare. This copperfastens the cycle of poverty which thousands of families in this State have to endure.

The Minister cannot defend the current level of support for nurses by comparing them with other third level students. Student nurses form a distinct and separate body of students unlike any other in the country. They work a 35 hour week for 48 weeks of the year. This workload is probably unique within our third level system and prevents them from taking part-time employment to supplement their incomes. For this reason, and the other issues raised by speakers during the debate, it is obvious that student nurses form a special group within our third level system. It is only right and proper that they should receive support different from that afforded to other students in our third level system.

The demands outlined by the Irish Nurses Organisation are reasonable and fair. If they were implemented in full they would significantly improve the standard of living for thousands of student nurses across the country. Student nurses are demanding a £900 per annum increase in their maintenance grant. This is equivalent to a weekly rate of £75. Many speakers alluded to the fact that this rate of financial support is roughly equivalent to the basic payment for people on unemployment benefit or community employment schemes. It is a very modest sum of money on which to expect people to live.

There are no real budgetary or fiscal reasons for denying this increase to student nurses. Given our current buoyant level of Exchequer returns, the money is available in the Department of Finance. The investment of this money would have no significant inflationary effect on our economy. In short, there is no reason this increase should not be granted. It is only a matter of political will. I am disappointed the Government lacks the political will necessary to grant this modest increase.

The other demands of the lNO, as outlined in the motion before us, should also be granted as a matter of urgency. Individually, the demands are extremely reasonable and would not create any significant problems for the Departments of Health and Children or Education and Science. However, if the demands were taken as a package, they would represent a significant enhancement of the conditions of student nurses.

At the heart of the debate this evening is the question of the priority that we attach to our health service. Our current strong economic performance provides us with resources to invest in social services that have suffered from years of neglect. However, it is important to realise that these extra resources are not infinite and must be targeted at those areas that we, as politicians, decide are most in need of support. In my opinion the relatively small investment required to dramatically change the living standards of student nurses is one of the most important investments we as a society can make. It would achieve a number of results. It would ensure fair play and just reward for a section of our community that has been neglected for too long. It would remove the financial hardship that many families of student nurses currently endure as they supplement their children during their pre-registration courses. It would remove the financial barrier that currently prevents children from disadvantaged backgrounds from embarking on a career in nursing. It would also ensure that nursing remains an attractive career for thousands of people. The implementation of the package of measures before us would send out the strong message that we value the health care system and are prepared to invest in the people who work in it.

The motion has the full support of the Labour Party. It addresses the modest demands articulated by the lNo. The Government has the resources to deliver on these demands and it is the responsibility of the Minister for Health and Children to secure the necessary funding from his colleague in the Department of Finance. Student nurses, and the entire health care system, deserve a Minister who is prepared to battle on their behalf. The Government's amendment to the motion tonight indicates that the Minister cannot face this challenge. Regardless of how much he attempts to excuse his record on this issue, the demands of the student nurses will not go away and he must face up to his responsibility at some time. I urge him to do so sooner rather than later.

I wish to share time with Deputies McGuinness, Fleming, Dennehy, Hanafin and Foley.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

The new nursing registration diploma programme for student nurses which leads to registration with An Bord Altranais and the award of diplomas in nursing from a third level institution represents a significant advance in career registration, education and training. While there have been teething problems, we must not lose sight of the fact that pre-registration education of nurses is firmly established as a higher education programme which leads to an award of a third level qualification as well as registration with An Bord Altranais.

Students undertaking the new diploma programme have the status of third level students for the three year duration of the programme. It is important to bear in mind that while they are not employees and are not paid a salary, they receive a generous package of financial and other supports. This package is in the region of £6,000, its largest component being an annual maintenance grant of £3,000. It is important to note that, unlike other third level grants, the grant is not subject to a means test. That the grant is almost double the level of the maximum grant payable to other third level students and is not means tested is recognition of the greater time commitment students of nursing are required to give to this programme. The provision of free meals, books and uniform allowances and the payment of students' third level fees are also designed to ease the burden on students.

While the nursing registration diploma programme has greatly enhanced the education and training of student nurses, great care was taken in the development of the revised model to preserve the best elements of the traditional model of training. The former apprenticeship model has served the health services well. Nurses trained under that system have justifiably earned a reputation for the quality of care they provide to patients. This is clearly evident from the huge demand for the services of Irish trained nurses in health care services around the world. It is important to emphasise that the changes in pre-registration nursing education will build on the traditional method and strengthen the system.

I commend the Minister for Health and Children for the significant steps he has taken to ease the financial difficulties experienced by young nurses. We should recognise that by increasing the annual maintenance grant by 20 per cent and introducing a new external clinical placement allowance, the Minister has clearly demonstrated his commitment to addressing this problem. This is in sharp contrast to the lack of concern shown by the previous Government. The previous Minister for Health did not provide any increase for students during his term of office. When the grant was introduced in 1994 it was pitched at £2,500 per annum and remained at this level throughout the term of the previous Government. During that period student nurses did not benefit from the modest annual cost of living increases that were applied to third level grants.

This is the record against which the Minister's actions must be judged. Within months of taking up office, he moved decisively to bring about a substantial improvement in the funding arrangements. In a single step, he increased the nursing grants by £500. This 20 per cent increase represents a higher increase than the cumulative increases applied to other third level grants since 1994. It should also be noted that the Minister addressed the financial difficulties students faced while undertaking external clinical placements away from their normal base. I warmly welcome his initiative in introducing an external clinical placement allowance and weekly travel passes. These measures are designed to address issues which have existed since before the Government came into office. It is disappointing that the Opposition is finding it difficult to acknowledge the real and substantial efforts made by the Minister within a short time to ease the burden on student nurses on diploma courses.

The Deputy should put pressure on the Minister.

I am satisfied with the Minister and the fact that he increased student grants by 20 per cent in his first year.

That is why student nurses are in the Gallery.

I have gone through the record and I have not found one instance where the previous Minister supported the nurses' case.

Nobody can doubt the Minister's commitment to enhance and develop the education and training of the nursing profession. This is reflected in the substantial additional funding he secured this year for the pre-registration nursing diploma course and the continuing education and professional development of registered nurses. An additional sum of almost £11 million has been provided for the diploma programme, bringing to £24 million the amount that will be spent on the programme in 1998. The availability of this funding ensures that the completion of the transition from the traditional apprenticeship model of training to the diploma based programme will be achieved in all three pre-registration nursing disciplines this year.

The Government also recognises the importance of continuing education to the professional development of nurses generally. An additional £1.5 million has been provided this year, bringing to almost £7 million the total spending in 1998 on initiatives designed to augment the knowledge and skills of practising nurses and advance professional competence. The scale of this investment in both pre and post-registration nursing education and training is tangible evidence of the Minister's commitment to ensure that the nursing profession is enabled to acquire the skills and competence required to meet the new challenges in an increasingly complex and constantly changing health care system. I support the Minister's amendment.

I support the amendment which acknowledges and endorses the measures being taken by the Government to ease the financial and other burdens on student nurses. The Private Members' motion is nothing short of political gimmickry which is aimed at gaining news headlines rather than being constructive and sincere.

That is disgraceful.

The Deputy's party knows all about that.

That is a terrible remark.

Deputy McGuinness, without interruption.

Fine Gael's record in Government speaks for itself.

That is disgraceful.

The student population, in whose ability and integrity the Fine Gael Party does not seem to have much confidence, will quickly see this nonsense for what it is. Fine Gael did nothing to improve the lot of student nurses or their grant assistance when it held the reins of power from 1995 to June 1997.

I hope the nurses in Kilkenny understand what the Deputy is saying.

Deputy McGuinness, without interruption.

They understand from where I am coming.

They know that all right.

The Government and I, as a member of the Government party, recognise the full extent of the courses undertaken by student nurses and the accompanying pressure and stress associated with such intense study. The steps the Government has taken to increase the grants by 20 per cent, to provide special payments to students on clinical placements who must find new accommodation, to provide transport passes in special circumstances and to deal with issues relating to books and uniforms must be welcomed. These measures will help to improve the overall lot of student nurses.

I welcome the Minister's interest in streamlining the exam structure and his acknowledgement that two sets of examinations, one by third level colleges and the other by An Bord Altranais, is a significant source of pressure and stress for these students. I hope the new exam arrangements will recognise the source of this pressure and stress and that An Bord Altranais will publish a positive report which recommends substantial changes in this area.

I acknowledge the Minister's efforts in providing substantial moneys in this year's Estimates to ensure the development of this course and to support student nurses. We must ensure that funding is made available to student nurses so that they are given every opportunity to study and that their educational needs are continuously upgraded in terms of the technology available to them to allow them to do their job.

I appreciate the work undertaken by the Minister since taking office. He has done his job with enthusiasm and has completed many tasks quietly and efficiently.

I welcome the opportunity to support the Minister and his amendment to this motion. Deputy Wall made an important point when he spoke about the education and training of nurses. He said this debate was about the future of the health services. I criticise the motion because its focus is too narrow.

The Deputy should feel free to do more if he wishes.

We must all recognise the major advances in nurses' training in recent years. Nurses will now be able to take a recognised diploma which is classified as third level education. They can also take an optional degree course in their fourth year which was not available previously. This is a change from the old apprenticeship system where trainee nurses worked in hospitals and were on the payroll. Trainee nurses are now treated like third level students who want to be educated and gain practical experience. In that context, the Government package of £6,000 to support trainee nurses on an annual basis is fair and reasonable under the circumstances. I would like if it was more but the Minister has been generous in increasing maintenance grants by 20 per cent. Although he has been in office for only a year it is an outstanding achievement.

The nursing profession is a caring one and the most important aspect is the nurse patient relationship which we must try to improve. Nursing, like medicine, has changed totally over the years. Technology and science have revolutionised medicine and the operation of hospitals. Education is the key to the future. We must allow students and trainee nurses to carry out their activities as full-time students without working in hospitals.

When was the Deputy last in a hospital?

We all recognise that the operations and procedures carried out in hospitals are so sophisticated and advanced they would have been considered science fiction a generation ago. That is an indication of the improvements in technology, science and education of the nursing profession.

I should say in passing — and everybody in Laoighis will understand what I am talking about — that I had recourse to visit Beaumont Hospital earlier this morning. I was struck by the high levels of technology and equipment. The nurses and the caring profession should be commended and encouraged to pursue diploma and degree courses in the future.

I am disappointed in the motion put forward by Deputy Shatter. If it is about the future of the health service there is no mention of patients. If the health service is not geared towards patients, what is it for?

We need nurses to look after the patients.

He has omitted one key ingredient. He has not mentioned how it will be funded. Health boards must live within their allocation and are legally obliged to do so. The Department of Health and Children must also live within its allocation. The Opposition has not said how, within the overall budget, it would pay for this increase.

There was a budget surplus of £600,000 this year.

The Opposition is being disingenuous and has not said what services it would cut to pay for the increase. What services would it cut, how many permanent nursing places would be cut? What cuts could be expected in patient care?

Allow Deputy Fleming to continue without interruption, please.

What new equipment would not be authorised? How many wards or beds would be closed?

The Deputy is cutting his own throat.

We vote in this House each year for an Estimate for each Department and it is incumbent on the Minister to live within that Estimate, health boards have to do likewise. To bring forward a motion, suggesting additional expenditure within a Department or health board, without specifying where the resources can be found within that Department, is disingenuous. The motion is too narrow and there is no mention of patients and patient care and a proper development of the health service.

It is about nurses.

I cannot accept the motion and I support the Minister's amendment.

Having been involved in argument with the former Minister and Minister of State for approximately two years for the introduction of the course in the Cork and Kerry region and in the Southern Health Board, I put up with the excuses that the finance was not available, that improvements would have to be phased in, that it was a total change, costly and would take some time to introduce.

I came to Dublin as chairman of the Southern Health Board to campaign for that programme. It took us a long time. I was told at all times it depended on the funding available. The Fine Gael and Labour Parties were conscious of the need to fund programmes and to raise funding. I ask those parties to be consistent.

I welcome the changes and in doing so I pay tribute to Dr. Geraldine McCarthy, with whom I served on the Southern Health Board. She was the nurses' representative who later qualified and did a doctorate in America. She is now one of the main architects of the new programme.

At all times Geraldine McCarthy considered that the nursing staff had much more to contribute but were not permitted to do so, that the status gap between doctors and nurses was too great and the area of responsibility was not being extended. The ability of trained nurses was not being tapped and it was considered that changes had to be made. The diploma based programme is the foundation for the change. Those of us who felt there should be a greater role for the nursing profession were told for a number of years that there could be legal difficulties if things went wrong. That matter has now been rectified.

It is a new programme and a new approach and will have to be monitored and evaluated. I appeal to those in Opposition who shouted a few minutes ago to remember they have been out of office for only 12 months and that they had the opportunity for three and half years to put this matter on a firm foundation.

The Deputy's party has been 50 years in office since the foundation of the State.

The programme will have to be monitored and reviewed. As with all other projects, changes will be required. However, I can evaluate on a percentage basis the work done by the Minister, Deputy Cowen. His approach is much more beneficial to the people involved than the previous approach. I am not being too critical of the former Minister, Deputy Noonan, and the former Minister of State, Deputy Currie, on their approach. Aspects of this motion are narrowly based. Given what is happening, particularly with the nursing profession, radical changes will take place.

There is a shortage of nurses because of the emergence of private nursing homes and that apprentices are not allowed on to the hospital floor. These are all aspects of the scheme that have to be examined on a broader footing.

We are moving forward at a time when we are beginning to recognise the real value of the people who have put in the time. I have spoken at many graduation ceremonies for nurses. It is only at these ceremonies that one realises the amount of time that has gone into training these people. I would not like to hear arguments about £20 or £25 per week or whatever, nurses are entitled to much greater recognition than that. A proper system will have to be put in place for the future. One of the difficulties identified in connection with the new fourth year degree programme was that we would not introduce a two-tier nursing system, that those who graduated prior to last year and the year before would not be handicapped because of the new system. We gave a commitment to nursing staff who trained over many years that they would not be handicapped by the changes. Any system that is introduced to allow for continuing training after the three year programme will have to recognise the existing nursing staff.

I am happy with the manner in which the new programme is progressing. I am willing to debate and argue on the broad front at any time but to put it down after 12 months and to tamper with a certain amount of the funding is not good enough. I welcome the opportunity to have the programme reviewed and to have a debate on it. It will have to be discussed on a broader front. The Minister is awaiting a report which I hope will highlight further changes for the benefits that can be achieved. Given the numbers, the nursing staff are more important in the health care area than the doctors who are so restricted. However they need fair treatment. It is no good paying lip service. We will have to do better than put down a narrow motion such as this.

Do better.

Work with us tonight and it will be all right.

Tá an-áthas orm an deis seo a ghlacadh chun labhairt ar an ábhar seo mar creidim go laidir san obair atá ar siúl ag na mbanaltra sa tír seo. Having spent the greater part of the past two years in and out of hospitals with various family members and having experienced the love, care and professionalism of nurses, I am glad of the opportunity to speak on this topic and particularly on the topic of student nurses. They are academics and workers but yet are neither students nor nurses. They are in danger of falling between two stools. In the past a student nurse was on the ward in the second week of her training, having had just one week of academic work and went straight into the basic caring profession, which is the reason people enter nursing. Now that there is change and there is the diploma course, student nurses must face an extraordinarily heavy academic content balanced by heavy clinical and work duties. Their academic year is much longer than that of most other students, yet at the same time they have very onerous duties.

When student nurses go into the hospital in theory they are meant to be extra-numerary. In practice, they are not because there is not enough staffing in the hospitals and they find themselves having to take on the responsibilities and duties of nurses. There are not enough supervisors or mentors for student nurses when they take up their placements and find themselves faced with the serious responsibility of dealing with very sick people.

It is right and proper that student nurses should be looked after financially because of their dual role and I welcome the improvements by the Minister in the past year in relation to fees, books, grants, etc. However, the decrease in the numbers joining the nursing profession is very worrying, as are the numbers of people who, having taken the diploma, do not want to go back into hospitals and dedicate themselves to that type of work. There are a number of reasons for this, one of which is increased responsibility. There is a huge amount of documentation on every patient. Nursing has become a very hi-tech profession which demands an expertise in computers which must be balanced with concern for the patient. Nurses who have been registered for a number of years find that they are getting only two days training in computers each year, yet they are expected to work efficiently. That is a worry for the profession.

The increase in litigation against nurses is a serious worry, not just for themselves but for all of us because it involves extra stress on that profession. Nurses are being sued and reported to the fitness to practise commission. Those nurses need greater support than they are receiving at present. I would suggest that they do not get the same back up as their colleagues in the medical profession, for example.

There is a very slow promotion rate for nurses. They do not receive the proper monetary benefit for courses undertaken and I would like to see all health boards recognise the value of such courses and encourage currently registered nurses to take them.

With the change in practice and the higher academic qualifications of nurses, we need more care assistants in the hospitals. Because of the staff shortage in nursing homes and hospitals, we need people who will do the basic caring work, which perhaps the student nurses did in their first or second weeks, in making the beds, helping to feed patients and in doing the minor care work. However, this role needs to be defined to show that it is different and the health boards need to provide courses for care assistants.

Young people will not shy away from stress or responsibility. They want to go into the caring professions and they want academic qualifications, but they want a role which is defined and properly supported. I recognise the improvements which the Minister has given student nurses over the past year and hope this will continue.

I support the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Cowen, in his efforts to support student nurses. The tradition of pre-registration nursing education and training is in the process of being replaced by a new diplomabased programme. This process will be completed this year in all three pre-registration nursing disciplines. The new programme is operated by schools of nursing in association with third level institutes. Student nurses, who successfully complete registration/diploma, will be awarded a diploma in nursing from the associated third level institute and will be eligible to be registered as a nurse with An Bord Altranais.

Nursing is a dedicated profession and a tremendous vocation, and student nurses should certainly get every facility, both financial and otherwise, to help them through their training. I must congratulate Minister Cowen. Since coming into office, he has increased the grants for student nurses at third level colleges by 20 per cent, bringing their maximum from £2,500 to £3,000. I appeal to the Minister to further increase this figure this year. He has provided special payments to students doing clinical placements who must find new accommodation during those periods. Where students do not move to new accommodation but take up their clinical placements from their normal base, he has provided transport passes to ensure they do not suffer financially. He has moved to ensure that students must not pay for additional books during their course of studies in excess of the book allowance which his Department provides. No uniforms need be purchased outside those covered by the uniform allowance, made available by his Department. Compare this with the record of the previous Minister when no increase whatsoever was given during 1995, 1996 and up to June 1997, when the previous Government left office.

A total of 1,155 training places for student nurses will be available this year as follows: general nursing, 781; psychiatric nursing, 201; and mental handicap nursing, 173. These figures are to be welcomed. Some 60 students are doing an 18 month postgraduate course at Tralee General Hospital, where there is an intake of students twice a year. These students are a major asset to the Tralee hospital's staffing.

The Government is firmly committed to the registration/diploma programme and to providing the necessary resources for its full implementation in all disciplines. An additional £11 million over and above last year's figure has been made available this year for the programme. Some £24 million in total will, therefore, be spent on the programme in 1998. The available funding will meet the roll-over costs of the operation of the programme to date and finance the commencement of the programme.

In April 1996, a comprehensive independent external evaluation of the registration/diploma programme commenced. This is being undertaken by Professor Helen Simons and a team from the School of Education and Nursing at the University of Southampton under the management of the Institute of Public Administration. The evaluation, which includes both general nursing and psychiatric nursing programmes, will inform and facilitate decision-making about any future developments of the programme. This exercise is due to be completed by July 1998.

While the educational requirements for registration as a nurse will be satisfied at the point of the award of the diploma in nursing, the third level institutes, in accordance with the normal procedures applying to such institutes, are developing a one year programme for students who successfully register with An Bord Altranais and gain their diploma in nursing from any of the participating third level institutes. Such degree programmes will be optional and nurses will be responsible for making their own arrangements for admission to, and attendance at, such programmes, including the payment of course fees. I believe the Minister should come forward with some financial reward in this regard. The timing of the degree programme must have regard to the registration process of An Bord Altranais, which means that the programme cannot commence before January each year.

Registered nurses who do not have the diploma in nursing will, through their post-registration experience, be eligible to apply for entry to the degree programme. Registered nurses who do not have prior learning which can be accredited by the third level institute can become eligible for entry to the degree programme by successfully completing a short access programme. It is a requirement of approval of any funding arrangement with a third level institute involved in the delivery of the diploma programme that it offers access programmes to existing registered nurses who do not meet the degree entry requirements.

I wish to share my time with Deputies Owen, Richard Bruton, Crawford, Belton, Deenihan and Sheehan.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I urge the Minister for Health and Children to respond to the genuine concerns of student nurses and their families, and improve the financial assistance for such students. They must be allowed to undertake their training and education without the strain and stress of endeavouring to survive from a financial point of view. I congratulate Deputy Shatter on bringing forward the motion and thank Fine Gael for supporting him in doing so. I support the Deputy's call for the Government to provide a non-means tested grant of £75 per week, free meals for student nurses for the duration of their three year programme — whether completed in their designated base hospital or while undertaking an external clinical placement or academic studies — full payment to meet the expenditure in the new four-tiered agreed programme and full reimbursement of the cost of any secondary temporary accommodation required by student nurses when undertaking external clinical placements away from their base hospitals.

Student nurses are not comparable to third level students. They work 35 hours per week, 48 weeks of the year. The Minister must recognise that student nurses do not have an opportunity to take up part-time employment and, therefore, do not generate any income when completing their training. He must acknowledge the value of the work done by student nurses by taking action to overcome the hardships and difficulties experienced by them.

Nurses are the most professional and competent people in the health service. They are also the most undervalued in terms of pay and working conditions. I know from experience that there are many stresses attached to nursing because my wife, Goretti, is a nurse, my only sister is a ward sister and my mother is a psychiatric nurse. When people leave hospital they invariably praise the nursing staff. Nurses are the first people patients meet on admission to hospital, they often bring the bad news of a death to relatives and they are the buffer between highly paid consultants and patients and their families. Nurses are the human face of hospitals.

In 1995 an independent survey showed that the stress levels experienced by Irish nurses are higher than in any other profession and they are among the highest in the world. One of the reasons for the low pay and status of nurses is that the work is predominantly done by women. Nurses too often must carry out domestic duties. To employ for that work highly trained medical staff in whom such money has been invested is inefficient. There should be a policy of employing additional nurse attendants and deploying nursing staff in the medical areas for which they are trained. The provision of such attendants would alleviate the burden placed on nursing staff and it would be more cost-effective.

In recent years the training and education of student nurses has been modernised. This provides for 4,600 hours of theoretical and clinical instruction and it is a mixture of academic and practical training. The work of student nurses includes elements of academic training and apprenticeship. Apprentices in other professions are paid while completing academic and practical training. As Deputy Shatter stated, apprentice solicitors are paid £125 per week when they commence training. This model should apply to student nurses.

I welcome the fact that a degree in nursing studies is now available. I encourage the Minister to ensure that the maximum number of nurses is given the opportunity to complete this degree. Student nurses continue to supply practical work to the hospital services and are, therefore, not similar in any way to the general body of students.

In recent months student nurses have found it necessary to protest publicly, which is unfortunate. They should not be placed in this position. From 1 March, the Minister increased the annual maintenance grant from £2,500 to £3,000 per annum. Student nurses must maintain their rented accommodation for a full year throughout each of the three years in which they undertake training and studies while other third level students need only do so for a maximum of nine months.

Given the rate of inflation, our tiger economy and the number of job opportunities on offer, it is difficult to retain nurses. The Minister admitted that there is a shortage of nurses. We should encourage students to train as nurses.

I was appalled by the tone and attitude of the Minster's contribution last night and I am saddened that a string of Fianna Fáil speakers have entered the House this evening with scripts which, given the similarities to his own speech, were prepared by and given to them by him. I am also appalled by the lack of understanding of the case being made by student nurses and the Government's belief that it must vote down this motion. Even at this late stage, I hope Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats will reconsider their position and make available the small amount of money required to fulfil the wishes of student nurses.

This year, the Government found plenty of money to introduce a budget to cater for the rich. When was the last time a Member on the Government benches — or any other Member for that matter — was obliged to live on £57 per week? When was the last time they paid £20 — the grant paid to student nurses completing clinical placements in respect of accommodation — to rent a room in this city or anywhere else for one night, let alone for an entire week? Will Members on the Government side inform me where such rooms can be found so that I can forward the information to the students nurses in the Public Gallery? I cannot find such accommodation and I do not believe any student nurse has ever rented a room for £20 per week. When did any Member of the Government find that a free bus pass was adequate to enable them to travel to areas outside our cities? What use is a bus pass to student nurses who are obliged to work unsocial hours? It is no use. Members on the Government side should not attempt to inform us how well off are student nurses.

Like other speakers, I stress the need for student nurses to be treated like other third level students. The Government must remove the need for students to pay fees for their degree course in UCG and it must do so immediately. Where is the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Martin, this evening? With the number of PR people surrounding him, he must surely understand that this inequity must be removed. Why in the age of the Celtic tiger are we discussing temporary secondary accommodation, bus passes and free meals? Imagine having to ask the Minister to recognise that we are being obliged to beg for the provision of free meals to student nurses. That is a disgrace.

Many Members referred to the decrease in the numbers of people entering the nursing profession. It was stated that 1,139 entered training in 1997 as opposed to 1,328 in 1996. Given the options available, it is little wonder that students are not choosing the difficult and demanding work required in nursing. Many of them want to take up a career in nursing but are unable to do so because their families cannot afford to pay for their keep while they are undergoing training. As Deputy Neville stated, people who spent time in hospital invariably state that they received excellent nursing care and could not have come through their stay without the care and attention provided by nurses. Nurses are there when sick people feel the need for care and companionship at 4 a.m.

I cannot understand how the Government has the gall to oppose this motion. In the remaining 40 minutes of the debate, I hope Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats will agree to make a small adjustment to the budget which would allow fees to be waived and provide the additional benefits and grants required by student nurses.

The Minister stated last night that these are exciting times for nurses and students. The only excitement they have felt in recent years came when the Rainbow Coalition increased their wages and established the Commission on Nursing, which is due to report in the near future. The current Government has done nothing to make the lives of nurses and students exciting. Even at this late stage, I hope it will amend its ways.

I commend Deputy Shatter for moving this motion. I have received an increasing number of complaints, not only from nurses but also from patients, about the impact on the morale and availability of nurses of the approach taken by the Government. The decline in recruitment to nursing is having an impact. I have been told that the cancellation of 10,0000 elective surgery appointments in the Eastern Health Board area has arisen because of problems in the nursing area, including the lack of availability of sufficient nurses to man the wards to the levels expected.

There are serious problems in the area of nursing. In the four hospitals on the north side of Dublin there is a waiting list of 7,500 people. A quarter of all those waiting for hospital surgery throughout the country are attached to these hospitals. If we are to deliver quality care we must look at the manning of our health services and the development of high morale and quality conditions for nurses. It is becoming increasingly clear that unless we address seriously the issue of recruitment to nursing we will undermine what, for many decades, has been an extraordinarily high quality service.

For far too long we have relied on the notion that nursing is a vocation where people can be expected to work for less than the going rate elsewhere. While nursing is a vocation, we cannot tread on the goodwill of people in that way. We must be willing to pay people properly for undertaking student training and entering a profession that imposes many hardships and challenges and exposes people to the risk of litigation. These people are in the front line in providing a crucial service.

The change from the apprenticeship system was necessary because nursing has become far more complicated in recent years. The demands on nursing are increasing all the time and nurses make crucial decisions. It is increasingly clear they can develop even more competence and a greater capacity to deliver quality care in our hospitals if they are properly trained.

While the move from the apprenticeship system to more theoretical training was welcome, regrettably student nurses seriously lost out. The transfer was made in the interests of the public good, yet student nurses have been made to carry the can. We must recognise that student nursing is not simply a parallel to other student occupations. Student nurses cannot forget about their studies when lectures are over because they are obliged to provide a quality service in the hospitals. They are expected to work a 35 hour week, yet the supplement to support them is less than £58 per week. This is unacceptable. If a person on a community employment scheme was asked to work just 20 hours per week he or she would be provided with an income of over £90 per week. By contrast, we expect student nurses to survive on less than two thirds of that. Similarly, if instead of taking up a vocation in nursing a person went on the live register and decided to go into education after six months he or she would receive not only student grants but also a continuation of social welfare payments.

There must be equity in our approach to those whom we put in the front line of providing care for people when they are at their most vulnerable. There is, rightly, much indignation on this side of the House, which is reflected in the indignation of many student nurses about the treatment they have received in recent years. For example, it is unacceptable that if nurses want a degree recognition, which they all should seek, they should have to pay fees that are not paid by other students in the system.

I congratulate Deputy Shatter for moving this motion. There is an opportunity for the Independent Deputies, Sinn Féin and the other parties to support this motion to ensure that nurses, especially student nurses, get a fair crack of the whip. The Government will not fall if the Independent Deputies vote in support of the motion. However, they will send the Government a warning that they must be listened to.

Deputy Richard Bruton mentioned that, because of the lack of nurses, there has been cancellations in surgery operations in the four major hospitals north of Dublin. These hospitals undertake major surgery for the North-Eastern Health Board, so people in this region suffer likewise.

Nurses play a very important role in the delivery of health care services and the care of patients. This was made clear by the Government when in Opposition. Their spokesperson stated that the nursing organisation should get what it wanted, although there was no word about from where the money would come.

From what source did the Deputy get that information?

It is important that student nurses, from whatever economic background, should be supported. They have played a crucial role since the foundation of the State in the running of the hospitals. It is unacceptable to suggest that, in the time of the Celtic tiger and great economic growth, they should be expected to work 35 hours per week, 48 weeks per year and receive only £57 per week. In areas like Counties Cavan and Monaghan this money would not even rent a room, never mind provide food and a livelihood. They need strong financial backing from their families, which means that, once again, many student nurses in my constituency must go to the North or across the Irish Sea.

Should student nurses be provided with a basic social welfare payment of £68 per week and a flat allowance from the health board of £54 when those on social welfare can get so much? Will the Minister assure the House he will take steps to improve the programme for student nurses and resolve their difficulties? He says he is awaiting the deliberations of the Commission on Nursing and its evaluation team. However, he knows the facts and he should make changes now. Other students can take up part-time work, especially summer work.

I have a personal interest in student nurses as my 92 year old mother was a student nurse in the late 1920s. Student nurses then received very little pay but at least they were housed and fed. There is a shortage of nurses and steps must be taken now to rectify that. The biggest problem in hospitals today is the lack of nurses.

I compliment Deputy Shatter on moving this motion. I am annoyed the Government should attack my party for introducing the motion. At present student nurses receive £1.50 per hour. We seek an increase of 50p in this hourly rate, yet Members on the Fianna Fáil benches say that nurses do not deserve such an increase. What a disgrace.

The Minister for Health in the previous Government built hospitals in Mullingar, Galway, Limerick and elsewhere and increased nurses' wages, which Fianna Fáil had neglected for years when in Government. We are asking Government Deputies to support a motion that provides an increase of 50p per hour in the grant for student nurses. If they do not support this motion, they will be a disgrace.

Our health service is in serious decline and is proving to be inadequate in coping with the demands of the sick. Four weeks ago I outlined the problems in the Southern Health Board region, where staffing levels are inadequate. I was informed today that a seriously ill patient awaiting a bypass operation in Tralee General Hospital could not be admitted to Cork University Hospital. On contacting that hospital I was informed he was one of 12 patients that should be admitted immediately and that six patients were on trolleys in the cardiac unit. I was also informed that morale was never lower and that the staff were working under considerable stress and strain because of the level of under-staffing and the fact that they cannot cope with the problems they face.

If student nurses are not adequately remunerated, the high spirits and high morale associated with those unsung heroes will wane. Access to nursing will be limited to those who can afford it. Students from poorer sections of the community will not be able to join that profession because their parents will not be able to support them. Student nurses cannot be compared to those undertaking other third level courses. It is ludicrous to state that the change in pre-registration nursing education and training means the concept of a student nurse as a salaried employee no longer prevails. The nature of their work, the length of the academic year and the cost of clothing and accommodation are important considerations when making a case for preferential treatment for student nurses.

Approximately 900 students are undertaking the nursing diploma programme this year. Over the past few months student nurses were involved in a public protest. They are rightly critical of the inadequate provision made for them by the State while undertaking their diploma course. The reality is many of them have to rely on handouts, parental financial assistance and are forced to obtain temporary work during unsocial hours and at weekends. Having regard to their work commitment in their practical placements, it is highly undesirable that they should be placed in this position. Given the context of the manner in which the diploma course is currently run, it has not been officially recognised that nursing students cannot be compared to other third level students. It is not only in their interest but in the public interest that they should be treated differently. I add my support to this motion.

It is a pleasure for me to be associated with this motion calling for an increase in grant for student nurses. The nursing profession is one of the most dedicated and caring in the world. Student nurses are vital to the continuation of that laudable profession. They deserve better treatment than they are getting. In this age of the Celtic tiger surely it is not beyond the bounds of possibility they could be given a decent non-means tested grant of at least £75 per week, free meals during their three year training programme whether in a designated base hospital or while undertaking an external clinical placement or academic studies, full payment to meet the expenditure incurred in the new fourth year degree programme and full reimbursement of the cost of any second temporary accommodation required when they are undertaking external clinical placement.

It is time common sense prevailed. The increase in the grant advocated in this motion is only a drop in the ocean compared to overall Government spending. Having listened to Government speakers it was evident they have lost track of the major input made by student nurses to their profession. I cannot see how any Government Deputy can go through the lobby and vote down this motion which provides for a modest increase in the grant for student nurses. Do Government Deputies realise that if they vote down this motion, they will be cutting a twig with which to beat themselves. They or I may be in hospital at some time in the future when they will have to rely on student nurses to bring them back to full health and vigour.

In this era of the Celtic tiger surely the Government will not have it on its conscience to oppose an increase in the grant for student nurses. I call on the Independent Deputies who support the Government to let common sense prevail. They would not bring down the Government by voting for this Fine Gael motion that is supported by all Opposition parties, but would give it a jerk that would bring it back to reality and would show it has a caring approach.

It needs an injection.

An injection of compassion.

Perhaps Government Deputies need an injection of some description that would awaken them from their slumber.

We know where they will get it.

They seem to be asleep as far as this motion is concerned. The time is ripe for Government Deputies not to be "yes" men or "yes" women. When they walk up the steps of the Chamber tonight, and they should thank God they have the health and strength to do so, they should let their consciences prevail and make the right decision by not opposing this prudent demand by the nursing profession.

It is a pity the Deputy did not think about that before the last general election.

We have looked after the nursing profession down through the years, but the Government which is boasting about the Celtic tiger and our booming economy will be penny pinching if it stops student nurses from getting a favourable grant that would be of some help to them in getting their qualification.

Of all the professions in the world the nursing profession requires the most dedication and there is a shortage of students entering it. It is not attractive because students can get better paid jobs in other sectors.

The ball is back in the Government's court. This prudent increase is less than £20 per week and if the Government opposes this motion, I would question if it has any conscience? I make a last minute appeal to the Fianna Fáil Deputies and the Progressive Democrats——

They are not here.

I suppose the Tánaiste, Deputy Harney, is telling the Fianna Fáil Deputies to vote against this motion.

——to row in with the Opposition which is signalling the danger we will face if we allow this matter to drift without attention. The Minister of State and the Government Deputies should not be misled and should reconsider this matter. They have 20 minutes to make up their minds and they should not be responsible for opposing this prudent increase we are seeking on behalf of the very worthy nursing profession.

I compliment Deputy Sheehan on the wholehearted case he has made for student nurses.

Has he won over the Minister of State?

We are all agreed on the desire to try to provide as much money as possible for student nurses. However, I ask Deputies Shatter and Owen and their colleagues in Fine Gael to explain why their new found concern did not strike them when in Government.

Rome was not built in a day.

Why did this concern, so eloquently expressed by Deputy Sheehan, not come to the fore from 1995 to 1997 when the Minister for Health was a Fine Gael Deputy? They did not consider it worthwhile to give student nurses the cost of living increases awarded to other students.

We did not have time.

We were building hospitals and paying nurses.

Will Deputy Shatter explain why Fine Gael has had such a change of heart now that it is not concerned with funding increases?

I am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to the debate. I agree with speakers that we owe a great debt of gratitude to the nursing profession. Nurses have a long and honourable history of dedication and commitment. It is the largest group of professionals in the health service, representing about 41 per cent of the staff employed. Nurses have a pivotal role in the delivery of health services.

My mother is in hospital at present and has been in and out of hospital many times over the past few months. I have been amazed by the dedication of the nurses which I have experienced at first-hand.

The Minister of State should not be amazed. He should vote for the motion.

The student nurses are supernumerary to the staff working on wards. This is a significant change which is a result of the new programme in place.

Tell that to student nurses.

Will the Minister of State give way for a brief question?

It should be very brief.

Is the Minister of State saying that student nurses do not work? That is what the Minister said last night. What does the Minister of State think that student nurses do?

He said no such thing.

Of course they work.

The Minister said that they do not work.

He did not. They are present in addition to the existing qualified staff on wards.

A sum of £24 million is the total spending on the nurse training programme in 1998. For the continuing education of registered nurses the Government has provided an additional £1.5 million in the current year. That represents a 20 per cent increase over last year.

Fine Gael is aware of the restrictions on Government expenditure. The cost of funding the motion would be £10 million.

There is over £500 million extra in the tax take this year.

That £10 million must be seen in the context of the £25 million already provided for the scheme this year. The scheme will reach its optimum number next year with 3,000 student nurses in training. This will add a further £5 million to the cost for next year giving a total of £30 million. What parts of the health services would

Fine Gael cut to fund the £10 million this motion requires? The electorate will no longer be bought with empty promises such as this.

I wish to share my time with Deputies Ring and Shatter.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

I support this worthy motion. The Minister of State should do the decent thing and accept the motion in the spirit in which it is proposed. Nursing is a caring profession. At one time or other, all will have experienced the benefit of the care of nursing staff in hospitals. We will have seen that it is not a "nine to five" job, nurses stay at their task as long as the sick are in need.

To meet the demand for nursing staff we must have student nurses. It is almost impossible for young people to train as nurses given the present level of remuneration. We do not seek rewards over and above that which is needed to ensure an adequate supply of nurses. Many senior medical professionals will admit that they have not got the back up staff needed to meet the demands placed on them.

Through their constituency work Deputies will know people who are in need of surgery. I became aware today of the case of a constituent of mine who has been waiting nine months in severe pain for a prostate gland operation. He was told today that he must wait a further three months. This arises because hospitals cannot meet the demands placed on them as they do not have the back-up nursing staff.

I have great sympathy for student nurses who, immediately on starting their training, are thrown in at the deep end, so to speak. If the Minister is not aware that they work then he is out of touch. I have no objection to their working because it is part of their training. They must also attend lectures and sit exams. However, the students do not have time on their hands because there are not enough full-time nurses and this is because we are not training enough nurses. There was a time when Irish nurses were in great demand internationally and we could supply that demand. However, we now seek nurses from abroad to supply the demand here.

The leaving certificate standard which is expected of student nurses entering training colleges should be re-examined. Nursing is a vocation and nurses are born, not made. The standards set do not allow many young people who would make excellent and caring nurses to enter the profession.

The Minister of State should ask the Minister for Education and Science to take to task the people who are setting the leaving and junior certificate examinations this year. What sort of zombies are they? They have put young people through outrageous terror this month with questions which are irrelevant to the needs of society. It is an aside but it is important and if the current trend continues we will not be able to fill places in professions across the board. I will not lower myself to appeal to the Independent Members. Let them be judged on the decisions they take when they go through the lobbies tonight.

I compliment Deputy Shatter for tabling this motion. The Minister of State spoke about money. He is a disgrace. The Government took in £115 million extra in December, more revenue than expected in January and saved £100 million in social welfare attacking the poor people throughout the country. There is no excuse; the money is there. Since the Government took up office, it opened hospital after hospital for which Deputy Noonan put money in place. For ten years prior to that Fianna Fáil was in Government and it did nothing about health and nurses. We had to deal with that problem in Government and pay them a proper wage and now we must deal with student nurses who must be paid a proper wage.

People in the west of Ireland want to be trained. According to the points system they could be doctors or consultants, but they want to be nurses. Deputy Boylan is right. Constituents also come to my office and all they want is to become nurses. The Minister of State and the Government should be able to provide a few pounds to assist them to be trained. The Minister yesterday acknowledged there was a shortage of nurses. However, the Government will do what it did to the teachers. Many teachers were trained a few years ago and there was not enough jobs for them; now there is not enough teachers. Will we do the same with nurses? The money can and should be found if people are to be trained. If they are to be treated properly by the State £75 per week is not too much to ask while £10 million is a small token. We did the hard work in regard to hospitals and nurses. We are asking the Government not to find £300 million or £400 million, but £10 million. That is not too difficult. I call on Deputies Healy-Rae and Fox to support us tonight. We will give the Government the injection it needs.

I received a telephone call earlier from a man in the county hospital in Castlebar crying with the pain in his hands. He had to wait to be called to the Minister of State's hospital in Galway. Since the Government took up office the system has collapsed again. The Government paid the penalty before when a famous Taoiseach did not realise things were so bad. Things are bad and the people are waiting. These young nurses are entitled to a few pounds. Do not mind the officials. They will find the money if the Minister of State directs them.

The Deputy brought all the money to Mayo.

There is a simple basic message; what student nurses rightly seek and demand is extraordinarily modest. They want a grant of £75 per week instead of the current £57 per week. No Member would live on £75 per week and they know they could not. The amount student nurses currently get is less than they would get if they were in receipt of unemployment assistance. Unemployment assistance is £68 per week. Student nurses are told we value what they do to a lesser degree than we value the position of someone who is not working.

What about their work and the strange word "supernumerary"? The Minister for Health and Children stated that "when these students do their clinical placements, they are not expected to work as part of the general staffing of a ward". I challenge the Minster of State to ask any of the student nurses in the public gallery what would happen to them on their diploma courses; what report would they get and what would the possibility of them qualifying be if they said to the staff nurse on the ward to which they had been appointed for their placements: "I am sorry; I cannot do this; I am not supposed to be working; I am supernumerary; I came here to watch". Could anyone credibly think that is the role played by student nurses?

Deputy Hanafin got it right, unlike a number of her colleagues who came to the House in a medicated trance delivering scripts handed out to them by the Minister for Health and Children, the central part of which was to tell him what a fine chap he was. She said they are students and workers. They are crucial and essential workers within our health system and their work is not valued or recognised. The Government expects these students to live in extraordinary hardship and difficulty and it is forcing students who work a 35 hour week while undertaking their studies and making a practical and beneficial commitment to the community to go out and work again at the weekends and in the late hours of the evening to scrape together an extra few pounds. Rather than the roar of the Celtic tiger we heard a self-satisfied complacent purring of the Fianna Fáil pussycats. We did not hear from any member of the Progressive Democrats Party; they have gone missing.

They are in hiding.

Fianna Fáil Members came into the House and expressed sympathy with and praised nurses. They know nurses are vital and is that not great? Plamás them and perhaps they will disappear.

Student nurses should not have been put in a position where they had to engage in protests and walk on the Department of Health and Children. They should have been recognised as having specific needs that need to be addressed.

On a point of information, why is Deputy Noonan not responsible?

There is no such thing as a point of information.

The Minister of State is in Government.

The Minister of State should take his medicine. We are asking the Minister of State to deal with students nurses in a decent manner. I am not interested in scoring political points. However, I am interested in seeking to ensure student nurses have certain basic entitlements that he is denying them.

Why did Fine Gael deny them?

There was a minor playing around with the grants system last March, short-sighted short-term changes that not only fall totally short of what is required but some of what the Minister said he would implement on 1 March is not happening in practice. Neither the senior nor junior Minister is aware of this.

Over three years, Fine Gael did nothing. The Deputy is not fooling anyone.

I spoke to a number of students nurses who said the measly sum of £20 that is supposed to be made available to them if they have to get alternative accommodation is not being paid in a number of areas. Neither the health boards nor the hospital authorities know how to administer it. For many student nurses it is illusory as are the bus passes for the minimal use they have, which are not furnished or made available.

Student nurses are getting a raw deal. In the context of the Department of Health and Children, that they are part of the health workforce is not recognised. In the context of the Department of Education and Science they are invisible. In the context of the four year degree course in NUI, Galway, which will be available in other universities next year to student nurses coming through the diploma system, the Department of Education and Science decided they would be the only undergraduates for whom fees will not be exempted. What political caveman vision is involved in telling student nurses they will be actively discouraged from obtaining a degree after they have completed their diploma course or that we will not provide them with financial assistance and, unlike other undergraduates, will be required to pay fees even though the nursing degree has undergraduate status, that we will penalise them for undertaking the course by requiring them to pay fees and will not exempt them when thousands of students are exempt from third level undergraduate fees?

There is a public interest in the best possible training being available to student nurses and in ensuring they can be involved in an educational system which facilitates them in providing care within hospitals and other care agencies which they want to provide upon qualification. I invite the Government to accept the motion and call on the Minister not to divide the House. I thank the parties on this side of the House who support the motion and will vote with us.

Amendment put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 70, Níl 60.

  • Ahern, Dermot.
  • Jacob, Joe.
  • Ahern, Michael.
  • Keaveney, Cecilia.
  • Ahern, Noel.
  • Kelleher, Billy.
  • Andrews, David.
  • Kenneally, Brendan.
  • Ardagh, Seán.
  • Killeen, Tony.
  • Aylward, Liam.
  • Kirk, Séamus.
  • Brady, Johnny.
  • Kitt, Michael.
  • Brady, Martin.
  • Kitt, Tom.
  • Brennan, Matt.
  • Lawlor, Liam.
  • Brennan, Séamus.
  • Lenihan, Brian.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Lenihan, Conor.
  • Browne, John (Wexford).
  • Martin, Micheál.
  • Byrne, Hugh.
  • McCreevy, Charlie.
  • Callely, Ivor.
  • McDaid, James.
  • Carey, Pat.
  • McGennis, Marian.
  • Collins, Michael.
  • McGuinness, John.
  • Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.
  • Moffatt, Thomas.
  • Coughlan, Mary.
  • Moloney, John.
  • Cowen, Brian.
  • Moynihan, Donal.
  • Cullen, Martin.
  • Moynihan, Michael.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • Ó Cuív, Éamon.
  • Davern, Noel.
  • O'Dea, Willie.
  • de Valera, Síle.
  • O'Flynn, Noel.
  • Dennehy, John.
  • O'Hanlon, Rory.
  • Doherty, Seán.
  • O'Keeffe, Batt.
  • Ellis, John.
  • O'Keeffe, Ned.
  • Fahey, Frank.
  • O'Kennedy, Michael.
  • Fleming, Seán.
  • O'Malley, Desmond.
  • Flood, Chris.
  • Power, Seán.
  • Foley, Denis.
  • Roche, Dick.
  • Fox, Mildred.
  • Ryan, Eoin.
  • Hanafin, Mary.
  • Smith, Brendan.
  • Harney, Mary.
  • Smith, Michael.
  • Haughey, Seán.
  • Wallace, Dan.
  • Healy-Rae, Jackie.
  • Wright, G. V.

Níl

  • Allen, Bernard.
  • Howlin, Brendan.
  • Barrett, Seán.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • Bell, Michael.
  • McCormack, Pádraic.
  • Belton, Louis.
  • McDowell, Derek.
  • Boylan, Andrew.
  • McGahon, Brendan.
  • Bradford, Paul.
  • McGinley, Dinny.
  • Broughan, Thomas.
  • McGrath, Paul.
  • Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
  • Mitchell, Jim.
  • Bruton, Richard.
  • Mitchell, Olivia.
  • Burke, Liam.
  • Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.
  • Carey, Donal.
  • Naughten, Denis.
  • Clune, Deirdre.
  • Neville, Dan.
  • Connaughton, Paul.
  • Noonan, Michael.
  • Cosgrave, Michael.
  • O'Keeffe, Jim.
  • Crawford, Seymour.
  • O'Shea, Brian.
  • Creed, Michael.
  • O'Sullivan, Jan.
  • Currie, Austin.
  • Penrose, William.
  • D'Arcy, Michael.
  • Perry, John.
  • De Rossa, Proinsias.
  • Rabbitte, Pat.
  • Deenihan, Jimmy.
  • Reynolds, Gerard.
  • Durkan, Bernard.
  • Ring, Michael.
  • Enright, Thomas.
  • Ryan, Seán.
  • Farrelly, John.
  • Sargent, Trevor.
  • Ferris, Michael.
  • Shatter, Alan.
  • Finucane, Michael.
  • Sheehan, Patrick.
  • Fitzgerald, Frances.
  • Shortall, Róisín.
  • Flanagan, Charles.
  • Stagg, Emmet.
  • Gregory, Tony.
  • Timmins, Billy.
  • Higgins, Jim.
  • Upton, Pat.
  • Higgins, Michael.
  • Wall, Jack.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Barrett and Stagg.
Amendment declared carried.
Motion, as amended, put and declared carried.
Barr
Roinn